Or you could look up footage on Youtube and save us both the trouble of proving you wrong.
If I was actually being serious I could just play vanilla MvC3 because I own that. But then I wouldn't get a free game.
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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
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If I was actually being serious I could just play vanilla MvC3 because I own that. But then I wouldn't get a free game.
Professor Beef
Banned
What kind of cheapskate holds out on playing a game because they want someone else to get it for them?
Don't answer that.
Who's your favorite character from Fire Emblem 7?
Professor Beef
Banned
The one with the armor.
Marth or Roy?
Professor Beef
Banned
Roy I guess. When he did that thing, that was awesome.
Professor Beef
Banned
Oh well, Fire Emblem is stupid anyways.
Professor Beef
Banned
What? I'm never gonna play it.
the androgyne
Member
Don't really read this thread but had to say, Mallo from Pushmo/Pullblox has to be in, best new Nintendo character in years!
Professor Beef
Banned
Togglesworlh
Banned
Unfortunately, a true one.Good one.
For casual play Roy is loads of fun, but Marth def. has the edge with faster moves, longer range and farther sweetspots.
psh, a random hammer would totally destroy marth.
Tippers, man
Togglesworlh
Banned
It's not funny when you keep doing it.
NeonZ
Member
I'm not sure about that. Wolf is basically a completely unique character, Final Smash aside, but Sakurai still tried to make his moveset reference Fox's, rather than actually pulling stuff from the ground gameplay in Star Fox Assault.
If Wolf had a different "theme"(using something else for his projectile rather than a pistol and swapping the position of his special moves, even if functionality wise it was the same) and Final Smash, I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't think about calling a clone. I mean, you might as well say that Mario and Fox are clones too (Both have reflectors, projectiles and a rushdown third jump attack).
Really, after Wolf, I'm pretty sure at this point that if they include Crystal, she'd go on to have a similar "B" moveset too - B for staff projectiles, Down B for a shield or reflector of some kind, Forward B for some kind of rushdown attack with the staff and Up B for a third jump attack with the staff. They'd all have entirely different animations and work pretty differently from Fox's in the end, but people would still complain.
On the other hand, this is true too. Unless they don't insert a bunch of Melee-type clones, I don't think they'll include Magnus in the game.
But, meh, I'd still prefer a bunch of Melee type clones to what Brawl attempted to do. Most mainstream players don't seem to notice that Wolf is almost completely different from Fox, after all, just due to the special attacks resembling Fox's pretty vaguely. Effectively, the resources were wasted, considering how the only people who care for him, tournament/hardcore players, also generally dislike the game - and Sakurai has even said that it wasn't focused on them anyway. They might as well just have given him cloned animations with changed stats and then given us 5 extra clones to boost the line up. Maybe Isaac would have gotten in as a faster Ike clone.
Maybe they could just give a "variation" to each character in the game, which swaps place in the character screen with them, rather than taking up their own spot. It'd increase the representativeness of the game and most of the people who whine about clones taking "character spots" wouldn't complain because they wouldn't have their own (visible) spots.
I was going through some of my old discs and hard drives and I came across something that I've been trying to find for years: beta Smash Bros. roster information that I typed up waaaay back in 2002.
These notes come from the official Japanese N64 Smash Bros. site and a bunch of old Famitsu magazines from early 2002 (I want to say somewhere between January and April). I'd greatly appreciate any help in relocating some of these articles, because it appears that they've been lost in time. I'm hopeful that there's additional information out there in issues that I haven't had the chance to read.
In the original Super Smash Bros., Sakurai wanted to include some hidden villains: Bowser, Dedede, Wolf (Star Fox 64 was brand new during the planning period), and Mewtwo. However, time and budget constraints meant that Sakurai had to ditch these characters.
Fast forward to Melee: Bowser, Dedede, and Mewtwo were planned for inclusion, but later on Sakurai decided to cut Dedede in favor of adding six clones in his place. (Fans were asking for more characters, so Sakurai figured it would be better to add six clones than to add one original character.) Wolf was going to be one of these clones, but ultimately Falco made the cut because he received more fan requests and because he stood out more from Fox visually. So Dedede and Wolf were both planned for the first Smash Bros. AND Melee, but they made the final cut for neither. You could say that Dedede and Wolf were eight years in the making.
Just for fun, here's a quick mock-up of what the N64 Smash Bros. select screen probably looked like in terms of placement:
I'm amazed at how conveniently the villains line up below their respective universes. I didn't even have to change the order of any of the default characters!
What does this mean for SSB4? Some of the "Forbidden Seven" might be more likely than we think, given Sakurai's evident propensity for carrying over planned characters into future games.
This is an amazing find if true. I have long suspected and said that King Dedede would have been Melee's 20th character if Sakurai went with the one original character instead of six clones.
The real shocker is that Wolf was originally planned for Smash 64 and Melee. I would be VERY interested to see scans of those interviews you are talking about. If this is the case, then it does show how much Sakurai likes returning to unfinished character ideas.
I think this bodes very well for Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong in Smash 4. All three of those characters were planned for Brawl, and also have a lot of requests to be in Smash 4.
Wolf is literally only five moves away from being a completely unique character. Outside of the four special moves and Final Smash, ALL of Wolf's moves are different from Fox. Sakurai did a really good job distinguishing Wolf from Fox and Falco.
Looking at most of these second-party series, most of them seem to be far less popular than the series that already have playable characters in Smash Bros. (outside of the retro characters). Besides, the only second-party series that seems to get a notable amount of requests is Golden Sun, and the third game to that series performed dismally.
I think Little Mac, Mii, Miyamoto/EAD's new IP character, and a retro newcomer are going to be our new series newcomers for Smash 4. I think Mega Man will get in too, so that will be five new series with newcomers.
That is my opinion too. Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong would all be fantastic. Dr. Mario as a costume would be good for the people who enjoyed using him in Melee.
I am going to post a new roster soon. There is going to be quite a bit of changed from the last one I posted.
Green Mamba
Member
As someone who actually mained Dr. Mario in Melee, I would argue the exact opposite. It'd be insulting.
"Here's a character that only looks like the one you used to use."
I would totally appreciate it if alt costumes would alter values of the character so they played like what one might already be used to. It'd free up the spaces for more newcomers and still be taken as a great gesture for those with strong character loyalty to a certain incarnation. It's one of the ideas I subscribe to whenever I say Link & Toon Link should be balanced as one character.
Green Mamba
Member
That's no different than just making a clone. The only thing you're saving is room on the character select screen, which is a completely pointless endeavor.
And Link and Toon Link can't be the same character. Their proportions are completely different. It'd be like trying to make Ness and Captain Falcon into one character--it wouldn't work.
The funny thing about many of the people who want Dr. Mario back as a costume, many of them want the costume to have stat tweaks. I have seen this sentiment even on Japanese forums.
Basically, people want to see Dr. Mario return, but they don't want him having his own character portrait on the character selection screen.
Though for most casuals, many seem to think the only difference between Dr. Mario and regular Mario, was the former throwing pills. I think when people ask for Doc to come back as a costume, they are only imagining him throwing pills and his cape being changed to a white color. Keep in mind, even among the more informed people in the Smash Bros. fanbase (just look at this thread), there are people who think/talk like Wolf and Lucas are in the same league as Melee-styled clones.
It is amusing to think though that Sakurai was considering Dr. Mario as the fifth character for Mario over the likes of Toad or Bowser Jr. (fyi, I personally think Toad should be playable in Smash 4).
I feel like Wolf was a wasted character spot (because it could have gone to Krystal or to make someone without a similar moveset) but I won't argue that he's the same as Fox or Falco. He's not.
Still, though, I'm bitter about no staff-based combat with Krystal
I think Dr. Mario's planned return for Brawl had more to do with Sakurai not wanting to upset any of the Melee fans. Only Young Link and Pichu missed out, and even then, those two were replaced with the more contemporary Toon Link and Plusle & Minun. There isn't a modern replacement for Dr. Mario, so he stayed.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I'm planning to make one soon because I have bad feeling that I will be very busy next 6 weeks. Yeah, I will make new thread because it would be easier for me to keep track of the roster lists but I need to typing up the rules first and get some kind of feedbacks from yall here.
Green Mamba
Member
I think it's a fair assessment that the average Smash fan seems to be very superficial when it comes to the characters of a series they claim to love so much. No other game community that I can think of is catering to the lowest common denominator considered the most desirable thing to do.
I feel like Wolf was a wasted character spot (because it could have gone to Krystal or to make someone without a similar moveset) but I won't argue that he's the same as Fox or Falco. He's not.
Still, though, I'm bitter about no staff-based combat with Krystal
The consensus is that Krystal is a POS character anyway. Star Fox is complete now in terms of playable characters, especially considering how the most recent game in the Star Fox series is a remake of 64.
Besides we now have Palutena as the staff character, and Uprising was a much better Star Fox game than any of the games Krystal ever appeared in.
MisterLuffy
Member
I don't know if you guys would agree with me, but would it be nice to have paper mario in the game even though mario is in it?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Not really. I don't want too much third party characters taking away the spots for Nintendo characters because I want to see some nintendo characters to get in.
I'm cool with him. He will have new moveset easily. Paper Airplane, Hammer, etc. Also I am hoping that he would represent paper mario series instead of mario.
That is my belief too.
I think you should hold off until you get all the rules in play. I think most people who will post in your topic will simply post wish-lists as opposed to concrete character predictions.
No, as a matter of fact, you are in the overwhelming majority. The only third-party newcomer with a lot of support is Mega Man. Besides that, there are no other third-party characters that have a notable amount of support. Sonic, Snake, and Mega Man is all that is needed for third-party characters in Smash 4 anyway.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Not entirely. I don't want a deluge, but Sonic and Snake can't be the only ones again... and I don't think they should be the only representatives of their franchises here.
Something like:
-Sonic/Robotnik
-Snake/Ocelot
-Mega Man/Zero
would be good enough for me.
Green Mamba
Member
I would argue Tails should get in before Robotnik--he's Sonic's Luigi. And I don't see Ocelot happening, considering Sakurai's apparent ban on using real world bullet shooting guns for the game, which would seriously hamper any moveset potential for Ocelot. Maybe Raiden instead.
I got nothing on Mega Man mostly because I just dislike the series. But that's just me.
Glad I'm not the only one haha. I agree the only other third party I'd like to see is Mega Man or someone from Castlevania.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Really, I just put Ocelot down because Raiden seems less likely, given he's never appeared on Nintendo. We'll see if Rising makes it to Wii U, I guess.
And you can hate Mega Man as much as you like but to NES/SNES kids he was Nintendo royalty- he deserves a place more than any third-party character. As for Tails... he's not much of a fighter nowadays. Heck, I'd have Knuckles in before Tails. Robotnik would mean another heavy character, anywho, probably one with projectiles for a change.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
That's why I'm going to post rules in this thread before I make new thread to readjusting the rules and seeking for your opinions.
I might have to emphasized that, so I am thinking about put not wishlist in thread title, but at same time, it seem silly to include that on the thread title.
I think he's going to stick around. I don't see why not, if Kojima is still down with it.
Hot Coldman
Banned
There is no Nintendo character that could have Snake's moveset.
Except for Waluigi, muwaha
Besides, MGS3 came out on 3DS since then.
Green Mamba
Member
That's a good point on Raiden, didn't think of that. And I really didn't mean anything by my MegaMan comment--I can see him happening for sure, I just don't like the series (and I am among those NES/SNES kids; the series really just isn't my thing).
For Tails I still point to his history in the series, which I believe trumps any way he is currently treated in the series--he's still Sonic's number two and the next most recurring character after Sonic and Robotnik. Robotnik I just don't see as a playable character mostly because all of his actually memorable combat options are done with him at the helm of a flying or ridiculously huge robot, not exactly easily transferable into Smash.
:|
Bring in some Advance Wars/Battalion Wars representation. I dunno. For a series based around Nintendo All-Stars and a celebration of its history, Snake really doesn't belong there.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Oh OK, I get your Mega Man comment. (Honestly? Not a huge fan of the series myself. Those games are just unfair too often.)
I can only see Tails being a Sonic clone with flight and less speed. Which would be OK, but I feel like there's not a lot of appeal there- at least with Luigi, they made him a bit of a wildcard, but that's not really an option for Tails. At least with Knuckles he'd have his gliding and he's generally more combat-ready. He's definitely likely, but he's definitely not exciting.
Robotnik could have his hovering pod thing transform into various designs based on old Sonic bosses, like the drill car or the wrecking ball, scaled down to, say, Bowser's size of course. They can get creative with it.
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