Support NeoGAF

[Haint]

Unless MS's throwing a curve ball with Intel and/or Nvidia, there's only so much they can do. Navi is still widely expected to be GCN based with its 64CU 4096SP hard limit, so MS can not simply build a bigger chip with "more cores". This means their tweaks will be limited to clock speeds and RAM (capacity and speed). They're both almost certainly going to use the full 64CU chip cause anything less would require some pretty ridiculous clocks and cooling to achieve the "better than Stadia" 13-14+ TF's they're reportedly targeting. It would be quite difficult in a console priced and sized box. Given the enormous performance penalties Nvidia's $1400 GPU's incur from Raytracing, I don't expect either company is going to waste die space on dedicated RT hardware in a $400-$500 console, that seems a fool's errand.

 

[Gavon West]

How would any of those insiders know the Xbox Next is way "more advanced" though? Mark Cerny didn't give any hard spec numbers.

Well, I mean, even game enthusiasts have educated guesses about what next gen would offer and for probably the second time in all of gamedom they were right, according to what Sony announced.

Can you imagine what Microsoft and a few insiders must know, being so much closer to the actual creation of these consoles?

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Games>>>> More power.

Xbox can give me a console with plutonium if they want, but it does not help if you do not have games or excellent exclusives thats they need.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

The most shocking is...

Sony didn't revealed specs, only Arch, but Insiders are 100% sure Xbox is stronger

Why is it shocking? Insiders are called insiders for a reason. We are just outsiders. They know more then you and I. Who really knows though?

 

[Iorv3th]

Is his inside source misterxmedia or timdog?

 

[JustP_Gaming]

If the rumors are true and their weaker console is 4 teraflops versus 12+ teraflops for the higher end console, the lowest common denominator for third-party games are going to be crap.

A true next gen console should have the baseline being with the highest spec at launch, otherwise they won't take advantage of the full potential sadly.

Youre forgetting or are not aware Microsofts dev kits allow developers to make games for the highest denominator and with the push of a button literaly scale down to fit the specs of the lowest denominator. It makes developing for 2 different spec'd machines a piece of cake, but what do I know.

 

[thelastword]

Can't wait for MS to confirm this when they announce the console. I'll definitely come back here to see the reactions

Is MS producing the SONY PS5? How can they know what Sony's final Spec is going to be......The only thing MS can know is that Anaconda will be more powerful than their digital console or if they want to launch 1 year later than PS5......

Pretty fing obvious xbox wont make the same mistake again.
Ofc the next xbox will be more powerfull then the next playstation.

What mistake? Was XBOX-ONE being less powerful than PS4 it's problem? So why didn't XBONEX fix that?

So prior to PS4's reveal, you had articles saying XBOX-ONE would be more powerful. then closer to release, tehy backtracked a bit and it was coined the most balanced console.....Then XBONEX was decalred the most powerful, true 4k machine, because no console had done 4k native before it .....It also had the highest quality pixels ever seen...Now this machine is going to be the most powerful console.....For sure, over what they know of, their XBONEX....If it was not more powerful than their last console Something would be wrong, because they have no idea what final PS5 kit will be........MS and Sony launching in the same year has never placed MS ahead in terms of power.....

Ha ha, isn't this the same Colin Moriarty who said the majority of devs were not excited by PRO and would not develop for it??? What a track record....

 

[killatopak]

I mean they could activate the hidden 2nd gpu.

 

[Klayzer]

Who would have thought Mark Cerny disclosing a few features and confirming Zen 2/Navi would ruffle so many feathers in the Microsoft camp.

I know right. No specs but MS will be more powerful because only a fool will believe they will not be. Still very entertaining reading all the low key shade.

 

[Hellblueboy]

Show, don't tell.

 

[captainraincoat]

No specs announced and it's already getting people hot and bothered

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Unless MS's throwing a curve ball with Intel and/or Nvidia, there's only so much they can do. Navi is still widely expected to be GCN based with its 64CU 4096SP hard limit, so MS can not simply build a bigger chip with "more cores". This means their tweaks will be limited to clock speeds and RAM (capacity and speed). They're both almost certainly going to use the full 64CU chip cause anything less would require some pretty ridiculous clocks and cooling to achieve the "better than Stadia" 13-14+ TF's they're reportedly targeting. It would be quite difficult in a console priced and sized box. Given the enormous performance penalties Nvidia's $1400 GPU's incur from Raytracing, I don't expect either company is going to waste die space on dedicated RT hardware in a $400-$500 console, that seems a fool's errand.

Didn't MS do something special with the cooling in the X? I could see MS going for a physically bigger box and power supply on the outside. Look at the og PS4. The thing was a marvel compared to the xbox and its huge PSU brick. Stronger and integrated PSU while much smaller. But at the cost of noise. I could see Sony going the aestheic route again, while MS goes for the bigger box but a little more powerful.

 

[CJY]

This was part of my concern for Sony the moment they sealed their lips and went on this quiet news front. I can believe it because Phil Spencer has a mission to turn the tables around so that the XBOX is a 100 million seller and not Playstation. If they really have acquired 3 more studios by the time E3 comes then I would put more trust in this rumor as Microsoft really do have the finances to take the hit on hardware and more than make up for it in software and services. They also have the business acumen to get great deals on technology. Remember when they fucked Sony on the 360 using a loop hole in IBM's contract on future projects?

PlayStation 5 is going to sell at least 100million regardless of what Xbox does, it's not a zero-sum game, you heard it here first. More at 11.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

UUUUUULTRA Rumble 8K

 

[CJY]

Didn't MS do something special with the cooling in the X? I could see MS going for a physically bigger box and power supply on the outside. Look at the og PS4. The thing was a marvel compared to the xbox and its huge PSU brick. Stronger and integrated PSU while much smaller. But at the cost of noise. I could see Sony going the aestheic route again, while MS goes for the bigger box but a little more powerful.

Oh PS4 was a marvel of engineering. The noise was actually not all that bad considering. Would be great if Sony just used better thermal compound this time, or engineer in the use of liquid metal, that would be awesome. I don't expect to see a vapour chamber in PS5, but anybodies guess is as good as useless right now.

If the murmurings about a "AI-engine" in the next Xbox are true, I can see a massive USP there.

 

[Bernkastel]

Again you can have a 100 studios doesnt mean dick if you got nothing to showcase...this fantasy ass fantasy land xbox owners are living in with this o well they just bought 50 studios! Ok 50 either going out of business or havnt produced a single hit in the last decade.... al im saying is ms at this point have been nothing but talk lets see some fucking results.

I see you leave in a fantasy land, where studios take a year to develop a game. Probably the only thing, they will show this year is from Ninja Theory, but that does not mean the other studios were bought to hang out with Phil.

 

[Bogroll]

PlayStation 5 is going to sell at least 100million regardless of what Xbox does, it's not a zero-sum game, you heard it here first. More at 11.

Steady on sunshine, i wouldn't bet against it but remember the Ps3 and how the Ps2 dominated sales.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Steady on sunshine, i wouldn't bet against it but remember the Ps3 and how the Ps2 dominated sales.

PS1 dominated sales too ... and once it released and especially got its first price cut PS3 dominated sales too (vs Xbox 360) worldwide...

 

[Bogroll]

PS1 dominated sales too ... and once it released and especially got its first price cut PS3 dominated sales too (vs Xbox 360) worldwide...

CJY said 100 million sales, Ps3 around 86 million and i was just pointing that out. Ps3 dominated sales mmmm wasn't 360 around 85 million.

 

[Leonidas]

They're both almost certainly going to use the full 64CU chip

If the latest Navi rumor is true then 64 CU in 2020 consoles is a pipe-dream. 48-56 seems more realistic, with one console having less than the other as has been the case with both sets of current gen consoles.

 

[nowhat]

For someone in a position of power this seems rather desperate. "Its going to be good honest you need to believe us"... um ok?

Uhh... remember the "Project Scorpio" reveal at E3 2016 (full year and a half before release)? That was way more vague than this Cerny interview? Was that desperate then?

 

[Leonidas]

Uhh... remember the "Project Scorpio" reveal at E3 2016 (full year and a half before release)? That was way more vague than this Cerny interview? Was that desperate then?

"we gave the SOC 6 teraflops"
"320 GB/s memory bandwidth"
"8 CPU Cores" (okay that was vague)
clear picture of 12 GB GDDR5 on render
"World's most powerful console"

Clear detailed specs in the most crucial areas of that generation of consoles. The full memory spec was revealed in that video. The GPU power was revealed in that video.

At E3 2016 we had actual numbers for Scorpio of two key components.

A few days ago Sony gave us this.

Removed from Xbox LeakAnnounced PS5 Spec

CPU: Custom 8 cores / 16 Threads Zen 2 CPU
GPU: Custom NAVI @12+ teraflops
Memory: 16GB GDDR6
Storage: 1TB NVMe SSD @ 1+GB/s
DirectX Raytracing + MS AI

0 numbers from key components from PS5 reveal.

 

[demigod]

Uhh... remember the "Project Scorpio" reveal at E3 2016 (full year and a half before release)? That was way more vague than this Cerny interview? Was that desperate then?

Not as desperate as announcing next gen after you just dropped a $500 console in less than a year.

 

[jonnyp]

How can it be more advanced when they're using the same tech? Maybe it will be more powerful, but that will be marginal unless they want to make a 700 dollar machine.

 

[Leonidas]

How can it be more advanced when they're using the same tech?

See X vs. Pro.
More GPU cores, higher clocks, more RAM, more features, who knows.

 

[ethomaz]

Why is it shocking? Insiders are called insiders for a reason. We are just outsiders. They know more then you and I. Who really knows though?

Like XB1 being stronger than PS4???

 

[FranXico]

"we gave the SOC 6 teraflops"
"320 GB/s memory bandwidth"
"8 CPU Cores" (okay that was vague)
clear picture of 12 GB GDDR5 on render
"World's most powerful console"

Clear detailed specs in the most crucial areas of that generation of consoles. The full memory spec was revealed in that video. The GPU power was revealed in that video.

At E3 2016 we had actual numbers for Scorpio of two key components.

A few days ago Sony gave us this.

Removed from Xbox LeakAnnounced PS5 Spec


0 numbers from key components from PS5 reveal.

Explicit specs (designed to exceed those they already knew of the PS4 Pro) are independent of the degree of "desperation". And it did take one year longer to release...

Sony is trying to keep their specs secret until the last minute in order to make it harder for the competition to undercut them. By the time it is known, it will cost the others a bit more time to prepare and adjust.

 

[FranXico]

It also needs to be said, this kind of obsession with "having the bigger stick" really comes across as petty and attracts the worst kind of fans.

 

[Kagey K]

It also needs to be said, this kind of obsession with "having the bigger stick" really comes across as petty and attracts the worst kind of fans.

The 1080p vs 900 really helped fuel the wars at the beginning of this gen, when exclusives didn't matter, and we buy mostly 3rd party games, so we should buy them on the system that plays them better.

Now it's a completely different story and no matter who has the graphical edge people will always move the goalposts for their team.

It's always a losing arguement, so to hell with it.

I really do hope MS puts out a beast of a machine and they find success, because without competition, the online space would still be back in 2005.

 

[Panajev2001a]

CJY said 100 million sales, Ps3 around 86 million and i was just pointing that out. Ps3 dominated sales mmmm wasn't 360 around 85 million.

PS3 came out about a year after Xbox 360... unless you mean to tell me that in that year on the market Xbox 360 sold really poorly globally... and even then... .

 

[Kagey K]

PS3 came out about a year after Xbox 360... unless you mean to tell me that in that year on the market Xbox 360 sold really poorly globally... and even then... .

It was very supply constrained the first year on market, in case you don't actually remember. Even the gimped pack was sold out everywhere. That was when everyone was calling it Xbox 1.5

Then when people saw what PS3 offered and their price it got even harder to find.

If they had the production capacity they have now, Sony would have never got close.

 

[Leonidas]

It also needs to be said, this kind of obsession with "having the bigger stick" really comes across as petty and attracts the worst kind of fans.

Interesting statement to make after your previous post where you pretend to put yourself in both companies shoes and gave a questionable view on the matter.

 

[Mistershine.]

What's the difference in manufacturing cost between GPU generations? If MS actually are using Arcturus, which is rumoured to release in 2020, could they potentially get a decent increase in power for a relatively small increase in price?

 

[jonnyp]

See X vs. Pro.
More GPU cores, higher clocks, more RAM, more features, who knows.

It's not more advanced. It is more powerful. They are using the same AMD tech. The GCN architecture is limited to 4096 SP/64CU.

And my point stands. If MS are making it more powerful it will be more expensive than the PS5 for the customer or MS will have to take a huge loss on each console. If it is more powerful, IMO it will be marginal since they are going to release in the same timeframe next year and there is only so much they can do with die sizes, yields and economics.

 

[ethomaz]

It was very supply constrained the first year on market, in case you don't actually remember. Even the gimped pack was sold out everywhere. That was when everyone was calling it Xbox 1.5

Then when people saw what PS3 offered and their price it got even harder to find.

If they had the production capacity they have now, Sony would have never got close.

360 only did what it did due the year head start.

If both were launched together even with the disastrous PS3 launch 360 won't be ahead in sales at any moment.

Launch aligned PS3 was always comfortable ahead 360.

 

[Kagey K]

360 only did what it did due the year head start.

If both were launched together even with the disastrous PS3 launch 360 won't even be ahead in sales.

Unfortunately that's conjecture and there is no way to prove it either way, so it's not a road worth taking,

All we have are historical sales, with no way to judge if true or not.

All I know is when the PS3 launched you couldn't find a 360 anywhere and there was a challenge if you could find a PS3 on the shelf they would give you 20.00 and many people won.

 

[FranXico]

Interesting statement to make after your previous post where you pretend to put yourself in both companies shoes and gave a questionable view on the matter.

Questionable because it is a simple explanation (strategic business decisions) that avoids calling either company desperate?

Sorry for not agreeing to your favorite narrative.

 

[ethomaz]

Unfortunately that's conjecture and there is no way to prove it either way, so it's not a road worth taking,

All we have are historical sales, with no way to judge if true or not.

All I know is when the PS3 launched you couldn't find a 360 anywhere and there was a challenge if you could find a PS3 on the shelf they would give you 20.00 and many people won.

?

Launch aligned PS3 was always ahead 360.

I'm not making any conjecture... it is a fact.

The beneficie of a year head start did wonders to 360... it was a year where it was the only new console that you could buy and even so it sold lower than PS3 that faced strong competition and a disastrous price.

 

[Kagey K]

?

Launch aligned PS3 was always ahead 360.

I'm not making any conjecture... it is a fact.

The conjecture is that if they launched at the same time.

Had they launched at same time, sales may have changed one way or another. (Especially if you assume they both produced the same amount of consoles)

It didn't happen that way, and therefore will never be an accurate comparison.

 

[Leonidas]

It's not more advanced.

I love these definitive statements made about two boxes no one here knows the complete specs of

 

[Leonidas]

Questionable because it is a simple explanation (strategic business decisions) that avoids calling either company desperate?

Sorry for not agreeing to your favorite narrative.

Questionable because you make assumptions that can't be proven.

 

[ethomaz]

The conjecture is that if they launched at the same time.

Had they launched at same time, sales may have changed one way or another. (Especially if you assume they both produced the same amount of consoles)

It didn't happen that way, and therefore will never be an accurate comparison.

PS3 launch had the 360 being sold together why do you believe it will be lower than what it was?

The opposite the only one to have lower sales at launch was 360 if they both released at the same year.

PlayStation brand is way stronger than Xbox.

Again launch aligned PS3 was always ahead 360 if they were launched together the difference should be bigger and 360 momentum never happening.

The best MS strategy was having a year head start.

Same can be said about this generation if XB1 had a year head start over PS4 it should be considered a sucess today with better base solidified.

 

[Kagey K]

PS3 launch had the 360 being sold together why do you believe it will be lower than what it was?

The opposite the only one to have lower sales at launch was 360 if they both released at the same year.

PlayStation brand is way stronger than Xbox.

Again launch aligned PS3 was always ahead 360.

Not quite, but getting there.

You are talking about a console that went from 120 mil to 80. Had they been launched together that could have been 50 or 60. The fact they launched far enough apart people didn't feel like they had to make a choice, because they could get them in 2 separate seasons.

This time they launched within weeks of each other and people chose a side. Never looking back.

You can launch aligned all you want, but the sales would have even been different if they launched within weeks of each other.

Again conjecture, it's one of those thing we will never know.

 

[ethomaz]

Not quite, but getting there.

You are talking about a console that went from 120 mil to 80. Had they been launched together that could have been 50 or 60. The fact they launched far enough apart people didn't feel like they had to make a choice, because they could get them in 2 separate seasons.

This time they launched within weeks of each other and people chose a side. Never looking back.

You can launch aligned all you want, but the sales would have even been different if they launched within weeks of each other.

Again conjecture, it's one of those thing we will never know.

We know... launch aligned PS3 was always ahead 360. 360 sales were partly a result of that year head start.

Launching at same year it will only harm MS side.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It was very supply constrained the first year on market, in case you don't actually remember. Even the gimped pack was sold out everywhere. That was when everyone was calling it Xbox 1.5

Then when people saw what PS3 offered and their price it got even harder to find.

If they had the production capacity they have now, Sony would have never got close.

I do remember, but I do also remember that it was not a year where PS3 had to claw back a gap of like 200,000 units in an entire year everywhere. Xbox was also in this situation with reduced capacity because they rushed the console out like crazy and paid the price for it, all trying to get it out before PS3.

Even that generation with a terribly handled launch and tons of problems with third party games in the first year, PS managed to get back near the top (and it's comeback allowed PS4 to have more than just a fighting chance)... as it was selling faster than Xbox 360 was worldwide. I do not see Sony taking a financial risk like they did with PS3 and in that case such a result would still be a big success.

 

[Kagey K]

We know... launch aligned PS3 was always ahead 360.

Launching at same year it will only harm MS side.

360 sales were partly a result of that year head start.

This entire thing has just proven my point.

I said sales would be different, I didn't say how or for who, just that the metrics wouldn't be the same.

In reality, who cares? But for some it's just a goalpost moving competition.

Yay!?

 

[Bogroll]

PS3 came out about a year after Xbox 360... unless you mean to tell me that in that year on the market Xbox 360 sold really poorly globally... and even then... .

No 86 million v 85 million thats not dominating. I'm just pointing out Ps3 did not sell 100 million. People should remember tomorrow isn't promised.
Don't want get to involved in your console war.

 

[Kagey K]

I do remember, but I do also remember that it was not a year where PS3 had to claw back a gap of like 200,000 units in an entire year everywhere. Xbox was also in this situation with reduced capacity because they rushed the console out like crazy and paid the price for it, all trying to get it out before PS3.

Even that generation with a terribly handled launch and tons of problems with third party games in the first year, PS managed to get back near the top (and it's comeback allowed PS4 to have more than just a fighting chance)... as it was selling faster than Xbox 360 was worldwide. I do not see Sony taking a financial risk like they did with PS3 and in that case such a result would still be a big success.

I don't think much of the PS4 success can be handed to the PS3.

It does speak to Sony's pure grit, but I don't think anyone at Sony will ever call the PS3 a success.

 

[Haint]

If the latest Navi rumor is true then 64 CU in 2020 consoles is a pipe-dream. 48-56 seems more realistic, with one console having less than the other as has been the case with both sets of current gen consoles.

Considering Pro runs at ~900Mhz and X around 1.2Ghz, even if we allow for 1.5Ghz on the new node, 48CU's would barely be over 9TF while 56 would barely cross 10.5TF. Both scenarios conflict with the recent reports they plan to surpass Stadia's 10.7TF.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

One thing is certain, regardless of the next Xbox is 10mhz faster or 30tf faster...

They need to come in at the same or cheaper price. Nobody will give two shiny shits if it's more expensive.