It would make more sense if they just release a new revision, like New 3ds, especially since a newer Tegra chip would be more energy efficient thus maybe clocked higher. And it would also be cheaper overall than adding a GPU in a dock that can't be used in portable mode.
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Nintendo Switch Discussion Thread (Question of the Day, Countdown, etc)
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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It would make more sense if they just release a new revision, like New 3ds, especially since a newer Tegra chip would be more energy efficient thus maybe clocked higher. And it would also be cheaper overall than adding a GPU in a dock that can't be used in portable mode.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Not at all. The Japanese markets focus on mobility is in stark contrast to how home consoles are preferred in foreign markets, and the latter markets are far more lucrative. Thats why many pubs for two generations have been trying to penetrate that market more. Nintendo is overly reliant on Japan only because their home console sector has collapsed and their handheld sector has significantly declined in the West. Either way its a risky decision for Nintendo.
Where's here?
Movalpolos
Banned
People are upset that it's looking to be even less powerful than a XB1. That severely restricts what sort of 3rd party support it will receive. Less games that appeal to less people = less potential Switches sold. Less Switches eventually translates into less confidence from Nintendo to continue making dedicated hardware.
I'm personally fine with just getting Nintendo exclusives for Switch (not remasters, new games), but I'm not fine with the approach they are taking. It needs to appeal to as many people as possible. Their current strategy with iPhone and Android can easily cannibalize the audience that might have bought a Switch since they can just easily get Mario and Pokemon on their phones for cheap or free.
They also need to do right for their loyal supporters and offer all those VC games (and other digital titles that don't require a Wii U gamepad), already bought, for free via system transfer or off the store. Doing right by them also means getting rid of the draconian region-locking.
$199 is the sweet-spot though. That's an impulse buy. If they try to price it the same as other current consoles (or higher), they will lose. The libraries that already exist on the other 2 consoles is massive. Years have passed and many great games can be acquired for cheap. They both have proper account systems as well, which goes a LONG way.
How do you think people would react if all the music they bought for iTunes was not compatible with the next iteration of hardware? Nintendo needs to get it right this time. From what we have seen so far, I'm not confident that they will.
If Japanese sales weren't worth pursuing for Valkyria then there wouldn't be a Vita version of Blue Revolution. Besides it's not like the games did especially great anywhere but Steam overseas.
PS4 hasn't exactly been a panacea for Japanese game sales in the west. In fact the most successful and inviting audience for Japanese games here in recent years has been 3DS, despite the overplayed "handhelds are dying" narrative. If Switch carries that forward it potentially provides a platform that serves Japanese games in both markets anyway, but unlike 3DS can also support modern ports and multiplatform investment.
And no Japanese publisher I'm aware of does more business for their domestic lineup overseas than at home these days. Well, except the one that doesn't count (Nintendo). What's actually proving more lucrative for Japanese game markers is dumping consoles and chasing the mobile boom.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Disregarding feasibility, I'm not sure it'd have much appeal. If it's essentially a third mode (undocked, docked, docked pro) it's still got to run basically the same games as the weakest version, so it couldn't make much of a change beyond resolution, or I guess increased AA for 1080p TVs. If they're already not concerned with having the latest graphics, how much hardware/software hassle would they think is worthwhile for the niche 4K/better AA crowd? They didn't care about such a thing for Wii, when resolutions above 480p were a much bigger thing than resolutions above 1080p are now.
Thought about getting this on my phone many a time. Would certainly purchase if on Switch.
If Switch becomes the home of every thing that isn't AAA then it will be an amazing system.
Astral Dog
Member
Thats where Nintendo Switch (potential) strenght comes, it would be the birth and good environment of many japanese games! as always with Nintendo handhelds and focus, lets see where this goes, cant wait for the January reveal.
Its been like this forever unfortunately, and I have mostly stayed out of the Switch-threads for this same reason. For me it seems like there are alot of people who really, really wants Nintendo to fail, and goes into all Nintendo-related threads with maximum negativity no matter what they do - and this doesnt only apply to gaf, its exactly the same on a norwegian board i frequent. The people who are most eager to criticize Nintendos decisions, never show up in the threads about games etc, but on the other hand often showcase their new PC or PS4 Pro or whatever. Which gives me the impression that alot of this negativity simply comes from people who arent really fans of Nintendo at all - making it pretty meaningless that it fills up all the threads. For sure there are critical people who also wants Nintendo to succeed, and a lot of the criticism is legitimate - but the level of ungrounded and clueless statements like "Nintendo only makes Mario-games anyways" like we got in that other thread is just so tiring to constantly respond to. So yeah, might as well stay out.
Jim_Cacher
Member
Nintendo is an easy target since their business strategies are different than that of Sony/Microsoft. Expect negativity ahead. When more multiplat games are announced and released, people will start to compare Switch with PS4 hardware and laugh at Switch's capability.
Not sure which thrust of the post you're denying so I'll expand on them all.
Perhaps it doesn't depress you, but it depresses me. Japan has always sought to penetrate the west, going back to NES success here, and strengthened by PS success. The problem is, starting last generation two things happened: their games had trouble getting out the door and competing against western games; the Japanese market diverged from the platform, on which they were being put out. Competing for the west became increasingly unhealthy. Also, FC-PS2 all had healthy audiences for games that didn't go west or only went west late, among which are many games we know and love. This was still the case DS/PSP-3DS. And, my point, it could be the case with Switch/PS4 multiplatform, a reunification after a decade. I don't see why anyone would dispute that a healthy Japanese domestic market is better for Japanese development than an unhealthy one.
As to history, I think it's pretty clear that Iwata buckled down on winning Japan, pivoting from the second life N64 had found as a proto-XBox in America. GCN abandoned that idea of a console. In response to GCN, Nintendo looked for lapsed gamers and non-gamers with DS/Wii and tried to keep gaming budgets down, despite the burgeoning western market having room for a huge number of traditional console sales. With Wii U, you have Nintendo addressing the TV problem of Japan and failing to make much ground that way.
With Switch, you have Nintendo trying to make the same console for Japan as for the West and bridge that very gap in lucrativeness you are bringing up. They are very much trying to unite the spheres of gaming, Japan and West. And that's the most natural thing for them to do, because they are working out of their position of strength in terms of developer and consumer support: the Japanese handheld industry, because, yes as you said that's the place Nintendo is left standing. And that's a console that sold 1/3 of its worldwide numbers in Japan and gets the vast majority of its games from that country.
I don't see where in my posts I act like this isn't risky, might not just fail, etc. It is risky. Japan might bet against itself. It might not sell to Japan. Even if it does it might not be able to leverage that in the west. But, putting out a corebox that couldn't leverage what support Nintendo has left and couldn't compete directly against PS4 in a generation it already won outside Japan?! That is more risky by far.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think there's cause for so much doom and gloom about sales and support. Well sure I guess on the support side for the fools who expected western third party support that Nintendo was never going to get in a big way, but not to anyone who had reasonable expectations about support (Wii U and 3DS type support combined, along with some Vita only type stuff prior).
I'm disappointed because it's becoming clearer as more details come out that the Switch is more a 3DS successor with a TV out dock due to the power hit the "console" side is taking due to games needing to run on a portable and the portable base where the processing is needing to be smallish.
But the 3DS sold well while the Wii U failed so it's probably a wise move for Nintendo. It's hard to not see this hitting at least 40-60 million sales even if the Wii U/3DS market diminishes some. I'm just not as interested in it as I sold my portables months back as I hadn't used them in ages. I have a dedicated gaming room that I share with no one, drive myself to work and only fly a handful of times a year. I just have no use for gaming anywhere other than in my recliner in front of my 55" gaming TV.
I'll still get a Switch if the price is write ($200 or 250 with a game or I'll wait for a drop/retailer sell/bundle) and the software support is strong. Which it should be as the Wii U and 3DS library together is quite strong with both Nintendo games and Japanese third party games. So while I'll be a bit let down by the lack of power, it's not a gigantic deal as I do 90% of my gaming on PC and PS4 anyway as my tastes shifted away from Nintendo's offerings starting with the N64 and especially with the Wii. I still like some of their franchises and they make nice palette cleansers/something different in between all the shooters, WRPGS, action/adventure games etc. that I mostly play.
To me, and I've said this a bunch of times, what would have been least risky is sticking with Iwata's family of consoles statement for NX--now Switch.
Launch a console in the West. Not super powered or anything--could even still be Tegra X1 based. Instead of underclocked, it could have been overclocked a bit to get closer to Xbox 1 levels etc. It could also be cheap as the chips aren't powerful, and there's no screen, joycons etc., just the console and a packed in controller.
Launch the portable in Japan. Plays the same games as it has the same chips, just underclocked. So putting it in PC terms it plays most games on Low to Medium settings while the console plays them on medium to high. The portable could be smaller and more ergonomic etc. due to not needing to have detachable controllers, slide into a dock easily etc.
A few months later as stock has stabilized launch the portable in the west and the console in Japan for those who want to play their games home and away.
I'm disappointed because it's becoming clearer as more details come out that the Switch is more a 3DS successor with a TV out dock due to the power hit the "console" side is taking due to games needing to run on a portable and the portable base where the processing is needing to be smallish.
But the 3DS sold well while the Wii U failed so it's probably a wise move for Nintendo. It's hard to not see this hitting at least 40-60 million sales even if the Wii U/3DS market diminishes some. I'm just not as interested in it as I sold my portables months back as I hadn't used them in ages. I have a dedicated gaming room that I share with no one, drive myself to work and only fly a handful of times a year. I just have no use for gaming anywhere other than in my recliner in front of my 55" gaming TV.
I'll still get a Switch if the price is write ($200 or 250 with a game or I'll wait for a drop/retailer sell/bundle) and the software support is strong. Which it should be as the Wii U and 3DS library together is quite strong with both Nintendo games and Japanese third party games. So while I'll be a bit let down by the lack of power, it's not a gigantic deal as I do 90% of my gaming on PC and PS4 anyway as my tastes shifted away from Nintendo's offerings starting with the N64 and especially with the Wii. I still like some of their franchises and they make nice palette cleansers/something different in between all the shooters, WRPGS, action/adventure games etc. that I mostly play.
To me, and I've said this a bunch of times, what would have been least risky is sticking with Iwata's family of consoles statement for NX--now Switch.
Launch a console in the West. Not super powered or anything--could even still be Tegra X1 based. Instead of underclocked, it could have been overclocked a bit to get closer to Xbox 1 levels etc. It could also be cheap as the chips aren't powerful, and there's no screen, joycons etc., just the console and a packed in controller.
Launch the portable in Japan. Plays the same games as it has the same chips, just underclocked. So putting it in PC terms it plays most games on Low to Medium settings while the console plays them on medium to high. The portable could be smaller and more ergonomic etc. due to not needing to have detachable controllers, slide into a dock easily etc.
A few months later as stock has stabilized launch the portable in the west and the console in Japan for those who want to play their games home and away.
Skittzo0413
Member
I'm beginning to think it's very likely that the Switch gets DOOM (2016). One of the things people keep talking about regarding the Switch is the compatibility with Vulkan, and seeing as how Nintendo has been forward thinking in that area it would make sense for them to show off the Vulkan compatibility in some way, and what better way than with a game that seems Vulkan enhancements?
They don't really have many choices for such games now, and I think DOOM could make sense given Bethesda's interest on the platform. It also runs surprisingly well with high settings on my 860m, despite that being far below the "minimum" required settings. I'm betting a medium-low settings port on Switch would be fairly easy to do and would look pretty nice on a 6.2 inch screen.
They don't really have many choices for such games now, and I think DOOM could make sense given Bethesda's interest on the platform. It also runs surprisingly well with high settings on my 860m, despite that being far below the "minimum" required settings. I'm betting a medium-low settings port on Switch would be fairly easy to do and would look pretty nice on a 6.2 inch screen.
united states. also europe.
dcx4610
Member
Exactly. I feel like I'm risking getting banned if I even dare to criticize Nintendo. It feels like they've reached Godlike status and if you have anything negative to say, it's blasphemy.
I grew up with the NES and have owned every Nintendo system. They were my life. When they mess up, make stupid decisions or go in a direction I disagree with, I'm going to speak out. Why? Because I care about the company.
Nintendo once again appears to be going the weak hardware route. The gimmick this time being that the console is portable. It MIGHT work but no one that is a serious gamer could be satisfied with just a Switch. Nintendo has relegated themselves to being a companion system to the main players and I'm just not happy that they are continuing in that direction.
Skittzo0413
Member
There is criticizing Nintendo- which is perfectly fine... you'll find that I and many other people who frequent these Switch threads do this- and then there is hyperbole like the bolded. I hope to be a Switch only gamer, and I consider myself a serious gamer. I'd much rather play any multiplat on a portable console like the Switch than my PC. The portability factor is incredibly important to me, much, MUCH moreso than some extra graphical effects.
GPU power is one of the smaller hurdles developers need to go through when porting their multiplats. Development tools and support is probably the biggest reason why Wii U got such shitty support, and by pretty much all accounts (so far) Nintendo has corrected that with the Switch. Just look at that Michael Pachter thread. So going underpowered here won't mean much in the long run, and it's weird to me that people see "underpowered hardware" as code for "real gamers won't like it" which, granted, isn't really what you said, but your point is similar to that.
It's more like because Neogaf is so big that it's hard to distiguinshed from the those who like the company but are annoyed by it from those who just want to see it fail big. You have a lot of people who like Nintendo, and others who love Nintendo. Then you have those that dislike Nintendo to very much hate Nintendo to the point of obsession. That's when I feel people are unable to distinguished from those who are clearly out pushing the fact that they want them to clearly fail and take joy from it over those who are frustrated over the company.
Just people throwing in the towel already because of one leak. I understand why they feel that way but I'm confident for the January conference.
dcx4610
Member
I don't understand how you could be a hardcore gamer and just own a Nintendo console though. What about Last of Us, Uncharted, AAA games, fighting games, exclusives, etc? How could you not want to play those? I can understand if you are a hardcore Nintendo fan and only care about Nintendo games but if you want a complete gaming experience, you aren't getting it from Nintendo and have to own a PC, PS4 or XB1 as a companion system and that's my problem with their continued direction.
They should be gunning for #1 and the only system you need. You want GTA? It's here and runs better than the other consoles. I don't like them settling for 3rd or even 4th place but that's what they are doing.
Just saying, Nintendo is my primary console. I recently bought a PS4 for TLG and some games and that is going to be my companion console: the more I can get on Switch over it the better.
I game on PC too but it's not gaming in competition with Nintendo, but rather orthogonal to it.
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As to western AAA, I simply don't give a damn
I game on PC too but it's not gaming in competition with Nintendo, but rather orthogonal to it.
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As to western AAA, I simply don't give a damn
DecoReturns
Member
I hate the term Hardcore Gamer.
Because you're satisfied enough with the games from your console ? I mean, I'm playing on different consoles but if a console offers enough great software to fullfill your schedule, why would you feel forced to buy something else ?
For my part, I don't like most western games. There are a few of them I like, but most of the time I'm playing japanese games. I still have to get a Playstation every gen because of the japaneses exclusives it get, but I'm not interested at all in Uncharted, The Last of Us, the latest AAAA game or stuff like that. And I'm pretty sure that there are people that likes only Nintendo games, because their game design suits them more. Just like I'm more fan of the japanese way of making game than the western way. And they wouldn't be less gamer than you are. Maybe they're even playing more than us here.
Anticipating that AAA titles will be broadly ported to this console, with its power as low as it is, will end in disappointment. The gap is just so large.
So it's a power race over everything again. The arm race is seriously going to hurt Nintendo more than it's going to help them.
Can't be worse than Wii to PS360 no? And that got several COD ports regardless. If the console sells wells enough I bet we'll see some AAA support on it.
Skittzo0413
Member
I have a PC, so any multiplats which aren't on Nintendo systems that I want I get there. There is no PS4 exclusive that really interests me beyond Bloodborne, so to me it's not worth it to get a console for one game. TLoU and Uncharted? I have no interest in either cinematic heavy games or TPS games. I barely have any interest in FPS games to be honest, though there are some I like. Mostly the exploration based ones. I also have zero interest in any competitive online games which is actually why I skipped Splatoon.
On PC I have The Witcher 3, Skyrim, Fallout 4 (though that disappointed me heavily), Diablo 3, Dark Souls 1-3, DOOM, Dragon's Dogma, Borderlands 2, Might and Magic X, and a hell of a lot of older games. And I have about 35-40 Wii U and 3DS games (total, not each).
Does this make me a non-serious (or "hardcore") gamer?
Yep.
I'm expecting a better situation than the Wii U, but not heavily. I am hopeful, however, for something similar to Gamecube levels of support. The gap is not at all too large to get games running on the Switch. FLOPS is really not the best way to measure how a system can run any particular game.
James Scott
Banned
It'll likely be better in terms of AAA 3rd party support than many of Nintendo's previous systems, yes, but it's still wise to not expect western 3rd party support to be particularly great.
This is a machine for exclusives like 3DS
well i by no means own only nintendo platforms - i also play games on steam, vita, and ps4, but i could go my whole life and happily never play an overproduced naughty dog game ever again. on a personal level, the whole 'photorealism rah rah rah' angle bores the shit out of me. my ps4 library is disgaea 5, grand kingdom, mirror's edge catalyst, the last guardian, tearaway unfolded, and other games that aren't technical marvels that work more from an art design standpoint and excel at game design (note: i haven't played the last guardian yet). for me, i don't really need a more complete version of a platform than what nintendo offers - but i do like the kinds of games that you can find on their platforms and seek them out on others when they're available.
AdventureRacing
Member
The vast majority of AAA games don't suite my taste and the last of us and uncharted fit that statement. As consoles have gotten more powerful they have continued to move further away from my tastes in gaming. The only games I really find appealing on the PS4 and xbone are indie titles or smaller budget ones usually.
For me personally there are enough games on Nintendo consoles that I could easily just own that and nothing else and be happy. However I also have a PC which basically gives me an endless supply of games. Unless I did nothing but play games all day I could never play everything I wanted on just those 2 platforms.
I also generally go for games with replay value. Games like smash bros, Pokemon diablo, Starcraft etc. I can put literally 1000s of hours into these games and not get bored. I've said it previously but if Nintendo did nothing but release smash bros that alone would be enough to satisfy me.
With regards to the hardcore gamer discussion above, and specifically namedropping Uncharted... I like uncharted games personally but I wouldn't exactly say they are made for "hardcore" gamers, whatever that means anyway. They are popcorn games, basically summer blockbuster equivalents. "Hardcore" film nerds don't stan for Transformers as far as I know.
That's what ive always pictured Uncharted being. But eh hardcore gamer term bothers me.
Zeyphersan
Banned
So I'm not a hardcore gamer unless I own a PS4? Good to know, guess I'll just take my gaming PC and throw it in the trash
Yeah, gotta keep expectations in check...
The logical conclusion of this train of thought is that you aren't getting a truly complete gaming experience unless you own every single gaming system in history with even one title worth checking out.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Quit playin games with my heart
Portable DOOM. PORTABLE FUCKING DOOM!
Give it to me. I will give you all my monies.
I'm sorry, if you are relying on any console hardware to be powerful, then you wouldn't be playing on a console at all. So, I'm not understanding this Switch power issue thing.
Skittzo0413
Member
It just seems logical if they have any interest in actually showing off the benefits of Vulkan support. We really have no hints or rumors about it but it seems to make good sense from a marketing/messaging standpoint.
From what I recall from reading this forum, several insiders on GAF have already said numerous times that the Switch can run current gen ports, and that the business/commercial aspect is what will decide which games do show up. Something I did after purchasing the WiiU and 3DS was to make a greater effort to inform myself of the entire libraries of those systems instead of just waiting for Nintendo's typical franchises, and to understand that it is okay to try something I "don't want" and then find out I enjoy it.
When using Xbox or Playstation, I would actually describe the way they present DLC, Games, US Military or lifestyle product Ads, etc. as "aggressive", but a positive to that must be that it nudges their customers to be aware of a variety of content they are free to consider for their console. I'm curious to see if Switch will also come along with a more aggressive approach like that.
I really wouldn't put my hopes up for a portable Doom (2016). It would be a great prestige project. But even if it is easily port to port, I doubt Bethesda has any reason to put it on there. It's not a mass magnet like Skyrim.
And I doubt Nintendo has interest to point out their Vulkan support for the general audience. The majority of the people doesn't even know what it is.
Still it would be nice. A pleasant surprise. But I just doubt and just can't see it coming.
Talking about games we might see I personally hoped THQ Nordic might be able to bring the upcoming games ELEX and/or Aquanox: Deep Descent to the Switch. But after we know about the Switch specs, I have the same doubts.
I have a more than decent PC and I must be the only one not to have played DOOM.
I hadn't planned on getting Zelda, but this old video totally convinced me. Now I am 100% I'll get that Switch for launch.
And I don't understand how anyone could be "hardcore gamer" and completely trash talk any system (the only exception if and only if that system were badly design from a hardware perspective like system failing levels like RROD Xbox 360). A "hardcore gamer" wouldn't mind the "causal gamer" because a "hardcore gamer" would be happy that people are playing games period. A "hardcore gamer" wouldn't throw insults like "waggle gimmick" or "touchscreen gimmick" around. Even if the "hardcore gamer" didn't even like a certain games the "hardcore gamer" would be still be glad that people are partaking in the hobby. A "hardcore gamer" wouldn't be jumping for joy and hoping for Nintendo to fail so that Nintendo games can appear on a PS4 or Xbox or PC. A "hardcore" gamer would appreciate that platform differentiation.
Thank you for this.
It's tiring to explain the obvious sometimes.
James Scott
Banned
Reposting from the dev kit spec thread:
Will Smash 4 receive no performance upgrades? Or will Nintendo allow some games to go beyond 1080p?
Nintendo did manage to get to 1080p with a couple games, what do we think they'll do with them if ported?
Will Smash 4 receive no performance upgrades? Or will Nintendo allow some games to go beyond 1080p?
In the case of Smash 4, I don't think there's some huge improvements on graphics. We'll probably see more performance improvements. For example, in 8-player Smash hazards in stages are turned off in the Wii U version. The Switch version, with more power under the hood, can make hazards in 8-player mode possible.
James Scott
Banned
Having minimal improvements would be a bit underwhelming, but if it has all the DLC and maybe new stages and 1 or two new characters then I guess it's still a pretty good deal.
James Scott
Banned
Skittzo0413
Member
I can see him starring in his own game. So lifelike.
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