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[Gamer79]

The butt-hurt is so crazy in this thread. "Nintendo is putting out ps3 level games." Complete horse shit statement. Whatever you want to call it, Nintendo's level of games versus the vast majority of the industry is night and day. Nintendo games do not release with DLC shoved up your ass, They don't launch with 100+ Gigabyte installs or 50GB patches to fix the errors they launched their shitty products they rushed to release. Nintendo games are full of Quality while rarely ever launching with bugs. They take pride in their games while putting FUN ahead of all over priorities in the game development.

Call it PS3 Quality or whatever name you want to give it. I will take much more of what Nintendo is offering than the rest of the bullshit coming out in the industry today. Yes my PS5 games release with Higher fidelity Graphics. That does not mean they are better games. Infact, You can count on one hand how many quality developers are on the Sony/Xbox platforms. The rest of the Industry has went backwards with Sony and Xbox machines releasing 1 maybe 2 *must have* titles a year while Nintendo is just pumping out the hits and shitting on the rest of the industry. I will take more of what Nintendo is serving.

 

[jorgejjvr]

This is complete bullshit.

Nintendo is out here making PS3/360 games.

The rest of the industry is not, nor does their audience want them to.

Give me more PS3/360 games that are actually GOOD, instead of these bad next Gen games plz

 

[OuterLimits]

Zelda, Mario, Smash, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Animal Crossing. Sorry 6.

Splatoon, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Xenoblade, Advance Wars, Pikmin just to name a few others. Nintendo often does a better job making games across many genres than the other two.

 

[Holammer]

You guys might want to temper your expectations on Nintendo's benevolence.

Nintendo should be training its own AI for internal use. Feed it every bit of concept art and raw textures they have on the servers.

 

[LakeOf9]

Nintendo should be training its own AI for internal use. Feed it every bit of concept art and raw textures they have on the servers.

With how generative AI works, this still would not be enough data to train the AI to any meaningful degree. These models require literally trillions upon trillions of data points to pull from to work properly, it's why the existing ones needed to scrape literally the entire internet to be able to work (and even then they're extremely inaccurate with a very high frequency).

No one company would have enough data to be able to train a proper GenAI model on their own content. Not even a company with a content catalog depth of Nintendo.

 

[GigaBowser]

Nintendos might have crud hardware power buuuuuuut TOTK has more gamplay advancement then any others game of all time

 

[Kataploom]

You guys might want to temper your expectations on Nintendo's benevolence.

I remember the UI/UX teacher at university like 13 years ago pushing us to do stuff way more creative by saying: "Don't let the technology define how you will design, don't let it control you, take control over it instead".

I gotta admit, many hated him but he was definitely onto something.

 

[Kataploom]

Nintendo should be training its own AI for internal use. Feed it every bit of concept art and raw textures they have on the servers.

Some of you really think that's how Nintendo will use AI, but that's almost for creatively hurried devs, not for the ones that polish every aspect of the art. I can see them using AI for stuff like deep QA, code assistance (not code generation, that's junior level of programming, hell even worse), in-game technologies (upscaling, NPC behaviors, etc.)... Mostly stuff like that, the creative process cannot be automated, ever, that's something people rly into creative fields understand and that many that aren't, not only don't but also understimate a lot, Nintendo creatives are really on a league of their own.

 

[ProtoByte]

I agree that Nintendo gets too much praise for their gameplay, but also you have to consider their biggest competitor is the cutscene heavy, walk and talk section, handholdy gameplay Sony (that you are also a shill for LOL). And much of the western AAA industry also have issues making functioning and fun games at launch- so Nintendo in comparison is like an oasis in a desert.

I can't remember the last truthfully broken AAA release. And it's a lot easier to do that on Nintendo's part because... well, look at their games. Not just graphics, but the underlying infrastructure of their games is mostly old hat. Not that they don't have persistent fuck ups with Pokémon, or generally have trouble getting the games to run even with that.

As for this cutscene heavy shit... every SP game worth a damn had a good number of cutscenes or dialogue sections. Just because some do it better than others doesn't make the ones that do it better "less gamey".

Nobody praises TLOU2 gameplay for the slow walk sections, which I do think there were too many of (remind me how I'm a shill again?). They praise it for the encounters where very polished enemies, level design and player mechanics intersect. Nobody liked Spider-Man for the MJ or Miles walk-stealth sections. They liked it for the high octane traversal and combat, even if I think there's a lot more you can do with both.

I'm not trying to hear people come with this sinimadick walkie movie shit after seeing them embarass themselves with Hellblade 2 or any other game of similar nature coming from a studio or IP they just so happen to like.

Really showing who's in it for the gsmes and who's in it for the tech showcases.

I'm still waiting for your design corrections on Spider-Man 2 mf.

 

[crackajack]

Nintendo does Nintendo things, no surprise, but being against newer better tools because "we can do it the traditional way" is kinda stupid. Cars also can be build like pre Model-T, but unless you sell unique, luxury, sports or whatever cars, it would just be pointless. Nintendo games are no luxury good, so efficiency matters and no one will pay extra for outdated tools once AI catches on more and improves workflows.

 

[Woopah]

Nintendo does Nintendo things, no surprise, but being against newer better tools because "we can do it the traditional way" is kinda stupid. Cars also can be build like pre Model-T, but unless you sell unique, luxury, sports or whatever cars, it would just be pointless. Nintendo games are no luxury good, so efficiency matters and no one will pay extra for outdated tools once AI catches on more and improves workflows.

That's not what they are saying. They are saying that design is more important than tech.

 

[Robb]

I feel like that’s to be expected since they rarely just jump on new tech. It has to be old, cheap, and withered tech for Nintendo to even be interested.

 

[Tams]

This is complete bullshit.

Nintendo is out here making PS3/360 games.

The rest of the industry is not, nor does their audience want them to.

I can think of at least 572.25 million instances in which people did want that and not only that, were willing to fork out at least $30 (or equivalent currency) or often more each time for them.

 

[EDMIX]

You guys might want to temper your expectations on Nintendo's benevolence.

I'm saying.

No company charging full price for a damn port is closing the door 100% to all that money.

It seems many of you must have forgot who the fuck this company is lol They'll probably be the biggest abusers of shit. They'll be saying shit like "intelligently assisted design" lol

 

[64bitmodels]

I'm not trying to hear people come with this sinimadick walkie movie shit after seeing them embarass themselves with Hellblade 2 or any other game of similar nature coming from a studio or IP they just so happen to like.

Me, who's not given a shit about Hellblade 2 since release:

Not that they don't have persistent fuck ups with Pokémon, or generally have trouble getting the games to run even with that.

Not the same dev, but yeah Pokemon isn't a good area for them. In response, can I bring up Driveclub, Gravity Rush and Japan Studios? Least Pokemon's STILL ALIVE.

Nobody praises TLOU2 gameplay for the slow walk sections, which I do think there were too many of (remind me how I'm a shill again?). They praise it for the encounters where very polished enemies, level design and player mechanics intersect. Nobody liked Spider-Man for the MJ or Miles walk-stealth sections. They liked it for the high octane traversal and combat, even if I think there's a lot more you can do with both.

When I think of handholdy gameplay I think of God of War's overly simplistic puzzles or the auto climbing sections in uncharted, compared to Zelda and Tomb Raider beforehand which let you do shit by yourself and figure stuff out on your own. And yeah, cutscenes are integral to any great singleplayer experience. But gameplay moreso than that, and Ninty's got it in spades.

Nobody praises TLOU2 gameplay for the slow walk sections, which I do think there were too many of (remind me how I'm a shill again?).

Its not about the 1 iota of criticism that you give to their most divisive game released in the past 10 years its about the fact that your loyalty to them is so staggering you're even attacking Nintendo's games of all things just to try and feel superior LOL. Even other Playstation fanboys know to stay the fuck off Nintendo's turf.

The only time you criticize Sony are the GOOD decisions they make: like putting effort into multiplatform strategies. Which also likely ties into your hatred of the other platforms

 

[daclynk]

tech area anymore.

What does this EVEN MEAN?

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Yeah more like decades of reusing same character and enemy designs lol.

 

[hemo memo]

Yeah more like decades of reusing same character and enemy designs lol.

You know that Nintendo has some of the most innovative devs in the industry right?

 

[Kataploom]

You know that Nintendo has some of the most innovative devs in the industry right?

Some here don't care about creativity, or else they wouldn't be suggesting using AI for "quick assets generation", which would work for realistic and generic looking style, for which it would be a bless btw.

When you are into creative process in anything no matter what (code, music, graphics, etc.) having absolute control of your art is 100% wanted all the time, unless all you do is composition (like, literally picking stuff, say photos or 3D models, and matching them together), in that case automating assets generation is 100% wanted if you don't have the ones you require for your vision.

It's ok not to get it, it's just not ok to act they KNOW because of how they believe it probably is and act like it's the whole picture.

BTW it would funny to see some realistic Nintendo games because generic assets generation gets more streamlined with AI, so maybe something like a lighthearted story-driven game can be done for specific audiences more easily. Also, I think generative AI for generic assets would make games like Nintendogs or ChibiRobo way cheaper and faster to do for smaller teams so I'd expect those to be some of the first uses if they decide to use it that way.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

What does this EVEN MEAN?

It clearly means they haven't made relevant tech in awhile.

 

[bender]

It clearly means they haven't made relevant tech in awhile.

 

[stickkidsam]

As someone who works in AI and always having implementations on my mind...I hope he is essentially suggesting they are exploring where it makes sense to use, and where it is not mature enough yet. If this is just him more or less saying, we know what we are doing and don't need that...The same kinda thing was said 100 years ago when cars started to come out. "Who needs a car, my horse gets me to work just fine." is what my grandfather said...

I really hope he isn't that bullish.

Eventually I’m sure AI will get to a point where a single person could just have it create a game based on prompts. Nothing wrong with making games the old school way with minimal to no AI generation even at that point. Nothing bullish about it.

Not everything needs to be optimized on the cutting edge.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You know that Nintendo has some of the most innovative devs in the industry right?

Not the the ones who make endless sequels to Mario and Zelda with the same mum and dad friendly look to them?

 

[daclynk]

It clearly means they haven't made relevant tech in awhile.

soo much wrong with this statement,
wasnt the switch more technically advance than the ps4 and xbox one when it came out even though it a visually it a 7gen++.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

soo much wrong with this statement,
wasnt the switch more technically advance than the ps4 and xbox one when it came out even though it a visually it a 7gen++.

Which lala land you live in. The Switch that came out years after PS4 and XB1 is weaker than either consoles. Everything inside it is less than what PS4 or X1 had.

 

[Darko]

“Nintendo doesn’t have to use ai to sell games.. but we do.. so f them and f you too”

 

[Woopah]

Not the the ones who make endless sequels to Mario and Zelda with the same mum and dad friendly look to them?

I get the endless sequel part, but not sure why a game has to only appeal to childless people to be innovative.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

soo much wrong with this statement,
wasnt the switch more technically advance than the ps4 and xbox one when it came out even though it a visually it a 7gen++.

 

[RJMacready73]

I'm sorry, Nintendo have always made kids games when they dropped out of the technological arms race they simply stuck to what they do best, kids games 2 generations behind everyone else

 

[ProtoByte]

Me, who's not given a shit about Hellblade 2 since release:

Yeah, right. You know exactly what I'm talking about. I can pull up the thread(s) right now. And I'm sure you'll be caught in this hypocrisy in future, if you haven't been already.

In response, can I bring up Driveclub, Gravity Rush and Japan Studios? Least Pokemon's STILL ALIVE

That'd be stupid, because it has nothing to do with the technical competency of Pokémon, Xenoblade or anything else.

People didn't buy or rate Driveclub very highly at launch, nobody bought Gravity Rush or really anything by Japan Studio after 20 years (?); people buy Pokémon in the 10s of millions despite the clownshoes technical foundations. I think that says more about the purchasing audience of Pokémon than anything else.

Its not about the 1 iota of criticism that you give to their most divisive game released in the past 10 years

One iota. Lol. Lmao even. I've got whole long posts heavily criticising the controversial aspect of TLOU2: The story. I hope you're just being intellectually dishonest.

There's no real controversy about what makes up the vast majority of the gameplay.

Even other Playstation fanboys know to stay the fuck off Nintendo's turf.

This isn't '70s NY. What a fucking asinine statement while you're accusing me of being the fanboy.

Nobody's off limits from criticism. I push back on the attempted (and hypocritical) delegitimization of games being games because they have better cutscenes than what's on the other platform.

The only time you criticize Sony are the GOOD decisions they make: like putting effort into multiplatform strategies. Which also likely ties into your hatred of the other platforms

Such a good decision that pushed Microsoft off the brink, and that oh so untouchable Nintendo is avoiding like the plague.

God of War's overly simplistic puzzles or the auto climbing sections in uncharted, compared to Zelda and Tomb Raider beforehand which let you do shit by yourself and figure stuff out on your own

GoW puzzles are very simple, but they're there to even the pace. They make up like what? 10% of the gameplay? Fair criticism, but nothing foundational to the point that the game becomes a "slow walk sim" or whatever. You're more likely to get me to agree that they went too far, even farther than TLoU2, with Atreus' sections.

Uncharted doesn't have auto climbing, it's just not that hard. It isn't supposed to be. Neither is dungeon-based Zelda. Matter of fact, very little from Nintendo is that challenging.

 

[IDKFA]

Why use AI when they make the same 5 games for 20 years.

Those same games have sold hundreds of millions of units combined on the Switch.

MK8 is a Wii U game, but it's sold over 60 million copies on the Switch alone.

Clearly the people are happy buying these games, so if it's not broke why fix it?

 

[Team Andromeda]

I get the endless sequel part, but not sure why a game has to only appeal to childless people to be innovative.

There's nothing innovative about NCL games unless you can point me to an NCL that dares to do something different gameplay wise? And there's nothing innovative or daring about having cartoon-style graphics in nearly every game you make.

 

[Woopah]

There's nothing innovative about NCL games unless you can point me to an NCL that dares to do something different gameplay wise? And there's nothing innovative or daring about having cartoon-style graphics in nearly every game you make.

Well if I look at last year for example, Pikmin 4 added a bunch of different mechanics that weren't found in previous games in the series, and the art style was different to that used in other Nintendo published games like Mario Wonder, Bayonetta Origins, TOTK or Fire Emblem Engage.

 

[PectacularOz]

Their games are shit simple (not saying worse), compared to competitors. There's no need to use AI for the 86th design on Mario with under 1000 polygons.

 

[Badlucktroll]

 

[Guilty_AI]

You know that Nintendo has some of the most innovative devs in the industry right?

I see a lot of people mixing "innovative" with "well-designed". Nintendo generally has very well-designed games that shown to have been playtested to oblivion, but they aren't particularly innovative when compared to other devs. If anything, they seem to prefer tried and tested game design.

I remember post-2017 how many players kept asking why there weren't more BotW clones being made, and the correct answer for that was there wasn't much to clone to begin with, at least nothing that wouldn't be just some superficial element of it. BotW was "just" a well made game in general that made good use of its mechanics and showered the player with content.

 

[Woopah]

I see a lot of people mixing "innovative" with "well-designed". Nintendo generally has very well-designed games that shown to have been playtested to oblivion, but they aren't particularly innovative when compared to other devs. If anything, they seem to prefer tried and tested game design.

I remember post-2017 how many players kept asking why there weren't more BotW clones being made, and the correct answer for that was there wasn't much to clone to begin with, at least nothing that wouldn't be just some superficial element of it. BotW was "just" a well made game in general that made good use of its mechanics and showered the player with content.

The climbing/gliding and world interactivity were pretty different from previous Zelda games and most open world games at the time.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The climbing/gliding and world interactivity were pretty different from previous Zelda games and most open world games at the time.

Most open world games, not all. By then we already had games that employed similar mechanics and levels of interactivity like Just Cause 3 and Watch_Dogs 2, (or heck GTA) or many survival games that clearly had some influence on BotW mechanics. Naturally those are not the same types of game, but no game is when you break them down far enough.

And that's limiting it to open world games too, a lot of the level design in BotW was localized (especially dungeons) and could easily be put against non-open world games. A lot of the game's puzzles (in dungeons or out in the open world) feel very imm-sim lite in nature for example.

On a side note, gliding was actually a very common mechanic back then, open world or not.

 

[bender]

but they aren't particularly innovative when compared to other devs.

By what measure?

 

[Guilty_AI]

By what measure?

The same measure people use to say they're innovative.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Well if I look at last year for example, Pikmin 4 added a bunch of different mechanics that weren't found in previous games in the series, and the art style was different to that used in other Nintendo published games like Mario Wonder, Bayonetta Origins, TOTK or Fire Emblem Engage.

I think you're scraping the barrel with Pikmin 4 and I'm talking NCL made games, not outsourced ones for art.
There's nothing innovative about NCl these days

 

[Woopah]

I think you're scraping the barrel with Pikmin 4 and I'm talking NCL made games, not outsourced ones for art.
There's nothing innovative about NCl these days

How is it scrapping the barrel to give you exactly what you asked for?

Let’s do just internal ganes. The art style for Mario Wonder is not the same style used for the previous 2D Marios, nor is it the same as the art style used for Ring Fit Adventure, Xenoblade 3 or Arms.

 

[daclynk]

Which lala land you live in. The Switch that came out years after PS4 and XB1 is weaker than either consoles. Everything inside it is less than what PS4 or X1 had.

when i mean technology i didn't mean raw specs numbers of CPU, GPU and RAM. i meant things inside the switch. the switch uses USB type C while the PS4 and Xbox 1 uses USB type A. The Nintendo switch used HD Rumble which was far advance than the rumble motors that was in the PS4 and Xbox one uses. that is some of the technological advance feature i talk about not just raw BIG NUMBERS for CPU,GPU and other. i think people on this don't really understand the difference between tech feature and Raw SPEC NUMBERS.

 

[Woopah]

Most open world games, not all. By then we already had games that employed similar mechanics and levels of interactivity like Just Cause 3 and Watch_Dogs 2, (or heck GTA) or many survival games that clearly had some influence on BotW mechanics. Naturally those are not the same types of game, but no game is when you break them down far enough.

And that's limiting it to open world games too, a lot of the level design in BotW was localized (especially dungeons) and could easily be put against non-open world games. A lot of the game's puzzles (in dungeons or out in the open world) feel very imm-sim lite in nature for example.

On a side note, gliding was actually a very common mechanic back then, open world or not.

Both GTA and Just Cause are innovative in their own right, but the interactivity in GTA is nothing like what happens in BOTW.

Things like overcoming a high barrier by striking flint near some wood with a metal weapon in tall grass, creating a fire which spreads and causes an updraft, so you can use your glider.

That's not what GTA does at all, nor does GTA have the same climbing mechanics or game structure. GTA's innovations are in other areas.

Even if we only look at dungeons. The mechanics and design of the dungeons in BOTW are completely different to what previous Zelda games did.

 

[Team Andromeda]

How is it scrapping the barrel to give you exactly what you asked for?

Let’s do just internal ganes. The art style for Mario Wonder is not the same style used for the previous 2D Marios, nor is it the same as the art style used for Ring Fit Adventure, Xenoblade 3 or Arms.

Because there's nothing done in Pikmin 4 that we haven't seen done in some form or another before. I couldn't have careless if Daytona USA wasn't original or innovative. All that mattered was it played so well.
I don't get why NCL or their fans need to bang on about innovation when this is a corp that more sequels and plays it more safe than Capcom. Not that's a issue when NCL do make good playable games.

And I'm sorry Mario Wonder isn't that far off from Mario Bros U look, and is the same mum and dad friendly art direction. I miss the days when NCL did try to go for a semi-realistic look with Wave Race and 1080 and even Zedla on the N64 did look more adult like

 

[daclynk]

Joy-Con contains an accelerometer and gyroscope, which can be used for motion tracking, it also has haptic feedback engine known as "HD Rumble, also contains an infrared depth tracking sensor, which can read objects and motions held in front of it; as an example of its functionality, Nintendo stated that the sensor could distinguish between the hand shapes of rock–paper–scissors. Joy-Con R also contains a near-field communication reader for use with Amiibo.
Thats is just the features of the switch controller that the PS4 and Xbox one controllers didnt have.

Also Technology isnt JUST 'RAW BIG NUMBERS'. also the WIIU streaming tech that gamepad uses that came out in 2012 is way BETTER than the PS Portal that came out in 2024. how is that even possible.

 

[Woopah]

Because there's nothing done in Pikmin 4 that we haven't seen done in some form or another before. I couldn't have careless if Daytona USA wasn't original or innovative. All that mattered was it played so well.
I don't get why NCL or their fans need to bang on about innovation when this is a corp that more sequels and plays it more safe than Capcom. Not that's a issue when NCL do make good playable games.

There are several changes/innovations within Pikmin 4 that you couldn't find in previous Pikmin games.

In the same way I would call God of War 2018 innovative, as it clearly did things differently to its predessors.

And I'm sorry Mario Wonder isn't that far off from Mario Bros U look, and is the same mum and dad friendly art direction. I miss the days when NCL did try to go for a semi-realistic look with Wave Race and 1080 and even Zedla on the N64 did look more adult like

The art style for Wonder is certainly far more expressive than NSMB, and very notice different.

I guess I just disagree that a realistic art style is more innovative than a non-realistic one.

Between Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, I would say its Wind Waker that has the more innovative art style (even though I prefer Twilight Princess as a game).

 

[Guilty_AI]

Both GTA and Just Cause are innovative in their own right, but the interactivity in GTA is nothing like what happens in BOTW.

Things like overcoming a high barrier by striking flint near some wood with a metal weapon in tall grass, creating a fire which spreads and causes an updraft, so you can use your glider.

That's not what GTA does at all, nor does GTA have the same climbing mechanics or game structure. GTA's innovations are in other areas.

Even if we only look at dungeons. The mechanics and design of the dungeons in BOTW are completely different to what previous Zelda games did.

I was specifically refering to older GTA's though, mostly in the sense of vertical traversal and creative use of mechanics to accomplish tasks in unique ways, just to show this kind of design had been around for a long time. Newer GTAs are kind of shit in that area admittedly.

And being different from previous dungeons in the series doesn't really mean much. The main difference is that now they're non-linear enviromental puzzles which can be tackled in any order. In fact, this change is actually one of the most common criticisms i see of the game since it can make the dungeons feel trivial and not so unique compared to previous games, where elements and mechanics learned/obtained on previous dungeons or areas were used on new ones.

 

[Woopah]

I was specifically refering to older GTA's though, mostly in the sense of vertical traversal and creative use of mechanics to accomplish tasks in unique ways, just to show this kind of design had been around for a long time. Newer GTAs are kind of shit in that area admittedly.

And being different from previous dungeons in the series doesn't really mean much. The main difference is that now they're non-linear enviromental puzzles which can be tackled in any order. In fact, this change is actually one of the most common criticisms i see of the game since it can make the dungeons feel trivial and not so unique compared to previous games, where elements and mechanics learned/obtained on previous dungeons or areas were used on new ones.

Which GTAs specifically? I don't remember the ones I played having the environmental interaction that BOTW had.

I also much prefer the approach for the previous Zelda dungeons. But that doesn't negate the fact that what they did with the BOTW dungeons was more innovative than continuing with the previous dungeon approach.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Nintendo is our only light of hope