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NHL October Thread - The Shanabans North American Tour begins!

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C

Cactus

Banned
The Connolly signing was always low risk, high reward. If he's healthy, we get a fast, playmaking center to play with Kessel, and if
when
he's injured, we have a lot of guys who can slot in for him (Lombardi/Bozak/Kadri/Colborne). The very worst case scenario is that he gets injured around the trade deadline and prevents the team from making a trade that brings in salary.

Anyway, supposedly he went head-first into the boards at full speed after tripping on a stick in practice, so it's not like he's missing time for a small injury. I really don't think we should be turning on him...yet.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Wingfan19 said:
That's what I told my dad last night. Jimmy will face like 29 shots and let up 4. Never gets the breaks.
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That should be a new recorded statistic: Breaks. Certainly all Red Wings would find themselves at the bottom. Life is tough.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
brucewaynegretzky said:
Has anyone mentioned that DiPietro is out because he got hit in the mask with a puck... in practice? Hopefully DiPietro is this funny for the next 10 years of his contract.
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Rick 'good deal' Dipeitro

:lol
 
S

SpectreFire

Member
Cactus said:
The Connolly signing was always low risk, high reward. If he's healthy, we get a fast, playmaking center to play with Kessel, and if
when
he's injured, we have a lot of guys who can slot in for him (Lombardi/Bozak/Kadri/Colborne). The very worst case scenario is that he gets injured around the trade deadline and prevents the team from making a trade that brings in salary.

Anyway, supposedly he went head-first into the boards at full speed after tripping on a stick in practice, so it's not like he's missing time for a small injury. I really don't think we should be turning on him...yet.
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Only a fucking idiot would think paying an oft-injured centremen $9.5 over 2 years is low risk.
 
C

Cactus

Banned
SpectreFire said:
Only a fucking idiot would think paying an oft-injured centremen $9.5 over 2 years is low risk.
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1) the team can afford to eat the salary, even if he isn't playing

2) we have viable replacements

3) when Connolly is on his game, he's a good point producer, especially on the PP

How isn't it low risk?
 
A

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
Cactus said:
1) the team can afford to eat the salary, even if he isn't playing
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No healthy, confident team can afford to take a $4.75 million dollar hit to their cap for no adequate return.

Cactus said:
2) we have viable replacements
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Then why sign him in the first place? Bozak's good enough to be a first line centre now?

Cactus said:
3) when Connolly is on his game, he's a good point producer, especially on the PP

How isn't it low risk?
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Nobody will deny that Connolly can put up points when he plays. When he plays. Low risk is signing someone to an under-market-value contract and hoping that he outplays his contract, not overpaying somebody who has a long history of lounging around on the IR.
 
E

Epic Tales of Penis

Banned
Cactus said:
1) the team can afford to eat the salary, even if he isn't playing

2) we have viable replacements

3) when Connolly is on his game, he's a good point producer, especially on the PP

How isn't it low risk?
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I agree, especially when he returns and the Leafs are 8-0-2.
 
S

SpectreFire

Member
Cactus said:
How isn't it low risk?
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Paying an under producing player below market is considered low risk and high reward.

Paying an under producing player far beyond market value is considered high risk low reward.

By your dumbass logic, Marco Sturm should be considered a sure thing.
 
M

Manics

Banned
Solo said:
NHL 12 doesn't count. I heard when he plays that he plays as the Sabres anyways.
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Connolly played more games last season than Markov's previous two seasons COMBINED. You're paying Markov 5.75M until 2014. You were saying something about FLEECED??
 
M

Merguson

Banned
SpectreFire said:
Paying an under producing player below market is considered low risk and high reward.

Paying an under producing player far beyond market value is considered high risk low reward.

By your dumbass logic, Marco Sturm should be considered a sure thing.
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See, you're forgetting contract length.

The key here is short-term. If it doesn't work out, it's two years. If it was a long-term contract, you know the word for it.

When you're paying a guy like Leino with one good season under his belt, to a contract with $27 million spread over 6 years, that's high-risk.
 
S

Solo

Member
Manics said:
Connolly played more games last season than Markov's previous two seasons COMBINED. You're paying Markov 5.75M until 2014. You were saying something about FLEECED??
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Yeah, when Markov is healthy and back playing in November, we have a Top 15 NHL defenceman. When Connolly is back and playing in February, you have a second line centre at best as your first line centre.

FLEECED.
 
M

Manics

Banned
SpectreFire said:
Did you just compare the Pen's centre depth with the Leafs?

I don't.

I don't even.
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That's true man, Pens can't play guys like Lombardi or Kadri as 4th line centers. Leafs have depth.
 
A

aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
Merguson said:
See, you're forgetting contract length.

The key here is short-term. If it doesn't work out, it's two years. If it was a long-term contract, you know the word for it.

When you're paying a guy like Leino with one good season under his belt, to a contract with $27 million spread over 6 years, that's high-risk.
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So, by such logic, the Canucks' offer of a two year contract to Sundin was low-risk?
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Cactus said:
1) the team can afford to eat the salary, even if he isn't playing
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Surely you see the problem here. The argument against the signing has been that for that amount of money, you've got to spend it more wisely.

The Leafs can afford to eat it? OK. Then I suppose they could also afford to spend $5M on a shiny turd. Sure they could afford to eat that turd. But it wouldn't help them make the playoffs and wouldn't be a good investment.
 
S

Silexx

Member
aidan said:
Geez, Filatov's been sent down to the AHL by Ottawa. Remember when people balked at the thought of trading Bieksa for the kid (as was heavily rumoured)? And people thought Vancouver was going to come away having committed a BB-level fleece job? How the mighty have fallen.
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Filatov was merely a victim of a two-way contract. He hasn't been the worst on the team (he's got 1 point and is a +1 in 2 games) though he hasn't been the best either to warrant keeping him on the roster.

Another thing to note is that Bingo is playing 3 straight games this weekend. Better to let him play some top line minutes than to sit in the press box since they can bring him back up anytime without waiver concerns.
 
S

Solo

Member
SpectreFire said:
Well at least those things belong together.
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Don't go breaking Manics' spirit, man. He genuinely believes Kadri is something more than a career NHL 4th liner/AHL first liner/bubble player.
 
M

Manics

Banned
Solo said:
Yeah, when Markov is healthy and back playing in November, we have a Top 15 NHL defenceman. When Connolly is back and playing in February, you have a second line centre at best as your first line centre.

FLEECED.
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The only FLEECING done was by Markov's agent. Habs give him a contract extension when he can't stay healthy for an entire year. Leafs took a risk on a guy that played almost 70 games last year and his contract is a) lower than Markov b) over sooner than Markov.

FLEECED!!!!
 
M

Manics

Banned
Solo said:
Don't go breaking Manics' spirit, man. He genuinely believes Kadri is something more than a career NHL 4th liner/AHL first liner/bubble player.
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Coming from a guy who thinks Lars Eller is a power forward LOL
 
M

Merguson

Banned
aidan said:
So, by such logic, the Canucks' offer of a two year contract to Sundin was low-risk?
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I remember an one-year contract that was pro-rated which was pretty low-risk.

On the record, I'll probably give the Connolly contract a medium-risk status.
 
S

Solo

Member
Manics said:
Coming from a guy who thinks Lars Eller is a power forward LOL
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Bitch you will see the light of day by the end of this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he steals Gomez's job by the end of the season.
 
M

Manics

Banned
Solo said:
Bitch you will see the light of day by the end of this season. I wouldn't be surprised if he steals Gomez's job by the end of the season.
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Prediction: Kadri puts up more points this season than Eller's career point total to date.

Book it™ bitch
 
C

Cactus

Banned
aidan said:
No healthy, confident team can afford to take a $4.75 million dollar hit to their cap for no adequate return.
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The team is approximately $1m under the cap with one extra player still to be sent down when Kadri returns from injury. If Connolly does get seriously injured, he'll be placed on the LTIR and his cap-hit will be nullified. If not, we'll get probably 65-70 games out of him if the last two seasons are anything to go by, and that should be more than enough to receive adequate return.

aidan said:
Then why sign him in the first place? Bozak's good enough to be a first line centre now?
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Burke obviously couldn't know at that point that a healthy Lombadi would would be on his starting roster.

Also, Grabovski is our "first line" center right now since his line statistically plays the toughest competition and still puts up points and plus ratings.

aidan said:
Nobody will deny that Connolly can put up points when he plays. When he plays. Low risk is signing someone to an under-market-value contract and hoping that he outplays his contract, not overpaying somebody who has a long history of lounging around on the IR.
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Low risk means that the worst case scenario in any given situation is not something that can cripple the team. Connolly getting injured does not cripple the team.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Manics said:
The only FLEECING done was by Markov's agent. Habs give him a contract extension when he can't stay healthy for an entire year. Leafs took a risk on a guy that played almost 70 games last year and his contract is a) lower than Markov b) over sooner than Markov.

FLEECED!!!!
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Habs also made the playoffs twice without Markov while the leafs wanted connolly to help them make the playoffs finally.
 
C

Cactus

Banned
SpectreFire said:
Paying an under producing player below market is considered low risk and high reward.

Paying an under producing player far beyond market value is considered high risk low reward.

By your dumbass logic, Marco Sturm should be considered a sure thing.
Click to expand...

I really think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say.

Connolly can conceivably be a bad signing despite also being a low risk signing.

If everything goes wrong, the effect on the team as a whole will still be minimal and Burke would have a whole summer to decide whether to keep him around for the final year of his contract. It would still be considered a bad signing, but the team would not be cripped, as I mentioned before.

The thing is, we have no idea whether it's a bad signing.

Socreges said:
Surely you see the problem here. The argument against the signing has been that for that amount of money, you've got to spend it more wisely.

The Leafs can afford to eat it? OK. Then I suppose they could also afford to spend $5M on a shiny turd. Sure they could afford to eat that turd. But it wouldn't help them make the playoffs and wouldn't be a good investment.
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At the end of the season we'll know if the money was spent wisely or not. Connolly missing 5 or 6 games at the beginning of the season is no reason to discount any possible contributions he can/will make to the team.
 
S

SpectreFire

Member
Cactus said:
I really think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say.

Connolly can conceivably be a bad signing despite also being a low risk signing.

If everything goes wrong, the effect on the team as a whole will still be minimal and Burke would have a whole summer to decide whether to keep him around for the final year of his contract. It would still be considered a bad signing, but the team would not be cripped, as I mentioned before.

The thing is, we have no idea whether it's a bad signing.
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What if he comes back from injury, but it causes his level of play to go down and he underperforms harshly and still takes up nearly $5 million worth of cap space and is untrade-able because no one wants him?
 
P

pringles

Member
Socreges said:
Canucks/Wings tonight. They had some really fun games last season. Stoked.
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Those were some of the best games of last season. I'm still waiting for a playoff series between them, it would be epic.

The Wings will probably be rusty from having so long since their last game, but in return may have fresher legs later on in the game. Will be a good game for sure.
 
S

Simon Belmont

Banned
SpectreFire said:
What if he comes back from injury, but it causes his level of play to go down and he underperforms harshly and still takes up nearly $5 million worth of cap space and is untrade-able because no one wants him?
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Then we're stuck with Gomez for another year.
 
C

Cactus

Banned
SpectreFire said:
What if he comes back from injury, but it causes his level of play to go down and he underperforms harshly and still takes up nearly $5 million worth of cap space and is untrade-able because no one wants him?
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Healthy scratch and AHL for the final year of his contract.

I doubt that's much of a possibility though. I think the extra time off he's getting is precautionary. They want his neck/shoulder to be 100% for his first game so that it doesn't become a nagging injury.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Cactus said:
The team is approximately $1m under the cap with one extra player still to be sent down when Kadri returns from injury. If Connolly does get seriously injured, he'll be placed on the LTIR and his cap-hit will be nullified. If not, we'll get probably 65-70 games out of him if the last two seasons are anything to go by, and that should be more than enough to receive adequate return.
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Let's say Connolly matches his numbers from last season. 68 games and 42 points. That's adequate for $4.75M? Add to that how 68 games seems like the MAX he'd play right now - another 10-15 game injury isn't out of the question. A season-ending injury that would free up cap space would have to come early in the season to do the Leafs any good. Not to mention that you could only replace him with a rental since Connolly would likely be back on the books in Fall 2012.

If Lombardi stays healthy (seems like he will), I think the Leafs will still do well. But the Connolly signing sure looks as bad as many of us originally thought.
 
R

Revenant

Member
Epic Tales of Penis said:
I honestly don't get it. Pens took their time with Crosby and everyone was cool with it. Leafs are doing likewise with Connolly and everyone is up in arms.
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Crosby is a franchise player and one of the best in the league?
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Epic Tales of Penis said:
I honestly don't get it. Pens took their time with Crosby and everyone was cool with it. Leafs are doing likewise with Connolly and everyone is up in arms.
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The Crosby signing didn't come with a Breaks Easily warning.

People are discussing the contract, not how quickly he should be rushed back.
 
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