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Next Super Smash Bros. discussion thread, Community Edition
- Thread starter Snakeyes
- Start date
- Status
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
just set your exception very low then you will be happy. I would do same thing after what's happens with Brawl and the audiences.
shaowebb
Member
The problem with brawl is that it added two gameplay distortions that messed with its formula.
Smash balls, and flight.
Smash balls mean that if they are in use they come up constantly so it changes the game from one of the most incredibly approachable footsy heavy games ever where you are all trying to get in on each other and knock each other off the stage into...well...it turns it into a game of keep away and chase. Folks run the whole match and try to wait for smash balls to chase down and abuse. These things are guaranteed KO's (sometimes several) and many folks just don't play the game anymore because of them. They just show up, hide, and then try to be rewarded for avoiding play. They really messed up having Smash Balls spawn withou any sort of collection system to trigger their appearance like with gems in Power Stone triggering transformations or like with gathering the Dragoon parts.
Flight is really only a problem with Pitt and Metaknight and they became so easily abusable that tourney folks banned them as well as many casual players. I can't tell you how many times I was playing with casual groups of folks and someone would yell no Meta Knights or no Pitt after only a few matches to the many nods of the whole room. Why is flight this big of a deal? It means characters have a huge advantage at staying on the stage and running away making them the hardest to hurt and the hardest to kill even if you land smash attacks and good damage.
Overhaul anyone with flight to make it riskier and less abusable, and make Smash Ball generation something either meter based or collection based in order to spawn even one in a match. Having over 5 just pop up in a single stock match is ridiculous. One maximum Smash Ball use per player per match would be a rule I'd add to that tool.
Smash balls, and flight.
Smash balls mean that if they are in use they come up constantly so it changes the game from one of the most incredibly approachable footsy heavy games ever where you are all trying to get in on each other and knock each other off the stage into...well...it turns it into a game of keep away and chase. Folks run the whole match and try to wait for smash balls to chase down and abuse. These things are guaranteed KO's (sometimes several) and many folks just don't play the game anymore because of them. They just show up, hide, and then try to be rewarded for avoiding play. They really messed up having Smash Balls spawn withou any sort of collection system to trigger their appearance like with gems in Power Stone triggering transformations or like with gathering the Dragoon parts.
Flight is really only a problem with Pitt and Metaknight and they became so easily abusable that tourney folks banned them as well as many casual players. I can't tell you how many times I was playing with casual groups of folks and someone would yell no Meta Knights or no Pitt after only a few matches to the many nods of the whole room. Why is flight this big of a deal? It means characters have a huge advantage at staying on the stage and running away making them the hardest to hurt and the hardest to kill even if you land smash attacks and good damage.
- Pitt can go from the bottom of the screen all the way to the top making him ridiculously good in a game based on ring outs and keep away since he can avoid falling so easily via flight, can safely recover from any ring out attempt at any distance, and even attack while doing so.
- Meta Knight's glide is so long that he has the most insane air recovery imaginable when knocked off of edges. Plus it lasts so long his keep away is ridiculous with it since he can effectively fly eternally and it counts as an attack.
Overhaul anyone with flight to make it riskier and less abusable, and make Smash Ball generation something either meter based or collection based in order to spawn even one in a match. Having over 5 just pop up in a single stock match is ridiculous. One maximum Smash Ball use per player per match would be a rule I'd add to that tool.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The only Raiden I like is the big, fatass one who speaks in Engrish.
I AM RAIDOWN
I AM RAIDOWN
shaowebb
Member
Problem is catching them and getting a smash attack that kills and not just leaves them on screen since they can air recover safely from anywhere still on screen. In a game meant to be approachable to anyone you also have to remember Smash balls are usually in play. Them being able to run away and move in the air that well also means that most games would have them running constantly and staying into areas other cast couldn't reach and Smash ball fishing as we all saw happen in brawl. Shadow Moses with Pitt and Smash Balls is just plain silly, and Metaknight flying under the stage or at maximum height out of reach waiting to Smash fish was even worse at times. Stuff like that online, in person, in casual or at tourneys is just plain broken and frustrating and shouldn't be allowed to repeat as a part of the experience the next time around.
Those are the reasons why I feel they have to be overhauled on flight and anyone added with flight needs treated similarly in how they balance out the problems flight caused in brawl. Its just a tool that really destroys the game for casuals and for pros. It fails on both sides of the spectrum in terms of balance so it has to be taken into account for the sequel.
Haha yes. I want this and I want him to have a Luigi-level wavedash and jiggle physics. Poetry in motion.
Professor Beef
Banned
I WILL DAWNS ON YO GWAVE
I forgot about the custom robo guy. He would be pretty cool.
shaowebb
Member
Just thought a sword user with Sheik like speed would be kind of Awesome. that and I was trying to give each of my 3rd party company ideas 2 representatives. Suppose Dr. Robotnik should be added since I expect Sonic and Snake to stick around. May even see Ryu Hayabusa from Team Ninja all things considered.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Speaking of Engrish and graves, what about that Altered Beast guy?
We need a battered up and realistic unicycle. As long as it doesn't look like a unicycle from a certain Pixar film. Unirally/racer is one of the few game that Nintendo has abandoned due to legal proceeding. It can also use a h.a.m.m.e.r to attack others with. If ROB, a character that has popped up all over the place before Brawl came out, can muster up enough anger to want revenge, this unicycle will be absolutely livid and want a massacre.
shaowebb
Member
Virtual Boy will use its tripod legs to walk like a spider-mech and shall eyebeam everything in his path. Seriously though I want Captain N for the sheer ridiculous factor he would add for joke cast slot. Imagine the god awful assist trophies his presence could call for in the game.
Generally, I see requests for Mewtwo and Roy to be brought back, however, for Dr. Mario its "he should be brought back too... as a costume." There is a sizable portion of fans that would like to see Dr. Mario return yet most of these people don't want him stinking up a slot on the character selection screen. They even go so far as to say this "costume" should be able to throw the pills and have stats from Melee. Regardless, I think a "Dr. Mario costume" that is basically more like Dr. Mario in Melee than Overalls Wario (of which has the same stats as WarioWare Wario) is feasible, and would easily placed in even at the end of development. Dr. Mario does not even need different voice sound effects.
I have said this too regarding Rhythm Heaven. There are other ways for the franchise to be represented aside from a playable character (stage, Assist Trophy, possibly items).
One thing I think we are going to see in Smash 4 is the expansion of Nintendo series that will be given a stage but no playable character (think Animal Crossing, Electroplankton, and DS in Brawl).
Glad to see some decent support for Takamaru.
Every fighting game needs a classic Samurai style, and Takamaru can also be counted as a retro character. If he alone makes it in, this game is a definite buy for me.
Other newcomers I'd like to see are -
Eliwood - I know this is a long shot, but I've always preferred Eli over his son. I dunno, he seems more... manlier? Anyway, with fans screaming for Roy's return, I thought they'd do well to replace him with his father, as he's obviously more well known over here, but keep the same move-set with a couple of added tweeks.
I know both Lyn and Hector would add more diversity than him, but, again, with Roy's return being a huge selling point for some players, I see no problem transferring his move-set over to a more well known, but similar character.
Fire Emblem 3DS' My Unit - Chrome seems like another blue haired swordsman, which is fine, but what I thought'd be sweet is if you could transfer your created character over from FE3DS' My Unit system. Not only would it diversify the Fire Emblem representatives, it'd also play in well to the whole WiiU and 3DS cross over they've been promoting.
Shulk - Xenoblade's recent acclaim should earn it at least one rep, and I see no one better than the main character himself.
Leon (Starfox) - Cooler than Krystal imo, but way less iconic, unique, and, sadly, popular. He'd make a great rival for Falco, but his chances aren't all that great, eh? I'd at least like to see him as one of Wolf's alt. outfits, and I'd by willing to but dlc if it were to happen.
Bowser Jr. - I dunno, having Diddy in a game while Jr. gets left out doesn't feel right for some reason. I guess it's because I'm so used to seeing them together in games like Mario Kart, but they've always been somewhat of a team in my eyes. His chances look pretty good, and his moveset could really be inventive if they involve his paintbrush. I know fans are leaning more towards Rosalina or Waluigi as Mario's new rep, but it's gotta be Jr. for me.
Ghirahim - Iconic and unique villain of one of the most recent critically acclaimed games? It'd surprise me if he didn't make it in.
As for 3rd party characters, Chrono is easily at the top of my list. There's more, obviously, but that's my main wishlist. I know some stand little to no chance, but Sakurai is known for surprises, right? Whatever the case, c'mon Takamaru!
Every fighting game needs a classic Samurai style, and Takamaru can also be counted as a retro character. If he alone makes it in, this game is a definite buy for me.
Other newcomers I'd like to see are -
Eliwood - I know this is a long shot, but I've always preferred Eli over his son. I dunno, he seems more... manlier? Anyway, with fans screaming for Roy's return, I thought they'd do well to replace him with his father, as he's obviously more well known over here, but keep the same move-set with a couple of added tweeks.
I know both Lyn and Hector would add more diversity than him, but, again, with Roy's return being a huge selling point for some players, I see no problem transferring his move-set over to a more well known, but similar character.
Fire Emblem 3DS' My Unit - Chrome seems like another blue haired swordsman, which is fine, but what I thought'd be sweet is if you could transfer your created character over from FE3DS' My Unit system. Not only would it diversify the Fire Emblem representatives, it'd also play in well to the whole WiiU and 3DS cross over they've been promoting.
Shulk - Xenoblade's recent acclaim should earn it at least one rep, and I see no one better than the main character himself.
Leon (Starfox) - Cooler than Krystal imo, but way less iconic, unique, and, sadly, popular. He'd make a great rival for Falco, but his chances aren't all that great, eh? I'd at least like to see him as one of Wolf's alt. outfits, and I'd by willing to but dlc if it were to happen.
Bowser Jr. - I dunno, having Diddy in a game while Jr. gets left out doesn't feel right for some reason. I guess it's because I'm so used to seeing them together in games like Mario Kart, but they've always been somewhat of a team in my eyes. His chances look pretty good, and his moveset could really be inventive if they involve his paintbrush. I know fans are leaning more towards Rosalina or Waluigi as Mario's new rep, but it's gotta be Jr. for me.
Ghirahim - Iconic and unique villain of one of the most recent critically acclaimed games? It'd surprise me if he didn't make it in.
As for 3rd party characters, Chrono is easily at the top of my list. There's more, obviously, but that's my main wishlist. I know some stand little to no chance, but Sakurai is known for surprises, right? Whatever the case, c'mon Takamaru!
shaowebb
Member
Im just shocked that with the Gatchapon theme of the whole Smash world that they have NEVER made a Stage with a machine that is a giant Gatchapon vending machine filled with trophies and items that kick out during the match. It just seems like so obvious and exciting an idea to me. Especially if you can attack the handle to force items or hazards at random onto the field.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Marshall/Mash.
He's the new mascot of Rhythm Heaven Fever and was also one of the iconic 'Glee Club' singers from the DS version. He's pretty much instantly recognizable to anyone that's played the games.
We must take this abomination of Nintendo further. A virtual boy wearing, h.a.m.m.e.r. welding unicycle that uses a Wii Speak as a whip. For a final smash it transforms into whatever a Raven Blade is and topples over. Anyone hit by it suffers 1% damage and is stunned. However that is not all, a giant rubber stamp comes from the direction of the screen and stamps [CANCELED] right on top of Nintendo Abomination and anyone caught within the stamp in instantly knocked out for the rest of the game.
Also the Pictochat stage will be replace with a Swap Note one complete with Nikki.
Here is my proposed roster for Smash 4:
- All characters from Brawl return
- Mewtwo and Roy are brought back
- 12 newcomers (Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Black Shadow, Palutena, Medusa, Little Mac, Takamaru, Saki, Starfy, Mii, and Mega Man). Newcomer distribution is equally divided between new series and newcomers for veteran series.
- 49 slots plus random icon (50 slots total I guess).
- 53 total playable characters (a 14 character jump over Brawl).
From Smash 64 to Melee, there was a 14 character increase, and from Melee to Brawl there was a 13 character increase. So this 14 character increase is based off of what I expect at the most.
All Characters From Brawl Return + Mewtwo & Roy brought back:
All of the characters that were introduced in Brawl were received very well and have a large amount of fans. There is generally a lot of hostility to the idea of cuts this time around, and most Smash Bros. fans would rather see the entire Brawl cast brought back. Of the cut Melee characters, Mewtwo and Roy are the ones brought up the most in regards to being brought back for Smash 4, and for many people, seeing these characters return would be a very big deal. They were also both planned for Brawl. There are also many who think Dr. Mario should be brought back as a costume as well (with some even suggesting Pichu as a model swap for Pikachu). This just goes to show how popular Smash Bros.'s cast is and how much personality and charm Sakurai puts into every character he places in.
Ridley:
No brainer for why he was included. He is Samus's arch-nemesis, has been in the Metroid series since the beginning, and has been in almost every game in the series to date. He is also one of the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 by the Western fanbase.
K. Rool:
Another obvious pick. K. Rool has been the main antagonist of most of the Donkey Kong platformer games since Donkey Kong Country. From his three incarnations from the DKC trilogy (as well as his role in DK64), there is a lot for him to draw from in regards to a moveset. He is also incredibly popular and highly requested for Smash Bros. worldwide.
Dixie Kong:
Obvious pick again. Dixie Kong is Nintendo's most iconic female character outside of Samus, Peach, and Zelda. Dixie Kong was one of the main protagonists for two games for the DKC trilogy, and was a playable character in most of the Donkey Kong games after Nintendo 64. She is incredibly popular as well, and is perhaps the most popular female character not yet playable in Smash Bros. Her large ponytail gives her the potential to be a character that has a disjointed hitbox that is not a sword, hammer, or Snake's limbs. She is highly requested by Smash Bros. fans worldwide. DK is Nintendo's biggest series next to Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon, so four playable characters is perfectly sound.
Black Shadow:
Its a shame that F-Zero is the only series that debuted in Smash 64 (aside from Yoshi, which has the least self-identity of the Mario spinoff franchises) is still stuck with only Captain Falcon. Many Smash Bros. fans think its high time the series finally got a newcomer. However, there is also many that are upset that the villain of one of Nintendo's biggest franchises is still a clone of Captain Falcon and want Ganondorf to received a moveset that is more befitting of him (a sword and magic, or possibly Ganon's trident). However, there are also many people that love "Captain Ganondorf" and don't want to see his moveset changed. Sakurai cited this reason (that he did not want to alienate players who loved Ganondorf's Melee moveset) as the reason why Ganondorf was still "Captain Ganondorf" in Brawl. Its from here that there is a very obvious solution. Black Shadow is the main villain of the F-Zero series and Captain Falcon's arch-nemesis, he is also one of the two main characters that people suggest for a F-Zero newcomer (the other being Samurai Goroh). Black Shadow would be a natural fit for the slow, powerful version of Captain Falcon's moveset. By giving Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset to Black Shadow, and by giving Ganondorf his own unique moveset, all parties are happy. Ganondorf gets his own moveset. F-Zero gets a second playable character. "Captain Ganondorf" fans still get to have the slow, powerful Falcon moveset. Everyone wins.
Palutena:
Kid Icarus Uprising is perhaps Sakurai's first big-budget project that was not Kirby or Super Smash Bros. Uprising is also one the most notable upcoming games for the 3DS. Its possible that this game will be for Kid Icarus as Ocarina of Time and Metroid Prime were for their respective series, basically creating a whole new generation of fans who love the series. There is also the fact that there are many who want to see more female characters. Unlike most other female characters, Palutena is actually the one of the most important figures in her series, and she is probably the second most important/notable Kid Icarus character next to Pit. She is so notable that she was the only other KI character aside from Pit that was re-designed for Brawl. There are some that say that she can't be in due to already being a part of Pit's Final Smash, however, considering how much new content is being added to the series as a result of Uprising, it quite likely that there will be a few changes to Pit's moveset. Also, there is a very obvious new Final Smash for Pit:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tl4A6pvr3g Palutena will also have two OVAs centered around her in promotion for Kid Icarus Uprising. I would talk more about Palutena's moveset possibilities (staff, magic), however, I am going to wait until Uprising and the OVAs are released before I can get a much cleared idea what she is capable of. Palutena will probably become one of the most requested characters for Smash 4 after the release of Uprising.
Medusa:
A lot of the things I mentioned in the paragraph for Palutena can be repeated here. She is the third most important character in the Kid Icarus series after Pit and Palutena. Right now she is the most requested female newcomer next to Dixie Kong. Like Palutena, she will be receiving an OVA centered around her to promote Kid Icarus Uprising. There are some that feel that three Kid Icarus characters would be really pushing it, and perhaps so, however, depending on how well Kid Icarus Uprising is received, perhaps it could be warranted, especially considering if both Palutena and Medusa experience a massive surge in requests due to Uprising's success.
Little Mac:
Punch-Out is one of Nintendo's longest running franchises, harkening back all the way to Nintendo's arcade days. Punch-Out for the NES remains to this day one of the most popular and iconic releases for that console (just check out the "Most Popular" listing for the Virtual Console each week and Punch-Out will almost always be in the Top 20). The series was also the brainchild of Genyo Takeda, who was basically the father of the Wii and one of Nintendo's first game designers. The game had a very successful resurrection title for the Wii as well. With five titles under its belt, its high time that the face of the series, Little Mac, is added to Smash Bros. Little Mac is one of the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 by the Western fanbase.
Takamaru:
Nazo no Murasame is often considered the "sister game" to the Legend of Zelda the same way Kid Icarus was to Metroid. Nazo no Murasame is a cult classic in Japan, and is remembered the way Punch-Out NES is here. Takamaru has also been showing up in lately in several games since Brawl, with a NPC role in Captain Rainbow and even the inclusion of a Nazo no Murasame mode in Samurai Warriors 3 (with Takamaru being an unlockable character). There are many who would like to see a character with a katana-based moveset that uses medieval Japanese weaponry (such as shurikens). Even if the West is unfamiliar with him, he would certainly be received well. Takamaru is one of the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 by the Japanese fanbase.
Mega Man:
When it was confirmed that third-party characters were eligible for Smash Bros., there were two characters that came to everyone's mind, Sonic and Mega Man. Mega Man is pretty much the only third-party character that is requested for Smash Bros. Mega Man is loved dearly by Nintendo fans, and in many cases, consider him a honary Nintendo character. Mega Man is highly requested by Smash Bros. fans worldwide. If Smash Bros. 4 is to have to a third-party newcomer, it has to be Mega Man, and what better way to celebrate the series's 25th anniversary than a reveal of him as a newcomer in Smash 4.
Saki:
The appearance of Saki as an Assist Trophy and the release of Sin & Punishment for the Virtual Console made many people think of Saki as a great addition to Smash 4. Sin & Punishment even received a sequel since Brawl's release. Due to the success of the Virtual Console release and his Assist Trophy appearance in Brawl, most S&P and Smash Bros. fans still prefer Saki over his son Isa when the topic of a playable S&P characters comes up. However, a major concern over Saki is that S&P is still very niche and a much smaller series than every other series with a playable character already in Smash Bros. (with the exception of the retro characters). Sakurai seems to think highly of him even remarking that he was highly requested even back during pre-Brawl, and remarking how well Saki fit in with the rest of the Smash Bros. cast despite being an Assist Trophy. There is also Sakurai's love of rail shooters in general. Another advantage of including Saki over Isa besides familiarity and more popularity, is that the Virtual Console release of Sin & Punishment means that people would be able much more able to buy Saki's game than Isa's (which is a retail release).
Mii:
Miis are a phenomenon. The various Mii games (Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Party, Friend Collection) have sold millions upon millions of copies. The idea of a customizable avatar proved to be so popular that even Sony and Microsoft incorporated the concept into their consoles. The Miis are a symbol of Nintendo's resurrection to the top spot in the console market. The Miis have proven to be so popular that they have become regulars in the Mario spinoffs. However, by Smash Bros. fans there is a hesitancy to include them for several reasons. One is that some feel they are not true characters, while others feel that there is not much that could be done with them (aside from making them possibly customizable characters). There is also the matter of whether Sakurai already ruled out the possibility of Mii's being playable in Smash Bros. during Brawl. Mii and Starfy are the two characters I feel the least likely about in relation to the actual Smash Bros. 4. However, they definitely have a very strong resume and they do have a history of fighting (boxing in Wii Sports, fencing in Wii Sports Resort). Even if Miis do not make it as a playable character, I am fully expecting Wuhu Island as a stage in Smash 4.
Starfy:
As with Little Mac and Saki, Starfy was an Assist Trophy in Brawl. Starfy so far has five games in his series, with the latest one having been released outside Japan. This first international release sold very well in North America. A new installment for this franchise is almost a guarantee, so why not add another active series into the playable roster? However, out of all the newcomers I had suggested, Starfy is both the least requested and least likely. Also, there is the possibility that Sakurai himself may not think too highly of the character (possibility due to the character's strong resemblance to Kirby). Evidence to support this rumor is wording on Starfy's Dojo update and the fact that Starfy is one of two Assist Trophies that is able to be KO'd (the other being the 8-bit Lakitu). If there is a character that I will drop from my roster, it would most likely be Starfy.
In regards to possible roster changes:
The three characters on my roster I might drop are Starfy, Mii, or Saki. The characters that I am contemplating on replacing them with would be EAD/Miyamoto's new IP character and a possible "surprise" character addition.
Crowd-Sourcing:
I am going to ask for your opinion in regards to what character I should replace Starfy with. The character I am hoping to replace Starfy with is a character that is not widely requested, yet would have a lot of appeal if placed into Smash Bros. and be received well as a character. My idea would be the Duck Hunt Dog/Laughing Dog from Duck Hunt, but I want to hear other people's ideas in regards to this matter.
- All characters from Brawl return
- Mewtwo and Roy are brought back
- 12 newcomers (Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Black Shadow, Palutena, Medusa, Little Mac, Takamaru, Saki, Starfy, Mii, and Mega Man). Newcomer distribution is equally divided between new series and newcomers for veteran series.
- 49 slots plus random icon (50 slots total I guess).
- 53 total playable characters (a 14 character jump over Brawl).
From Smash 64 to Melee, there was a 14 character increase, and from Melee to Brawl there was a 13 character increase. So this 14 character increase is based off of what I expect at the most.
All Characters From Brawl Return + Mewtwo & Roy brought back:
All of the characters that were introduced in Brawl were received very well and have a large amount of fans. There is generally a lot of hostility to the idea of cuts this time around, and most Smash Bros. fans would rather see the entire Brawl cast brought back. Of the cut Melee characters, Mewtwo and Roy are the ones brought up the most in regards to being brought back for Smash 4, and for many people, seeing these characters return would be a very big deal. They were also both planned for Brawl. There are also many who think Dr. Mario should be brought back as a costume as well (with some even suggesting Pichu as a model swap for Pikachu). This just goes to show how popular Smash Bros.'s cast is and how much personality and charm Sakurai puts into every character he places in.
Ridley:
No brainer for why he was included. He is Samus's arch-nemesis, has been in the Metroid series since the beginning, and has been in almost every game in the series to date. He is also one of the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 by the Western fanbase.
K. Rool:
Another obvious pick. K. Rool has been the main antagonist of most of the Donkey Kong platformer games since Donkey Kong Country. From his three incarnations from the DKC trilogy (as well as his role in DK64), there is a lot for him to draw from in regards to a moveset. He is also incredibly popular and highly requested for Smash Bros. worldwide.
Dixie Kong:
Obvious pick again. Dixie Kong is Nintendo's most iconic female character outside of Samus, Peach, and Zelda. Dixie Kong was one of the main protagonists for two games for the DKC trilogy, and was a playable character in most of the Donkey Kong games after Nintendo 64. She is incredibly popular as well, and is perhaps the most popular female character not yet playable in Smash Bros. Her large ponytail gives her the potential to be a character that has a disjointed hitbox that is not a sword, hammer, or Snake's limbs. She is highly requested by Smash Bros. fans worldwide. DK is Nintendo's biggest series next to Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon, so four playable characters is perfectly sound.
Black Shadow:
Its a shame that F-Zero is the only series that debuted in Smash 64 (aside from Yoshi, which has the least self-identity of the Mario spinoff franchises) is still stuck with only Captain Falcon. Many Smash Bros. fans think its high time the series finally got a newcomer. However, there is also many that are upset that the villain of one of Nintendo's biggest franchises is still a clone of Captain Falcon and want Ganondorf to received a moveset that is more befitting of him (a sword and magic, or possibly Ganon's trident). However, there are also many people that love "Captain Ganondorf" and don't want to see his moveset changed. Sakurai cited this reason (that he did not want to alienate players who loved Ganondorf's Melee moveset) as the reason why Ganondorf was still "Captain Ganondorf" in Brawl. Its from here that there is a very obvious solution. Black Shadow is the main villain of the F-Zero series and Captain Falcon's arch-nemesis, he is also one of the two main characters that people suggest for a F-Zero newcomer (the other being Samurai Goroh). Black Shadow would be a natural fit for the slow, powerful version of Captain Falcon's moveset. By giving Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset to Black Shadow, and by giving Ganondorf his own unique moveset, all parties are happy. Ganondorf gets his own moveset. F-Zero gets a second playable character. "Captain Ganondorf" fans still get to have the slow, powerful Falcon moveset. Everyone wins.
Palutena:
Kid Icarus Uprising is perhaps Sakurai's first big-budget project that was not Kirby or Super Smash Bros. Uprising is also one the most notable upcoming games for the 3DS. Its possible that this game will be for Kid Icarus as Ocarina of Time and Metroid Prime were for their respective series, basically creating a whole new generation of fans who love the series. There is also the fact that there are many who want to see more female characters. Unlike most other female characters, Palutena is actually the one of the most important figures in her series, and she is probably the second most important/notable Kid Icarus character next to Pit. She is so notable that she was the only other KI character aside from Pit that was re-designed for Brawl. There are some that say that she can't be in due to already being a part of Pit's Final Smash, however, considering how much new content is being added to the series as a result of Uprising, it quite likely that there will be a few changes to Pit's moveset. Also, there is a very obvious new Final Smash for Pit:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tl4A6pvr3g Palutena will also have two OVAs centered around her in promotion for Kid Icarus Uprising. I would talk more about Palutena's moveset possibilities (staff, magic), however, I am going to wait until Uprising and the OVAs are released before I can get a much cleared idea what she is capable of. Palutena will probably become one of the most requested characters for Smash 4 after the release of Uprising.
Medusa:
A lot of the things I mentioned in the paragraph for Palutena can be repeated here. She is the third most important character in the Kid Icarus series after Pit and Palutena. Right now she is the most requested female newcomer next to Dixie Kong. Like Palutena, she will be receiving an OVA centered around her to promote Kid Icarus Uprising. There are some that feel that three Kid Icarus characters would be really pushing it, and perhaps so, however, depending on how well Kid Icarus Uprising is received, perhaps it could be warranted, especially considering if both Palutena and Medusa experience a massive surge in requests due to Uprising's success.
Little Mac:
Punch-Out is one of Nintendo's longest running franchises, harkening back all the way to Nintendo's arcade days. Punch-Out for the NES remains to this day one of the most popular and iconic releases for that console (just check out the "Most Popular" listing for the Virtual Console each week and Punch-Out will almost always be in the Top 20). The series was also the brainchild of Genyo Takeda, who was basically the father of the Wii and one of Nintendo's first game designers. The game had a very successful resurrection title for the Wii as well. With five titles under its belt, its high time that the face of the series, Little Mac, is added to Smash Bros. Little Mac is one of the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 by the Western fanbase.
Takamaru:
Nazo no Murasame is often considered the "sister game" to the Legend of Zelda the same way Kid Icarus was to Metroid. Nazo no Murasame is a cult classic in Japan, and is remembered the way Punch-Out NES is here. Takamaru has also been showing up in lately in several games since Brawl, with a NPC role in Captain Rainbow and even the inclusion of a Nazo no Murasame mode in Samurai Warriors 3 (with Takamaru being an unlockable character). There are many who would like to see a character with a katana-based moveset that uses medieval Japanese weaponry (such as shurikens). Even if the West is unfamiliar with him, he would certainly be received well. Takamaru is one of the most requested newcomers for Smash 4 by the Japanese fanbase.
Mega Man:
When it was confirmed that third-party characters were eligible for Smash Bros., there were two characters that came to everyone's mind, Sonic and Mega Man. Mega Man is pretty much the only third-party character that is requested for Smash Bros. Mega Man is loved dearly by Nintendo fans, and in many cases, consider him a honary Nintendo character. Mega Man is highly requested by Smash Bros. fans worldwide. If Smash Bros. 4 is to have to a third-party newcomer, it has to be Mega Man, and what better way to celebrate the series's 25th anniversary than a reveal of him as a newcomer in Smash 4.
Saki:
The appearance of Saki as an Assist Trophy and the release of Sin & Punishment for the Virtual Console made many people think of Saki as a great addition to Smash 4. Sin & Punishment even received a sequel since Brawl's release. Due to the success of the Virtual Console release and his Assist Trophy appearance in Brawl, most S&P and Smash Bros. fans still prefer Saki over his son Isa when the topic of a playable S&P characters comes up. However, a major concern over Saki is that S&P is still very niche and a much smaller series than every other series with a playable character already in Smash Bros. (with the exception of the retro characters). Sakurai seems to think highly of him even remarking that he was highly requested even back during pre-Brawl, and remarking how well Saki fit in with the rest of the Smash Bros. cast despite being an Assist Trophy. There is also Sakurai's love of rail shooters in general. Another advantage of including Saki over Isa besides familiarity and more popularity, is that the Virtual Console release of Sin & Punishment means that people would be able much more able to buy Saki's game than Isa's (which is a retail release).
Mii:
Miis are a phenomenon. The various Mii games (Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Party, Friend Collection) have sold millions upon millions of copies. The idea of a customizable avatar proved to be so popular that even Sony and Microsoft incorporated the concept into their consoles. The Miis are a symbol of Nintendo's resurrection to the top spot in the console market. The Miis have proven to be so popular that they have become regulars in the Mario spinoffs. However, by Smash Bros. fans there is a hesitancy to include them for several reasons. One is that some feel they are not true characters, while others feel that there is not much that could be done with them (aside from making them possibly customizable characters). There is also the matter of whether Sakurai already ruled out the possibility of Mii's being playable in Smash Bros. during Brawl. Mii and Starfy are the two characters I feel the least likely about in relation to the actual Smash Bros. 4. However, they definitely have a very strong resume and they do have a history of fighting (boxing in Wii Sports, fencing in Wii Sports Resort). Even if Miis do not make it as a playable character, I am fully expecting Wuhu Island as a stage in Smash 4.
Starfy:
As with Little Mac and Saki, Starfy was an Assist Trophy in Brawl. Starfy so far has five games in his series, with the latest one having been released outside Japan. This first international release sold very well in North America. A new installment for this franchise is almost a guarantee, so why not add another active series into the playable roster? However, out of all the newcomers I had suggested, Starfy is both the least requested and least likely. Also, there is the possibility that Sakurai himself may not think too highly of the character (possibility due to the character's strong resemblance to Kirby). Evidence to support this rumor is wording on Starfy's Dojo update and the fact that Starfy is one of two Assist Trophies that is able to be KO'd (the other being the 8-bit Lakitu). If there is a character that I will drop from my roster, it would most likely be Starfy.
In regards to possible roster changes:
The three characters on my roster I might drop are Starfy, Mii, or Saki. The characters that I am contemplating on replacing them with would be EAD/Miyamoto's new IP character and a possible "surprise" character addition.
Crowd-Sourcing:
I am going to ask for your opinion in regards to what character I should replace Starfy with. The character I am hoping to replace Starfy with is a character that is not widely requested, yet would have a lot of appeal if placed into Smash Bros. and be received well as a character. My idea would be the Duck Hunt Dog/Laughing Dog from Duck Hunt, but I want to hear other people's ideas in regards to this matter.
Heh, yeah I jumped the gun a bit with Banjo, when his chances went from 0.001% to 0.002%. Nintendo did collaborate with Microsoft-owned Rare on Diddy Kong Racing DS after all. And there was Viva Pinata DS. But yeah, unlikely.
I'm more talking about the others I mentioned, or any you guys can think of. If you don't know what I'm talking about, Nintendo said yesterday that they plan on reviving other publisher's titles on 3DS. With Seaman 3DS just announced, people are speculating about other Sega/Dreamcast franchises like Skies of Arcadia, Jet Set Radio, etc. Some other examples I think Ninty would be interested in are Megaman & Power Stone (Capcom), Chrono Trigger (S-E) and Bomberman (Konami).
My question was relating to that program. If, for example, Nintendo co-developed Bomberman 3DS with Konami, don't you think that would up his chances of getting into Smash Bros?
Banjo's chance has never been increased, not even by the tiniest bit. Smash Bros is a Wii U title too. No way is Microsoft gonna let Rare put their franchise in a Nintendo console game.
Honestly, it'd been cool to see Banjo but...
Dream first party characters:
Mike Jonesssss
Ridley
Mach Rider
Bubbles (Clu Clu Land)
Little Mac
Doc Lewis (Punch Out)
Chibi Robo
Starfy
The Dog (Duck Hunt)
Dream 3rd party:
Mega Man
Slime (DQ)
Simon Belmont
Other possibilities:
Jill (Drill Dozer)
Lyn (Fire Emblem)
Misty (Pokemon)
Jessica (DQ8)
Yangus (DQ8)
Spike (Wrecking Crew)
The Bike From Excitebike
Baby Kraid
Captain N
And for dream stages:
Construction Site (Wrecking Crew)
Port Town (F-Zero)
Airship Fleet (Mario 3)
Lanyaru Desert, find some way to implement the Time Crystal mechanic (Skyward Sword)
Chemical Plant Zone (Sonic 2)
C-Island, has dolphins swimming around that you can KICK THE ASSES OF (StarTropics)
Aircraft Carrier (Sin and Punishment)
Gusty Garden Galaxy (Mario Galaxy)
Dracula's Throne, complete with staircase leading up to it (Castlevania)
Mother Brain's Lair (Metroid)
Odama-themed stage
something Mega Man related, with disappearing blocks and spikes and stuff
Other ideas:
Fighting Mii team battle (uses the Miis you have on your system)
Scrap the level edit idea
Scrap the Subspace Emissary/Adventure mode
No RPG mechanics tacked on please!!!
Effective online play/matchmaking
Return to Melee physics (this is the main one!), make it harder to hold on to the edge, make it less floaty, be able to "shift" with your air dodge, bring back wavedashing but make it a bit easier to do
Board the Platforms/Break the Targets varies between player once again
I'm confused. It's your list, why do you need to consult anyone on it?
Diddy Kong
Banned
I'm glad to see lots of people would want Banjo if he was possible.. :/
I guess it's a prediction list instead of a wish list.
Diddy Kong
Banned
Green Mamba
Member
I still vehemently hate the idea of getting a second F-Zero character after four games and only having him be a reskinned old moveset. I think it'd be almost insulting. It's an excuse for Ganondorf complainers, not an actual gift to F-Zero fans.
The list is basically a culmination of two things:
1. Things that are likely to happen.
2. A list that would have give the most satisfaction to the most Smash fans contained within 50 slots.
One of my own criticisms about my roster was the lack of a newcomer that would be truly unexpected. I am crowd-sourcing for ideas for a good, unexpected character, such as ROB and Mr. Game & Watch. I already mentioned the Duck Hunt Dog (AKA Laughing Dog), but I am curious if anyone has any other ideas, or whether I should simply just leave Starfy on the roster.
Diddy Kong
Banned
Disagree with Impa, Diddy/Dixie team, Ryu, & Zero. Everything else is fine
l don't care for Impa, just want to change Zelda/Sheik. I like idea of Diddy and Dixie team. Ryu... there is NG games on NES, GB, DS and upcoming WiiU and 3DS games. Imo Zero is the best choice from MegaMan franchises for this game.
A character who got his own series only on Nintendo's console. Zero could be mix of Link or some other character with sword and character with gun. Zero have moves for SSB while classic MegaMan don't have any sort of punch, they must radically change gameplay for him.
I wish he'd post more trivia about Brawl, including the reasoning behind the colour schemes for each character like he did for the first game. Could be a nice way to ease people back to the blog.
Okay, I hadn't got around to that list from a couple pages back, so here's mine.
Yep, I got a bit carried away.
Semi-realistic List
1. Diddy & Dixie tag-team
2. Kaptain K Rool
3. Sami
4. Lil Mac
5. Ray MK III
6. Captain Syrup
7. Sukapon
8. Lark/Nester
9. Jiro
10. Claus
11. Takamaru
12. Black Shadow
13. Pacman
14. Bomberman
15. Simon Belmont
::Runners-up::
Assist Trophies
Laughing dog (Players need to avoid crosshair and can jump on ducks, Dog laughs when someone gets hit)
Kamek (Turns all players into giants, or shoots down platforms with his wand, a la Yoshi's Island)
Black Knight (Walks slowly forwards, slashing anyone in his way)
Muddy Mole (Digs holes in the ground that players can fall into)
Wart (Spits bubbles that slow players down when hit)
Ouendan/EBA (Move to the rhythm or take damage)
Tatanga (Harrasses players in his ship)
Skull Kid (Summons the Moon)
Stages
Chibi Robo - Bedroom
Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven) - Remix
Coupe(Stunt Race FX)/Excitebiker/Excitebots/Riders(Wave Race/1080) - Race Track
Spike (Wrecking Crew) - Demolition Building
Mach Rider - Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland
Prince Fluff - Patch Land
Shulk - Gaur Plains
Items
Young Link - Mask item that turns you into Zora/Goron/Deku
Vaati - Four Sword item that gives player 4 clones to control
Isa/Kachi (S&P)- Cannon Sword item that allows players to slash and shoot
Mona (WW) - Scooter item that players can ride and run into people
Fawful (M&L) - Vacuum Helmet item that allows player to fly anywhere on the stage
Other
Mii - Replacement of Fighting Polygon Team
Ganondorf - Bloody well gets a new moveset
DKC - Rideable Animal Buddies, and maybe Tag Team Mode where you play as any two characters
And finally, the most fun part...
Never-gonna-happen List (In order from never to NEVER!)
1. Lark/Nester (Pilotwings)
2. Cranky Kong (DKC)
3. Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk)
4. Flint (Mother)
5. Sturm (Advance Wars)
6. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
7. Pious Augustus (Eternal Darkness)
8. Maxwell (Scribblenauts)
9. Earthworm Jim
10. Banjo-Kazooie
Yep, I got a bit carried away.
Semi-realistic List
1. Diddy & Dixie tag-team
2. Kaptain K Rool
3. Sami
4. Lil Mac
5. Ray MK III
6. Captain Syrup
7. Sukapon
8. Lark/Nester
9. Jiro
10. Claus
11. Takamaru
12. Black Shadow
13. Pacman
14. Bomberman
15. Simon Belmont
::Runners-up::
Assist Trophies
Laughing dog (Players need to avoid crosshair and can jump on ducks, Dog laughs when someone gets hit)
Kamek (Turns all players into giants, or shoots down platforms with his wand, a la Yoshi's Island)
Black Knight (Walks slowly forwards, slashing anyone in his way)
Muddy Mole (Digs holes in the ground that players can fall into)
Wart (Spits bubbles that slow players down when hit)
Ouendan/EBA (Move to the rhythm or take damage)
Tatanga (Harrasses players in his ship)
Skull Kid (Summons the Moon)
Stages
Chibi Robo - Bedroom
Karate Joe (Rhythm Heaven) - Remix
Coupe(Stunt Race FX)/Excitebiker/Excitebots/Riders(Wave Race/1080) - Race Track
Spike (Wrecking Crew) - Demolition Building
Mach Rider - Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland
Prince Fluff - Patch Land
Shulk - Gaur Plains
Items
Young Link - Mask item that turns you into Zora/Goron/Deku
Vaati - Four Sword item that gives player 4 clones to control
Isa/Kachi (S&P)- Cannon Sword item that allows players to slash and shoot
Mona (WW) - Scooter item that players can ride and run into people
Fawful (M&L) - Vacuum Helmet item that allows player to fly anywhere on the stage
Other
Mii - Replacement of Fighting Polygon Team
Ganondorf - Bloody well gets a new moveset
DKC - Rideable Animal Buddies, and maybe Tag Team Mode where you play as any two characters
And finally, the most fun part...
Never-gonna-happen List (In order from never to NEVER!)
1. Lark/Nester (Pilotwings)
2. Cranky Kong (DKC)
3. Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk)
4. Flint (Mother)
5. Sturm (Advance Wars)
6. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
7. Pious Augustus (Eternal Darkness)
8. Maxwell (Scribblenauts)
9. Earthworm Jim
10. Banjo-Kazooie
Diddy Kong
Banned
Fair enough, but why do you want Diddy & Dixie together if you want Zelda separate? Jw
Diddy alone is weak or l don't know to play with him . Now seriously, l don't have anything against teamed characters like Ice Climber just don't like when l need to change them during a battle. It's just something that l would change. Maybe we can have Samus and Zero Suit Samus separate like Link/Toon Link.
ps sorry for my poor english.
. Now seriously, l don't have anything against teamed characters like Ice Climber just don't like when l need to change them during a battle. It's just something that l would change. Maybe we can have Samus and Zero Suit Samus separate like Link/Toon Link.ps sorry for my poor english.
Nocturnowl
Member
Call me cuckoo crazy but I don't think that Ryu Hayabusa is that far out a character choice from third party standings, Team Ninja did make Metroid Other M, give Samus and Ridley cameos in DoA dimensions which Ryu is of course a part of and that NG3 is one of the few known Wii U releases. I mean it probably wont happen but it's not that long a shot as far as third parties go. Plus the original trilogy are NES games.
Also Cranky Kong appears surprisingly often in lists, funny that considering he merely speaks of his grandeur yet never shows it, he could make a great joke character but i'm solidly behind K.Rool and Dixie for DK series, anymore would be pushing it.
HotGarbage
Member
That snowman is terrifying
"However, what's the word... it's tremendous. How did we make this?"
Through delays and pouring effort into disappointing single player modes.
Exterminieren
Banned
JAPAN TIME WILL RETURN. 2013.
As for my characters...
1) Captain Syrup
2) King K. Rool
3) Shulk
4) Ghirahim
5) Takumaru
6) Genesect/ Gen VI Mascot (matches up better timewise than Zoroark)
7) Paper Mario
8) Medusa
9) Claus
10) Saki
11) Little Mac
12) Isaac
Third Parties...
1) Megaman
2) Simon Belmont
3) Professor Layton
As for my characters...
1) Captain Syrup
2) King K. Rool
3) Shulk
4) Ghirahim
5) Takumaru
6) Genesect/ Gen VI Mascot (matches up better timewise than Zoroark)
7) Paper Mario
8) Medusa
9) Claus
10) Saki
11) Little Mac
12) Isaac
Third Parties...
1) Megaman
2) Simon Belmont
3) Professor Layton
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
The gameplay of Melee would be nice. . . .
I play a modded version of Brawl sometimes, + or something, but it alters the mechanics a bit and I enjoy it a lot. But I play Brawl never if I can avoid it, if I can trick them into placing the Melee disc in the drive. .
Our realistic lists are fairly common on some points this time around. I hope that means we will be pleasantly surprised when we get random characters getting revealed.
And I thought my insomnia was bad enough...
Random idea: Sandbag deserves his own in-depth story mini-game this time around.
And I thought my insomnia was bad enough...Random idea: Sandbag deserves his own in-depth story mini-game this time around.
Green Mamba
Member
I can't help but feel that when the game is properly unveiled there's going to be a character reveal like Snake for the Brawl unveiling that completely throws us for a loop and makes us rethink everything.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Go figure, Sakurai finds the Dojo more imposing than the actual game. Seems like a familiar feeling.
Black-Wind
Member
The brawl reveal was great in that it had at least 2 characters I never saw anyone talk about.
I'm fully sure that that's gonna happen again.
Starwolf_UK
Member
So given how most people blocked Golden Sun: Dark Dawn from their memory (a prime example being a character list posted earlier showing young Issac rather than the adult one) and sales-wise it didn't do too great I guess that kills any chance of a stage or a character unless we see Golden Sun 4 at E3 or something...
Hopefully Sakuraba gets the chance to do another arrangement of music.
Also I'd like more lesser known franchise cameos. The music was a good way to do some but I mean things like Excitebots randomly showing up an F-Zero stage would be amusing.
Hopefully Sakuraba gets the chance to do another arrangement of music.
Also I'd like more lesser known franchise cameos. The music was a good way to do some but I mean things like Excitebots randomly showing up an F-Zero stage would be amusing.
Does Sakurai even know who this is?
I can see an assist trophy that is a mix of Mr.Resetii and the Ultimate Chimera working out.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Which two? Because the only one I can think of is Zero Suit Samus, and that's because it's such a weird choice.
Most of the classic Mega Man games were on Nintendo systems and he's recognized as a NES iconic character.
Saki from Sin & Punishment has a gun and sword too. Just saying.
Mega Man has many kinds of weapons (yes, including a sword from Mega Man 8). He shouldn't have a problem getting a moveset for Smash.
Samus got in Smash Bros with no problem, this shouldn't be a big issue for Mega Man either. (Not impyling Mega Man would be a Samus clone but you get the point)
- Status