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[BlackTron]

I think it's great that Microsoft are investing and working with AMD to create this "Legal loop hole" you speak of. It means consumers win.

I don't know why anyone would have an issue with a company investing to create a better eco system. It doesnt make sense to me.

My point is that when someone says the result will be a gimped PC, they aren't really wrong. This thing, as a PC, will probably be much more gimped than a Steam Deck. What you get in exchange is playing native Xbox software as well. Nothing is wrong with that. But any PC with user freedom taken away especially Windows itself, is a gimped PC. In your cost-benefit analysis you'll have to compare a PC against the Xbox-PC that does less stuff (aka gimped).

 

[Ozriel]

My point is that when someone says the result will be a gimped PC, they aren't really wrong. This thing, as a PC, will probably be much more gimped than a Steam Deck. What you get in exchange is playing native Xbox software as well. Nothing is wrong with that. But any PC with user freedom taken away especially Windows itself, is a gimped PC. In your cost-benefit analysis you'll have to compare a PC against the Xbox-PC that does less stuff (aka gimped).

The weakest of their devices will be the upcoming handheld ROG Ally devices…and those are significantly more powerful than the Steam Deck, with broader compatibility and out of the box access to multiple storefronts.

The flagship 'console' is touted by MS to focus on power and will have AI upscaling and framegen built in.

You Arguing confidently from a position of ignorance is quite the thing indeed.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

This is pretty big one.

Open market console - best thing a console manufacturer can do.

And push the entry level price beyond most people's means?

Yeah, let's push gaming back into nerds bedrooms like it was in the 80s, great business

 

[BlackTron]

The weakest of their devices will be the upcoming handheld ROG Ally devices…and those are significantly more powerful than the Steam Deck, with broader compatibility and out of the box access to multiple storefronts.

The flagship 'console' is touted by MS to focus on power and will have AI upscaling and framegen built in.

You Arguing confidently from a position of ignorance is quite the thing indeed.

Read my post again after coffee.

 

[Ozriel]

Read my post again after coffee.

That's as silly as claiming the Steamdeck is 'gimped' because you have to reboot into the desktop to do desktop things.

You're going to be able to switch to the full desktop mode for the Xbox Ally X, just like you can do on the Ally, Ally X etc.

 

[demigod]

They did nothing good for the industry.
Only damages. Paid online, Gamepass training beggars and making games impossible to profit. Death of exclusives which is bad because exclusives were good.
Oh.... and their games suck ass.

So yeah. when they do what they are promising now and when it will result in a good outcome, then you can brag about that part. Not yet.

As for me - open console market is THE WORST that can happen to a console. It's no longer a console.

You forgot horse armor.

 

[rofif]

You forgot horse armor.

how funny.
thats bethesda... in 2006. cmon
xbox is enemy of gaming. when will you people understand that. they are terrible and did nothing to warrant any fanbase

 

[KungFucius]

anyone cares? this is just a pc with extra steps.
Makes no sense. if someone wants a console, they want a console. Not a big windows steam deck without steamos
After xbox 360, microsoft forgot what a console is and who it is aimed towards. Let's hopw sony doesn't follow in their stupid steps like they always do, the idiots.

Huh? You think Steam OS has mass market appeal. Nobody gives a shit what the OS is, they care what the thing costs and what it can do. And some people actually want PCs instead of consoles. I have PCs hooked up to 2 85 inch TVs, it is a better gaming experience. Plus I can post on forums and shit.

 

[BlackTron]

That's as silly as claiming the Steamdeck is 'gimped' because you have to reboot into the desktop to do desktop things.

You're going to be able to switch to the full desktop mode for the Xbox Ally X, just like you can do on the Ally, Ally X etc.

Yes, because the Xbox Ally X is just a ROG Ally. It doesn't even play Xbox software, it's just another PC handheld.

I wouldn't use it as proof we will get Windows on the new console, with their painstakingly crafted solution that involves making and sending out non-profit Xbox silicon just to get the Xbox store back in the box.

Thus why I think this would probably be a MORE gimped PC than Steam Deck. I stated bluntly that I don't know but based on what we do, it's looking like a gimped PC. For example "The OS itself, which is already mostly Windows, can run Windows games with the right packages / extensions loaded" if this happens something tells me you won't be able to load mods for that game, and if you can by going into Windows, you would probably be double-installing the game and just playing it out of Windows. I'm just skeptical on all this happening on an Xbox (a "real" Xbox, not ROG Ally with Xbox label).

 

[Three]

I do not think it is a war between Microsoft and Linux. I as much as said so when I said I do not think Microsoft views Linux as a competitor. There does not have to be a war for Microsoft to go after an emerging market. I am concerned because I did not get a clear answer if these devices were going to be OS locked similar to how consoles work. If that is not the case, I am very excited.

It 100% is going to be OS locked like a phone is OS locked. There may be ways to install another OS by jumping through hoops but they will 100% try to prevent it. I doubt steamOS will even work on the hardware out of the box and people would have to start some project with that goal which takes possible years.
I believe the reason they're even doing this is to protect windows as the default gaming OS from new threats like steamOS otherwise they would have just stuck with software and didn't need a hardware partnership (like Ally and now this).

 

[Ozriel]

It 100% is going to be OS locked like a phone is OS locked. There may be ways to install another OS by jumping through hoops but they will 100% try to prevent it. I doubt steamOS will even work on the hardware out of the box and people would have to start some project with that goal which takes possible years.
I believe the reason they're even doing this is to protect windows as the default gaming OS from new threats like steamOS otherwise they would have just stuck with software and didn't need a hardware partnership (like Ally and now this).

If they're locking this, It'd be as an anti-piracy or anti-hacking or anti-virus measure.
Linux and SteamOS are barely a blip in the grand scheme of things. Most of the advantages SteamOS brings like the better user experience are already being tackled via the new user interface, and on a 'console' device, stuff like better sleep and power management are irrelevant.

 

[reinking]

It 100% is going to be OS locked like a phone is OS locked. There may be ways to install another OS by jumping through hoops but they will 100% try to prevent it. I doubt steamOS will even work on the hardware out of the box and people would have to start some project with that goal which takes possible years.
I believe the reason they're even doing this is to protect windows as the default gaming OS from new threats like steamOS otherwise they would have just stuck with software and didn't need a hardware partnership (like Ally and now this).

That is my apprehension in being too excited about this. It squeezes something like Steam OS out of that market just as it is starting to become a thing. I have been thinking about moving to mini-PC/GPU dock for my next PC instead of building it. I will be watching this as we get closer to release. Worst case scenario I go back to a SFF build to keep my options open. Best case scenario, MS does something good.

 

[Bry0]

When they started saying hardware bc this is all that really started making sense anymore. I think the idea sounds really cool tbh.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

When they started saying hardware bc this is all that really started making sense anymore. I think the idea sounds really cool tbh.

As per usual, Microsoft didn't invent this. Sony did it with PS2 and PS3 launch model. And cool as it were, custom silicon = costs. And if it was just for BC then it doesn't even make it more powerful.

The value proposition is to just buy a spare Series S as backup for when your current Xbox dies. But it is your money, you decide what to do with it.

 

[reinking]

If they're locking this, It'd be as an anti-piracy or anti-hacking or anti-virus measure.
Linux and SteamOS are barely a blip in the grand scheme of things. Most of the advantages SteamOS brings like the better user experience are already being tackled via the new user interface, and on a 'console' device, stuff like better sleep and power management are irrelevant.

Steam OS is just now taking off and will remain "barely a blip" because of tactics like this (if it turns out to be true).

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They did nothing good for the industry.
Only damages. Paid online, Gamepass training beggars and making games impossible to profit. Death of exclusives which is bad because exclusives were good.
Oh.... and their games suck ass.

So yeah. when they do what they are promising now and when it will result in a good outcome, then you can brag about that part. Not yet.

As for me - open console market is THE WORST that can happen to a console. It's no longer a console.

Turning your console into open market needs a lot of conviction.

My guess is once people use it, will be hard to go back to closed ones.

And push the entry level price beyond most people's means?

Yeah, let's push gaming back into nerds bedrooms like it was in the 80s, great business

Others are not doing it. It could be counterproductive for them.

Xbox hardware can take these risks, they are in that position.

 

[Dane]

Consoles are not just pcs. People keep repeating that but it's not true. Maybe if you are a bad dev and don't use anything console allows for. The architecture is completely different

You can literally buy off the shelf parts to make a Xbox home made devkit for OG and 360, the latter even had infamously the Mac kits exposed at E3/GC 2005 as the beta kits were Dual CPU G5 with a Radeon. Xbox One had Durango kits being sold on chinese websites prior to the official announcement.

 

[buenoblue]

If a PC with multiple storefronts is "gimped" what is a PC with one store front that is also "locked down"(Playstation)? Extra gimped? Also, screw exclusives. Anti-consumer trash that has kept Bloodborne gimped af for more than a decade.

It sounds like to me that steam/epic games are gonna need a patch to work on these xbox pcs. Your not gonna have access to traditional windows and be free in install anything, it's gonna be an app. I think.people.will just buy a pc or a trading console. this super expensive middle ground is not a good idea.

 

[Bry0]

As per usual, Microsoft didn't invent this. Sony did it with PS2 and PS3 launch model. And cool as it were, custom silicon = costs. And if it was just for BC then it doesn't even make it more powerful.

The value proposition is to just buy a spare Series S as backup for when your current Xbox dies. But it is your money, you decide what to do with it.

What's cool is the whole package, ie oem options and windows games. Regarding BC, This is not quite the same since we are talking x86 hardware bc for the x86 consoles. No different from how both current systems already do ps4/one bc. I'm sure 360 and older is still done via software. No reason to waste die space in that at this point. The way ps2/3 did it via hardware was different from what this will be, I can almost guarantee you that, they ain't putting entire separate chips for hardware bc in this thing. That made sense at the time 20 years ago but is not necessary anymore.

 

[lastmessiah]

The walled garden is the reason these console manufacturers are able to subsidise hardware and why the video game industry exists. On top of that the cut they get allows more investment into the ecosystem, that being the hardware and software that takes a massive investment to create. Quite frankly it's the reason gaming has blown up the way it has over the last 20 years and the emergence of AAA games is because of what Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have contributed because of their walled gardens. PC has been the beneficiary of that too as PC gaming was a different beast before the emergence of the modern console market.

What you're wishing for is essentially a market completely controlled by Microsoft. Do you think MS will not turn the screw and fuck over consumers once they have the market to themselves? They are not a charity, they're in it for profit as all publicly traded companies are.

You all go on about needing MS around to keep Sony from monopolising the market but have no qualms when it's MS.

I would love for the "AAA" gaming industry to die.

 

[rofif]

You can literally buy off the shelf parts to make a Xbox home made devkit for OG and 360, the latter even had infamously the Mac kits exposed at E3/GC 2005 as the beta kits were Dual CPU G5 with a Radeon. Xbox One had Durango kits being sold on chinese websites prior to the official announcement.

ps5 is not like that. that's why it's a better console hardware

 

[rofif]

I would love for the "AAA" gaming industry to die.

then the gaming would die as a whole
C clappedcheeks is correct

 

[DragonNCM]

I don't even know what Xbox even is anymore. A console? Platform? A pc? Handheld? A service?

All of that together

 

[lastmessiah]

then the gaming would die as a whole
C clappedcheeks is correct

Nah.

 

[rofif]

I don't even know what Xbox even is anymore. A console? Platform? A pc? Handheld? A service?

It's something you can forget exists.
They lost in the console market because their consoles are not console enough, have no exclusives and what they have sucks.
So they pivot and suddenly it's great because "we are everything.
I am really surprised this loosers pivot works on anyone but it does.

 

[Dane]

ps5 is not like that. that's why it's a better console hardware

PS5 is 95% the same hardware as Xbox Series, same with PS4 and Xbox One.

 

[Bry0]

It's something you can forget exists.
They lost in the console market because their consoles are not console enough, have no exclusives and what they have sucks.
So they pivot and suddenly it's great because "we are everything.
I am really surprised this loosers pivot works on anyone but it does.

Why do your posts sound so mad?

 

[rofif]

PS5 is 95% the same hardware as Xbox Series, same with PS4 and Xbox One.

chargpt

" Summary:

• Saying they are "95% the same" is misleading.
• They're based on similar AMD PC-like architecture, but the implementation, custom hardware features, speeds, and priorities differ a lot.
• It's more accurate to say:
  
  

  "They share a similar AMD x86 architecture, but the actual hardware performance and design choices are different enough that it's far from identical."

"
And that's only for hardware. software is completely different.

 

[rofif]

Why do your posts sound so mad?

I am not ?
Xbox doesn't deserve any trust and any leeway.
They've not earned any of that.
It's facts. I am not mad.
I am only annoyed that they lost, they pivot and people are eating this shit up. like... cmon.

 

[adamsapple]

chargpt

 

[Bry0]

I am not ?
Xbox doesn't deserve any trust and any leeway.
They've not earned any of that.
It's facts. I am not mad.
I am only annoyed that they lost, they pivot and people are eating this shit up. like... cmon.

When you're losing in a market you have to pivot. Sure they could just quit, but they decided instead to pivot. Why not? My own employer did a pivot after some failed products and they are doing much better now. This new strategy could very well bomb too.

 

[rofif]

it's way smarter than you though

 

[rofif]

When you're losing in a market you have to pivot. Sure they could just quit, but they decided instead to pivot. Why not? My own employer did a pivot after some failed products and they are doing much better now.

sure but the problem is that they are dragging gaming in the mud with them. They did that when they were succesfull and even more so now.
And if they are to deserve any praise and trust in new business... they have to show that and earn that.
As a console and game maker? they are 100% dead to me. 0 interest.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I am not ?
Xbox doesn't deserve any trust and any leeway.
They've not earned any of that.
It's facts. I am not mad.
I am only annoyed that they lost, they pivot and people are eating this shit up. like... cmon.

Cmon dude.

Are you enjoying GAAS pivot that much after SP titles in PS4 era ?

 

[Orbital2060]

I am not ?
Xbox doesn't deserve any trust and any leeway.
They've not earned any of that.
It's facts. I am not mad.
I am only annoyed that they lost, they pivot and people are eating this shit up. like... cmon.

 

[Bry0]

sure but the problem is that they are dragging gaming in the mud with them. They did that when they were succesfull and even more so now.
And if they are to deserve any praise and trust in new business... they have to show that and earn that.
As a console and game maker? they are 100% dead to me. 0 interest.

Yeah that's fair, they need to earn it, I agree. I still haven't forgiven MS for destroying FASA or trying to charge for Xbox live on pc. Smart to be cautious.

 

[rofif]

Cmon dude.

Are you enjoying GAAS pivot that much after SP titles in PS4 era ?

no, it's terrible and ruining playstation. obviously
I can admit that. So why can't xbots admit their fav brand is much much worse?

 

[adamsapple]

it's way smarter than you though

Who is "Rofif"?

Community Perception

• He sometimes became a target for criticism or "dogpiling" by others. One thread even referred to him as "GAF's official punching bag." neogaf.com

 

[vaibhavpisal]

no, it's terrible and ruining playstation. obviously
I can admit that. So why can't xbots admit their fav brand is much much worse?

Leave the brand then.

Why do you play on it?

I dont say this is ruining xbox cause this is what I want.

 

[Astray]

He was not calling it a "Cold War", but I'm not going to push the issue. Doesn't matter

It's all good we're just discussing in good fun.

 

[rofif]

Who is "Rofif"?

Community Perception

• He sometimes became a target for criticism or "dogpiling" by others. One thread even referred to him as "GAF's official punching bag." neogaf.com

is it difficult to really put that in chatgpt?
Why are you making shit up?

This is what chatgpt says about user rofif on neogaf

Spoiler: chatgpt me

On NeoGAF, "Rofif" is a well-known community member (its username, appearing as "Can't Git Gud" next to their posts). They're a frequent contributor in hardware and gaming discussions, and their persona includes:

---

Notable Posts & Persona

• Hardware enthusiast: In a January 2025 thread, "The time has come… came into possession of 4090", rofif excitedly shared specs of their new RTX 4090 SUPER, complete with images, humor, and bragging about its beastly performance www2.neogaf.com+11neogaf.com+11neogaf.com+11.
• Console vs. PC stance: When debating VRR stuttering on PS5, rofif offered measured input:
  
  

  "it's a different type of stutter..." neogaf.com

• Game library insights: In a thread on physical vs digital games, they noted their hundreds of Steam titles:
  
  

  "The real thing is that digitally we accumulate games… I have 600 steam games for that reason" www2.neogaf.com

• Personality: Their style is blunt, humorous, and irreverent—sometimes outspoken enough to earn flak or even a ban, as seen after a comment about telling someone they "had a potato up their ass" neogaf.com.

---

Community Role

• A veteran user ("Can't Git Gud") active since at least 2022, frequently chiming in on console/PC performance, hardware purchases, and game library habits.
• Known for direct, witty, and sometimes polarizing remarks, often sparking reactions and banter.
• Not a staff or moderator—just a regular but distinctive voice among the NeoGAF membership.

---

Summary

If you've seen lively, humorous takes on VRR stutter, PC vs console quirks, or epic GPU unboxings, that was likely rofif in the thread. They're known for candid commentary, strong opinions, and a sense of humor—qualities that have made them a recognizable and memorable figure in NeoGAF discussions.

Interested in a specific thread or topic where rofif showed up? I can dig in further!

Sources

meanwhile, this is part of what it knows about you, dumbass

"

Persona & Tone

• Witty, irreverent, and unafraid to be blunt—much like rofif—but in their own style.
• Embraces humor and casual slang, yet stays informative.
• Doesn't shy away from criticism or strong reactions about tech and gameplay

"

 

[Proelite]

Definitely. Play Anywhere is just a stopgap, the goal is just have the PC version. The "mini-xbox on a chip" is clever, had already been done before, but is an expensive solution for backwards capability that would have to be retired.

What is this referring to?

 

[Kacho]

It's just an option. Not meltdown worthy.

 

[JCK75]

I think this is a brilliant move personally.

 

[Proelite]

Does this mean that third parties will build machines that have both this "legacy" Xbox APU on board in addition (!) to say an x86 AMD CPU, or will the APU integrate the hw backwards compat from MS and just be one single main processing unit?

Latter.

 

[Punished Miku]

no, it's terrible and ruining playstation. obviously
I can admit that. So why can't xbots admit their fav brand is much much worse?

I always try to stick up for you when you talk Forspoken because I like an underdog and despise dogpiling. But then you turn around and act like this, and it's just odd. There's nothing for me to admit. Believe it or not, I just actually like Xbox, their system, their services, their games, and their future plans. We actually have a difference of opinion. I would honestly struggle to think of anything they're doing that's really even bad at this point except for raising games to $80, but honestly Nintendo did that too and I haven't sworn them off either.

• 1) Hardware - I love the Series S and X. I think it was a smart call to have 2 price points. I think it's mostly delivered on their promises. The systems are silent, well designed aesthetically and I vastly prefer it over that horrendously misshapen plastic disaster of a PS5 sitting on that crappy stand. Quick resume is the best system level feature this gen on any system.
• 2) Services - I love GP and it's pretty much my favorite thing this whole gen. Just more stuff to play than I can handle, at a price point that's crazy good. GOTY level stuff every year since I signed up. Tons of amazing indies and whole genres I would have otherwise skipped. MS Rewards is literally netting me over $15 a month in free money and I use it to buy tons of games. Just Rewards points alone would be enough reason to use Xbox for me this gen. It's almost $200 a year.
• 3) Backwards Compatibility - they invest effort and money into making my purchases count. They're carrying over everything they can from the 1st Xbox and now even going so far as to move it to PC. They're not even going to make a ton of money on this and are just literally hooking me up with my library instead of dropping all of it. Nintendo has dropped my library multiple times. They're also pushing 3rd party publishers to make games dual entitlement on PC with Play Anywhere, helping get me free copies of games. 1000+.
• 4) Games - I love their games and think they've really never been better. Pentiment, Starfield, Avowed, Psychonauts 2 and on and on. I think it's great. And there's a TON of them. Playing Doom now. THPS and Grounded 2 next month. I can't even catch up. And a lot of the games are experimental, AA, or odd genres you don't normally see as much these days.
• 5) Events - they have the best events, every year. It's almost the only thing keeping E3 spirit alive for me.
• 6) Communication - they are much more open about their plans and consistently update their customers. We've known this was their future plans for about 16 months now.

No idea what you're talking about; not just generally, but on any specific issue period I can't even think of what I would be complaining about. At every stage of this gen I'm getting more and paying less. And now we're going to have access to all the PC stores as well, the Epic free games, Steam, the bundles, handhelds. All of it.

 

[adamsapple]

It's just an option. Not meltdown worthy.

He's just having a meltdown .. with his freaking mind

 

[Proelite]

How about memory? How about the physical library? Amd can't provide that.

Memory? The APU will have a memory bus but OEM can use higher density and/or faster chips that the ones in the 1st party HW.

 

[DragonNCM]

My point is that when someone says the result will be a gimped PC, they aren't really wrong. This thing, as a PC, will probably be much more gimped than a Steam Deck. What you get in exchange is playing native Xbox software as well. Nothing is wrong with that. But any PC with user freedom taken away especially Windows itself, is a gimped PC. In your cost-benefit analysis you'll have to compare a PC against the Xbox-PC that does less stuff (aka gimped).

Gimped PC ?
More gimped then Steam Deck ?
And now consoles are not gimped PC ?

Get reality check dude.....consoles will ALWAYS BE GIMPED in that price range even at 1000$ range.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

sure but the problem is that they are dragging gaming in the mud with them. They did that when they were succesfull and even more so now.
And if they are to deserve any praise and trust in new business... they have to show that and earn that.
As a console and game maker? they are 100% dead to me. 0 interest.

Can I ask a serious question and not only directed at you but others do the same in a variety of topics?

If they are 100% dead to you with 0 interest why put so much effort into this thread?

I saw it with people in other thread topics as well saying they had zero interest in a game lets say yet they argued for pages and pages, its not an attack on you