SomedayTheFire
Member
Since we're using made up percentages that is 100% not true. Look around in every day life, there is rampant sexism and racism and all other forms of discrimination daily.
No skin thick enough: the daily harassment of women in the game industry
Since we're using made up percentages that is 100% not true. Look around in every day life, there is rampant sexism and racism and all other forms of discrimination daily.
You go on Facebook?
Its like that in all walks of life, they will always be a group who can not accept change or differences. Its problematic. Even though we are all equal, it will never change the fact that we are all different and that difference will always be a factor in the way people perceive each other, as people will always feel a need to be superior to others so they use any means necessary to degrade others.
BruiserBear
Banned
It's hard to even imagine HR would be necessary. Unless the entire employee force is made up of scumbags I'd think messages like the ones in the OP would elicit immediate reactions.
OK, I wasn't sure as I refuse to click on Polygon articles.
Yeah, the internet can be a pretty lawless place.
Any visit to a political website is enough to prove that's not true.
A lot of people just don't care.
I would imagine it would be hard to verify that. It's really easy to just fake all of the above if it comes to it.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
The internet is a fucked up place. The unfortunate reality is that shit like this happens, often.
BabyFaceKillah
Member
I was having such a good day until I read that first line in the first quote.
IDK why its so hard for people to treat each other as equals.
IDK why its so hard for people to treat each other as equals.
It does happen
Just have to take a look at the twitter accounts of the call of duty community managers
But it's still pretty obvious that women receive more harassment.
I know most of these threats are just assholes being assholes online, but i still have to wonder what mental process there is, behind saying something like this (or those in the OP's article) to a complete stranger.
It's really hard to wrap your head around it.
My best guess is some teenager wanting to be edgy and venting out his frustrations on others, but i'm not sure that applies to a lot of these.
No ones saying it's just the game industry.
How incredibly shortsighted. Now, if you say anything online that someone vehemently disagrees with, people that disagree with you online can now call you up/visit you and harass you in real life.
Congratulations, you just made a problem a million times worse.
PhoenixFyre
Member
So I'm going to regret this later, but here goes.
I'm growing really weary of the division this sort of thing seems to bring. Right now the hot topic in gaming is women in games and the industry. I don't think anyone rational is denying women get treated like shit, and that's awful. However, whenever something along the lines of that "myth, men are bullied just as much. truth: women get it way worse" thing pops up, it annoys me.
As much as I think Phis Fish is an absolute tosser, that guy was absolutely decimated by the public. And I can't remember the guy who took the blame for nerfing CoD's sniper, but people threatened (disturbingly frequently) to rape his wife and daughter, force him to watch, and murder him.
Hell, I'm a no name Let's Player and someone threatened me over an LP of The Walking Dead.
My point is that violent and vitriolic nonsense do affect every gender in the gaming industry, and absolutely no one is safe from threats of rape and murder. I don't see many articles popping up about how men are treated shitty in the industry from fans or co workers but I think it's pretty obvious it happens. But then the general consensus is that men don't need protecting, so I guess it's cool to ignore them. Sexism can cut both ways.
I don't think this is overwhelmingly tilted towards men or women. I think it's tilted towards easily accessible personalities in a massive and growing industry. As more women become reachable through social media and become public faces with public personas, more women are going to get treated the way the men have. it isn't right, it isn't fair, but it isn't because they're women. It's because people are horrible and they are easy to reach now.
That's at least on the fan level. As for workplace harassment, that's just close quarters scumbaggery which thankfully has a better chance of being dealt with. Even if people in the office won't listen, the court of public opinion can be pretty powerful.
I'm growing really weary of the division this sort of thing seems to bring. Right now the hot topic in gaming is women in games and the industry. I don't think anyone rational is denying women get treated like shit, and that's awful. However, whenever something along the lines of that "myth, men are bullied just as much. truth: women get it way worse" thing pops up, it annoys me.
As much as I think Phis Fish is an absolute tosser, that guy was absolutely decimated by the public. And I can't remember the guy who took the blame for nerfing CoD's sniper, but people threatened (disturbingly frequently) to rape his wife and daughter, force him to watch, and murder him.
Hell, I'm a no name Let's Player and someone threatened me over an LP of The Walking Dead.
My point is that violent and vitriolic nonsense do affect every gender in the gaming industry, and absolutely no one is safe from threats of rape and murder. I don't see many articles popping up about how men are treated shitty in the industry from fans or co workers but I think it's pretty obvious it happens. But then the general consensus is that men don't need protecting, so I guess it's cool to ignore them. Sexism can cut both ways.
I don't think this is overwhelmingly tilted towards men or women. I think it's tilted towards easily accessible personalities in a massive and growing industry. As more women become reachable through social media and become public faces with public personas, more women are going to get treated the way the men have. it isn't right, it isn't fair, but it isn't because they're women. It's because people are horrible and they are easy to reach now.
That's at least on the fan level. As for workplace harassment, that's just close quarters scumbaggery which thankfully has a better chance of being dealt with. Even if people in the office won't listen, the court of public opinion can be pretty powerful.
Netherscourge
Banned
I think they would start to care once they are completely exposed. Because then, it's not only themselves they have to worry about, but their families and friends. Maybe even their co-workers and bosses, who would have grounds to terminate their employment.
Look at the outcry people had over Blizzard's failed "Real ID" attempt to show people's real names on web forums in in-games....
And that was just their first and last names...
-add an actual street address and telephone # to that and you suddenly have REAL accountability to deal with.
Dragonborn
Member
Jesus, I mean, hate is expected on the internet, guys aren't exempt from it. Personally, I've gotten my share of hate, some of it pretty vile, and I find the key is ignoring it (I find, for example, that Reddit and Twitter are ripe for that kind of stuff), but I can say, I've never gotten anything near as bad as what that email said. That's just disturbing. Furthermore, it's easy for me to brush it off since it's not as common. I imagine getting a constant stream of nasty comments would eventually break one down a bit.
Still, look at all the hate people like Gies attract within the community. It's not all entirely about Gender, but there's no denying it's effect.
Still, look at all the hate people like Gies attract within the community. It's not all entirely about Gender, but there's no denying it's effect.
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
It won't stop it, i can almost guarantee that. Sadly.
Therefore we can't talk about the specific ways it manifests in the video game industry and possible ways to address it? Cripes, people.
If they're saying things like that and they know your address, it's worth taking seriously no matter who you think it is.
Yeah, I can admit to doing that when Anita did her videos, but I quickly realised that what I was doing was wrong and very childish.
Indeed, which is why I was surprise to see Female during Nintendo Treehouse at E3 enjoying games.
So you decided to waste everyone's time in a thread about an article you refuse to read because...?
No, real talk, go to any political website that has facebook comments. People use their real name, aside their real pictures, and with one click, you can get where they live, who their family and friends are, what their pets are, their daily schedule...
These people DO NOT CARE. There are people threatening to murder the president speaking with 0 anonymity.
If anything, it would make it worse because these people who don't care suddenly have a place to get physical.
Omegasquash
Member
Greater internet dickwad theory. Much as PA gets (justly due) criticism here, I think this still rings true in many cases.
The Librarian
Banned
Oh god, that is horrible. It's really disheartening that women get treated like that.
I know Allison Stroll and Jessice Shea from 343. They're really nice, wonderful women. I hope they've never had to deal with this kind of stuff. It makes me glad to see women like them working in the industry.
I know Allison Stroll and Jessice Shea from 343. They're really nice, wonderful women. I hope they've never had to deal with this kind of stuff. It makes me glad to see women like them working in the industry.
BruiserBear
Banned
Oh please. I didn't waste anyone's time. I asked a specific question about woman who work within actual companies.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I really dislike the way the anecdote you quoted is put in the same category as making hateful threats and abusive comments - they are not the same thing.
Not to be dismissive but just because one guy gets defensive when challenged by a female colleague does not mean everyone reacts that way. You can't stereotype a whole gender based on a single individual's reaction. And even then, instinctively becoming defensive with a co-worker is long way from writing hate-mail to people you've never met on the internet.
The_Almighty_Swan
Banned
My wife works in HR and you'd be really surprised what gets swept under the rug from what gets appropriately dealt with..... It's such a double standard it's criminal what some people can get away with from what others can't.
You don't see how everyone having their address and phone numbers in the open could actually backfire, when we're talking about harassment?
"we"? The only thing in common with these assholes is we consume some of the same media.
No doubt it's a serious problem that has to be dealt with, but i don't feel like associating with this kind of people in any way, shape or form.
I'd like to point out that these testimonials seem to have to do with women in the industry who have "public" jobs - very sadly, when you're a woman and you have a public job interacting with the public, if you're in a remotely male sector you'll have these idiotic douchebags coming out of the woodwork because they are angry at women. It's a problem that plagues society as a whole, and the large parts of the MRA movement who instead of focusing on actual male issues (and there are quite a few that are as valid as what feminism is defending) just blindly attack women as a sort of weird anti-hardcore feminist movement.
(This is really, *REALLY* not to dismiss what also happens to women in the industry who hold non-public jobs, nor does it play down what these women are going through with this idiotic behavior).
Now, as someone who's been working in the industry for quite a while now and discussing it with my female colleagues, they don't seem to have been the target of such attacks while at work. Maybe they were lucky, maybe not, I don't know. What seems to happen, though, when women enter a team that was lead by men only is that the guys seem to change their behavior immediately and try to accomodate the women much more than attack them, which I guess is a good thing. Hell, from my (albeit very limited) experience it's more women who attack other women and who constantly spew shit at each other. I'm not exactly sure why it is like that, but it's what I've noticed. I have honestly seem more drama between women than between men or between genders. It's just baffling.
(This is really, *REALLY* not to dismiss what also happens to women in the industry who hold non-public jobs, nor does it play down what these women are going through with this idiotic behavior).
Now, as someone who's been working in the industry for quite a while now and discussing it with my female colleagues, they don't seem to have been the target of such attacks while at work. Maybe they were lucky, maybe not, I don't know. What seems to happen, though, when women enter a team that was lead by men only is that the guys seem to change their behavior immediately and try to accomodate the women much more than attack them, which I guess is a good thing. Hell, from my (albeit very limited) experience it's more women who attack other women and who constantly spew shit at each other. I'm not exactly sure why it is like that, but it's what I've noticed. I have honestly seem more drama between women than between men or between genders. It's just baffling.
veritassin
Banned
"The Myth: Everyone in the games industry experiences harassment. Women are just too sensitive about it.
The Reality: If you are a woman in the industry with a critical opinion, you will get a disproportional amount of criticism, hostility, and scrutiny compared to men."
I'd really like to see this proven as something that is generally true rather than something that happens sometimes.
The Reality: If you are a woman in the industry with a critical opinion, you will get a disproportional amount of criticism, hostility, and scrutiny compared to men."
I'd really like to see this proven as something that is generally true rather than something that happens sometimes.
Bring him to court for what?
These articles and threads are becoming almost masturbatory. We believe everything in the article(especially the death threats for some reason) and then proclaim how we would never do it. and how it makes us sick blah blah blah.
Okay, you're a great person, but what exactly should we be doing? Talk about it? Haven't we been talking about it for the last four years? Ban people from SM sites? They will just make troll accounts
This is such a stupid idea on so many levels, I mean there's barely any fucking point posting anything on the internet at that point if it makes practically all your personal information readily available to every tom dick and harry that wants to find it.
"WE" are better than this.
"They" don't care that "we" are better than them.
Probably when we actually start doing something about it rather than deciding to ignore it because, "it's hard".
Mixolydian
Member
You're right, though I understand what he was trying to say.
These are some serious sociopathic people. There are times where I have to scold myself for making a joke with friends (not misogynistic or racist, just ill timed and inappropriate for a given situation), but I hate even the *feeling* of knowing I've brought somebody down in some way. I cant imagine actually going through a workday and genuinely feeling ill will and spite for someone based off of their gender.
Edit - Obviously this is going far beyond simply feeling a certain way. Just illustrating that I - like many others - can't understand this behavior.
Captive audiences for socially maladjusted individuals? If they said that in reality they run the risk of getting arrested or assaulted. In games or online, people are supposed to shrug it off for some reason.
The number of people being jerks on the internet with their real names and faces calls it into question, though.
I would argue that it's more about the impersonal nature of internet communication causing some people to lose the filter they'd have in person, as opposed to anonymity leading to bad behavior apropos of nothing. Kinda like Mel Gibson going on anti-Semitic rants when drunk; alcohol didn't induce those sentiments, it just made him stop hiding them.
The Librarian
Banned
Er, dude, the more we keep talking about it, the better it will be for women in the industry because it makes it socially unacceptable.
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
Tone policing at its finest.
I never said "it's hard". Awareness is great but it only goes so far. Its just not something that is going to happen overnight. People who would want to see change can only change their own behaviour and educate themselves. Others do not want to hear it. I'm saying its deeply seeded and the people that say things like that aren't going to read it and think "wow I should change".
entremet
Member
If you're star performer, you can get away with a lot. I've seen it myself.
the part about the YouTube comments for the 2010 PAX East panel is something that struck me before. Video game videos with women are littered with sexist comments about how they look. it's discusting really. These comments are probably only matched by insults directed at overweight people...
i think one of the issues is that sites are nowadays so desperate for user interactions (very important metric to generate revenue) that they'll have the most vial insulting shitbags comment on their site rather than banning such behavior.
the only reason i read gat is because people are sane here and unacceptable language is sanctioned. the internet should be like gaf.
i think one of the issues is that sites are nowadays so desperate for user interactions (very important metric to generate revenue) that they'll have the most vial insulting shitbags comment on their site rather than banning such behavior.
the only reason i read gat is because people are sane here and unacceptable language is sanctioned. the internet should be like gaf.
I used to believe in the Greater Internet Dickwad theory, until my company did a joint project with CNN where I HAD to read the comments.
These people do not care. They just don't.
Natureboy99
Banned
If you are a gamer who buys games with sexualized women, YOU are part of the problem. Anyways, this pretty much confirms my generalization of game developers, that many of them are overgrown man children who became obsessed with video games at age 13 and never matured socially beyond that age. Explains the really immature and unrealistic levels of gory violence in games too.
Gamers, stop buying games made by these horrible people. If you don't you are really just taking steps towards becoming one of them. You are what you eat.
Gamers, stop buying games made by these horrible people. If you don't you are really just taking steps towards becoming one of them. You are what you eat.
Dice//
Banned
Speak up more. That's all. People are going to continue this until it's socially unacceptable.
My recommendation to you, and others who don't feel the subject is worth discussing, is to not post in the thread. This thread is about sexism and misogyny in the video game industry. If that discussion doesn't interest you, don't post.