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[Snakey]

Here is a poll I looked at in regards to Star Fox that I think is interesting:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/65162191/730777851

Which of these would you have as the playable representation? - Results (105 votes)
Fox, Falco, Wolf: 42.86%: (45)
Fox, Falco, Wolf, Krystal: 14.29%: (15)
Fox, Falco, Krystal: 5.71%: (6)
Fox, Wolf, Krystal 16.19% (17)
Fox, Falco 6.67% (7)
Fox, Wolf 11.43% (12)
Fox, Krystal 2.86% (3)

Total votes for Wolf: 89 (84.76%)
Total votes for Falco: 73 (69.52%)
Total votes for Krystal: 41 (39.04%)

Votes for four playable characters: 15 (14.29%)
Votes for three playable characters: 68 (64.76%)
Votes for two playable characters: 22 (20.95%)

There are two interesting things that I got from looking at this poll:
1. There seems to be more interest in Wolf returning than Falco.
2. That there is more support for Star Fox to go back to two playable characters than to jump to four playable characters.

By far the most popular option for Star Fox in terms of playable characters is to leave the representation the same as it was in Brawl (Fox, Falco, Wolf). Four playable characters was not even the second-most popular option (rather it was another three character selection). Krystal is also much less popular than both Falco and Wolf (the discrepancy between Falco and Krystal in terms of votes is much greater than the discrepancy between Falco and Wolf), so hijacking a spot from one of those two would be met with a very negative reaction. The fact that there is more support for two playable character scenario than a four playable character one means that there are many people who feel the series has more playable characters that it needs/deserves right now.

Overall, I think that Fox, Falco, and Wolf is the most likely scenario for Smash 4.

I am curious if anyone else has any thoughts about this.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I'll laugh if Sakurai added another SF character for trolling the Smash fans (which they deserve)

 

[fisheyes]

3 characters for Starfox was already overkill, so I'm not surprised nobody wants 4. If they do decide to cut down characters in SSB4, one of the Starfox characters would be the first on my chopping block - they're very similar visually, and the series is really not all that big, and never really needed 3 characters at this point in time - Honestly, at this point in time, Starfox should still have been on 1 character, or, at the absolute most, 2 - it certainly shouldn't have had more characters than all other series bar Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Kirby.

Not sure who I'd cut and who I'd keep, though - Falco has been around in Smash for longer, and is visually more unique compared to Fox, but Wolf has a more unique playstyle, is a cooler character, and fills the rival role. I'd cut Falco and keep Wolf, I guess.

 

[GamerSoul]

It makes perfect sense to me. The 3 SF characters that we already have rep the series well enough. I think Krystal's popoularity has diminshed over time, like the poll indicates, BUT if a fourth SF character was chosen to be included Krystal would be the pick.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Overall, I think that Fox, Falco, and Wolf is the most likely scenario for Smash 4.

Because Sakurai bases his decisions on GameFAQs.

 

[BGBW]

DLC? Namco is on board so of course there will be DLC. Each iDOLM@STER will have to be bought separately for starters.

 

[Snakey]

Because Sakurai bases his decisions on GameFAQs.

That prediction is not based off of the poll. The only thing the poll shows is that there is a lot of animosity to the idea of Star Fox getting four characters that there is even more support for the series to go back to two playable character than for it to add another one. It also shows that by far the most popular set up for the series is the playable characters selection we already have now.

I think this is the most likely scenario because since 2006, the only two games that people have been exposed with are Virtual Console Star Fox 64, and Star Fox 64 3D for the 3DS. The post-64 games are unpopular with much of the fanbase too, and among the only game most people care about in regards to this series (64) all the characters that people like are already in now.

You also now are having people hoping that the next Star Fox game is a reboot (I think IGN even was crossing their fingers about this), so it could be that the next Star Fox game pretty erase post-64 Star Fox characters.

 

[Fidelis Hodie]

I am curious what you guys think about the topic of character DLC. Do you think it will happen or not?

As I said before, I can see DLC for Smash 4, but character DLC is iffy.

I keep reading that as "Luffy" and get extremely excited for have a second . . then realize I'm an idiot and it won't ever happen.

 

[Boss Doggie]

That prediction is not based off of the poll. The only thing the poll shows is that there is a lot of animosity to the idea of Star Fox getting four characters that there is even more support for the series to go back to two playable character than for it to add another one. It also shows that by far the most popular set up for the series is the playable characters selection we already have now.

I think this is the most likely scenario because since 2006, the only two games that people have been exposed with are Virtual Console Star Fox 64, and Star Fox 64 3D for the 3DS. The post-64 games are unpopular with much of the fanbase too, and among the only game most people care about in regards to this series (64) all the characters that people like are already in now.

Eh still unlikely. I mean, Assault and Command weren't received with open arms and the roster got a new one - what more when the latest game (the remake) got favorable reviews and sales?

Sakurai is unpredictable and honestly I want him to troll the community more because they deserve the ire they can get.

You also now are having people hoping that the next Star Fox game is a reboot (I think IGN even was crossing their fingers about this), so it could be that the next Star Fox game pretty erase post-64 Star Fox characters.

Good god no. Krystal I agree but Panther? Leather Wolf? Hell no.

 

[L Thammy]

I'd love to see a comprehensive list of all known rejected Smash content, with sources.

I've read that Mach Rider that the robot from Joy Mecha Fight were rejected, but can't find sources now. I also just found out recently that the Stage Builder was supposed to be in the original game (the announcer has a voice sample for it.)

 

[Ryce]

I'd love to see a comprehensive list of all known rejected Smash content, with sources.

I've read that Mach Rider that the robot from Joy Mecha Fight were rejected, but can't find sources now. I also just found out recently that the Stage Builder was supposed to be in the original game (the announcer has a voice sample for it.)

I recall somebody talking about Wolf's planned inclusion for the original SSB, but as far as I remember he never actually provided any proof -- just "I read this in an old magazine" or something along those lines. This is the only verifiable "rejected content" that I know of:

Bowser, Dedede, and Mewtwo were planned for SSB64, but time constraints led to their exclusion. (Source)

Final Smashes were planned for the original SSB, too. Some of the sound clips, like Ness' "PK Starstorm!" and Captain Falcon's "Come on!," are hidden away on the cart. (Source)

Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong were originally going to be a tag team in Brawl, but technical difficulties led to this being scrapped. (Source)

Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik, and Plusle & Minun were planned for Brawl. Their names are on the disc as dummy files, and we know that Sakurai had additional characters planned that he didn't have time to include in the game. Sakurai created a core roster for the Subspace Emissary, and then he tacked on a bunch of characters at the end of the roster that he would only begin working on if he had time to. These characters are grouped together at the end of the roster (each character has an ID number) along with Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. (Source 1, source 2, and my own digging into the disc's files)

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Wolf being playable in SSB64 was just a theory by Snakey. I personally feel it's likely he was at least supposed to be in Melee instead of Falco.

He's in that FMV intro with a new realistic design that doesn't show up anywhere else. Since this intro would've probably been made several months in advance to Melee going gold, considering how rushed the game was there was likely tons probably changed between that intro being animated and the game it represented. Having Wolf has a complete clone of Fox would've been more awkward than having his co-pilot Falco be his clone. Lastly, apparently there's several things in Brawl's programming that suggest he was the last character put in the game (no victory fanfare whereas every other character and even the cut Mewtwo and Roy do for instance), which what with his (mostly) original moveset could suggest there was at least conceptual work from previous Smash's Sakurai could quickly pull from.

It's a tenuous link but since he was in Melee's FMV intro and in Brawl as an AT (where several more important franchises got no AT's) a part of me feels/wishes Samurai Goroh has been planned for awhile now.

 

[Ryce]

It's a tenuous link but since he was in Melee's FMV intro and in Brawl as an AT (where several more important franchises got no AT's) a part of me feels/wishes Samurai Goroh has been planned for awhile now.

Samurai Goroh strikes me as a "he's not important enough to get an original move set" character, which is why he hasn't been playable so far. If Takamaru's included in SSB4 then I could see Sakurai fashioning a Goroh semi-clone out of him, but even then there hasn't been an F-Zero game in nearly a decade, so that probably isn't going to happen.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Samurai Goroh strikes me as a "he's not important enough to get an original move set" character, which is why he hasn't been playable so far. If Takamaru's included in SSB4 then I could see Sakurai fashioning a Goroh semi-clone out of him, but even then there hasn't been an F-Zero game in nearly a decade, so that probably isn't going to happen.

Oh I get both due to Takamaru and F-Zero's diminished status he's as unlikely as ever, but being both a fan of F-Zero and its unique characters it's a bummer we potentially lost out on a cyber-punkish samurai thief character to play as. He could alternate between graceful samurai techniques and sneaky traps, or bar room brawl like punches and kicks just to create a funny contrast.

Since people are really reluctant to get rid of (in my opinion) Ganondorf's boring as hell Falcon moveset, the closest bet to F-Zero getting a more balanced portrayal in Smash would be giving Black Shadow Ganondorf's moveset. Plus it forces them to give their most villainous villain a real moveset.

 

[Ryce]

Lastly, apparently there's several things in Brawl's programming that suggest he was the last character put in the game (no victory fanfare whereas every other character and even the cut Mewtwo and Roy do for instance), which what with his (mostly) original moveset could suggest there was at least conceptual work from previous Smash's Sakurai could quickly pull from.

Following the Subspace Emissary cast, the "bonus" characters are ordered as such on the disc:

Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Roy
Dr. Mario
Toon Link
Toon Zelda
Toon Sheik
Wolf
Plusle & Minun

Sonic is at the end of the list, and Sakurai has said that it wasn't even until 2007 that the decision to include Sonic was made. By comparison, every other character was planned back in 2005.

The plausible narrative that I stand behind is that after finishing the Subspace Emissary characters, the team had time to complete Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. They then started working on Mewtwo and Roy, but these two were abandoned in order to include Sonic. So, essentially, Mewtwo and Roy aren't in the game because of the late addition of Sonic.

I wonder if Sakurai wants to follow through with his old Brawl plans and include the missing characters in SSB4, although it would appear (for Plusle & Minun especially) that their day in the sun has long passed. Roy and Dr. Mario were clearly planned to placate Melee fans, but now that they've missed out on Brawl there isn't any real urgency for them to return.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Wolf being playable in SSB64 was just a theory by Snakey.

No, it was that guy who posted links to old Famitsu articles. He didn't actually link a source for the Wolf thing, but it seemed like he was a reliable person, and he did dig up a lot of other stuff, so I personally think that's pretty legit info.

 

[Snakey]

Wolf being playable in SSB64 was just a theory by Snakey.

That was not my theory. It came from another user named cedynm (he is banned right now). There was no source for his information, so I am going to take it with a grain of salt until I see a source for it. The Famitsu Brawl stuff gets cited on Japanese sites, but I never saw any of what cedynm talked about on any Japanese Smash Bros. site or Japanese wikipedia articles (Brawl Famitsu stuff was used as citations for them, so I assume Melee Famitsu stuff would be mentioned to if it was known).

The plausible narrative that I stand behind is that after finishing the Subspace Emissary characters, the team had time to complete Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. They then started working on Mewtwo and Roy, but these two were abandoned in order to include Sonic. So, essentially, Mewtwo and Roy aren't in the game because of the late addition of Sonic.

I wonder if Sakurai wants to follow through with his old Brawl plans and include the missing characters in SSB4, although it would appear (for Plusle & Minun especially) that their day in the sun has long passed. Roy and Dr. Mario were clearly planned to placate Melee fans, but now that they've missed out on Brawl there isn't any real urgency for them to return.

That is my theory too (that Sonic bumped out Mewtwo and Roy). Keep in mind that it was not just work on the playable character Sonic that bumped them out, but they also had to include a slew of Sonic content as well since it was a new series. A stage, music, trophies, and stickers had to be added in for Sonic's inclusion. Not to mention Sakurai has said that there is more difficulty in making third-party characters fit in Smash Bros. than Nintendo ones, so Sonic as a character could have been more time consuming for his inclusion than other newcomers for Brawl.

As to Sakurai revisting his old plans in regards to the "Forbidden 7", here is what I see for each character:

Mewtwo:
I would be sincerely surprised if he is not in Smash 4. Probably the most wanted character for Smash 4.

Roy:
There is a strong demand for his return as well. He was a popular character in Melee too, unlike the other scrapped clones (Dr. Mario and Pichu). The character would be relatively easy to re-include and has received a very well-received re-design in FE13. The second-most likely of the "scrapped" Brawl characters to make it in Smash 4. A FE6 remake is also possibly in the cards.

Dr. Mario:
Unlike Mewtwo and Roy, there is not much of a demand for his return. Half of the time people who ask for his return its for as a costume (which Sakurai shot down as an idea before Melee's release). However, despite being a relatively unpopular addition for Melee and being derided as the "cloniest of the clones", Sakurai still intended to bring him back at some point in Brawl's development. I still think Dr. Mario is plausible to be added back in, especially if Sakurai has the intention of bringing back EVERYONE.

Dixie Kong:
She was planned as part of a tag-team character with Diddy Kong, but things did not work out. She is still quite popular as a character though, and overall iconic to the DK series. However, there is a stronger demand for K. Rool as a DK newcomer than her, so she probably won't get the third playable DK spot. However, Sakurai having put some thought into her animations and attacks would be feasible as a last minute Wolf/Lucas style character based on Diddy Kong (sharing the same specials and final smash, but having completely different A-moves and throws). Overall, she is probably the third most likely of the scrapped Brawl characters, and I would rate her chances at getting in as 50/50. Like K. Rool, she also has the problem that they both have dropped off the face of the earth since Mario Super Sluggers (which was released only a few months after Brawl).

Toon Zelda:
This character actually had an important role in a Zelda game released after Brawl, Spirit Tracks. However, since Spirit Tracks, the future of the "toon style" Zelda is questionable, with many people contemplating whether Sakurai will go back with Young Link for the "child" version of Link. There is little interest in her inclusion unlike Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong. Its possible that she could be included if Sakurai decided to keep Toon Link as the "child" Link, and if another "toon style" Zelda is the next 3DS Zelda and Toon Zelda has a role in it.

Toon Sheik:
I have no idea what Sakurai was thinking with this. Toon Sheik does not even exist in the Zelda series, so this technically would make her a Smash Bros. original character. I think if Toon Zelda were somehow to get in Smash 4, there is a good chance that Sakurai would opt out of the Toon Sheik idea and just give Toon Zelda an unique down-special.

Plusle & Minun:
As Ryce has said, their boat has sailed away. There is not much demand for their inclusion either. They were obviously selected as a way to to be the successor to Pichu (without the self-damage handicap) much like how Toon Link was the successor to Young Link. Plusle & Minun along with Toon Sheik is the least likely of Brawl's scrapped characters to be added to Smash 4. I actually think Pichu has a plausible shot of returning. Pichu was promoted a lot in the years between Brawl and Smash 4, and is still the most iconic Pokemon from the second-generation. There is also surprisingly quite a bit of nostalgia for Pichu from what I have seen from Japanese Smash Bros. fans (maybe they got the point of Pichu?). I think while Pichu may be unpopular with the Smash Bros. fanbase, it is still a very popular Pokemon among Pokemon fans, and for that, Sakurai would give this character a second-look.

 

[Duderino]

It's a "hidden" ability that normal players wouldn't be aware of, and clearly not balanced for normal gameplay. If they kept it like it was in Melee (I have no idea why they would) it would definitely be a large advantage and I somehow doubt Sakurai would want that for this series, especially since it will probably have working online.

Now they could certainly add a "dash" move, but it would hardly be wavedashing or give you the same advantages.

Just to put it in perspective, washdashing has a lot in common with the discovery of combos in Street Fighter II. Both were technically known exploits by the developers, but with no expectation players would ever discover and develop practices to use them effectively. It's a rare thing when accidents like these result it good game mechanics. Not every game is as lucky as SFII or Melee to have an exploit that expands on the framework rather than breaking it.

As much as we know these 'hidden' abilities can be a point of frustration for less dedicated players, put yourself in the shoes of a SFII fan and imagine if Capcom took the steps to 'fix' its major glitch in subsequent tittles. Thankfully they recognized the potential of what they had and instead made it part of the design. With the role wavedashing has played in Melee's prolonged lifespan, I think it's fair to say Sakurai got a little too carried away with the impossible task of flat lining the play level curve, missing some of the inherent value here.

I agree that something similar to wavedashing should to make a return, just in a more accessible and developed form. It is already a good compliment to the established mechanics, adding it with a more natural input would be one of the better decisions they could make for SSB4.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I think it's pretty obvious Toon Sheik was supposed to be Tetra.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I think that if Toon Sheik was Tetra, that file would have been called Tetra.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I don't.

Diddy's referred to as DKJr. in most Mario spinoff game's coding for instance, despite it being self-explanatory who the programmer was really referring to. Since Tetra literally *is* a toon-ified Sheik conceptually-speaking in WW and Toon Zelda was in all likelihood supposed to be a quick clone character, I don't see why the name they used throws some people off.

 

[Ryce]

I don't know -- Sheik's vanish, chain, and overly flexible ninja attacks wouldn't make a lick of sense for Tetra (even less than Captain Ganondorf). I could only see Tetra working with an original move set, but I don't think Sakurai would ever bother with something like that. My guess is that Toon Sheik means Toon Sheik. Bizarre, yeah, but she was probably the least prioritized character in the game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

So if Pit gets a secret taunt for KI stage, would you want it be a scripted banter a la Star Fox or would it be the gods/Pit talking about a character a la Snake?

 

[qq more]

So if Pit gets a secret taunt for KI stage, would you want it be a scripted banter a la Star Fox or would it be the gods/Pit talking about a character a la Snake?

The latter. I want to hear Palutena's commentary on the other characters :lol

 

[Snakey]

I am curious what games in which Diddy Kong is referred to as Donkey Kong Jr. (within the game's files).

I hope a few people got something out of my assessment regarding the Forbidden 7.

 

[Ryce]

I'd actually really like for Roy to return, but I've been unable to convince myself that it's realistically plausible. Yes, he's popular, but I don't think that'll cut it. Awakening is the highest profile Fire Emblem release I've experienced, and it's done very well both critically and commercially. Plus, it's new and relevant. I can't see Chrom being excluded. I also don't think Sakurai will take out Ike (a completely unique character who's starred in two Fire Emblem games) for Roy.

Marth, Ike, and Chrom is the Fire Emblem lineup I'd bet on; someone from the '90s, someone from the '00s, and someone from the '10s. I've heard the hair color "argument" too many times and it still doesn't make any sense.

 

[Kokonoe]

Well, both Sheik and Tetra have darker skin color, so there's that.

 

[Snakey]

I'd actually really like for Roy to return, but I've been unable to convince myself that it's realistically plausible. Yes, he's popular, but I don't think that'll cut it. Awakening is the highest profile Fire Emblem release I've experienced, and it's done very well both critically and commercially. Plus, it's new and relevant. I can't see Chrom being excluded. I also don't think Sakurai will take out Ike (a completely unique character who's starred in two Fire Emblem games) for Roy.

I don't think its unrealistic for four Fire Emblem characters. The FE characters are usually among the most popular characters in Melee/Brawl, and Roy would be relatively easy character to re-include, not to mention would be a popular re-addition and could easily stand out even if only slight luigi-fication was made (I think the FE13 re-design, and his Sealed Sword being aflame when he does Smash or Charged attacks like in FE6 would easily set him apart for the rest of the cast if only from an aesthetics pov). Roy was very likely going to be luigi-fied (the other returning Melee clones, Falco and Ganondorf were).

Eruption was likely a move that once belonged to this luigi-fied Roy. Sakurai mentioned that Ike originally had the Ragnell's shockwave as one of his specials, but he had to cut it out since he felt it made Ike overpowered when they were balancing the game. The theory goes that after they decided to scrap Ike's projectile special they needed a quick replacement for it (since this was late in development), since Roy was already abandoned at that point, they took one of the planned specials for him (Eruption) and gave it to Ike.

I expect if Ike returns, he will have a new special in place of Eruption, regardless of whether Roy returns or not.

I also think Chrom is probably going to be a luigi-fied version of Ike if he gets in (probably won't have Eruption and Great Aether though). He has the skill of Aether, and one of his criticals is Quick Draw. Chrom also seems to have been heavily inspired by Ike looking at his concept art.

 

[SmithnCo]

I don't know -- Sheik's vanish, chain, and overly flexible ninja attacks wouldn't make a lick of sense for Tetra (even less than Captain Ganondorf). I could only see Tetra working with an original move set, but I don't think Sakurai would ever bother with something like that. My guess is that Toon Sheik means Toon Sheik. Bizarre, yeah, but she was probably the least prioritized character in the game.

I could see them just "pirate"-izing it as best they could, like a smoke bomb instead of Deku Nut or whatever, but you may be right. Would've been interesting to see a Toon Sheik anyway.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I am curious what games in which Diddy Kong is referred to as Donkey Kong Jr. (within the game's files).

I hope a few people got something out of my assessment regarding the Forbidden 7.

I know at the very least Double Dash onwards refer to Diddy as DKJr., but my memory gets fuzzy after that since I fell out of following beta video game stuff ages ago. That could be an unfair example though since Diddy's existence started off as an updated DK Jr. before Nintendo got Rare to replace him with a new character, so some of Nintendo's older programmers could just be aggro over that, I dunno.

My point is that it'd seem way easier to just have Tetra use, as SmithnCo said, 'pirate-y' versions of Sheik's moves (there really isn't anything there which would look out of place for a pirate captain IMO) and calling her Toon Sheik gets her function across easier to programmers. Aren't those two Pikachu-like characters also referred to by something other than their actual names in Brawl's programming? Not that we'll ever really know who she was, unless they get lazy/desperate again for characters at the last minute in SSB4 :U

I also see Marth/Ike/Chrom being the likely FE setup, but the FE series is completely alien to me. Keeping Ike just seems to make sense since (unless somebody can explain otherwise) he's not that similar to Marth/Chrom technique-wise and he was a major, western FE Lord. I think even ignoring Smash if you were to ask more casual Nintendo fans to list a FE protagonist they'd know Ike before a lot of others, even other English releases like Lyn or Eliwood.

 

[Ryce]

Eruption was likely a move that once belonged to this luigi-fied Roy. Sakurai mentioned that Ike originally had the Ragnell's shockwave as one of his specials, but he had to cut it out since he felt it made Ike overpowered when they were balancing the game. The theory goes that after they decided to scrap Ike's projectile special they needed a quick replacement for it (since this was late in development), since Roy was already abandoned at that point, they took one of the planned specials for him (Eruption) and gave it to Ike.

Eh, I doubt it. Isn't the ground stabbing motion what causes the shockwave? (It's not an actual "projectile.") The shockwave portion of the attack is what was probably scrapped and replaced with the close range explosion, but I doubt Ike's animation ever changed. I don't see why a Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn attack would be planned for Roy. Plus, thrusting his sword into the ground is sort of an Ike trademark.

 

[Snakey]

Eh, I doubt it. Isn't the ground stabbing motion what causes the shockwave? (It's not an actual "projectile.") The shockwave portion of the attack is what was probably scrapped and replaced with the close range explosion, but I doubt Ike's animation ever changed. I don't see why a Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn attack would ever be planned for Roy. Plus, thrusting his sword into the ground is sort of an Ike trademark.

Ike does not stab the ground for Ragenll's projectile in FE9/FE10. Shockwave was not the right word to use. The Ragnell's projectile was also not fire, but rather some sort of blue energy. He kind of just swings his sword and a wave of energy comes out.

Also, I don't remember Ike ever thrusting the sword in the ground for FE9/FE10 (Chrom does it though in FE13).

 

[Ryce]

Ike does not stab the ground for Ragenll's projectile in FE9/FE10. Shockwave was not the right word to use. The Ragnell's projectile was also not fire, but rather some sort of blue energy. He kind of just swings his sword and a wave of energy comes out.

Is there a video of it anywhere? I'm sort of confused. I think I saw an Eruption-like "shockwave" attack years ago during Brawl's heyday, but I might be mistaking that for something else.

Also, I don't remember Ike ever thrusting the sword in the ground for FE9/FE10 (Chrom does it though in FE13).

I was mainly referring to Sakurai's depiction of him in Brawl, what with the sword thrusting taunt and general weight of the Ragnell. It just seems out of character to me that Roy would do something like that.

 

[Snakey]

Is there a video of it anywhere? I'm sort of confused. I think I saw an Eruption-like "shockwave" attack years ago during Brawl's heyday, but I might be mistaking that for something else.

You are remembering incorrectly. I still think Eruption was Luigi-fied Roy move and was give to Ike towards the end of development after Ike's projectile special was dropped.

Also, the whole "stabbing the ground is out of character for Roy" is a bit of an opinion. In FE6, Roy's attack animations were very flashy (doing lots of flips and spins).

 

[Ryce]

One of the Japanese Smash Bros. wikis I used to read says that according to "SmaBura Ken: Book of Enlightenment" (I'm assuming this is the book Sakurai published of all the Dojo articles along with additional comments), Eruption is inspired by an attack called "Bolganone" in Path of Radiance:

アイクと直接関係があるわけではないが、原作に「ボルガノン」という魔術書があり、それと非常に似ている。「スマブラ拳 開眼の書」より

 

[Snakey]

One of the Japanese Smash Bros. wikis I used to read says that according to "SmaBura Ken: Book of Enlightenment" (I'm assuming this is the book Sakurai published of all the Dojo articles along with additional comments), Eruption is inspired by an attack called "Bolganone" in Path of Radiance:

Bolganone was a magic attack that appeared in several Fire Emblem games. It was never used in conjunction with a sword so its strange that Sakurai attached it to Ike. I still think the attack originally belonged to Roy.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I had no idea a book like that even existed. I sort of wish I still didn't, because now I really want to read it.

 

[GamerSoul]

I also see Marth/Ike/Chrom being the likely FE setup, but the FE series is completely alien to me. Keeping Ike just seems to make sense since (unless somebody can explain otherwise) he's not that similar to Marth/Chrom technique-wise and he was a major, western FE Lord. I think even ignoring Smash if you were to ask more casual Nintendo fans to list a FE protagonist they'd know Ike before a lot of others, even other English releases like Lyn or Eliwood.

I agree with you. Ike is probably still the most known lord in the west so there would be no surprise if he returns. We'll just have to wait and see if it holds true over time because Nintendo is really pushing this new FE. They even have a special bundle prepared and I would have never thought they would do the for FE stateside. Chrom is definitely going to have fans that only recognize with him kinda like what we had with Ike. I wouldn't mind having both though. Eff it, just give the FE series 5 slots, it's an amazing series with a ton of great characters.

Bolganone was a magic attack that appeared in several Fire Emblem games. It was never used in conjunction with a sword so its strange that Sakurai attached it to Ike. I still think the attack originally belonged to Roy.

That is pretty strange but I can see how it inspired it. Maybe he learned it from his buddy Soren? hah. And isn't Ike's B special his only actual fire move? Unlike Roy who had many. Sakurai maybe more familar with FE than I once thought. And I also think that Roy had the attack first even if the animations are a bit different. Sakurai must love charge moves for FE characters or something.

Edit: Just remembered Ike's Great Aether FS also had fire for some reason.

 

[BGBW]

There's a Japan Time Book!?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

so i'm getting back into melee and for some reason i can't discern i'm playing ganondorf

maybe it's like the closest thing to playing snake

 

[Ryce]

There's a Japan Time Book!?

From what I can see, it was released as a free supplement to Famitsu #998.

 

[Shadow Hog]

so i'm getting back into melee and for some reason i can't discern i'm playing ganondorf

maybe it's like the closest thing to playing snake

I actually used to really like playing as Ganondorf in Melee. Like, for the longest time, my characters of choice were Ganondorf, Roy and Kirby. These days I opt more for Captain Falcon, though; and Ganondorf was absolutely ruined in Brawl, IMO... Nothing about him felt "right".

 

[Snakey]

One thing I have noticed compared to I saw with Melee and Brawl, is that there is much less hype for characters (or rather requests) this time than for Melee and Brawl. This makes sense considering how Melee and Brawl pretty much added nearly all of the notable Nintendo characters. The only four characters I have seen a high interest in comparable to what I saw with Melee and Brawl (at least in the West) are Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and K. Rool. In Japan, there seems to be even less character interest.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Which is probably why Sakurai made his "you can't just add new characters to this one and call it a day" comment, presumably.

I mean, yeah, there's still franchises that Nintendo could scrape something from; Startropics, Nazo no Murasame Jou (Takamaru), Xenoblade, some of their more recent eShop titles (Dillon, notably)... but the A-list have already come and brawled, so I'm not sure where they'd really go from here. I'm sure they'll pleasantly surprise me, though.

 

[L Thammy]

I think the problem with games like this is that people don't really consider the implementation of a character. There's a lot that Sakurai needs to think about that we don't.

I'll use Ridley as an example. You can say Ridley's popular and that he needs a second rep, but how would he be unique? How do you make him look right?

Forgetting the "too big" argument, he doesn't have human proportions. He's got a hunched back, a long head, long arms, and a tail the size of his body. If he doesn't have a large range his animations may look scrunched, and if you give him a large range you'll have to give him some weakness to compensate.

Not saying that it'll work exactly like that, but there's more to it than picking a popular dude and slapping them in. A number of Brawl's characters had some gimmick to them: Olimar's Pikmin, Lucario's aura, Pokemon Trainer's character switching, Wario's fart... These all help to make the character distinctive.

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

I think the problem with games like this is that people don't really consider the implementation of a character. There's a lot that Sakurai needs to think about that we don't.

I'll use Ridley as an example. You can say Ridley's popular and that he needs a second rep, but how would he be unique? How do you make him look right?

Forgetting the "too big" argument, he doesn't have human proportions. He's got a hunched back, a long head, long arms, and a tail the size of his body. If he doesn't have a large range his animations may look scrunched, and if you give him a large range you'll have to give him some weakness to compensate.

Not saying that it'll work exactly like that, but there's more to it than picking a popular dude and slapping them in. A number of Brawl's characters had some gimmick to them: Olimar's Pikmin, Lucario's aura, Pokemon Trainer's character switching, Wario's fart... These all help to make the character distinctive.

Farting is never a gimmick! Never!

But yeah, I don't see how he can get Ridley to work. I love the character and think Metroid deserves another rep, Ridley is synonymous with the franchise, but I can't wrap my head around the logistics. Maybe Adam Malkovich can take Ridley's place?

 

[GamerSoul]

If they really wanted Ridley in they would make him work in some shape or form. Fans would appreciate the effort. And on the topic of hype for characters, I think most people are just burnt out at this point with predictions and roster ideas. Once we get a trailer revealing the first batch of newcomers, I can see some hype coming back.

 

[L Thammy]

He's not even the worst example. How do you get a varied moveset out of Little Mac? What would make Shulk different from the other swordsmen beyond a few specials? They sound like a good idea, but they need some creativity to make them work. It's not impossible. But a bad character for fanservice's sake isn't a good trade unless they're easy to make.

 

[Snakey]

If they really wanted Ridley in they would make him work in some shape or form. Fans would appreciate the effort. And on the topic of hype for characters, I think most people are just burnt out at this point with predictions and roster ideas. Once we get a trailer revealing the first batch of newcomers, I can see some hype coming back.

I don't think its a burn out. The pre-Brawl period was just as long as the Smash 4 one is, but I have noticed a lot less hype than what I saw prior to Brawl's announcement. Its simply a result of nearly all the big names already being in at this point.

I expect the first four newcomers we will get will be Ridley, Palutena, Takamaru, and Mega Man (or a Namco character in place of Mega Man).

Also, in regards to the Ridley size stuff:

 

[I'M FINISHED!]

If they really wanted Ridley in they would make him work in some shape or form. Fans would appreciate the effort. And on the topic of hype for characters, I think most people are just burnt out at this point with predictions and roster ideas. Once we get a trailer revealing the first batch of newcomers, I can see some hype coming back.

I am still hyping in my pants for new character additions. There is no one really left besides some curve balls and I am ready to strikeout. If there is no Punch Out!! representative this time I will be surprised, it's just a shame that it will most likely be Little Mac.