Support NeoGAF

[il Diavolo]

Let's be honest there's a big difference between eg. Jim Sterling or EZA giving a low score to an otherwise highly praised game, and Polygon lmao.

Is there really though? Pre-jimquisition sterling would get his anus ripped into all the time for his opinions (mario kart 7, vanquish etc.) and the argument against him was always the same: he's scoring differently for clicks. Hell, one of his earliest videos on the escapist talked about this very issue. The same sentiment rears its head in every review thread for any hyped release on GAF, and it goes far beyond just polygon.

And I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical of reviews or disagree with what's written, but being dismissive or trying to invalidate someone's opinion just because of a score is silly.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Open critic is my go-to now. I just like the layout better.

While OpenCritic is a neat idea, I absolutely despise the layout.

lol

 

[Karuto]

While Nioh is definitely far more accessible than the Souls series is thanks to its tutorial dojo, I would still say that if you're not into those types of games, Nioh won't do a whole to sway your opinion. It's quite challenging if you're not careful. However, as someone who only beat Dark Souls 2 (played the others), I was able to get the hang of things pretty quickly and started to really get into boss strategies.

Just a heads-up for those that think it's some radical departure. It is very much one of those games.

 

[mujun]

But all it really means is, "I wish this game required me to do less of X."

I feel like passages that utilize it would almost always be better written in a more subjective way, such as "I did not like how X worked" instead of trying to spin it as some objective appraisal of how much the developers respect people's time.

The only idea seems to come from a position where the writer is 'obligated' to finish the game in a certain amount of time, which may be true of a reviewer but not necessarily the average person who plays the game.

I thought it included things like good checkpoints, save system, fast travel, avoiding obligatory collection/fetch quests, etc.

I'm a fan of games that respect my time generally speaking. Dark Souls is an example of an exception to my own personal rule.

 

[Xliskin]

Did Jim say something about the story ??!

 

[Trace]

I'm not saying that absolutely no one pays attention to the MC score, I'm saying that it being the reason for the bump in the sales charts is farfetched. All games rise in the sales charts the closer they get to release, regardless of the MC. The same thing will happen to Nier, Horizon, Zelda regardless of whether they get a 60 MC or a 90 MC.

MC actually plays a massive part in sales for the vast majority of games. I remember talking to a developer that specifically went after big-name reviewers, they had charts about it and everything. If Zelda comes out and gets shit on in reviews (it won't) it would make a huge difference in terms of sales.

 

[RexNovis]

I've said it before, while i have no context, my guess is that the story can get pretty crazy and insane , where certain people not used to that style will have the 'turn your brain off' mentality about it.

As for the lore, yeah, the lore by default is going to be weaker than Souls games because this is based on the real world. So sengoku era Japan with mystical stuff happening, and the set up for the story is really all there is to go on.

While i enjoyed the snippets of lore in the Last Chance demo on how the yokai slowly encroached on the village and took it over and the Ogress being born from the depression of a noble woman who lost her son to war, if your looking for more dark souls ish world building, its probably impossible due to how the Souls games are not actually based on real world places or fiction, so are kind of fully built on being able to release info as they please to keep the player guessing

So speaking of the Ogress just as an FYI she was clearly inspired by the tale of Onibaba. Its a story about an old woman and her daughter in law trying to live in feudal japan after her son was killed in the war. Its a very famous story here in japan and the film that was made about it is widely considered to be one of the best examples of early japanese cinema. I highly reccommend people check it out. I believe there are even full runs of it available on youtube if you look hard enough.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

People care way too much about Metacritic lol

Metacritic is reason Nioh has shot into top 3 in Amazon charts around the world. It was an afterthought before the reviews started dropping.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Btw I don't know about the LCT but the guardian spirits have their own lore descriptions in the full game to explain their name and their story

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I thought it included things like good checkpoints, save system, fast travel, avoiding obligatory collection/fetch quests, etc.

I'm a fan of games that respect my time generally speaking. Dark Souls is an example of an exception to my own personal rule.

Those things are all fine if they were part of the game design, but I think it's ridiculous to expect that everyone game must have them.

Examples like Dead Rising, Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, Alien: Isolation, the Resident Evil games, etc. etc. are all games that may have more restrictive systems in terms of saving, checkpointing or fast travel, but all are very much a deliberate part of their game design and have nothing to do with respecting a player's time or not

 

[Jamiaro]

Metacritic is reason Nioh has shot into top 3 in Amazon charts around the world. It was an afterthought before the reviews started dropping.

Wow, top 3?! Team Ninja must be REALLY pleased right now. Can't wait for the sales-figures.

 

[Kazuo Hirai]

Asia Version Box

 

[Planisphaerium]

i only care about metacritic for these 2 reasons.

sometimes bonuses are awarded for certain scores.

and

people who see an 87 average on metacritic of a game that theyre mildy interested in could be swayed into buying it, resulting in more sales and games. seeing an 87 raises some eyebrows and adds sales for sure.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

People care way too much about Metacritic lol

I mean you could post evidence that Metacritic doesn't affect sales enough to make a difference.

But...

Developers and Publishers seem to be convinced that higher scores lead to better sales and reception. At the least more than they would have had.

For example, Psychonauts might not have sold even that paltry amount if not for good word of mouth, etc.

 

[SgtCobra]

Ah good old Insidegamer...
- the repetitiveness of a small amount of enemies.
- predictable
- no memorable bosses

"It's frustratingly repetitive and thanks to the repeating pattern of the same small amount of enemies in encounters it lapses quickly into an autopilot." Also, and doesn't seem to hold the same level of quality throughout the game.

Oh well. At least the comment section of that review is pretty entertaining.

 

[Mattenth]

While OpenCritic is a neat idea, I absolutely despise the layout.

Yeah, the site needs a significant visual update/overhaul. We're working on it. If anyone's interested in helping out on the design side, shoot me a PM. We're in the process of shopping around for agencies/contractors.

Overall, we're happy with how far the look and feel has gotten us, but it's starting to feel a bit tacky.

 

[myco666]

Let's be honest there's a big difference between eg. Jim Sterling or EZA giving a low score to an otherwise highly praised game, and Polygon lmao.

Why though?

 

[Imp the Dimp]

While Nioh is definitely far more accessible than the Souls series is thanks to its tutorial dojo, I would still say that if you're not into those types of games, Nioh won't do a whole to sway your opinion. It's quite challenging if you're not careful. However, as someone who only beat Dark Souls 2 (played the others), I was able to get the hang of things pretty quickly and started to really get into boss strategies.

Just a heads-up for those that think it's some radical departure. It is very much one of those games.

Yes, I have to agree. Nioh is a Souls clone and you gotta be deluded to regard it as anything else. There is nothing wrong with being heavily, HEAVILYYYY inspired by some of the best games out there and Nioh adds tons of own mechanics so it's all good and just shy of being a Souls rip off.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Yes, I have to agree. Nioh is a Souls clone and you gotta be deluded to regard it as anything else. There is nothing wrong with being heavily, HEAVILYYYY inspired by some of the best games out there and Nioh adds tons of own mechanics so it's all good and just shy of being a Souls rip off.

I think there's a line between clone and being heavily inspired by something, and there's enough of a difference between Nioh and Souls for it to be regarded as the latter.

 

[Milijango]

Why though?

Polygon's reputation on NeoGAF (though not just NeoGAF) is poor. To name a few things, they're accused of Microsoft bias (because they accepted funding from them a while back), being bad at Doom (and now Nioh I suppose), and focusing too hard on political correctness in game evaluations (not touching that one).

 

[Cyborg]

Im so doubting now I doubt if this game will suit my taste. Some reviews are great others are so low......

Damn it.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Polygon's reputation on NeoGAF (though not just NeoGAF) is poor. To name a few things, they're accused of Microsoft bias (because they accepted funding from them a while back), being bad at Doom (and now Nioh I suppose), and focusing too hard on political correctness in game evaluations (not touching that one).

Don't forget the pie charts bruv

 

[sephi22]

Im so doubting now I doubt if this game will suit my taste. Some reviews are great others are so low......

Damn it.

Its 87 on Metacritic. What reviews are you talking about? There's one 6.5. Every other review is 7.5+
Game is not for everybody. I'm not even sure if I will like it (I bought it though). But there is 1 review that gave it a mixed score, which isn't even 'so low' its a 6.5

 

[wapplew]

Koei make 3rd person action RPG is a success, Grasshopper make 3rd person action RPG f2p is a success.
Capcom sitting on Dragon dogma and do nothing about it, DD online Japan only. Why they hate money?

 

[myco666]

Polygon's reputation on NeoGAF (though not just NeoGAF) is poor. To name a few things, they're accused of Microsoft bias (because they accepted funding from them a while back), being bad at Doom (and now Nioh I suppose), and focusing too hard on political correctness in game evaluations (not touching that one).

Taking money from publishers is bit shady but being bad at games (or certain games) doesn't invalidate the opinion. Neither does focusing on political correctness.

 

[Audioboxer]

Koei make 3rd person action RPG is a success, Grasshopper make 3rd person action RPG f2p is a success.
Capcom sitting on Dragon dogma and do nothing about it, DD online Japan only. Why they hate money?

But but but... Deep Down!

Yeah, Capcom continuing to be Konami-lite with some of their franchises. Hopefully TW3 and Souls popularity continues to light a fire under their asses for the terrible mismanagement of the Dragons Dogma IP.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Im so doubting now I doubt if this game will suit my taste. Some reviews are great others are so low......

Damn it.

Don't buy it then if two or three lower reviews are equal to thirty plus very positive reviews in your mind. Or just wait for a sale. It's probably not for you if are still conflicted despite the enormous amount of praise.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Taking money from publishers is bit shady but being bad at games (or certain games) doesn't invalidate the opinion. Neither does focusing on political correctness.

The second point is hard to judge.

Like if I'm shitty at RTS and I have to review Starcraft 2, I could easily have a miserable time and mark the game as "not fun", "cheap AIs" and "doesn't respect the player's time." It might still be a valid opinion by virtue but you can see how people would not give it any weight.

But but but... Deep Down!

Yeah, Capcom continuing to be Konami-lite with some of their franchises. Hopefully TW3 and Souls popularity continues to light a fire under their asses for the terrible mismanagement of the Dragons Dogma IP.

Hopefully they don't try to make Dragon's Dogma into a Souls game

 

[Rozart]

Im so doubting now I doubt if this game will suit my taste. Some reviews are great others are so low......

Damn it.

So...like every other game that's ever been listed on MC/OC? By that metric, it's faring better than some of last year's GOTY contenders since the current lowest score to its name is a decent 6.5/10.

Seriously though. A meta of 88 is really high considering how the highest rated game of this gen only has a meta of what...93?

Just read the reviews, identify what were the main issues that the reviewers had with the game and see if those issues align with yours.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

WTF Nioh is actually out of stock on Amazon now. Btw has any one received their pre-ordered bonus yet? Normally I get mine the same day it ships from Amazon, but nothing so far.

 

[Audioboxer]

The second point is hard to judge.

Like if I'm shitty at RTS and I have to review Starcraft 2, I could easily have a miserable time and mark the game as "not fun", "cheap AIs" and "doesn't respect the player's time." It might still be a valid opinion by virtue but you can see how people would not give it any weight.




Hopefully they don't try to make Dragon's Dogma into a Souls game

I wouldn't want that either, but I'm more so highlighting the success of 3rd person adventure/action games as of late. Capcom dropping the ball because Dragons Dogma itself may have came a bit early and been poorly marketed. Now the wave is high to ride and they're in the dark fumbling around with Deep Down.

 

[Caipirinha]

WTF Nioh is actually out of stock on Amazon now. Btw has any one received their pre-ordered bonus yet? Normally I get mine the same day it ships from Amazon, but nothing so far.

I have a feeling they have undershipped this game.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I have a feeling they have undershipped this game.

Probably. Nioh will likely shatter their expectations.

 

[B-Genius]

Am I the only one who finds it weird that every single one of those (English) reviews refers to Souls in some way? (God is a Geek manages to avoid it apart from their video review title.)

Sure, saying "Souls-like" or "Soulsborne" makes it easier to imagine the general game flow and perhaps it builds on mechanics from certain games, but all this name-dropping feels very disingenuous in this day and age.

The reviews are split into two clear camps. One group is going "Samurai Souls!" while another says "Not Just Another Souls Clone!" and it all feels like a big shouty mess that doesn't actually tell us anything meaningful about the play feel or aesthetics.

I'm not having a go at the game at all - it looks fantastic and I can't wait to pick it up.
It's just the way all this media is spun; it really lowers the perceived quality of writing/journalism imo.

 

[myco666]

The second point is hard to judge.

Like if I'm shitty at RTS and I have to review Starcraft 2, I could easily have a miserable time and mark the game as "not fun", "cheap AIs" and "doesn't respect the player's time." It might still be a valid opinion by virtue but you can see how people would not give it any weight.

If the review is well written and in depth it should inform people on all skill levels. And having more reviews on various skill levels and backgrounds is much more beneficial to everybody.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

WTF Nioh is actually out of stock on Amazon now. Btw has any one received their pre-ordered bonus yet? Normally I get mine the same day it ships from Amazon, but nothing so far.

I got my pre-order bonus a few hours ago.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I got my pre-order bonus a few hours ago.

Eh so did I. I guess I missed it.

 

[Baalzebup]

Am I the only one who finds it weird that every single one of those (English) reviews refers to Souls in some way? (God is a Geek manages to avoid it apart from their video review title.)

Sure, saying "Souls-like" or "Soulsborne" makes it easier to imagine the general game flow and perhaps it builds on mechanics from certain games, but all this name-dropping feels very disingenuous in this day and age.

The reviews are split into two clear camps. One group is going "Samurai Souls!" while another says "Not Just Another Souls Clone!" and it all feels like a big shouty mess that doesn't actually tell us anything meaningful about the play feel or aesthetics.

I'm not having a go at the game at all - it looks fantastic and I can't wait to pick it up.
It's just the way all this media is spun; it really lowers the perceived quality of writing/journalism imo.

It is the easiest comparison to make in this day and age, since Nioh does have so much Souls DNA injected into it. What they actually do with the comparison is another matter, but it is an easy angle to approach the game.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

WTF Nioh is actually out of stock on Amazon now. Btw has any one received their pre-ordered bonus yet? Normally I get mine the same day it ships from Amazon, but nothing so far.

Man I think Metacritic is utter garbage, but it sure did Nioh a service lol

 

[Mutombo]

Am I the only one who finds it weird that every single one of those (English) reviews refers to Souls in some way? (God is a Geek manages to avoid it apart from their video review title.)

Sure, saying "Souls-like" or "Soulsborne" makes it easier to imagine the general game flow and perhaps it builds on mechanics from certain games, but all this name-dropping feels very disingenuous in this day and age.

The reviews are split into two clear camps. One group is going "Samurai Souls!" while another says "Not Just Another Souls Clone!" and it all feels like a big shouty mess that doesn't actually tell us anything meaningful about the play feel or aesthetics.

I'm not having a go at the game at all - it looks fantastic and I can't wait to pick it up.
It's just the way all this media is spun; it really lowers the perceived quality of writing/journalism imo.

Well, how would you describe Nioh in one sentence then?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Well, how would you describe Nioh in one sentence then?

Dark Sengoku fantasy RPG With emphasis on high skill combat and loot based rewards.

 

[Delpij]

Well, how would you describe Nioh in one sentence then?

The greatest Beat Them All iteration of Team Ninja since Ninja Gaiden.
The more I play Nioh, the more I actually think that the Souls series borrowed a lot from what TN has been doing for decades in terms of gameplay...
The hardcore die and retry component, while decisive, ultimately feels like a tweak.

And the first level of Nioh is very surprising and tells the meta-story of the genre itself:

Spoiler

we're gonna bring this gameplay back from Occident to Orient using a Gaijin Samurai.

This is everything.

 

[Phloxy]

After beating it, review still stands.
https://youtu.be/vasrqArBOB8

 

[Audioboxer]

Man I think Metacritic is utter garbage, but it sure did Nioh a service lol

I think the Souls fans are all over this as well. Keep in mind Dark Souls ships millions now.

After experiencing something fresh with Bloodborne I was a bit meh on Dark Souls 3 (still loved it), and Nioh seems like that shot of something just different enough.

Even although I found the last beta trial a bit frustrating, I think that was a combination of knowing it was timed and preferring to just play something like this from the beginning.

 

[mujun]

Those things are all fine if they were part of the game design, but I think it's ridiculous to expect that everyone game must have them.

Examples like Dead Rising, Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, Alien: Isolation, the Resident Evil games, etc. etc. are all games that may have more restrictive systems in terms of saving, checkpointing or fast travel, but all are very much a deliberate part of their game design and have nothing to do with respecting a player's time or not

Of course those games include intentional restrictions that are design choices.

Which some will find appealing and others a turn off.

I don't think dev intention is a free pass when it comes to a review. If the reviewer finds that something like a game's difficulty, checkpoints or whatever causes them to feel like a lot of time is wasted attempting to make progress then they are within their rights to call the game out for that.

Some games are difficult to the point they make themselves niche. Are you honestly surprised that the average reviewer dings a game like that?

 

[B-Genius]

It is the easiest comparison to make in this day and age, since Nioh does have so much Souls DNA injected into it. What they actually do with the comparison is another matter, but it is an easy angle to approach the game.

Well, how would you describe Nioh in one sentence then?

I'd personally prefer to read thoughtful, well-written reviews, not "easy comparisons". Just wondering if I'm alone on this.

If I had to describe it in a sentence, I'd say:
"It's a combat-centric action RPG set in feudal-fantasy Japan."
But that's not really the point.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Yeah, but there are some valid criticism about the review process.

Absolutely, this is a valid concern to which I very much agree. Big time corporate video game journalism tend to be on the awful side usually being a mix of poorly written drivel, illogical thinking and overall too much self-importance. The only non independent places I even visit anymore are Eurogamer and USgamer.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Am I the only one who finds it weird that every single one of those (English) reviews refers to Souls in some way? (God is a Geek manages to avoid it apart from their video review title.)

Sure, saying "Souls-like" or "Soulsborne" makes it easier to imagine the general game flow and perhaps it builds on mechanics from certain games, but all this name-dropping feels very disingenuous in this day and age.

The reviews are split into two clear camps. One group is going "Samurai Souls!" while another says "Not Just Another Souls Clone!" and it all feels like a big shouty mess that doesn't actually tell us anything meaningful about the play feel or aesthetics.

I'm not having a go at the game at all - it looks fantastic and I can't wait to pick it up.
It's just the way all this media is spun; it really lowers the perceived quality of writing/journalism imo.

I personally don't see the problem. The game is very, very clearly inspired by the Souls games and if there's any game that can be described as a "Souls-like", as much as I hate that term, it's Nioh.

When you're writing a review and trying to recommend it to people, likening it to Dark Souls and the pedigree associated with the franchise is probably the easiest way to give people a rough idea of what to expect. It's not a clone of the souls games at all, but it takes very direct and overtly obvious ques from the franchise and I see no issue with reviewers bringing that up. I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people on GAF who are in denial about this.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think the people most zealous about saying its not like Dark Souls are generally trying to stave off accusations from trolls about it not having anything to make it stand out as its own identity.

Aka "lol souls clone garbage".

Even on Amazon right now, the 1 star reviews on the game are just trolling about how the game is just a copy of Dark Souls and it should not be bought on that reason alone

 

[B-Genius]

In denial? I'm not denying it's an easy way to describe the game. (People keep using the word "easy".) Maybe for when you're discussing with a friend or something, but so-called professional journalists and reviewers should be held to a higher standard.

I'm stating a criticism of reviews in general for games of recent generations. If comparing games (that are interesting and unique) to other games makes their jobs "easy", and they get satisfaction from that then...great, I guess.