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[onadesertedisland]

Yeah, they can refuse and heck, they can even refuse rudely, but if there's cause, then that refusal will not do anything to help them. In fact, it will only fast-track their way to a citation and/or county jail. Personal responsibility is key for me, attitude goes a long ways.

Since when do the actors of law enforcement have the best interests of a person breaking a said law in mind? Cooperation during interaction with law enforcement should be the legal minimum. At that point both involved are diametric adversaries.

 

[onadesertedisland]

I guess it all depends on whether the officer was just acting of his own volition for shits n giggles, or if he'd been dispatched there based on a civilian complaint. If, for example, the hotel had called for the police because the guy had been in his car in their parking lot for hours and wasn't recognized as a guest (there's a reason they ask your car's make/model/plate when you check in), then there'd have been reason to approach and investigate. Of course the video can't answer the question of why the police initially approached him, so people will fill in the blanks based on the subjective biases. But despite the video-maker's claim at the beginning that he's just minding his own business, he is on private property.

Would not a normal person go to the office and ask the front desk if the person eating the oatmeal is a guest at the hotel rather than knock incessantly for minutes trying to provoke a response?

 

[Patrol]

So the right to not have to present your ID shouldn't even exist because only an asshole refuses to abandon their civil rights?

The fact of the matter is that the cop can either declare his intentions or fuck off. Only bad cops get mad when they aren't given authority that they're not supposed to have.

I'm lost to how such a question would even be asked? There are clear scenarios where you are required by law to present your ID to a LEO, indeed some states even make it a crime if you refuse. The issue here though is the poor communication on part of the officer and the lack of communicated cause to warrant the ID being given up. It all comes back to how the scenario was even initiated though. Was it a call for service? If so, from whom? Or was it a self initiated contact, and if so, why?

No. Cops are human. Everyone gets upset every now and then, be it from having to arrest the same abusive boyfriend again and again, or having to tell a 16 year old's parents their daughter died in a car accident, or just dealing with someone who doesn't want to work with you and goes out of his/her way to annoy you. Heck, it can be easy to get flustered with drunks, you just remind yourself that they're drunk so they're being dumb because of the alcohol.

I'm not going to get upset at an officer getting flustered with someone who proceeded to be difficult for the sake of it.

Since when do the actors of law enforcement have the best interests of a person breaking a said law in mind? Cooperation during interaction with law enforcement should be the legal minimum. At that point both involved are diametric adversaries.

Protect and serve, right?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Patrol, the US Supreme Court has ruled that people are not required to turn over their IDs if there is no suspicion of a crime being committed. If it is on the state books, it's illegal and unenforceable.

 

[Enzom21]

No. Cops are human. Everyone gets upset every now and then, be it from having to arrest the same abusive boyfriend again and again, or having to tell a 16 year old's parents their daughter died in a car accident, or just dealing with someone who doesn't want to work with you and goes out of his/her way to annoy you. Heck, it can be easy to get flustered with drunks, you just remind yourself that they're drunk so they're being dumb because of the alcohol.

I'm not going to get upset at an officer getting flustered with someone who proceeded to be difficult for the sake of it.

As is the guy in the video. While you were rattling off all of those excuses for the cop, did you ever stop to consider that the guy in the car has experienced a large amount of harassment at the hands of police and he's tired of it?
You give all these reasons as to why the cop behaved the way he did but you're unwilling to give same benefit to the guy in the car?

 

[Demon Ice]

I love how Patrol's argument boils down to "here's a bunch of hypothetical situations for why this guy should just submit to the cop's completely baseless demands for identification."

 

[onadesertedisland]

No. Cops are human. Everyone gets upset every now and then, be it from having to arrest the same abusive boyfriend again and again, or having to tell a 16 year old's parents their daughter died in a car accident, or just dealing with someone who doesn't want to work with you and goes out of his/her way to annoy you. Heck, it can be easy to get flustered with drunks, you just remind yourself that they're drunk so they're being dumb because of the alcohol.

Law enforcement is like any job. You can choose to leave the profession should these obstacles cause you to behave in a manner that is unbecoming of the job. No one is given a green light to misbehave at work because their work is stressful. If you cannot handle being an officer without resorting to acting like a shitheel, find another job. It isn't as if being a police officer is a sanctimonious calling from a burning shrub, it's a job. It's a difficult, unrewarding, stressful job that requires people to act at odds with their instinct to enforce the law. Officers that can't handle that balance should find other employment.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Patrol, the US Supreme Court has ruled that people are not required to turn over their IDs if there is no suspicion of a crime being committed. If it is on the state books, it's illegal and unenforceable.

He's a cop, and yet, he does not know this.

Only in America.

 

[Valnen]

Very risky. The cop could have smashed the window.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b8d_1413049025

Haha. Cop was more than patient with that guy. Holy shit.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

YO

Officer sounds like he's in minecraft trying to get some wood blocks

 

[Marion Cobretti]

Any other site hosting the video?

World star won't load the video on my tablet. Perhaps it's chrome?

 

[Marion Cobretti]

I can not believe that cop. How much of a loser do you have to be to knock that long?

 

[WanderingWind]

I'm lost to how such a question would even be asked? There are clear scenarios where you are required by law to present your ID to a LEO, indeed some states even make it a crime if you refuse. The issue here though is the poor communication on part of the officer and the lack of communicated cause to warrant the ID being given up. It all comes back to how the scenario was even initiated though. Was it a call for service? If so, from whom? Or was it a self initiated contact, and if so, why?

No. Cops are human. Everyone gets upset every now and then, be it from having to arrest the same abusive boyfriend again and again, or having to tell a 16 year old's parents their daughter died in a car accident, or just dealing with someone who doesn't want to work with you and goes out of his/her way to annoy you. Heck, it can be easy to get flustered with drunks, you just remind yourself that they're drunk so they're being dumb because of the alcohol.

I'm not going to get upset at an officer getting flustered with someone who proceeded to be difficult for the sake of it.

Protect and serve, right?

Literally nobody gives a flying shit about how hard your job is when it's being used as an excuse for why cops violate people's rights. That attitude is why people dislike police.

Yes, you have a hard job. If you cannot hack it, quit. Don't take your inability to handle stress out on people. You having a bad day, for whatever shitty excuse you want to cook up, can lead to actions that will affect people's lives for the rest of their days. And not to put too fine a point on it, but it has also lead to police straight up murdering people and getting away with it scott free. So, maybe dial back the woe-is-me routine.

I don't hate cops, but I hate any authority figure you exhibits the type of piss poor personal accounting you're showing in this thread. I honestly cannot believe you're a police officer.

 

[Patrol]

I love how Patrol's argument boils down to "here's a bunch of hypothetical situations for why this guy should just submit to the cop's completely baseless demands for identification."

We simply don't know if they were baseless, however. We can sit back and hypothesize. He may as well have had RS but decided not to escalate the situation for someone just hanging in a car.

Patrol, the US Supreme Court has ruled that people are not required to turn over their IDs if there is no suspicion of a crime being committed. If it is on the state books, it's illegal and unenforceable.

"Reasonable" suspicion, but yes, you are correct. And no, it would not be illegal because it's attached to other criminality.

Law enforcement is like any job. You can choose to leave the profession should these obstacles cause you to behave in a manner that is unbecoming of the job. No one is given a green light to misbehave at work because their work is stressful. If you cannot handle being an officer without resorting to acting like a shitheel, find another job. It isn't as if being a police officer is a sanctimonious calling from a burning shrub, it's a job. It's a difficult, unrewarding, stressful job that requires people to act at odds with their instinct to enforce the law. Officers that can't handle that balance should find other employment.

I agree, but the point was that being flustered happens at any job as it's like any other job, even nurses and doctors, yet are they under the same scrutiny to act like robots?

Curious. What exactly made you feel like the officer acted like a "shitheel"? Did he use profanity at the driver? Did he lose his cool? Did he yell at him or raise his voice or do anything overtly, or even indirectly, that was unprofessional? Did he call him any names or talk down to him and demean him? Or is the issue simply not because he knocked on a window, but the duration of a few minutes of knocking? I mean, I'm all for analyzing the behavior of the officer as I'm curious what your thoughts are, but what of the driver?

He's a cop, and yet, he does not know this.

Only in America.

This is bizarre, did you really miss all my earlier comments?

 

[TheSpoiler]

This is bizarre, did you really miss all my earlier comments?

Sorry, it's really hard to pay attention when you keep using every logical fallacy in the book to excuse the actions of this cop.

So if you truly aren't a cop, thank god.

Edit: You know what, it's better to ignore him and move on. This is low quality trolling.

 

[andycapps]

Holy crap, just watched the video. This dude had some guts to do that to a cop these days. I mean, he's not wrong, I just wouldn't tell a black man to do this if they want to live.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

Could he have pulled this off if he was in a convertible with the top down?

 

[linsivvi]

Patrol is a grade A troll.

Or a typical cop.

 

[Enzom21]

Or a typical cop.

Considering he only does this in threads involving black people I would have to agree.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

I agree, but the point was that being flustered happens at any job as it's like any other job, even nurses and doctors, yet are they under the same scrutiny to act like robots?

Um, absolutely they are. The reason being that when people like surgeons, nurses and police officers "get flustered", people can die.

They are quite literally expected and trained to not get flustered. That's part of their job.

 

[NullPointer]

Exactly. The officer can't even answer the simple question of "why am I being detained/questioned/harrassed?" and it's the dude in the car being uncooperative?

This. A million times this.

If we're going to bring attitude into it, lets start right here.

 

[onadesertedisland]

I agree, but the point was that being flustered happens at any job as it's like any other job, even nurses and doctors, yet are they under the same scrutiny to act like robots?

Curious. What exactly made you feel like the officer acted like a "shitheel"? Did he use profanity at the driver? Did he lose his cool? Did he yell at him or raise his voice or do anything overtly, or even indirectly, that was unprofessional? Did he call him any names or talk down to him and demean him? Or is the issue simply not because he knocked on a window, but the duration of a few minutes of knocking? I mean, I'm all for analyzing the behavior of the officer as I'm curious what your thoughts are, but what of the driver?

Doctors, surgeons, et. al must behave absolutely without emotion or let stress affect their performance, or PEOPLE WILL DIE. As to the assumption that I was stating this situation the officer was acting like a shitheel, that was your assumption of my statement. I do think the officer was looking to either provoke a response for arrest, or to find a reason to arrest, but I do not necessarily think he is a shitheel per se.

If I must go back and explain the subtle meaning of my post, it was to refer to officers that get a hot head when faced with stress, the shitheel reacts to stress violently like a bully.

I think the officer in this video is trained poorly by a militarized, us-vs-them police force and his actions reflect just that. Now an officer viewing this video might believe that this particular cop acted completely legally and within respect to training, but the argument is that said training is the problem. Officers are being trained wrong. Those affected by the training cannot present objective opinions. So this might be "by the book" behavior, but that book needs to be thrown in the garbage.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

Serious question, could he have pulled this off if he was in a convertible with the top down?

 

[Demon Ice]

I agree, but the point was that being flustered happens at any job as it's like any other job, even nurses and doctors, yet are they under the same scrutiny to act like robots?

Uh, yes?

If black patients suddenly started dying left and right under a surgeon's care you bet your ass he'd be scrutinized. Probably would lose his job, and whining about how stressful the job is wouldn't change a thing.

 

[EatinOlives]

I agree, but the point was that being flustered happens at any job as it's like any other job, even nurses and doctors, yet are they under the same scrutiny to act like robots?

Curious. What exactly made you feel like the officer acted like a "shitheel"? Did he use profanity at the driver? Did he lose his cool? Did he yell at him or raise his voice or do anything overtly, or even indirectly, that was unprofessional? Did he call him any names or talk down to him and demean him? Or is the issue simply not because he knocked on a window, but the duration of a few minutes of knocking? I mean, I'm all for analyzing the behavior of the officer as I'm curious what your thoughts are, but what of the driver?

They, just like police officers, are expected to behave professionally. You seem to think being professional is impossible because it's "acting like a robot". That's not the case. And yes, doctors get scrutinized all the time and there's always tons of medical malpractice suits.

To answer your question, the police officer was behaving like a bully. It doesn't have to manifest itself into outright hostility (raising his voice, calling him names, etc.) for it to be considered bullying. He went up to a random person in a parked car and instantly assumed he wasn't supposed to be there and demanded to see ID. This is something he knows full well he cannot do, and dodged the very simple question of "why do you see my ID?" multiple times. When he didn't get what he wanted he resorted to prolonged knocking of his windshield with the exclusive purpose to annoy to the driver, who at that point had done nothing except not show him his ID because he had no reason to.

His behavior was unprofessional and unjustified. Maybe you think this is professional because it didn't result in the driver being shot in the back and killed, but that doesn't mean everyone should lower their standards accordingly.

 

[JDSN]

I agree, but the point was that being flustered happens at any job as it's like any other job, even nurses and doctors, yet are they under the same scrutiny to act like robots?

The patients ive treated tend to be under stress of their ailings, couple that with the waiting times and some first interactions tend to be extremely unpleasant, the job we make its meant to protect the people and ensure their safety when they need us the most, if you see a person in distress/panic/anger your objective should be to bring things down a notch, not escalate things because of hurt pride. If this responsibilities are too much or if you believe that you can protect and serve sometimes and sometimes not, then you are not fit for the kind of job we do daily.

The last time I acted like the douche in the video was during my intern days, I wouldnt do that again even if tomorrow we get some absurd laws that protect us from everything like the ones american cops have, I know better now.

 

[User 73706]

YO

Officer sounds like he's in minecraft trying to get some wood blocks

I laughed pretty hard at this. Doesn't he know glass breaks when you mine it?

 

[Christopher]

Patrols an actual cop?

 

[Enzom21]

Patrols an actual cop?

He claims to be. Do you have your doubts?

 

[NullPointer]

Patrols an actual cop?

If you have a reasonable suspicion you can demand that he show you his ID.

I read that somewhere.

 

[Patrol]

They, just like police officers, are expected to behave professionally. You seem to think being professional is impossible because it's "acting like a robot". That's not the case. And yes, doctors get scrutinized all the time and there's always tons of medical malpractice suits.

To answer your question, the police officer was behaving like a bully. It doesn't have to manifest itself into outright hostility (raising his voice, calling him names, etc.) for it to be considered bullying. He went up to a random person in a parked car and instantly assumed he wasn't supposed to be there and demanded to see ID. This is something he knows full well he cannot do, and dodged the very simple question of "why do you see my ID?" multiple times. When he didn't get what he wanted he resorted to prolonged knocking of his windshield with the exclusive purpose to annoy to the driver, who at that point had done nothing except not show him his ID because he had no reason to.

His behavior was unprofessional and unjustified. Maybe you think this is professional because it didn't result in the driver being shot in the back and killed, but that doesn't mean everyone should lower their standards accordingly.

No, I am saying that there will be a human element in situations. One can still feel flustered yet present himself or herself in an entirely professional manner. Patience is a huge part in this job along with your ability to communicate with people. You have to have a thick skin in order to do this job. Others are right in that scrutiny is applied to other professional careers but a grumpy or impatient nurse won't send folks on a rant online. You know? If a surgeon loses his cool during surgery, then yeah, huge issue. I'm just not seeing the comparison in this individual case.

I think it's highly possible that he didn't have any cause but also highly likely that he did. Why would the unit be in the parking lot looking for people sitting in cars? Odds are that there was a call for service, but more than likely the officer realized it was a silly call. Of course, we still want to run active warrants or to see if folks are on probation or parole so he stuck it out hoping to get his information.

But he didn't demand the ID at any point; there's a big difference between sternly demanding ("give me") and politely asking for identification. The officer even continued to be polite thorought the scenario, calling him Mr. Williams once he saw his name. He tried to talk with him, but the driver used profanity at him and decided to be difficult for the sake of it. I watched it through again and couldn't find anything that showcased a bully mindset.

Can we agree the officer was polite? I can agree the knocking was excessive due to the duration.

 

[wsoxfan1214]

Fuck the cops.

This video was hilarious, but seriously, are you twelve years old?

 

[J10]

This video was hilarious, but seriously, are you twelve years old?

When I do what I do I do what I'm doing but I'm doing it like I'm doing it for TV.

 

[A Link to the Past]

This video was hilarious, but seriously, are you twelve years old?

12-year-olds don't gripe about police abuse

 

[JDSN]

12-year-olds don't gripe about police abuse

Yeah, they also kinda get shot too.

 

[Dali]

No, I am saying that there will be a human element in situations. One can still feel flustered yet present himself or herself in an entirely professional manner. Patience is a huge part in this job along with your ability to communicate with people. You have to have a thick skin in order to do this job. Others are right in that scrutiny is applied to other professional careers but a grumpy or impatient nurse won't send folks on a rant online. You know? If a surgeon loses his cool during surgery, then yeah, huge issue. I'm just not seeing the comparison in this individual case.

I think it's highly possible that he didn't have any cause but also highly likely that he did. Why would the unit be in the parking lot looking for people sitting in cars? Odds are that there was a call for service, but more than likely the officer realized it was a silly call. Of course, we still want to run active warrants or to see if folks are on probation or parole so he stuck it out hoping to get his information.

But he didn't demand the ID at any point; there's a big difference between sternly demanding ("give me") and politely asking for identification. The officer even continued to be polite thorought the scenario, calling him Mr. Williams once he saw his name. He tried to talk with him, but the driver used profanity at him and decided to be difficult for the sake of it. I watched it through again and couldn't find anything that showcased a bully mindset.

Can we agree the officer was polite? I can agree the knocking was excessive due to the duration.

A grumpy nurse doesn't have the power to put an arrest on your record because his son made straight fucking f's on his report card.

Edit: and an officer in your face for no reason is instantly not polite. Polite would be leaving dude's presence altogether. If I knocked on your car window that long when i made clear I want nothing to do with you would you call me polite?

 

[akira28]

I think it's highly possible that he didn't have any cause but also highly likely that he did. Why would the unit be in the parking lot looking for people sitting in cars? Odds are that there was a call for service, but more than likely the officer realized it was a silly call. Of course, we still want to run active warrants or to see if folks are on probation or parole so he stuck it out hoping to get his information.

Police go on fishing expeditions in high traffic/high crime areas.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

The cops should have just answered his question. I don't think they were rude, but they mishandled this case and wasted everyone's time.

 

[FLAguy954]

Dumb ass cop. All he did was sit in his car.

Seriously, what a bitch-ass cop.

 

[Patrol]

A grumpy nurse doesn't have the power to put an arrest on your record because his son made straight fucking f's on his report card.

Edit: and an officer in your face for no reason is instantly not polite. Polite would be leaving dude's presence altogether. If I knocked on your car window that long when i made clear I want nothing to do with you would you call me polite?

The officer was not in his face at all. To how do you define such?

And yes, I would find that very impolite if your average Joe constantly knocked on my window and I told them to go away. Things are very different if a police officer is trying to contact me and I'm going out of my way to be immature towards him/her.

 

[LaserBuddha]

is this type of behavior accepted by most people? pull out a camera and start acting like a fucking juvenile jack ass in front of cops? what is the purpose of with holding his id card? or answering which room hes staying in? could have probably be done with it in a few minutes if he had complied. instead he turns on a camera to record his bullshit so he can show world star how legit he is.

Bye Felicia.

 

[EatinOlives]

The officer was not in his face at all. To how do you define such?

And yes, I would find that very impolite if your average Joe constantly knocked on my window and I told them to go away. Things are very different if a police officer is trying to contact me and I'm going out of my way to be immature towards him/her.

An officer approaching you with his flashlight tapping at the window saying "Can I see your ID?" IS in his face. The man wasn't doing anything suspicious. He was eating a meal inside his own car in the parking lot of a hotel he's staying in, nothing he's doing justifies an officer asking him to identify himself.

You're being tone deaf about why it's him in particular who got annoyed at the officer doing what he did. This happens to black people very very frequently. The officer didn't wait for any suspicious activity or behavior that might lead toward a robbery. He instead saw a black person sitting in his car for some amount of time and probably thought "black? In a car? In a hotel? Hmm I doubt he's staying in a room. Chances are he's about to break into a room!" Asking for confirmation that he's staying in the hotel isn't a simple form of identification. That's the officer saying "you better have a reason to be loitering, mister!". That's not the attitude an officer displays toward a white soccer mom eating in her car at a hotel.

The driver doesn't need to "prove" that he's doing nothing wrong. He doesn't need to "prove" to him that he's staying in that hotel. And an officer doesn't approach anyone and ask for ID if he doesn't have a reason to do that.

 

[Patrol]

An officer approaching you with his flashlight tapping at the window saying "Can I see your ID?" IS in his face. The man wasn't doing anything suspicious. He was eating a meal inside his own car in the parking lot of a hotel he's staying in, nothing he's doing justifies an officer asking him to identify himself.

You're being tone deaf about why it's him in particular who got annoyed at the officer doing what he did. This happens to black people very very frequently. The officer didn't wait for any suspicious activity or behavior that might lead toward a robbery. He instead saw a black person sitting in his car for some amount of time and probably thought "black? In a car? In a hotel? Hmm I doubt he's staying in a room. Chances are he's about to break into a room!" Asking for confirmation that he's staying in the hotel isn't a simple form of identification. That's the officer saying "you better have a reason to be loitering, mister!". That's not the attitude an officer displays toward a white soccer mom eating in her car at a hotel.

The driver doesn't need to "prove" that he's doing nothing wrong. He doesn't need to "prove" to him that he's staying in that hotel. And an officer doesn't approach anyone and ask for ID if he doesn't have a reason to do that.

I disagree. Clearly separated by a window, cracked by an inch or two, in a relaxed mantra. "In your face" is a hostile and aggressive mantra which typically necessitates a physical response due to violating one's personal space. Saying the officer was in his face is a huge stretch.

The video does not present anything inherently suspicious, but it's clear the video does not paint the entire picture as I've already discussed earlier in this thread.

 

[Erigu]

The video does not present anything inherently suspicious, but it's clear the video does not paint the entire picture

I like how that argument shows up so often in threads like this... "Hey, you don't know what happened before the video began/after it ended! In fact, it's downright suspicious that it didn't begin earlier/ended later! Clearly, we're missing something, here!"
Or clearly, like the cop in that video (who was so forthcoming when asked why he was bothering the driver), you have nothing to go on.

 

[Patrol]

I like how that argument shows up so often in threads like this... "Hey, you don't know what happened before the video began/after it ended! In fact, it's downright suspicious that it didn't begin earlier/ended later! Clearly, we're missing something, here!"
Or clearly, like the cop in that video (who was so forthcoming when asked why he was bothering the driver), you have nothing to go on.

Speculation can only be done from any angle here, and thus making sweeping declaratives without evidence isn't very helpful here.

 

[onadesertedisland]

The video does not present anything inherently suspicious, but it's clear the video does not paint the entire picture as I've already discussed earlier in this thread.

You state an affirmative to an inconclusive. How do you come to that position with certainty when faced with evidence? If you are an officer, do you leave that uncertainty with evidence you have gathered yourself?

 

[Patrol]

You state an affirmative to an inconclusive. How do you come to that position with certainty when faced with evidence? If you are an officer, do you leave that uncertainty with evidence you have gathered yourself?

To what evidence are you referring?

 

[LaserBuddha]

To what evidence are you referring?

How do you assert that something relevant happened off-camera to begin with?

 

[Marion Cobretti]

Do no one know the answer to my convertible question?

 

[LaserBuddha]

Do no one know the answer to my convertible question?

Roll down the windows. No window to knock on. What can the cop do now? Nothing.