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[Haunted]

*catches up on the last two pages*

Where's the death spiral pic when you need it.

 

[Threi]

There's no I in Team. Get back in there.

I would rather defend poutine than GTA:CW.




this thread is kind of due for a poutine discussion btw




why do i keep posting in the gaming side talking about food

 

[GuardianE]

.

They can't explicitly depict the violent acts on television, but there's definitely a way of expressing the intent and mood of the game through a television commercial. Marketing can do wonderful things.

You should be careful with your previous post about Stupid/Intelligent people. You're letting your blind Nintendo love shine a little too brightly.

 

[pakkit]

Dammit, Threi, now I'm hungry.

*catches up on the last two pages*

Where's the death spiral pic when you need it.

Just put "Hero of Legend" where "Damn..." is now.

 

[lowrider007]

The gamer audience between platforms is largely shared. I'd say pitting MadWorld against Resident Evil 5 was a mistake.

All I'd say is that the low sales of GTA and Madworld just proves that the Wii userbase have completely different needs compared two the 360/PS3 userbase, people have always said that the Wii is targeting a completely different audience and these sales figures pretty much confirm that.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

It was only out for TWO DAYS in february :|

But March is a 5 week tracking month, compared to November which is 4 weeks.

And of course CoD:W@W didn't have a full 4 weeks worth of sales, that NPD figure represents 18 days of sales compared to KZ2's 37 days worth.

 

[Barrett2]

I don't have a clue how you get these numbers, but if you say so.

Regardless, the game sold very poorly, whatever the reasons may be. I hope it has some legs and manages to make a little profit, for the benefit of Platinum Games for delivering such a fine game, and for Sega for taking a risk on the Wii.

I made up the number, but I think its probably representative of the truth. I think GAF has a tendency to overestimate the % of consumers that have multiple consoles and actively buy games for them monthly. Its a pretty small % of the total gaming public.

 

[Vinci]

why do i keep posting in the gaming side talking about food

Do you find yourself posting about games in OT?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I give up even guessing what's going to sell anymore. This generation is so ass-backwards and ridiculously skewed, it's actually getting sad.

Man no kidding I don't get it. As a developer the 360 would definitely be my first choice. Of the three it seems the most reliable. Ever since the system released there is this collective hive mind that move on from game to game in unison and I don't know if its because of live but there seems to be far more product awareness among 360 owners.

*catches up on the last two pages*

Where's the death spiral pic when you need it.

Haunted I have always wanted to know this. How is it that your avatar randomly seems to change all the time? Are you manually changing the file or do you have a script somehow randomly picking it out of a directory?

Its sad but I must know!

 

[Zachack]

Yes because Sega can show all of the graphic violence - what the game is all about - on a TV commercial.

God you people are so fucking stupid.

So you're saying you want a game that's apparently only about graphic violence to sell well? What are you, a monster?

 

[Barrett2]

Do you find yourself posting about games in OT?

Lets reach a happy compromise and start talking about how Burgertime needs to be a DSiWare game. Now thats a discussion we can all sink our teeth into!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Doesn't sound like an either/or proposition to me. Not from a finance perspective and certainly not from a development team(s) perspective.

Sega has stated they would like to see Madworld become a franchise. There's a way they have a chance to do that. If you think they shouldn't want to see it become a franchise, tell them, not me.

I think you are selling the game way short when you assume it couldn't sell better on other platforms. This political correctness about not "bashing" the Wii has gotten way out of hand. The fact is the consumer demographics are not identical across all the systems. That's not a criticism.

It wasn't about bashing the Wii or not, but nice jab at me in the meantime.

The game might sell better, but well enough to justify the porting costs is a rather large question. If the game cost nothing to put on the 360 and PS3, even assuming that no one's going to bitch and moan about how "We're just getting a Wii game with nothing extra!" so extra things will certainly have to be added, then I say go for it. That is free money.

But I doubt the nature of the game allows the kind of money you're talking about. Especially when those funds could and should probably be going to ensuring Bayonetta is a success while using the surefire hits to subsidize games like MadWorld and Bayonetta.

 

[pakkit]

All I'd say is that the low sales of GTA and Madworld just proves that the Wii userbase have completely different needs compared two the 360/PS3 userbase, people have always said that the Wii is targeting a completely different audience and these sales figures pretty much confirm that.

GTA: CW is definitely concerning. But MadWorld shares a lot more in common with your No More Heroes than your Gears of War. If The Conduit bombs in sales, I'll apologize profusely and confess that my suspicions were off-base.

 

[Dascu]

If Sega thinks they can get more sales by porting MadWorld to the 360/PS3, by all means, do it. I just hope that they don't add in a bunch of content, since that would slightly be "betraying" those who got it on the Wii.

Haunted I have always wanted to know this. How is it that your avatar randomly seems to change all the time? Are you manually changing the file or do you have a script somehow randomly picking it out of a directory?

Its sad but I must know!

His avatar is haunted.

 

[Erebus]

Can we blame the oversaturation of the market with FPS games for the lukewarm sales of KZ2?

I think many people are still busy with CoD4, not to mention WaW and R2, so why would they be bothered to buy another FPS game in such a short time? And most importantly the Playstation audience was never really into FPS games, I believe Sony shouldn't have invested all that money, effort and time in Killzone.

 

[Haunted]

Just put "Hero of Legend" where "Damn..." is now.

:lol thanks

But yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that Madworld number.

I should've known that a violent/gory/bloody Platinum Games game would've had a hard time on the Wii, but I dared to hope against hope. Here's hoping they at least break even in the end. Would hate for them (or anyone) to lose money on a game of that quality.

 

[Zachack]

I would rather defend poutine than GTA:CW.

Yeah but what about Madworld? Your (and Vinci's apparently) buddy and N-Mate Scrubking decided to include that in his rant. That means that not only do you have to defend poutine, you also have to defend a completely other type of food that shares maybe one or two components with poutine but still is very different, like a cheese beverage or a potato dessert.

Man no kidding I don't get it. As a developer if I was going to develop on any console I have to say the 360 would be my first choice. Of the three it seems the most reliable. Ever since the system released there is this collective hive mind that move on from game to game in unison and I don't know if its because of live but there seems to be far more product awareness among 360 owners.

Maybe that's why I didn't buy a baseball game. It's not because I don't like baseball, it's because the (apparently superior) PS3 baseball game caused interference in the MicroHive. I'm going to go dance around for a while and see if I can't correct the imbalance.

 

[Vinci]

Man no kidding I don't get it. As a developer if I was going to develop on any console I have to say the 360 would be my first choice. Of the three it seems the most reliable. Ever since the system released there is this collective hive mind that move on from game to game in unison and I don't know if its because of live but there seems to be far more product awareness among 360 owners.

I'd go with 360 too, honestly, for most things. Might put some stuff on the Wii if it truly works around the notion of motion controls or the IR pointer, but I think any IR pointer heavy games for the Wii should be scaled to where you can sell it on the PC as well. Clean graphics, simple interface, possibly some online functionality.

Sell it budget on both, call it a day.

 

[gutter_trash]

I can't find anything on Street Fighter IV,
enquiring minds need to know plz

 

[Kunan]

But March is a 5 week tracking month, compared to November which is 4 weeks.

And of course CoD:W@W didn't have a full 4 weeks worth of sales, that NPD figure represents 18 days of sales compared to KZ2's 37 days worth.

Alright well then his argument stacks up since KZ2 still was out twice as long.

 

[GuardianE]

I'm curious about NA sales of all incarnations for Resident Evil 4. I think I remember reading that worldwide sales were 5 million or so across all platforms?

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

I can't find anything on Street Fighter IV,
enquiring minds need to know plz

Hopefully we'll get a Top 20 either over the weekend, or when jvm gets the data for his gamasutra article.

I hope its still up in the top 20. The way I see it, this generation of kids should spend their gaming time the same way I did..... spamming dragon punches in an attempt to win!

 

[Vinci]

Can we blame the oversaturation of the market with FPS games for the lukewarm sales of KZ2?

Dear lord, I hope so. I want that genre to collapse under its own weight. I'm sick of it. I'm not saying it should die out, just fall from its current pedestal.

 

[poppabk]

Do you really want a recap of all the incredibly stupidity? Really? Okay.

Idiots
...

Intelligent people
...

Rational people:
- Each sold poorly in their first month, but each is a single data point in a very small list that provides no discernible trend.
ie the success of Halo Wars does not mean that RTS's will always sell like gangbusters on 360, nor does it mean that Halo Kart would be an amazing success.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

Rational people:
- Each sold poorly in their first month, but each is a single data point in a very small list that provides no discernible trend.
ie the success of Halo Wars does not mean that RTS's will always sell like gangbusters on 360, nor does it mean that Halo Kart would be an amazing success.

Cause that's already a given.

 

[Somnid]

Nintendo has different demographics plain and simple. If you are doing a traditional game it will be a lot harder sell on a Nintendo platform because it has many non-traditional gamers. The concept of a "good game" and a "bad game" can't be compared properly because most of GAF and the gaming community still has a disconnect with what everyone else might want.

 

[SilverLunar]

Has the top 20 and top 10 of each platform been released yet? no?

 

[Rolf NB]

Please continue; your avatar in contrast with a banned tag could provide a nice screen cap I could use in the Conduit thread for comedic affect.

I was hopeful GAF had finally shaken off that whole affect vs effect confuzzledness bonanza. We are doomed.

 

[bryehn]

Lets reach a happy compromise and start talking about how Burgertime needs to be a DSiWare game. Now thats a discussion we can all sink our teeth into!

Best post in the whole thread. Though I'd argure it'd be a better fit on Virtual Console Arcade. Who owns the Data East stuff anyways?

 

[Barrett2]

I was hopeful GAF had finally shaken off that whole affect vs effect confuzzledness bonanza. We are doomed.

:lol In my defense, I am posting while trying to pay attention in class. Anybody could have made that mistaqe.

 

[markatisu]

Has the top 20 and top 10 of each platform been released yet? no?

Not yet

 

[J-Rock]

I'm not at all surprised by the MadWorld numbers. Many people that I know were going to buy it day one(including myself) but then suddenly said they'll just rent it(or wait for a price drop).

Why? They heard the game is around 5hrs long. Even I couldn't convince myself to pay $50 for a 5hr experience with very little replay value. I just don't have that much extra money right now.

 

[Opiate]

Man no kidding I don't get it. As a developer the 360 would definitely be my first choice. Of the three it seems the most reliable. Ever since the system released there is this collective hive mind that move on from game to game in unison and I don't know if its because of live but there seems to be far more product awareness among 360 owners.

Absolutely, this comes from homogenized demographics. This allows for similar tastes to be easily exploited: in the case of the Xbox 360, that demographic is Males Age 15-35, a demographic which, generally speaking, like things that look cool, and enjoy blowing things up. In film, these are action movies like Iron Man or Transformers: big special effects, lots of action.

This would mean that action packed games with great graphics should sell at extremely high attach rates for this console, and that is exactly what we're seeing.

In contrast, a system with heterogenuous ownership is more difficult for many of these corporations to exploit, as products that appeal to men, women and children simultaneously seem to be more difficult to create.

 

[Vinci]

What's odd about this generation: My console of choice is winning, by a wide margin, and yet I'm so disinterested in the direction the console market is heading I'm thinking I may just stick with handhelds and PCs from now on.

 

[lowrider007]

A more direct comparison with a different game is possible:

Army of Two (360) - Mar 08 - 606k (33 days of sales)
Killzone 2 (PS3) - Feb / Mar 09 - 619k (37 days of sales)

This comparison is a joke when you consider the difference in install bases, I think people forget that there is only 8 million PS3's in NA, 619k is hardly 'luke warm' sales when you put things into perspective, the game will easily reach 3 million WW and I don't think anyone can call that a failure, but then this is the gaf.......

 

[Opiate]

This comparison is a joke when you consider the difference in install bases, I think people forget that there is only 8 million PS3's in NA, 619k is hardly 'luke warm' sales when you put things into perspective, the game will easily reach 3 million WW and I don't think anyone can call that a failure, but then this is the gaf.......

No, the install bases are fairly similar. The install base of the PS3 in America now is similar to the 360's install base at the release of Army of Two a year ago.

And even if that hadn't been considered, "install base" is a flimsy argument at best. In essence, you could excuse every PS3 game's sales in this fashion. Publishers don't care about "relative to install base" figures, they care about sales. The bottom line is the bottom line.

I could sell 4 copies of a 50 Million dollar epic game to an install base of 5 users. I have an 80% attach rate! Considering the user base, that's fantastic, right? No. The bottom line is I lost millions. The end.

 

[liuelson]

Absolutely, this comes from homogenized demographics. This allows for similar tastes to be easily exploited: in the case of the Xbox 360, that demographic is Males Age 15-35...

In contrast, a system with heterogenuous ownership is more difficult for many of these corporations to exploit, as products that appeal to men, women and children simultaneously seem to be more difficult to create.

Nintendo has different demographics plain and simple. If you are doing a traditional game it will be a lot harder sell on a Nintendo platform because it has many non-traditional gamers. The concept of a "good game" and a "bad game" can't be compared properly because most of GAF and the gaming community still has a disconnect with what everyone else might want.

I keep hearing these claims about demographic differences between each of the various consoles, and between the overall market v. GAF itself. At least for the GAF differences, shouldn't there be a way to measure the difference between GAF preferences v. market preferences? Perhaps taking a point in time where we have good data about a variety of game LTD (end of year, end of a fiscal quarter), and then surveying GAF to see what games GAF members own? Comparing the differences in the distributions ought to tell us something about the difference between the general market v. GAF.

 

[borghe]

Whenever a game with normal "hardcore" sensibilities succeeds on the Wii, there's always this litany of excuses as to why it's the exception. Oh it was published by Nintendo/EA/bigpublisher....it was an established IP....blah blah blah.....

fixed for bitter tears. 90% of the posts in these threads are just fucking excuses and reasons created to support someone's opinion, no matter how right, wrong, informaed or misinformed it might be. The fact is that hardcore games succeed and fail on the wii the same as they succeed and fail on all systems, and the same way casual games succeed and fail on both the wii and other systems. Games fail, yet it seems the wii is always the one where it's the system's fault or perception as to why a particular game fails. hmm... how does that work?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Absolutely, this comes from homogenized demographics. This allows for similar tastes to be easily exploited: in the case of the Xbox 360, that demographic is Males Age 15-35, a demographic which, generally speaking, like things that look cool, and enjoy blowing things up. In film, these are action movies like Iron Man or Transformers: big special effects, lots of action.

This would mean that action packed games with great graphics should sell at extremely high attach rates for this console, and that is exactly what we're seeing.

In contrast, a system with heterogenuous ownership is more difficult for many of these corporations to exploit, as products that appeal to men, women and children simultaneously seem to be more difficult to create.

Good point that's very true. On the plus side it does mean that when I play KZ2 as opposed to Gears I get called fag a lot less.

What's odd about this generation: My console of choice is winning, by a wide margin, and yet I'm so disinterested in the direction the console market is heading I'm thinking I may just stick with handhelds and PCs from now on.

I think I am joining you bro my nephew has agreed to sell me his old DS for pennies now that he has upgraded.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Man no kidding I don't get it. As a developer the 360 would definitely be my first choice. Of the three it seems the most reliable. Ever since the system released there is this collective hive mind that move on from game to game in unison and I don't know if its because of live but there seems to be far more product awareness among 360 owners.

Look at how Microsoft has done since the launch of the 360 and even more so with NXE, there is tons of stuff about games every time you go to a new part of the dashboard if you are connected to Live. They keep you informed. You don't see that with Sony until you log into the Playstation store.

 

[Alcibiades]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311897

Boom Blox Sells Just 60K


Stunning. Seems like the perfect kind of game for Wii, it has the Spielberg connection and yet it tanks.

a few months from now all this alarmist reaction to MadWorld and Chinatown Wars sales will seem silly and will most likely be forgotten...

 

[poppabk]

I'm not at all surprised by the MadWorld numbers. Many people that I know were going to buy it day one(including myself) but then suddenly said they'll just rent it(or wait for a price drop).

Why? They heard the game is around 5hrs long. Even I couldn't convince myself to pay $50 for a 5hr experience with very little replay value. I just don't have that much extra money right now.

It failed to get the critical acclaim that might have pushed it into peoples consciousness.

 

[markatisu]

a few months from now all this alarmist reaction to MadWorld and Chinatown Wars sales will seem silly and will most likely be forgotten...

By that time there will be some new game (probably Conduit) that will face the same situation and we will be doing this all over again :lol

Boom Blox (sold very well getting sequel), NMH (best selling Suda game, getting sequel), De Blob (out of nowhere, did not even chart in Wii Top 10 ever getting sequel), Shaun White (outsold HD Twins combined in 1st month), and COD WaW (pathetic sales in Nov, Top 20 finish Dec-Jan) are examples off the top of my head that GAF has lol'd and then been bitch slapped within 60 days

 

[gofreak]

Look at how Microsoft has done since the launch of the 360 and even more so with NXE, there is tons of stuff about games every time you go to a new part of the dashboard if you are connected to Live. They keep you informed. You don't see that with Sony until you log into the Playstation store.

As a gamer who's well tuned in enough as is..fuccck, don't give them any ideas!

I can see how advertising directly in the OS could help with broader awareness of games though. From a business POV it makes a lot of sense. But from my XMB aesthetics sense..vader-nooooo.jpg.

Besides, I don't think they've done too badly with getting the base behind games..globally RE5 and SFIV have overperformed on PS3 relatively. KZ2 might have benefitted from a bigger "if you're a ps3 owner you'll want this' kind of push, though.

 

[Grecco]

By that time there will be some new game (probably Conduit) that will face the same situation and we will be doing this all over again :lol

Boom Blox, NMH, De Blob, Shaun White, and COD WaW are examples off the top of my head that GAF has lol'd and then been bitch slapped within 60 days

Wii music as well

 

[Vinci]

I think I am joining you bro my nephew has agreed to sell me his old DS for pennies now that he has upgraded.

Awesome. Best system this gen. Has a lot of diversity and depth to its library.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Look at how Microsoft has done since the launch of the 360 and even more so with NXE, there is tons of stuff about games every time you go to a new part of the dashboard if you are connected to Live. They keep you informed. You don't see that with Sony until you log into the Playstation store.

PSN does have that little scroll widget on the main XMB but it's so easy to ignore.

 

[markatisu]

Wii music as well

Oh yeah I forgot the 81k the 1st month and all the bomba talk and then a 300% increase the following month. But see that does not count cause its Nintendo and the meme is to say 3rd parties never sell

 

[borghe]

Man no kidding I don't get it. As a developer the 360 would definitely be my first choice. Of the three it seems the most reliable. Ever since the system released there is this collective hive mind that move on from game to game in unison and I don't know if its because of live but there seems to be far more product awareness among 360 owners.

problem is that as just a random developer, you're going to have a bitch of a time sticking out on the 360, especially without a recognizable IP. People are wowing at Halo Wars and RE5 and WaW. But at the same time there are plenty of decent games on the 360 with new or lesser IPs that have tanked spectacularly or at the very least probably didn't cover production costs.

It's an interesting market... Do you go for 360 (w/ PS3) and hope that your smaller game can withstand the crushing blow of the 3rd part big guns on that system, or do you go to Wii where it's cheaper to develop but you have to deal with Nintendo. If you are going to sell 70K no matter what (like say possibly Madworld for existence) it almost makes more sense to do it on the console where it might only cost $1M to develop vs. one where it might go up to $2-5M to develop.

That's the funny part about Madworld. It relatively tanked on the Wii at 70K and people blame it because of the Wii's brand perception. Yet had it sold the same 70K on the 360 all those same people would say is how it's a crying shame that no one bought this game.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

All I'd say is that the low sales of GTA and Madworld just proves that the Wii userbase have completely different needs compared two the 360/PS3 userbase, people have always said that the Wii is targeting a completely different audience and these sales figures pretty much confirm that.

Right, which is why I've repeatedly said that simply developing games with the values of other platforms isn't a successful strategy for Nintendo platforms. In other words, why consumers buy DS/Wii games is fundamentally asymmetrical to why other consumers by 360/PS3/PSP games. Notice, this does not mean that upmarket ("hardcore") games cannot sell on Nintendo platforms, it just means that not many upmarket games have been released with these assymetric values as their guiding development philosophy. Many third-party developers do not understand this, yet, or already do, and are just not willing to exhaust the effort and talent to modify their value structures.

With that said, I wouldn't extrapolate too much from Madworld's sales, simply because I have confidence in the business sense and innovative talent of people to seize on the disruption. It will happen, it's just a matter of when.