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NHL Off-Season 2014 |OT| - O stands for Overhaul

TrueGrime

TrueGrime

Member
Red_Man said:
I would agree with you, except for we still haven't heard the numbers. I'm 90% sure your case is right, but if it comes out that Subban was really asking for $10 M for 8 years or something stupid like that, then it changes the perspective of this. I expect the numbers to leak if he was asking for a ridiculous number, Bergevin will need any support he can get after this clusterfuck.
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You're right! Agreed. Always two sides of the story.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
KingHenrik30 said:
Trade this summer and the Habs will get a boatload. Wait a summer and they'll still get a good deal but you'll have less teams interested.
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Exactly. Now you have to decide to do it now, or take the risk and hope we can sign him to a long contract next year. Impossible decision to make, that should never have had to be made in the first place.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
KingHenrik30 said:
Buff probably wouldn't trade their first, BUT what if they threw the Isle's first at the Habs as part of the deal?
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No thanks. Keep him out of the East, and do not give him to the team with the best youth core in the league. I don't feel like getting steam rolled by the Sabres for 15 years with Subban as their captain.
 
Erdrick

Erdrick

Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
You guys were much better off with Dudley.

Bergie is cheap, but not stupid. Why would ANYONE want Pavelec?????
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I didn't say they would want him. ;) I just would rather get rid of him and his contract. Since he got his current one, he's played piss-poor. Throw in the DUI he got back home and his never holding himself accountable for his mistakes and blaming others instead... Yeah, I'm not his biggest fan anymore. He better play better this year or the media will be calling for his head. I hope he proves me wrong and plays more like he did when he was trying to earn his current contract, but I have my doubts.

As for Dudley, I know next to nothing about him but I could understand why the new owners wanted a clean slate. Our current GM, I'll admit has drafted quite well. Scheifele and Trouba have been great so far.
 
C

Coldnoodle

Member
Red_Man said:
WHY? WHY DON'T YOU LOVE HIM

No, it was a holdout.
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OqCwaPT.jpg


"He doesn't play the right way."
 
L

Lourio

Member
Why can't we have nice things? Just give him his money and be done with it? WTF.
Never would I thought this would end in arbitration...
 
C

calder

Member
Erdrick said:
I remember ages ago, when Bob Essensa went to arbitration with the old Jets. I forget which side was favoured but honestly, no one won. He was never the same after that. We eventually traded him and the terrible Sergei Bautin to the Wings for an equally shell-shocked Tim Chevaldae (Who was actually getting death threats in Detroit at the time, due to his poor play) and Dallas Drake. Then Essensa played absolutely horrible for them in the playoffs that year and the Sharks destroyed them. At least he doesn't begrudge us fans, as he had nothing but nice words for our city when I spoke with him last fall.

Arbitrations have a good way of ruining relationships between parties since a lot of it is telling one party how little they think they are worth. I've been to enough in my life to have seen the heated arguments.

Not looking good for Habs fans this day... Is why I was so glad none of the Jets have gone that route. Hope things can be repaired and he sticks with the Habs. I really can't imagine him anywhere else.
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Now THAT is a historical reference! Been a while since I had seen most of those names, that's for sure.

One thing I will say, I *think* that today players are a bit less apt to take the arbitration process personally, simply because it's been around for a while and the agents prepare them better for it and everyone involved has much more of a "just business" mindset. I don't get the feeling players leave arb in literal tears like they did 10-20 years ago. That being said, if a team gives a harsh presentation or the player is especially sensitive to criticism (don't get that vibe from Subban tbh) then bad feelings can still happen I'm sure.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
calder said:
Now THAT is a historical reference! Been a while since I had seen most of those names, that's for sure.

One thing I will say, I *think* that today players are a bit less apt to take the arbitration process personally, simply because it's been around for a while and the agents prepare them better for it and everyone involved has much more of a "just business" mindset. I don't get the feeling players leave arb in literal tears like they did 10-20 years ago. That being said, if a team gives a harsh presentation or the player is especially sensitive to criticism (don't get that vibe from Subban tbh) then bad feelings can still happen I'm sure.
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Prior to the meeting I wasn't too worried about this being an issue with Subban, because like you said he doesn't give off that vibe, but when I see quotes like this pop up:

Decisions were made today in relations to both of our positions and ultimately we have to live with those decisions.
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I'm thinking they may have finally pushed him too far.
 
C

calder

Member
Erdrick said:
Not sold on the idiot part but you're spot on with "doing nothing" assessment. When your best trade has been getting rid of Johnny Oduya like 3 years ago, it's pretty sad. I know Red Wings fans say they've had a lousy offseason, but I'd seriously contest that with our own. One signing for a new player, losing a very capable backup goalie and a bunch of one year contracts do not inspire confidence. We're essentially the same team, but likely worse. Since I think every other team in our division has improved...

Course, I could be wrong and maybe our GM will somehow get Subban and Budaj or Tokarski for like... a draft pick and Pavelec tomorrow. That'd be insanely stupid on Montreal's part of course...
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I think Chevy runs a good team when it comes to the draft and player development. Everything else... poor to no grade simply because he doesn't make trades. The only other thing he does is retain FA's, and in that he OFTEN either brings back the least effective players or overpays guys... or both.

I basically gave up on Chevy as a GM when he couldn't nut up and tell TNSE to use a compliance buyout on Pavelec. Literally everything else he does is pointless if he has one of the worst possible starting netminders cemented as his #1 in the middle of fucking summer.
 
C

calder

Member
Red_Man said:
Prior to the meeting I wasn't too worried about this being an issue with Subban, because like you said he doesn't give off that vibe, but when I see quotes like this pop up:

I'm thinking they may have finally pushed him too far.
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That's a good point. If nothing else you can say PK has had a complex relationship with the management of the team and especially the coaching staff the last couple of years, and yeah those memories tend to stick for the player. Even if PK is an emotionally stable and secure individual who wouldn't necessarily be upset by an arbitration meeting that doesn't mean all the little things between him and the team hasn't built up.


lamaroo said:
Subban was going to be my next jersey, guess I'll hold off...
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My sweater is an Evander Kane. No regrets, just pull the trigger and live with the consequences.
Solid chance I swap mine out for a MORRISSEY the day Josh makes the team
 
C

Coldnoodle

Member
calder said:
I think Chevy runs a good team when it comes to the draft and player development. Everything else... poor to no grade simply because he doesn't make trades. The only other thing he does is retain FA's, and in that he OFTEN either brings back the least effective players or overpays guys... or both.

I basically gave up on Chevy as a GM when he couldn't nut up and tell TNSE to use a compliance buyout on Pavelec. Literally everything else he does is pointless if he has one of the worst possible starting netminders cemented as his #1 in the middle of fucking summer.
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Sounds like he'd be a good Director of Amateur Scouting and not necessarily a GM.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
lamaroo said:
Subban was going to be my next jersey, guess I'll hold off...
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Yep.....same here, I've been wanting one forever too, but kept holding off because a little part of me was afraid of this. Sigh.

calder said:
That's a good point. If nothing else you can say PK has had a complex relationship with the management of the team and especially the coaching staff the last couple of years, and yeah those memories tend to stick for the player. Even if PK is an emotionally stable and secure individual who wouldn't necessarily be upset by an arbitration meeting that doesn't mean all the little things between him and the team hasn't built up.
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He's handled all of this garbage incredibly over the last 2 years, from the Therrien bullshit, to the Team Canada stuff. He's been nothing but class and never had a bad word to say about any of his coaches or management. It's obviously eating him up, but the fact that he's gone above and beyond what they asked of him and still treat him like this is embarrassing.
 
D

_DrMario_

Member
I don't understand what MB's plan is at all.

"Let's take him to arbitration, sign him to a "cheap" one year deal then sign him next year long term at a rebate price!"

Does he not understand that next year PK's price will be even higher?
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
_DrMario_ said:
I don't understand what MB's plan is at all.

"Let's take him to arbitration, sign him to a "cheap" one year deal then sign him next year long term at a rebate price!"

Does he not understand that next year PK's price will be even higher?
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They had an 8 year offer on the table, it just sounds like the cash was pretty weak.
 
Erdrick

Erdrick

Member
calder said:
I think Chevy runs a good team when it comes to the draft and player development. Everything else... poor to no grade simply because he doesn't make trades. The only other thing he does is retain FA's, and in that he OFTEN either brings back the least effective players or overpays guys... or both.

I basically gave up on Chevy as a GM when he couldn't nut up and tell TNSE to use a compliance buyout on Pavelec. Literally everything else he does is pointless if he has one of the worst possible starting netminders cemented as his #1 in the middle of fucking summer.
Click to expand...

It'll make us or break us (again) this season. As much as I like the Hutchinson kid, I feel like it may be too early to count on him as our #2 esp since we have such a small sample size to view from on his NHL play. (Albeit a very solid sample.) I was much more confident in Montoya, and honestly would have rather ran with Monty and Hutchinson instead of Pavs...

Chevy is good for about half of the GM job. I get being patient, but dammit, when your making your best additions through subtraction (See ya Wright and Setoguchi!) that's not very impressive. Of course, who knows what he has to work with and how tied his hands are? I'm still eager to have the new season start and Maurice gives me absolute confidence in the coaching part of the team. Work the team hard and make them earn their money.

With Essensa, it was funny, I was with the entire Bruins team, from Neely, Julien, Chara, Marchand, Lucic, Rask, Iginla to uhh... the dude who got suspended a million times last year, Shawn Thornton?, and as soon as I saw him I was a giddy little kid again. Didn't care about anyone else. I, of course, kept myself in check, but here in front of me was one of my favourite hockey players ever as a kid.

Hope to see em again next fall.
 
C

calder

Member
SuperSonic1305 said:
Grabbo was a hero who spoke against the tyranny of Carlyle.
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Once you guys finally drive a stake through Carlyle's heart and get a real coach grateful fans will erect a memorial statue to Grabovski in front of ACC. It will be called the Ignored Prophet or Portrait of a Martyr in Bronze or something.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Soooooo, I take it PK's not getting the "C" this season then?

I can't wait for the never ending PK chants this season.
 
C

Coldnoodle

Member
Stephen Whyno‏@SWhyno·18 mins
Asked by @reporterchris if he'd still be open to long-term deal with #Habs, Subban: "I think that's kind of a discussion for a later date."
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Toronto going to get Stamkos one summer and Subban the next.
 
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