-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nintendo Switch Presentation - January 12th
- Thread starter robotrock
- Start date
Yes, please. I'd love that. I spend a lot of time on Mario Wiki.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
The point was Retro Studios themselves don't outsource. Because, they aren't asked to deliver 3-4 games every two years to 4 publishers to pay the bills. All Japanese developers outsource, PG is one of the more notorious ones though. They have it down to a science with about 10 companies cooperating in every one of their games.
-BTW, Nintendo outsourced the Star Fox Zero art to PG, who then mostly outsourced it themselves
TheMagician
Member
Noticed the Switch trailer has more views than the latest Star Wars trailer.
19m v 15m
19m v 15m
The point was Retro Studios themselves don't outsource. Because, they aren't asked to deliver 3-4 games every two years to 4 publishers to pay the bills. All Japanese developers outsource, PG is one of the more notorious ones though. They have it down to a science with about 10 companies cooperating in every one of their games.
-BTW, Nintendo outsourced the Star Fox Zero art to PG, who then mostly outsourced it themselves
Funnily enough, Platinum Games received more work from Nintendo for the Wii U than Retro did.
The Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 1 & 2 and Star Fox Zero. (4 games, one of them being a port.)
All Retro had was DKC: TF and environmental art support for Mario Kart 7 for 3DS.
Again, all that tells me is that Nintendo doesn't care about expanding Retro or having them handle more than one project at a time by having them outsource work. It looks like NCL is just keeping the status quo with Retro Studios.
Magic Mushroom
Member
I wouldn't say TW101 is all that similar. It's pretty damn different. Same with Vanquish. Rising is more comparable, though that too has a flavor of its own.
I believe Monster Games assisted Retro Studios with Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze.
Okay, I'll do that and put it up this week in Gaming. Mods can move it to Community if and when they desire.
EDIT: Mario Community thread up here
Oh yeah, you're right. Technically that would be outsourcing because Monster Games aren't a first party.
Mentioned here in a Game Informer article:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=740074
Hum.... My original comment was about defending Retro Studio but since they only have two serie which reuse the engine each time (Metroid Prime & Donkey Kong) and Platinuum Game has stuff like Madworld being nothing alike Bayonetta, being nothing alike Infinite Space, being nothing alike The Wonderful 101. (Yeah, they are REALLY different) With a lot of "similar but with unique twist" kind of game like Metal Gear Rising or Vanquish.
I think Platinuum game doesn't reuse that much stuff actually...
TW101 and Bayonetta share a lot of basic systems of their combat system: one button evades (there´s even an accessory that grants Witch Time in TW101), directional parries, Jump->Attack to perform a launcher, shoot in Bayo/send teammates out in TW101 to keep combos from dropping while you position yourself, many weapons (whip, hammer, sword, claws), levels divided in small missions which are scored individually...I agree that the systems have evolved into very different things, but I also think that they share a common base from which they were built. This is not a bad thing and I´m not trying to shit in P* in any way, but I think it needs to be considered when gauging their output by numbers. I mean, they seem to have focused on "pure" character action games lately, instead of different things that have to be built up completely from scratch.
LordRaptor
Member
I think its possible its just that you can draw pretty much a straight line from Capcoms arcade titles through to DMC through to Clover through to Platinum in terms of their game design heritage more than specific or conscious mechanics reuse.
I really think Retro has something cooking for Switch for its first year. So I'm expecting a Retro Game for Switch in 2017
The following teams have had enough time to make a new game for Switch within 2017.
Mario 3D World Team and we know we getting new Mario
Retro were the last game made was Tropical Freeze
Zelda team and we know we getting Breath of the Wild
Pikmin 3 team and we know Pikmin 4 was rumoured
Then we have Mario Kart team
Smash Bros team
Splatoon team
Which all can reuse the engine and assets to make a semi sequel port within the first year.
That's literally a potential 7 AAA games within the first year of Switch that we could have from Nintendo alone. I think Nintendo knows they need to have a string launch year or else they are in trouble so they have decided to prep all the above games for Switch. This isn't included 3rd party debs that Nintendo publish such as Hryle Warriors 2 or even something new like Fire Emblem Warriors.
I haven't even included 3DS software teams as I think they may take a while to adjust to HD development or help out with the above studios. Perhaps 2018 we will start seeing 3DS dev teams like Mario and Luigi and etc for Switch.
Like I have said before Nintendo just need a dee enter gamed line up and competitive price. Of the Switch launched for $250 and had the above line up it would be quite successful.
The following teams have had enough time to make a new game for Switch within 2017.
Mario 3D World Team and we know we getting new Mario
Retro were the last game made was Tropical Freeze
Zelda team and we know we getting Breath of the Wild
Pikmin 3 team and we know Pikmin 4 was rumoured
Then we have Mario Kart team
Smash Bros team
Splatoon team
Which all can reuse the engine and assets to make a semi sequel port within the first year.
That's literally a potential 7 AAA games within the first year of Switch that we could have from Nintendo alone. I think Nintendo knows they need to have a string launch year or else they are in trouble so they have decided to prep all the above games for Switch. This isn't included 3rd party debs that Nintendo publish such as Hryle Warriors 2 or even something new like Fire Emblem Warriors.
I haven't even included 3DS software teams as I think they may take a while to adjust to HD development or help out with the above studios. Perhaps 2018 we will start seeing 3DS dev teams like Mario and Luigi and etc for Switch.
Like I have said before Nintendo just need a dee enter gamed line up and competitive price. Of the Switch launched for $250 and had the above line up it would be quite successful.
I really think P* has some kind of "basic action engine" they reused and tweaked to make both Bayonettas, TW101, MGR, Korra, TMNT, Transformers...some games use more of this basic engine and others use less, but still, there is a lot of work necessary to make an action game they can reuse in every game, like the timings for animations, sound cues, hitbox activations...Nailing all of those takes a lot of time, so it´s work they save with each new game (which is great, they shouldn´t have to reinvent the wheel every time).
LordRaptor
Member
I dunno... I think a lot of that can just be put down to the fact that the directors for these games have internalised a lot of "game feel" variables because they've worked on so many of these titles, that they can very quickly get 'close enough' because they know exactly which levers to tweak to get where they want to get, then build from there.
James Scott
Banned
We're speculating. Hard to speculate on new, original games without leaks. Ports make sense and are easier to guess.
But, no, "only" is very incorrect.
If the pro has gyro or other buttons the old pro may not be compatible
Maybe, but it feels like a waste having all that perfectly reusable work go to waste (as an aspiring dev just thinking about it makes me shiver). So it would be the most logical thing to do, specially for the on-demand projects like TMNT and Transformers, in which Kamiya & co. may not be as personally invested as in Bayonetta or TW101. At the same time Miyamoto said that even now Nintendo still takes some time adjusting Mario´s basic movement variables with every new game so it may go one way or the other.
Dark Cloud
Member
It'll probably be around evening time. Maybe 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. Eastern.
it was time for a change. and i've been playing gta v non stop lately
It's so grimy tho
Platinum basically has two game types that it reuses:
The Bayonetta/Metal Gear Rising/Wonderful 101/Korra/Transformers game type
The MadWorld/Anarchy Reigns/TMNT game type
Vanquish is a third game type that Platinum so far hasn't revisited (sadly).
Infinite Space is a totally different sort of game and it wasn't entirely a Platinum game it was more of a Nude Maker joint that Platinum helped out on. Kinda like StarFox Zero.
Platinum does make small changes to these game types to fit each intellectual property, but most of the hard work already has been done each game is just tweaked a bit outside of art assets.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
I had a look at other recent press conferences taking place at the International Conference Room of Tokyo Big Sight. One example is Adobe Max Japan 2016 which happened on September 2, 2016, 11:00 - 20:00 JST.
http://www.event-web.net/adobemaxjapan/
http://www.adobe.com/jp/creativecloud/events/maxjp-video-archive.html
It seems like a good venue for a press conference. Nintendo could definitely do a great show there.
http://www.event-web.net/adobemaxjapan/
http://www.adobe.com/jp/creativecloud/events/maxjp-video-archive.html
It seems like a good venue for a press conference. Nintendo could definitely do a great show there.
Rösti;223584471 said:I had a look at other recent press conferences taking place at the International Conference Room of Tokyo Big Sight. One example is Adobe Max Japan 2016 which happened on September 2, 2016, 11:00 - 20:00 JST.
http://www.event-web.net/adobemaxjapan/
http://www.adobe.com/jp/creativecloud/events/maxjp-video-archive.html
It seems like a good venue for a press conference. Nintendo could definitely do a great show there.
The screen on the first press conference listed is actually different from the one you posted a while back :
The only difference I see is that they use a bigger screen. It's definitively the same hall.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
The Adobe page says 7F 国際会議場 (which is 7F International Conference Room, the one I posted an image of earlier).
http://www.bigsight.jp/english/organizer/facilities/conference/
There appears to be some customization to Adobe's event. Extra screens, panels etc.
I highly doubt those games are being handled by an external studio.
If they were straight ports (with just the obvious visual improvements) I'd understand but we're supposedly getting brand new content with those ports so I'm sure they're being handled in-house (or with Namco in Kart and Smash's case)
If you look closely you can see the old screen behind the much bigger one at the adobe conference. I would assume Nintendo would do something similar
On the outsourcing topic, when I was watching the Color Splash credits go by, I was surprisingly see how many additional companies assisted with the games. Plenty I'd never heard of. As I think Shikamaru mentioned, Nintendo has definitely gotten on board with hiring outside contractors for HD development assistance this gen.
I thought you wanted Nintendo to make better business decisions this gen. XD
I thought you wanted Nintendo to make better business decisions this gen. XD
Dark Cloud
Member
Yeah, that makes sense.
Rösti;223584471 said:I had a look at other recent press conferences taking place at the International Conference Room of Tokyo Big Sight. One example is Adobe Max Japan 2016 which happened on September 2, 2016, 11:00 - 20:00 JST.
http://www.event-web.net/adobemaxjapan/
http://www.adobe.com/jp/creativecloud/events/maxjp-video-archive.html
It seems like a good venue for a press conference. Nintendo could definitely do a great show there.
Lets just hope they utilise their time properly and not just have it be an information dump. One of the last things the Switch needs right now is its presentation to be as boring and uninspired as the Wii U's near-launch event and the recent PS4 Slim/Pro Meeting.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
It will most likely be abandoned sometime in December this year. Nintendo can of course file a new application though.
Yep, because when I think of system sellers I don't think of what appeals to the mainstream like Animal Crossing, Mario Kart or Pokémon.
I think of the one spin-off series which its predecessor on the 3DS did horrendously bad in sales, is despised by fans of the series and didn't even grab the attention of the mainstream consumer.
Metal Gear Rising don't have the same system as Bayonetta at all, not the same camera, not the same kind of concept and it was made from the ground up. It's as different from Bayo than Vanquish...
Same with Wonderful 101, it has a evade move... Yeah...... That's cool... But it's not the same kind of move, it invented a new way of doing thing with the number of hero, the fact you can change weapon, the fact you can make another hero have a weapon and a lot lot lot of other stuff.
I don't even know why TMMT is on the "Mad world game type". I SUPPOSE Anarchy Reign is made with the same stuff as Madworld but with the multiplayer element, it feels like it could not have been the case. Same with TMMT, Transformers and Korra, i suppose they took Bayonetta as an example yeah but those were budget title anyway.
But for the general rule, it doesn't reuse assets like you said... Or at least for a lot less game than you think.
Quoting this again.
This "consistent quality" Retro has is a double-edged sword. Since Nintendo hasn't expanded the studio, they can't have teams to work on more than one game at a time. So you end up with the infamous, "Retro is making fucking Donkey Kong" thread. Which Retro being limited in size is why Next Level Games were given a Metroid project to work on.
So imagine if Retro is working on a new IP, but that IP isn't spectacular on reveal that there is more fan backlash. It really doesn't help that Nintendo doesn't expand the studio or have Retro outsource work to work on more than one project at a time seeing how rabid the fanbase can be ref: reaction to Metroid Prime Federation Force.
Edit: Oh I forgot again. Retro outsourced to Monster Games to help work with them on DKC: TF. It's too bad they still couldn't get a second team to work on another game during that because they're bound by NCL's orders.
This "consistent quality" Retro has is a double-edged sword. Since Nintendo hasn't expanded the studio, they can't have teams to work on more than one game at a time. So you end up with the infamous, "Retro is making fucking Donkey Kong" thread. Which Retro being limited in size is why Next Level Games were given a Metroid project to work on.
So imagine if Retro is working on a new IP, but that IP isn't spectacular on reveal that there is more fan backlash. It really doesn't help that Nintendo doesn't expand the studio or have Retro outsource work to work on more than one project at a time seeing how rabid the fanbase can be ref: reaction to Metroid Prime Federation Force.
Edit: Oh I forgot again. Retro outsourced to Monster Games to help work with them on DKC: TF. It's too bad they still couldn't get a second team to work on another game during that because they're bound by NCL's orders.
Sure, it's easy to say "Nintendo should expand Retro." But large-scale expansions and the reorganization and added bureaucracy that go with it can really change the culture of a team or company. Maybe Retro has stayed small because working on one game at a time helps ensure their high quality. We don't really know how they work internally.
(But I do agree Nintendo needs to work more on western studios in general).
(But I do agree Nintendo needs to work more on western studios in general).
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Hey so the world is going to shit but best games journalist Laura K has come through.
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796241335850323968
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796241478410498049
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796242528639062016
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796242921716645889
Side note: I might need Nintendo and their happiness machine now more than ever.
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796241335850323968
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796241478410498049
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796242528639062016
https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/796242921716645889
Side note: I might need Nintendo and their happiness machine now more than ever.
Pretty much what was expected.
Bayo and Cloud amiibo being held for the Switch version of Smash was pretty much expected at this point, no surprise here.
Not being a launch title isn't surprising either.
As for characters, I don't expect we'll know anything about those until they're ready to announce them officially.
Good stuff.
Based Laura, save us.
Wandering Robot
Member
Rösti;223584471 said:I had a look at other recent press conferences taking place at the International Conference Room of Tokyo Big Sight. One example is Adobe Max Japan 2016 which happened on September 2, 2016, 11:00 - 20:00 JST.
http://www.event-web.net/adobemaxjapan/
http://www.adobe.com/jp/creativecloud/events/maxjp-video-archive.html
It seems like a good venue for a press conference. Nintendo could definitely do a great show there.
It's gonna be a great venue. I hope Nintendo adds some pizzazz to the space, but it's already a classy choice.
Just about two months left.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Or, ya know, you could read the Iwata Asks and hear what they actually contributed to the game. And take a look at the credits for the game and see all the engineers, animators, and designers from Retro that worked on the game.
The basic movement system is almost the same. Then you have an evade move (which also triggers Witch Time with an item in W101), the Spike Ball is W101´s version of Bayo´s Panther Within, launchers work the same in both games (Jump then attack and won´t work on big enemies unless you first stun them), you have stinger type moves in both, circular AOE type moves in both, the parry system is exactly the same, energy mimics Bayo´s magic system for instant Wicked Weaves...changing weapons is done with a button in Bayo and by drawing in W101, but it´s the same principle. And then you have other stuff like the level being structured in small isolated challenges that grade you independently, a shop to unlock moves with the money you earn thanks to those grades...
I´m not saying they´re clones, there are a lot of differences between both games, but the more you play both games the more evident it becomes they share a lot of things, to the point of glimpsing a shared core. It also becomes more apparent that the way you have to play them is very different and that both combat systems have been developed in totally different directions. Even if I like more Bayo´s combat mechanics, I think W101´s are the work of a genius. Every little move in W101 has secondary effects which make it perfect for very specific situations and not only when attacking, but when doing the simplest stuff like just moving around.
I haven´t played TMNT, but I´ve watched videos and analysis of it and I agree with this: it seems much closer to Bayonetta than to Mad World.
LiberaTeExInferis
Member
Wondering if they will play the "Launch Window" line, not revealing everything, software related, given that E3 will be 6 months away...
Going by their own guidance, they expect the exchange to be 1 USD = 100 Yen and 1 Euro = 115 Yen as of March 2017. Right now, the day of the dis-err, the election result, the former is still higher than the forecast and the latter is basically at the level of the forecast, with some improvements compared to some hours ago. We'll have to see how things go in the next few weeks though.
It sickens me to even have to discuss exchange movements based on this thing actually happening
