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NHL Off-Season 2016 |OT2| I Want off Marc Bergevin's Wild Ride.

Y

yyzjohn

Banned
Kuro Madoushi said:
While I believe that analytics certainly don't take the human component into account, they're just another tool for analysis.

Just because a player has 60 points, it doesn't mean he'll get 60 points again. How did he get those 60 points? From where? What was he doing? Who was he doing it against? What kind of team was he on? What system is in place?

As far as I'm concerned, fancy stats just break things down even further and quantifies them to help with the eye test and to help maintain objectivity.

Additionally, all the top teams employ some sort of fancy stats and some even have their own proprietary fancy stat: certainly the recent Stanley Cup winners use them, why WOULDN'T you want your team to use them?
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Habs are probably saving some cash man, they can look up all those fancy stats online already.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Silver Arrows said:
The true balance is not relying completely on advanced stats, but using them to augment your abilities as a management group.
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This. The biggest issue is that both stats people and non stats people are generally so full of themselves and against the other side, it's difficult for them to reconcile. Some of these guys doing hockey analytics on twitter are some of the most arrogant people I've ever seen online, and on the other side these fossils who don't give any credit to stats at all aren't helping either.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Red_Man said:
This. The biggest issue is that both stats people and non stats people are generally so full of themselves and against the other side, it's difficult for them to reconcile. Some of these guys doing hockey analytics on twitter are some of the most arrogant people I've ever seen online, and on the other side these fossils who don't give any credit to stats at all aren't helping either.
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Exactly. The best place is a happy medium. Sometimes you can find a diamond in the rough with analytics and advanced stats, other times you need to gun for the best player available, whether in the draft, free agency or in trade.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Silver Arrows said:
Exactly. The best place is a happy medium. Sometimes you can find a diamond in the rough with analytics and advanced stats, other times you need to gun for the best player available, whether in the draft, free agency or in trade.
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The best guy I've seen in the MSM regarding this infusion of advanced stats is Ray Ferraro / Mike Johnson, both acknowledges their importance and the value they can have, and he also recognizes there are things that aren't quantifiable, and one chart doesn't describe every single player. They suppose to be used to compliment, not as a sole resource which is what a lot of people *cough Dopey cough* do.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Red_Man said:
The best guy I've seen in the MSM regarding this infusion of advanced stats is Ray Ferraro / Mike Johnson, both acknowledges their importance and the value they can have, and he also recognizes there are things that aren't quantifiable, and one chart doesn't describe every single player. They suppose to be used to compliment, not as a sole resource which is what a lot of people *cough Dopey cough* do.
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That's what I think is lost with advanced stats nowadays. Both in baseball and hockey. Fans are using it as a way to laugh at analysts and even management as a sort of smoking gun to fit their ideals and opinions. That's not what it's supposed to be, and even then, are you really better off using it that way then management is?

With how social media is, everybody can be armchair GM. Criticism is good, but some people let the fantasy get to their heads.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Red_Man said:
The best guy I've seen in the MSM regarding this infusion of advanced stats is Ray Ferraro / Mike Johnson, both acknowledges their importance and the value they can have, and he also recognizes there are things that aren't quantifiable, and one chart doesn't describe every single player. They suppose to be used to compliment, not as a sole resource which is what a lot of people *cough Dopey cough* do.
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Oh really?

What is my stance on corsi, good sir?

What is my stance on PDO?
 
M

Marvie_3

Banned
Silver Arrows said:
HF is a shitty board filled with terrible mods. Some may think that GAF has over-zealous moderation, but at least GAF really only comes out hard when you act like an asshole. HF mods throw out bans when they wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

Doesn't help the vast majority of fans there are petty and stupid as hell.
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Theres a mod on the Blackhawks board there thats one of the worst posters Ive ever seen on any hockey board. It amazes me that hes a mod. HF is terrible in its quality control.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Marvie_3 said:
Theres a mod on the Blackhawks board there thats one of the worst posters Ive ever seen on any hockey board. It amazes me that hes a mod. HF is terrible in its quality control.
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They also have ixcunicle manning The Lounge as a mod. I'm fairly certain that he has never watched a game of hockey in his life, or he's like President Eden in Fallout 3, gleaning knowledge of the sport from the posts on the board.
 
F

FUBAR McDangles

Member
Marvie_3 said:
Theres a mod on the Blackhawks board there thats one of the worst posters Ive ever seen on any hockey board. It amazes me that hes a mod. HF is terrible in its quality control.
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I got banned from hfboards when I got in an argument with a Stars mod who was adamantly claiming that Jonas Brodin is a trash player while propping up Brenden Dillon as the next #1 defender who was worthy of a Norris his rookie year. I basically said Dillon isn't very good and Brodin was better. In a neutral forum (the trades board, I think).

I messaged a buddy on facebook who also posted on hfboards at the time, he messaged a global mod who got the ban removed.

All of that happened within a span of 5-10 minutes. And the Stars guy kept his title and stayed in. The quality control is off the charts.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
FUBAR McDangles said:
I got banned from hfboards when I got in an argument with a Stars mod who was adamantly claiming that Jonas Brodin is a trash player while propping up Brenden Dillon as the next #1 defender who was worthy of a Norris his rookie year. I basically said Dillon isn't very good and Brodin was better. In a neutral forum (the trades board, I think).

I messaged a buddy on facebook who also posted on hfboards at the time, he messaged a global mod who got the ban removed.

All of that happened within a span of 5-10 minutes. And the Stars guy kept his title and stayed in. The quality control is off the charts.
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Granted, I have a few people (Mostly from the lounge) that I still talk to from HF. But by and large, that place should be avoided at all cost. Unless it's playoff time, then the Playoff Photoshop Thread is the place to be.
 
S

Solo

Member
Speaking of advanced stats, despite not being a huge proponent of then, I do realize their place in sports and their role in forming part of the picture required to analyze a player's value.

I work with a guy though who is very much a Don Cherry sort of guy. When I was telling him about my displeasure in the Subban trade and how PK is pretty much statistically (advanced or not) better across the board and how Weber has been on a decline for 2 years, he flat put refuted the notion and told me "the Habs flat out have the best D man in hockey now". Because... reasons. Intangibles. Leadership, etc. Okay, guy.

He also blamed Weber's decline on no Sutter beside him. Because Josi is an ECHLer apparently.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Solo said:
Speaking of advanced stats, despite not being a huge proponent of then, I do realize their place in sports and their role in analyzing a player's value.

I work with a guy though who is very much a Don Cherry sort of guy. When I was telling him about my displeasure in the Subban trade and how PK is pretty much statistically better across the board and how Weber has been on a decline for 2 years, he flat put refuted the notion and told me "the Habs flat out have the best D man in hockey now". Because... reasons. Okay, guy.
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probably "still has a cannon of a shot" right?

Honestly, my main problem with the PK trade isn't the fact that they gave up a young defensemen like PK. It's the fact that Bergevin said: "We won't trade him" and then he did. It reminds me of how the Troy Tulowitzki trade went down, with the player being railroaded after explicitly saying in the media that he wouldn't be traded.

It also doesn't help that PK was the face of the franchise in terms of sponsorship deals and general attention. Carey might be the heart of the team, but in terms of being in the cultural zeitgeist around Montreal and in Canada, PK was that guy.
 
S

Solo

Member
Honestly, and I hate to sound so cynical, but the moment I knew for 100% absolute certain they were shopping PK is when Bergevin came out and said they weren't. A confident, secure GM doesn't need to come out and put on a press conference to combat media rumors, let alone even acknowledge them. When he had that press conference it was clear he was panicking and blowing smoke trying to tame the fires.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Solo said:
Honestly, and I hate to sound so cynical, but the moment I knew for 100% absolute certain they were shopping PK is when Bergevin came out and said they weren't. A confident, secure GM doesn't need to come out and put on a press conference to combat media rumors, let alone even acknowledge them. When he had that press conference it was clear he was panicking and blowing smoke trying to tame the fires.
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I look forward to more Benning-Bergevin interactions in the future.

They'll both be out of the league in 2 years.
 
C

CreeperBlocks

Banned
Socreges said:
I look forward to more Benning-Bergevin interactions in the future.

They'll both be out of the league in 2 years.
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Horvat and Virtanen for Pacioretty please

I have a strong feeling Max Pacioretty will not be captain in two years. I think the Habs are going to tank this season.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Socreges said:
I look forward to more Benning-Bergevin interactions in the future.

They'll both be out of the league in 2 years.
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I remember me and a buddy saying that Benning looks like a dope, which is sad especially considering he is usually sound when it comes to drafting decisions. It doesn't help that his general demeanor and look screams "I don't know what I'm doing"

In fact, that's going to be Jimbo's legacy: the players he drafted will be pretty good. It's everything else that was the problem.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Solo said:
Honestly, and I hate to sound so cynical, but the moment I knew for 100% absolute certain they were shopping PK is when Bergevin came out and said they weren't. A confident, secure GM doesn't need to come out and put on a press conference to combat media rumors, let alone even acknowledge them. When he had that press conference it was clear he was panicking and blowing smoke trying to tame the fires.
Click to expand...
He didn't have a press conference for that reason, he was having one for the draft and Benning talked about speaking with him about a Subban trade that morning. But yea, it's obvious they were trying to move him even if he himself wasn't actively calling up people, his distaste for Subban has been lingering for a while, I had just hoped that reason would prevail over personal preference.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Red_Man said:
He didn't have a press conference for that reason, he was having one for the draft and Benning talked about speaking with him about a Subban trade that morning. But yea, it's obvious they were trying to move him even if he himself wasn't actively calling up people, his distaste for Subban has been lingering for a while, I had just hoped that reason would prevail over personal preference.
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I know that this was a hot button topic in the time after the trade (Still might be) but do you think racism has something to do with it?
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Silver Arrows said:
I know that this was a hot button topic in the time after the trade (Still might be) but do you think racism has something to do with it?
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When it comes to Bergevin personally? I don't think so, I think for him it comes down to have being a player and being stuck in the old hockey mindset, and Subban goes against the grain of that way in every way possible. Bergevin is very old school, Weber is a prototypical old school super star, while Subban is the future of NHL defensemen, and he was unable to recognize that.

How he's treated by a lot of the media I believe is definitely tied to racist notions no matter how submerged they may be.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Red_Man said:
When it comes to Bergevin personally? I don't think so, I think for him it comes down to have being a player and being stuck in the old hockey mindset, and Subban goes against the grain of that way in every way possible. Bergevin is very old school, Weber is a prototypical old school super star, while Subban is the future of NHL defensemen, and he was unable to recognize that.

How he's treated by a lot of the media I believe is definitely tied to racist notions no matter how submerged they may be.
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I do definitely agree that in terms of media sentiment, maybe even casual fan sentiment, there was a pretty obvious undercurrent of racism. Especially considering how Canadian media loves the silent leader that doesn't do anything flashy. The good ol' Ontariah boy, as Cherry puts it. And PK was the complete anti-thesis to that.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
Silver Arrows said:
I do definitely agree that in terms of media sentiment, maybe even casual fan sentiment, there was a pretty obvious undercurrent of racism. Especially considering how Canadian media loves the silent leader that doesn't do anything flashy. The good ol' Ontariah boy, as Cherry puts it. And PK was the complete anti-thesis to that.
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PK is the dude hockey needs to market itself better.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
DopeyFish said:
lol I received a warning at HF for saying "all the flavours of the world and you chose to be salty" when responding to a guy saying the Leafs are a garbage ass team.

Kind of makes me want to renew my interest in making that hockey site/fantasy sports/new forum backend again.
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Box stretch hockey?
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
imbask said:
already scored 2 interviews for next week, we'll see how that goes



I'm just another face :'(
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Lol yeah I thought that'd be quick.

While I don't think you "should" join my company, if you're good with Java and don't mind working at Nun's Island, I can forward your resume off to the hiring dept.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
I haven't listened to it yet, but Ben Scrivens was on the latest SDP, and apparently he goes on a 2 hour profanity filled rant

this should be good. lol
 
I

imBask

Banned
Kuro Madoushi said:
Lol yeah I thought that'd be quick.

While I don't think you "should" join my company, if you're good with Java and don't mind working at Nun's Island, I can forward your resume off to the hiring dept.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the offer, but I don't know any Java

also Nun's Island is the worst
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Awesome day on the golf course. Most people too smart to not play in the heat, so it was practically empty.

British Open starts tomorrow!
 
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