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NFL Off-Season |OT3| Josh Freeman is fat and eats too much food. Fat. Fatty. Fatfat.

F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Godslay said:
Even if he is say 85% physically healthy he will be better than most of the QBs especially with the general garbage that is out there right now.

Take his 2010 stats and reduce them by 15%, this is what you end up with:

4000 yards, 28 TDs, 14 int.

This would still put him in or around the top ten for QBs.

Add into the fact that Peyton's main advantage as a QB is the mental aspect of his game and I see him doing just fine if he is able physically to do the job.
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you can't put a % on health and just reduce the stats by that much. peyton mannings main advantage is his knowledge, but all the knowledge in the world is useless without the arm to back it up. ken dorsey was a great football mind and he fucking sucked in the NFL because he didn't have the arm strength.

without full arm strength, peyton is going to find that suddenly he can't fit those tight throws in like he used to. a 15% drop in peytons arm strength/accuracy is going to be much worse than just a 15% drop in his statistics
 
G

Godslay

Banned
FrenchMovieTheme said:
you can't put a % on health and just reduce the stats by that much. peyton mannings main advantage is his knowledge, but all the knowledge in the world is useless without the arm to back it up. ken dorsey was a great football mind and he fucking sucked in the NFL because he didn't have the arm strength.

without full arm strength, peyton is going to find that suddenly he can't fit those tight throws in like he used to. a 15% drop in peytons arm strength/accuracy is going to be much worse than just a 15% drop in his statistics
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He's making all of his short and intermediate throws with accuracy and "zip" from what I have read. The problem is with his deep ball. It's not really so much as a problem, just that he doesn't have the distance that he once had. Which in the grand scheme of things is fine really considering the deep ball isn't thrown very often over the duration of a game. This 15% reduction was used to show that even with a slight reduction in his stats he is still a top ten guy.
 
S

squicken

Member
chuckddd said:
Jaws has Rivers as #7. Ben, Brady, Brees, Manning, Manning, and Rodgers are left.
Click to expand...

Peyton should not be on this list. He missed last year and his health is completely unknown at this point. Elway might be better for all anyone knows

Rivers right where he belongs. Both he and Cutler are on the cusp of being elite but aren't quite there
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
squicken said:
Peyton should not be on this list. He missed last year and his health is completely unknown at this point. Elway might be better for all anyone knows

Rivers right where he belongs. Both he and Cutler are on the cusp of being elite but aren't quite there
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's silly to knock Cam for only doing it for 1 year or drop Stafford for never staying healthy until last season but then to keep pretending like Peyton is an elite quarterback after hes missed the entire season with a major injury is crazy.

Rivers is AFC Romo. Stats say they are great and they are both good enough to carry their teams even when the rest of the roster has major flaws across the board. And they'll both do really stupid things that cost their games too.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
I love how Schaub is vastly superior to Cutler statistically but no one will ever call him "on the cusp" of being elite.

edit: Matt Ryan is better also!
 
G

Godslay

Banned
squicken said:
Peyton should not be on this list. He missed last year and his health is completely unknown at this point. Elway might be better for all anyone knows

Rivers right where he belongs. Both he and Cutler are on the cusp of being elite but aren't quite there
Click to expand...

I don't really think it is an unknown. They've had practices open to the media, in which he has thrown a variety of passes. It's not behind closed doors, plus public practices are just around the corner irc.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Godslay said:
I don't really think it is an unknown. They've had practices open to the media, in which he has thrown a variety of passes. It's not behind closed doors, plus public practices are just around the corner irc.
Click to expand...

It is totally unknown. Practice is one thing. How is he going to hold up the first time somebody crushes him on a blindside sack?
 
S

squicken

Member
wienke said:
I love how Schaub is vastly superior to Cutler statistically but no one will ever call him "on the cusp" of being elite.

edit: Matt Ryan is better also!
Click to expand...

Schaub is a total system guy. Kubiak manages him just like Harbs manages Alex. Schaub is better than Alex but he wouldn't rack up these numbers in another offense. He also has Andre and Arian. Cutler hasn't had a WR who would even make GB's practice squad

This is Schaub's last year on his contract, and I doubt he gets close to elite money.

lol Cowardly. Let's ask any ATL fan who he would rather have
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Godslay said:
He's making all of his short and intermediate throws with accuracy and "zip" from what I have read. The problem is with his deep ball. It's not really so much as a problem, just that he doesn't have the distance that he once had. Which in the grand scheme of things is fine really considering the deep ball isn't thrown very often over the duration of a game. This 15% reduction was used to show that even with a slight reduction in his stats he is still a top ten guy.
Click to expand...

everyone is making all the short and intermediate throws in mini-camps. everyone looks great in training camp. if peyton is throwing these darts week 1 and back to his old self then i'll have to eat crow. i just don't think he's going to have the same velocity and accuracy he once did! now maybe the broncos don't need him to be peyton manning from 5 years ago or whatever and that's fine, i think he could still be decently productive, but i don't think he is a top 10 qb again until he proves it
 
G

goldlion054

Member
Slo said:
People keep asking me if I've heard about the signings the Wild made. I tell them that I'm an American, that I don't give a shit about hockey, and they should go back to where they came from and take their shitty Eskimo sport with them!

USA! USA! USA!
Click to expand...

You make more sense every day
 
B

bionic77

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
everyone is making all the short and intermediate throws in mini-camps. everyone looks great in training camp. if peyton is throwing these darts week 1 and back to his old self then i'll have to eat crow. i just don't think he's going to have the same velocity and accuracy he once did! now maybe the broncos don't need him to be peyton manning from 5 years ago or whatever and that's fine, i think he could still be decently productive, but i don't think he is a top 10 qb again until he proves it
Click to expand...
I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. He has earned it.

I wouldn't fault anyone but the Broncos for rolling the dice on Peyton. I only hold it against them because I am religious and Know that God holds a grudge when you mess with his kids. Perfect example. Pats have been cursed since they cheated his son in 2004 AFC.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
I H8 Memes said:
this could all just be a smokescreen though. if not I would consider it worrying that he is still having trouble this far along.
Click to expand...
They were saying he could barely throw the ball at all 6 months ago.

Godslay said:
He's making all of his short and intermediate throws with accuracy and "zip" from what I have read. The problem is with his deep ball. It's not really so much as a problem, just that he doesn't have the distance that he once had. Which in the grand scheme of things is fine really considering the deep ball isn't thrown very often over the duration of a game. This 15% reduction was used to show that even with a slight reduction in his stats he is still a top ten guy.
Click to expand...

If short and intermediate throws were enough Matt Ryan would be a top 3 QB.
 
G

Godslay

Banned
FrenchMovieTheme said:
everyone is making all the short and intermediate throws in mini-camps. everyone looks great in training camp. if peyton is throwing these darts week 1 and back to his old self then i'll have to eat crow. i just don't think he's going to have the same velocity and accuracy he once did! now maybe the broncos don't need him to be peyton manning from 5 years ago or whatever and that's fine, i think he could still be decently productive, but i don't think he is a top 10 qb again until he proves it
Click to expand...

You could be right. At this point it is entirely guesswork. The thing is that him looking good in training camp is a positive sign coming back from major surgery. Whereas it is expected that other QBs should look great in camp not coming back from injury.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Godslay said:
You could be right. At this point it is entirely guesswork. The thing is that him looking good in training camp is a positive sign coming back from major surgery. Whereas it is expected that other QBs should look great in camp not coming back from injury.
Click to expand...

agreed. doesn't matter if they said he looks good or bad at this point, we will all find out very soon. and i just realized we play the broncos in the 3rd pre-season game so i can't wait for the "AND PEYPEY PLAYS THE TEAM HE SPURNED! OR DID HE? HARBAUGH SAYS THEY NEVER WANTED PEYPEY!"
 
S

squicken

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
agreed. doesn't matter if they said he looks good or bad at this point, we will all find out very soon. and i just realized we play the broncos in the 3rd pre-season game so i can't wait for the "AND PEYPEY PLAYS THE TEAM HE SPURNED! OR DID HE? HARBAUGH SAYS THEY NEVER WANTED PEYPEY!"
Click to expand...

This isn't a question. Harbs wanted him. Harbs knew no one else in the league wanted Alex. Harbs got turned down. Alex was there waiting
 
G

Godslay

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
They were saying he could barely throw the ball at all 6 months ago.



If short and intermediate throws were enough Matt Ryan would be a top 3 QB.
Click to expand...

How often do QBs go deep? 5 times a game? It's not very often. If Ryan could hit the deep ball and play a little better under disruptive defensive pressure, I'm sure you would see him be more successful.

Manning has better pocket presence and mobility than Ryan does at this point. His deep ball isn't entirely broken, it's just not as deep or with the same zip as it used to be. Probably why he is getting the 85% tag. The thing is he has plenty of time between now and week one (Steelers no less), to get things working correctly.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Godslay said:
How often do QBs go deep? 5 times a game? It's not very often. If Ryan could hit the deep ball and play a little better under disruptive defensive pressure, I'm sure you would see him be more successful.

Manning has better pocket presence and mobility than Ryan does at this point. His deep ball isn't entirely broken, it's just not as deep or with the same zip as it used to be. Probably why he is getting the 85% tag. The thing is he has plenty of time between now and week one (Steelers no less), to get things working correctly.
Click to expand...

How often they actually do go downfield is irrelevant. It's the threat of the deep ball and having to cover the entire field as a result.
 
D

Dutch Gronk

Banned
I FEEL SO FREE! I FEEL SO PATRIOTIC!

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Fuckigb bar closed at 1 am, fucking shitty country I live in doesn't want to be free!

TIME TO GO BAK TO THE MOTHERLAND!

Edit: Fucking IRC is dead once again! All you guys are stuffing your faces with fireworks and barbecue food.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Dutch Patriot said:
I FEEL SO FREE! I FEEL SO PATRIOTIC!

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Fuckigb bar closed at 1 am, fucking shitty country I live in doesn't want to be free!

TIME TO GO BAK TO THE MOTHERLAND!
Click to expand...

YJ9UH.jpg


Also, LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!

(Or did I just miss that earlier?)
 
S

squicken

Member
Milchjon said:
[IM]http://i.imgur.com/YJ9UH.jpg[/IMG]

Also, LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!

(Or did I just miss that earlier?)
Click to expand...

Thread title is marvelous.

You guys love soccer though, and it seems like it goes on all year round. But why are their two transfer periods? And why would a team loan out a good player? Are their like trades and trade deadlines in soccer?
 
D

Dutch Gronk

Banned
squicken said:
Thread title is marvelous.

You guys love soccer though, and it seems like it goes on all year round. But why are their two transfer periods? And why would a team loan out a good player? Are their like trades and trade deadlines in soccer?
Click to expand...

When the transfer period is over, you can't trade, sell or anything. And soccer isn't all year round, there is nothing now.

They don't loan good players, they only loan young players to shitty team so they can get playing time. So strictly for development.

IRC is still boring
 
G

Godslay

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
How often they actually do go downfield is irrelevant. It's the threat of the deep ball and having to cover the entire field as a result.
Click to expand...

At this point he can still throw it, just not as deep or with as much zip as one would expect. The threat still exists.

Even with that said, I still think that for as often as it is thrown or accounted for in terms of coverage, it is largely irrelevant in relation to that of short to intermediate plays. I'm not trying to spin it to be a positive for Manning or the Broncos. After watching Tebow last year with only the threat of running or the deep ball, the short to intermediate precise passing trumps the deep ball in my opinion. Reading the defense and tailoring plays to the coverage is more important than the threat of giving up one or two big deep balls. I might be entirely wrong, but offenses that operate on the run and the deep ball stall out. Precise offenses move the ball and put up points.

Anyways, I'll respond later, I'm out to take my kids to the Zoo! Happy 4th, NFL-GAF!
 
M

Milchjon

Member
squicken said:
Thread title is marvelous.

You guys love soccer though, and it seems like it goes on all year round. But why are their two transfer periods? And why would a team loan out a good player? Are their like trades and trade deadlines in soccer?
Click to expand...

I have no fucking clue. My hate of soccer started when I was way too young to care about anything more than "this player is better than that player and you suck" or "my cleats are better than your cleats".
 
D

Dutch Gronk

Banned
Godslay said:
At this point he can still throw it, just not as deep or with as much zip as one would expect. The threat still exists.

Anyways, I'll respond later, I'm out to take my kids to the Zoo! Happy 4th, NFL-GAF!
Click to expand...

Deep threats are great! Just send a gimpy GronkGronk down the field when he's covered by Chase Backburner. WHAT CAN POSSIBLY GO WRONG!?

I wanna go to the zoo.
 
S

squicken

Member
Milchjon said:
I have no fucking clue. My hate of soccer started when I was way too young to care about anything more than "this player is better than that player and you suck" or "my cleats are better than your cleats".
Click to expand...

Classism? Soccer hating? Everything I thought I knew about Germany was a lie
 
S

squicken

Member
lol at the NBA. Would anything like Pheonix just giving away a player as good as Nash ever happen in the NFL? Let alone to a division rival? Well I guess the Moss thing but it wasn't like a lot of people wanted him. I'm sure every team in the league would like Nash for free
 
B

bionic77

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
that's the joke! and don't you find it strange that no one else wanted alex and yet he is by far the best QB in the division? :)
Click to expand...
Doesn't say much for that division or Alex.

Even crap players like Kolb get more attention and offers.

Though Alex knows his team was looking to replace him so maybe it will light a fire under his ass and drive him to take the next step towards becoming an average backup caliber qb. That's what I would hope for as a Niners fan. I kind of agree with them treating him like shit. Treating shitty players with kiddy gloves never works, but make them compete for a contract or their job or to prove someone wrong and you usually get their absolute best.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
bionic77 said:
Doesn't say much for that division or Alex.

Even crap players like Kolb get more attention and offers.

Though Alex knows his team was looking to replace him so maybe it will light a fire under his ass and drive him to take the next step towards becoming an average backup caliber qb. That's what I would hope for as a Niners fan. I kind of agree with them treating him like shit. Treating shitty players with kiddy gloves never works, but make them compete for a contract or their job or to prove someone wrong and you usually get their absolute best.
Click to expand...

as time has proven again and again, players like kolb and flynn are fools gold. they start a game or two on good teams, have ok stats and then organizations who have shitty front offices get fleeced for these loser QB's.

13-3 and getting your team to the NFC championship in a lockout shortened season? if he gets anymore driven then we'll have a dynasty on our hands!
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
squicken said:
lol at the NBA. Would anything like Pheonix just giving away a player as good as Nash ever happen in the NFL? Let alone to a division rival? Well I guess the Moss thing but it wasn't like a lot of people wanted him. I'm sure every team in the league would like Nash for free
Click to expand...

If teams could do sign and trades in the NFL then damn well they would. Suns didnt "give away" Nash, they got some free draft picks while he was leaving anyway.
 
S

squicken

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
as time has proven again and again, players like kolb and flynn are fools gold. they start a game or two on good teams, have ok stats and then organizations who have shitty front offices get fleeced for these loser QB's.

13-3 and getting your team to the NFC championship in a lockout shortened season? if he gets anymore driven then we'll have a dynasty on our hands!
Click to expand...

You do fear Bradford, though. He may end up worse than Alex but he has flashed the ability to be much, much better.
 
S

squicken

Member
darkside31337 said:
If teams could do sign and trades in the NFL then damn well they would. Suns didnt "give away" Nash, they got some free draft picks while he was leaving anyway.
Click to expand...

yeah forgot he was a FA. Still, it's always the Lakers. Plenty of teams would have far exceed that offer in a sign and trade. I said in the main thread I'm sure it's quite fun to be one of the three or four teams that have a chance

FrenchMovieTheme said:
lol yeah i'm terrified of sam. and when has he flashed the ability to be better than alex? when has he even flashed the ability to be equal to the alex of 2009/2010?
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwmqIy5UVGA&feature=player_embedded

Jaws' thing on Sam. There are simply throws he can make that Alex cannot. Can he do it consistently? Can he maintain composure in the pocket? Maybe not. But he has a higher ceiling than Alex.
 
B

bionic77

Member
darkside31337 said:
If teams could do sign and trades in the NFL then damn well they would. Suns didnt "give away" Nash, they got some free draft picks while he was leaving anyway.
Click to expand...
Shieeeeeeet.

I just saw that. Fuck yeah!

Lakers won't be title contenders most likely, but this makes us a lot more interesting.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
squicken said:
yeah forgot he was a FA. Still, it's always the Lakers. Plenty of teams would have far exceed that offer in a sign and trade. I said in the main thread I'm sure it's quite fun to be one of the three or four teams that have a chance



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwmqIy5UVGA&feature=player_embedded

Jaws' thing on Sam. There are simply throws he can make that Alex cannot. Can he do it consistently? Can he maintain composure in the pocket? Maybe not. But he has a higher ceiling than Alex.
Click to expand...

what throws? show me a throw bradford has made that alex "can't make". if i had the patience to go through some of my previous 49ers webzone posts i'd pull of the vid from 2006 when alex threw a ball 50 yards in the air flat footed to arnaz battle. i guarantee you bradford would never even attempt that throw.

but why bother? there are no throws in that video that alex hasn't made and made much better. bradford has a higher ceiling if you are talking about his college days. he has shown nothing in the nfl that would lead me to believe he will be in the top half of the QB's in the league.

remember when everyone was sucking his dick after his rookie year and i asked why? did these people even watch him play? and then of course i was proven right. bradford is an average QB on his best day. he doesn't trust himself or the play. he has awful pocket awareness. i'm rooting for him to be the rams starting QB for a long time
 
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