Now that Lisa Su's video dropped today, I can share what I know about next gen "Xbox" since last June.

reinking said:
One of the hot things in that market right now is Steam OS being able to be installed on handheld and miniPC devices. If what you are saying is true, that market is going to get a lot less open and almost impossible for competition when it comes to OS. This would be Microsoft/AMD locking Linux based OS out of that market.
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Depends on who has control over the kernel. For OEMs it's likely them so SteamOs won't be a problem.
 
Wow. Proelite has no shame coming back. This guy is TommyFisher. The guy who pretended to be an insider and jerked us around for months while he made fun of us for believing him in the infamous Xbox Era discord. He also made a mock up of a PS5 controller and tried to fool a mod.

Insane to see him show his face here again right as MS is starting a new round of astroturfing for their new console.

DukeBlueBalls on Discord = DukeBlueBalls on era = Proelite on gaf.

9mvdwHO.jpg
 
rofif said:
Why do you have interest in Xbox? What are you guys seeing in it. Why.
I loved the 360. I loved Xbox. That's why I am here.

If they lost and will not do a real console anymore, that's not Xbox. That's saving the name of the brand.
If bmw goes flat and starts selling shoes with great success and no longer cars… can you really say that bmw is thriving?

Xbox is a classic console brand. But m$ lost the plot and ruined it and big chunk of the market. That's the fact
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I feel like Microsoft were incentivized to throw this generation because their priority was the big ABK acquisition.

Remember that the golden goose in that deal wasn't Activision or Blizzard. It was King, ABK's mobile division.

Even if this acquisition doesn't go anywhere, it still baited Sony into one of the worst acquisitions in the history of the video games industry.
 
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SlimySnake said:
Wow. Proelite has no shame coming back. This guy is TommyFisher. The guy who pretended to be an insider and jerked us around for months while he made fun of us for believing him in the infamous Xbox Era discord. He also made a mock up of a PS5 controller and tried to fool a mod.

Insane to see him show his face here again right as MS is starting a new round of astroturfing for their new console.

DukeBlueBalls on Discord = DukeBlueBalls on era = Proelite on gaf.

9mvdwHO.jpg
Click to expand...
:messenger_tears_of_joy: Damn, crazy to see some people crave attention in their lives this badly. Is it really him? I won't be surprised if it is lol. I've seen a lot crazy things on GAF over the years.
 
This thread effectively ends what has made Xbox's direction such an intriguing and interesting topic to me: the question of how to bridge the console with PC and how the plan really makes any sense until this is explained, which seemed like it would take a real stunt, and whether it would really happen. Well, there it is. Dedicated Xbox chips that curb the legal and technical challenges.

BlackTron

Rumor Hardware Platform  Post in thread '(eXtas1s) Potentially Lots of New Info on Next Xbox(es)'

rodrigolfp said:
What legal reasons? "3rd party" emulators are legal but "1st party" is not??
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Unfortunately valid point. When you buy a game on Xbox, you are buying a license to play said game on Xbox. A publisher, say Capcom, might take issue with Microsoft emulating the Xbox version of Resident Evil on a PC, thereby saving you from having to buy, well, a PC version.

Sure, MS could fix this in a second with their first party games, but across the storefront, it's an impossible legal quagmire. They couldn't even get approval to emulate all the old Xbox games on new Xbox hardware because it was a...
  • Thoughtful
 
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Magic Carpet said:
Still need news on getting older xboxs onto the new devices. Maybe bring back that old concept of Disk to Digital trade in thing.
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Yeah a version of that last bit is needed now. We're allowed to rip music CDs in iTunes to use on any music device able to play digital music. We should be allowed to rip Xbox game discs too to use on any gaming device able to play digital Xbox games.
Why doesn't this exist already on an official level? What's the fear? There is no official market value left in these games anyway. Just give us poor nostalgic souls a way to keep playing the games we used to love. I have tons of discs tucked away in boxes waiting to be revived, the alternative is staying in the boxes until they get disc rot and stop working altogether.
 
SlimySnake said:
Wow. Proelite has no shame coming back. This guy is TommyFisher. The guy who pretended to be an insider and jerked us around for months while he made fun of us for believing him in the infamous Xbox Era discord. He also made a mock up of a PS5 controller and tried to fool a mod.

Insane to see him show his face here again right as MS is starting a new round of astroturfing for their new console.

DukeBlueBalls on Discord = DukeBlueBalls on era = Proelite on gaf.

9mvdwHO.jpg
Click to expand...

Isn't Tommy Fisher permabanned? I would be too if I was an alt. You can try reporting me for being an alt. They have tools to detect this.

Report me if you believe I'm Tommy Fisher.
 
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Sure, I would love a steamdeck-luke experience that could play all my steam, epic and so on games with good fps etc which also works with anti cheat for mp games etc.

Then again, I can buy new a pc today. I don't think I will play competitive fps games on a plane - so a good steamdeck still works fine?

With this and steamdeck os (nice moves btw) it all just boils down to cost vs fps.
 
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Mister Wolf said:
This new machine will let you play your old catalog of Xbox games and new PC games. Who wouldn't want that if they've already invested into the ecosystem.
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MS kinda nuked the ecosystem though.
 
SlimySnake said:
Wow. Proelite has no shame coming back. This guy is TommyFisher. The guy who pretended to be an insider and jerked us around for months while he made fun of us for believing him in the infamous Xbox Era discord. He also made a mock up of a PS5 controller and tried to fool a mod.

Insane to see him show his face here again right as MS is starting a new round of astroturfing for their new console.

DukeBlueBalls on Discord = DukeBlueBalls on era = Proelite on gaf.

9mvdwHO.jpg
Click to expand...



Would be kinda dumb if someone is going around saying stuff like this on publicly accessible discords.
 
adamsapple said:
Would be kinda dumb if someone is going around saying stuff like this on publicly accessible discords.
Click to expand...
it was private only. you must not have been around when this was exposed on gaf thanks to some insiders, and the discord was subsequently disbanded.
 
SlimySnake said:
it was private only. you must not have been around when this was exposed on gaf thanks to some insiders, and the discord was subsequently disbanded.
Click to expand...

No, I'm afraid all these names are unknown to me. I'm sure mods can get to the bottom of this.
 
Buggy Loop said:
It's the same fucking thing, X86 and AMD even made desktop kits



The OS is the closed garden. Time to drop the act that they're special plastic boxes. This gen more than ever before this is no longer true.
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That's a small part of it. Everything else is different. The way you access the memory, ssd, special instructions that are not on pc. It is all different. Just because it got an engine and 4 wheels does not mean it's the same car. I can't find the vid right now but the difference is very big.

Maybe I've read it here? It's paywalles now
 
This sounds damn interesting and just goes to show once again.... the majority of neogaf users dont know shit and are running on hopes and dreams from all takes. Whatever that might be.
 
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I love how everything is a war on here. A war between Nintendo...with steam....

Maybe, just maybe all this warring and losing is actually going to be good for consumers and we get more choice of what libraries we can play our games from.

The time of walled gardens is over. We have been getting fucked by increased costs in hardware....less and less games being released on platforms....more games going to multiple platforms...

Yet there is a section of the Internet that wants to be closed off.

If these companies were delivering content in a steady clip like Nintendo, and to their quality then it might make sense to have a walled garden but everything else is so muddied and more or less the same it would be nice to just play where you want...hence more and more people moving to pc.
 
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rofif said:
anyone cares? this is just a pc with extra steps.
Makes no sense. if someone wants a console, they want a console. Not a big windows steam deck without steamos
After xbox 360, microsoft forgot what a console is and who it is aimed towards. Let's hopw sony doesn't follow in their stupid steps like they always do, the idiots.
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Never doubt Mark Cerny. He still believes in the traditional dedicated console. PS6 will double/triple/quadruple down on AI upscaling and RayTracing. He already hinted at that during the PS5 Pro tech talk.
 
So it's going to be a gimped pc 😒 and seems like steam and epic games will need to be ported? Also doesn't valve hate Microsoft so why would they port steam games? This is DOA
 
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buenoblue said:
So it's going to be a gimped pc 😒 and seems like steam and epic games will need to be ported? Also doesn't valve hate Microsoft so why would they port steam games? This is DOA
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Not to mention the variable performance since studios can't optimise their games for the infinite amount hardware configurations using these Xbox chips.
 
SegaSnatcher said:
Never doubt Mark Cerny. He still believes in the traditional dedicated console. PS6 will double/triple/quadruple down on AI upscaling and RayTracing. He already hinted at that during the PS5 Pro tech talk.
Click to expand...
Both PS6 and Xbox are using the same GPU architecture so this is true for both of them.
 
Hmmm ok. I can see why this might appeal to current Xbox owners with large digital libraries. But for everyone else, just buy a pc that can be upgraded easily???
 
DenchDeckard said:
No, its Microsoft working closer than they ever have with AMD to create custom silicon for gamers and hardware manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Are we sure they will let you put real Windows on this like a Steam Deck? Yeah this is "working a lot closer" to make silicon, because they have to just to make a legal loophole for running the Xbox library and PC on the same system...just put an Xbox in it (turns out, everything isn't an xbox. who knew)

Edit: This is also exactly why that silly ROG Ally isn't an Xbox. I don't know how the warriors will reconcile the talking points. It's like the Ally was sent out as a stepping stone, but is being called the new better way of Xbox when it doesn't even have the Xbox library which is dumb.
 
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KeplerL2 said:
Both PS6 and Xbox are using the same GPU architecture so this is true for both of them
Click to expand...
Given they use the same architecture (and therefore have the same earliest date constraint), how far apart do you believe the respective launches will be? Also how do you think the overall project timelines compare in terms of start date to release.
 
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rofif said:
That's a small part of it. Everything else is different. The way you access the memory, ssd, special instructions that are not on pc. It is all different. Just because it got an engine and 4 wheels does not mean it's the same car. I can't find the vid right now but the difference is very big.

Maybe I've read it here? It's paywalles now
Click to expand...

We've had enough benchmarks across a wide variety of games that clearly show the secret sauce basically boils down to API differences. If you optimize your game for both PC and console you'd see similar hardware perform close to each other. Hence a 6700 performing about the same as a PS5 in the vast majority of games.
 
I'm getting more of a 3DO vibe with this new hardware with OEM fragmentation being an issue, especially with OEMs adding their own software since they tend to be bloatware, unless Microsoft is strict on what resources can be allocated to said apps in the background. Still, for the handheld market Microsoft will need to incentivise developers to port their games to Windows ARM, the power savings compared to x86 will be a huge benefit over the Asus/Steam deck portables.
 
Duchess said:
This might not end well.
Click to expand...
Why not?

It's like when you buy a Samsung or Lenovo tablet they have their own flavor but in the end they are Android tablets.

This would be the reason why these OEMs would want to sell a X-device
 
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Proelite said:
Xbox "consoles" will be Xbox designed APUs for both handhelds and consoles that can run Xbox BC due to silicon support. The OS itself, which is already mostly Windows, can run Windows games with the right packages / extensions loaded, or runs Xbox title VM in an enlightened hypervisor. I'm not sure which approach it is yet, but the main point is that Xbox One, and series games need to run natively without a translation/emulation layer for legal reasons.

These APUs, along from be used in 1st party HW, will be sold to OEMs, without a profit, for them to use in place of the discontinued AMD gaming APU roadmap. No profit for Xbox is important to avoid potential vertical anti-trust issues.

OEMs will add their own custom software, and also increase clocks, unlock disabled compute units, use more / faster memory, more and faster SSD, better cooling, and in the case of mobile devices, bigger battery, better displays (OLED). This so they can sell at a higher premium.

It
Click to expand...

Proelite said:
Xbox "consoles" will be Xbox designed APUs for both handhelds and consoles that can run Xbox BC due to silicon support. The OS itself, which is already mostly Windows, can run Windows games with the right packages / extensions loaded, or runs Xbox title VM in an enlightened hypervisor. I'm not sure which approach it is yet, but the main point is that Xbox One, and series games need to run natively without a translation/emulation layer for legal reasons.

These APUs, along from be used in 1st party HW, will be sold to OEMs, without a profit, for them to use in place of the discontinued AMD gaming APU roadmap. No profit for Xbox is important to avoid potential vertical anti-trust issues.

OEMs will add their own custom software, and also increase clocks, unlock disabled compute units, use more / faster memory, more and faster SSD, better cooling, and in the case of mobile devices, bigger battery, better displays (OLED). This so they can sell at a higher premium.

It was interesting to read some of the OEM takes and abandoning HW takes.

Click to expand...

OsirisBlack is that you?
 
onQ123 said:
Why not?

It's like when you buy a Samsung or Lenovo tablet they have their own flavor but in the end they are Android tablets.

This would be the reason why these OEMs would want to sell a X-device
Click to expand...
The value for buying a console is gone. The closed system was what allowed the hardware to be sold at no profit. Removing the closed system and you lose the cheap hardware.
 
Do people really care that much for old games? So much we need a new hardware for it? Like PS2 had PS1 chip nonsense? The percentage of people playing Xbox, x360 or even X1 games must be very low.
 
rofif said:
That's a small part of it. Everything else is different. The way you access the memory, ssd, special instructions that are not on pc. It is all different. Just because it got an engine and 4 wheels does not mean it's the same car. I can't find the vid right now but the difference is very big.

Maybe I've read it here? It's paywalles now
Click to expand...


Zathalus said:
We've had enough benchmarks across a wide variety of games that clearly show the secret sauce basically boils down to API differences. If you optimize your game for both PC and console you'd see similar hardware perform close to each other. Hence a 6700 performing about the same as a PS5 in the vast majority of games.
Click to expand...

Consoles are PCs, but with a locked-down system, custom built parts, and tuned to do one thing. That's it.
 
Geruda065 said:
Do people really care that much for old games? So much we need a new hardware for it? Like PS2 had PS1 chip nonsense? The percentage of people playing Xbox, x360 or even X1 games must be very low.
Click to expand...

It's a big checkbox and one that will only keep growing.

Being able to play your PS4/PS5 digital games on PS6 will be a huge selling point, but obviously it's not the be all and end all.
 
Selling apus to third parties to make third party consoles because that worked out so well for steam box lol, if PlayStation wasn't dominating enough, next gen is going to be a bloodbath.
 
rofif said:
Is Xbox. If you were not a green rat, you wouldn't care.
I don't understand how they earned your trust. They only damage gaming. Look my post above
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Your post above is your one sided opinion, you're only confirming yourself as a fanboy when you write stuff like that. Xbox has done things wrong but they've done plenty good for the industry as well.
 
BlackTron said:
Are we sure they will let you put real Windows on this like a Steam Deck? Yeah this is "working a lot closer" to make silicon, because they have to just to make a legal loophole for running the Xbox library and PC on the same system...just put an Xbox in it (turns out, everything isn't an xbox. who knew)

Edit: This is also exactly why that silly ROG Ally isn't an Xbox. I don't know how the warriors will reconcile the talking points. It's like the Ally was sent out as a stepping stone, but is being called the new better way of Xbox when it doesn't even have the Xbox library which is dumb.
Click to expand...

I think it's great that Microsoft are investing and working with AMD to create this "Legal loop hole" you speak of. It means consumers win.

I don't know why anyone would have an issue with a company investing to create a better eco system. It doesnt make sense to me.
 
onnextflix5 said:
Selling apus to third parties to make third party consoles because that worked out so well for steam box lol, if PlayStation wasn't dominating enough, next gen is going to be a bloodbath.
Click to expand...

These things are gonna be so expensive (think PC and 3DO prices)

I think they're going to lose a lot of their remaining customer base next gen in this attempt to convert them all to Xbox PC
 
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Negotiator101 said:
Your post above is your one sided opinion, you're only confirming yourself as a fanboy when you write stuff like that. Xbox has done things wrong but they've done plenty good for the industry as well.
Click to expand...

Every gaming company has done anti consumer things and pushed their agenda. At the end of the day, products are products and teams and staff change. Even studios change staff so regularly that the team that made the sequel to your favourite game is probably drastically different.

If a company makes a good product, thats all that should matter.
 
So if what is written in the OP is true, then MS always has ideas that are incredibly difficult to communicate to the average consumer, because for them XBox will simply be a PC with branding, no matter what MS tries to communicate^^
 
I forgot how many electronic engineers and shareholders of MS and Sony we have on Neogaf lmao.

I would really like to know what actual game devs will say once they actually have to start developing games for the next gen.
 
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