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[Flying_Phoenix]

Y.O.Y % differences;

PS2: -1%
DS: +8%
PSP: -30%
360: -2%
PS3: +88%
Wii: -38%

I mean not to be a pessimist here, but these differences aren't very enthusiastic. Only the DS and PS3 are up, and the PS3 just had a price drop as well as a new marketing push as well (which the effects is seeming fading away), either way that's good but it wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before. The PSP did far worse than it's previous year (where it didn't do so hot to begin with) despite SONY constantly pushing the system. The 360 has seemed to really stagnant as it's comfortably found it's target market and has firmly established itself in it. Plateauing isn't bad, but it's not good wither. The Wii has dropped dramatically despite a price drop. Yes I understand that it wasn't always going to maintain it's crazy sales, but software sales have taken a hit as well. The only current generation system on here that has had comfortable growth throughout it's life-time (did you see that part PS3 owners?) is the Nintendo DS.

Yes I know that there wasn't a gigantic push for console selling software this November, but it isn't any worse than 2008. I just hope that

 

[Kabouter]

I would absolutely LOVE a civil war CoD, actually done right, instead of the history channel knock-off. But, it was a very different era. Probably wouldn't be as much fun. Hell, a vast majority of firearms used during the war were muskets, and that would be boring as hell.

On the other hand, the vast majority of soldiers during World War II probably didn't commandeer FlaK 88's to shoot tanks either. If they were to make a US civil war one, and I'm not saying that they should, I'm pretty sure your character wouldn't be the one firing muskets .

 

[tzare]

They still don't play as much as 360 gamers. 360's attach rate is 8.8 whereas PS3's is 6.8.

is that in the US or WW?

However, the attach rate is cumulative, and PS3 is one year younger than 360.
But i am with you, 360 owner is usually more 'hardcore', so it is probably spending a bit more on game than the average PS3 user.
being in euroland, i can say that a year ago, when i turned on my consoles, i used to have more friends playing on 360 when checking friends list. But now this has changed, and on ps3, my friend list is much more active than my 360 friend list XD
But as US is xboxland, europe is sonyland. Well that is what people say

 

[LosDaddie]

From an investor perspective it makes perfect sense.

I understand that. I'm a stock holder as well. I just believe that requiring YoY growth to be deemed successful is fundamentally flawed. There becomes a point when growth is no longer possible, but that doesn't mean your product is a failure.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

They still don't play as much as 360 gamers. 360's attach rate is 8.8 whereas PS3's is 6.8.

Also, those games still sold well on 360, just (in some cases), a little less.

 

[szaromir]

is that in the US or WW?

However, the attach rate is cumulative, and PS3 is one year younger than 360.

US. But the age of the systems isn't that much of the factor anymore, tie ratios change really slowly. We probably need average console ownership length in weeks (I think that's a stat that JoshuJSlone always provides) to know for sure, but to me it seems 360 sells more software in US both overall and per console, even if the last difference is small.

 

[LosDaddie]

am i the only one who feels that MS didnt deserve to take november?

Why yes, Junior. You are clearly the only GAFer to feel that way. :lol

 

[140.85]

Revenge of the braw gamers! XD

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

They still don't play as much as 360 gamers. 360's attach rate is 8.8 whereas PS3's is 6.8.

It's as if they've had the system longer, and bought more games in that extra time.

 

[imtehman]

[]bam i the only one who feels that MS didnt deserve to take november?[/b] sony finally turned it up and did everything right from the price to the marketing to actually having some decent games out there, shit an almost perfect game and MS still wins. Now if MS actually tried this holiday then ok but dude, thye price sucks, the value compared to the ps3 sucks, besides the COD tie ins their marketing has been pathetic this fall. Yeah sony has seen the bigger benefit seeing their increase in YoY sales but i cant help but feel that they deserved to be on top. as well as they did they'll still be seen as 3rd place. I for one congratulate them on being the only ones who truly did it right this fall. Here;s hoping they take december.

On the other hand many MS did do it right by holding their price steady and saving their war chest for a HUGE natal push next year. If so they better release a slim with some wifi action or something. atleast make the box a better value.

you're definitely not the only one.

i think the majority of people who got banned because of htis thread agrees with you

 

[Stumpokapow]

So what are people expecting from MW2? Will it be the most front-loaded game of all time, or has the fanbase for the series expanded considerably?

The fanbase has expanded considerably. CoD4 was a revolution--and I don't mean this as a fan because I've literally never played the game--CoD4 was the single most important console online multiplayer title since Halo 2 kick-started console online FPS. It has _never_ gone down in price. It has _never_ dropped off the top most played games charts. People who bought CoD4 on launch day are still playing it today.

Part of this is because of the reward system for online multiplayer; you can level up and unlock content. When you reach the top level, you can reset your level to level 1 and earn a "Prestige". You can repeat this many times. Like an MMO, 99.999999% of people will never be able to invest the time to get to the end, but there's always more objectives to complete.

WaW, even though it was probably less revolutionary and isn't as good of a game (frankly, Treyarch isn't the developer that IW is, but that's okay), had a lot of benefits in terms of gameplay experimentation and in terms of mindshare handed to it from MW1. One thing it did right that MW1 did not is post-launch support. WaW had several million+ selling map packs.

MW2 will certainly have multiple map packs, the online gameplay nails what made the first one popular. I do believe that MW2 will be more front-loaded than MW1 but I think that's sort of a physical limitation at this point--but it's not going to be front loaded in any sense and price drops and used sales are going to be severely stunted because so many players just keep playing.

Provided the limited extrapolated figures I provided are correct (which, realistically they are--I had wide enough range bands there that they are), there is a 0% chance MW2 will fail to become the best-selling title on both HD systems and it's pretty likely it'll become the best-selling on both within the next few months.

 

[szaromir]

It's as if they've had the system longer, and bought more games in that extra time.

Did you read my last post? I don't think so.

 

[gerg]

The fanbase has expanded considerably.

From MW to MW2? I'm not sure if you meant that the game expanded the audience for FPSs in general; rather, I was wondering if you think that MW2 has expanded upon the audience for the original MW in particular.

MW2 will certainly have multiple map packs, the online gameplay nails what made the first one popular. I do believe that MW2 will be more front-loaded than MW1 but I think that's sort of a physical limitation at this point--but it's not going to be front loaded in any sense and price drops and used sales are going to be severely stunted because so many players just keep playing.

Provided the limited extrapolated figures I provided are correct (which, realistically they are--I had wide enough range bands there that they are), there is a 0% chance MW2 will fail to become the best-selling title on both HD systems and it's pretty likely it'll become the best-selling on both within the next few months.

So what are we expecting in terms of figures? MW apparently sold (or shipped) 13 million copies when all was said and done. Should we be expecting upwards of 17 million from MW2?

 

[EXGN]

They still don't play as much as 360 gamers. 360's attach rate is 8.8 whereas PS3's is 6.8.

According to Sony, the PS3 attach rate is 7.9.

 

[Keikoku]

Why are you laughing?

When REACH drops, the X360's installed base might be double what it was when Halo3 launched.

It's definitely a reachable goal.

Install base doesn't matter that much in this kind of case. Most of Halo fans already own a 360 since they bought it for Halo 3 two years ago. Halo Reach will still do better than 90% of 2010 games but I don't think that it will top Halo 3 sales. We still need to see how it'll be marketed though.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Y.O.Y % differences;

PS2: -1%
DS: +8%
PSP: -30%
360: -2%
PS3: +88%
Wii: -38%

I mean not to be a pessimist here, but these differences aren't very enthusiastic. Only the DS and PS3 are up, and the PS3 just had a price drop as well as a new marketing push as well (which the effects is seeming fading away), either way that's good but it wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before. The PSP did far worse than it's previous year (where it didn't do so hot to begin with) despite SONY constantly pushing the system. The 360 has seemed to really stagnant as it's comfortably found it's target market and has firmly established itself in it. Plateauing isn't bad, but it's not good wither. The Wii has dropped dramatically despite a price drop. Yes I understand that it wasn't always going to maintain it's crazy sales, but software sales have taken a hit as well. The only current generation system on here that has had comfortable growth throughout it's life-time (did you see that part PS3 owners?) is the Nintendo DS.

Yes I know that there wasn't a gigantic push for console selling software this November, but it isn't any worse than 2008. I just hope that

PS3 effects seem to be fading away? Largest non-December month for it ever is fading away? My lord...

 

[tzare]

US. But the age of the systems isn't that much of the factor anymore, tie ratios change really slowly. We probably need average console ownership length in weeks (I think that's a stat that JoshuJSlone always provides) to know for sure, but to me it seems 360 sells more software in US both overall and per console, even if the last difference is small.

yeah i agree 360 sells more software, but again, i think people overreact. It sells more, but not THAT more considering installbase. In fact some genres preform much better on PS3 as far as i know, if we consider ww userbase.
It is a pitty that Euro data is not as accurate as NPD or MediaCreate so we could compare.
And the age is a factor , it may be not determinant, but that year that 360 was there and PS3 wasn't obiously had an impact.
Another point is that it is the first time i gues that the last console in sales performs at a similar level that the leaders. Usually leaders, as generation goes further, have a wider gap. This is not happening this gen.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The fanbase has expanded considerably. CoD4 was a revolution--and I don't mean this as a fan because I've literally never played the game--CoD4 was the single most important console online multiplayer title since Halo 2 kick-started console online FPS. It has _never_ gone down in price. It has _never_ dropped off the top most played games charts. People who bought CoD4 on launch day are still playing it today.

Part of this is because of the reward system for online multiplayer; you can level up and unlock content. When you reach the top level, you can reset your level to level 1 and earn a "Prestige". You can repeat this many times. Like an MMO, 99.999999% of people will never be able to invest the time to get to the end, but there's always more objectives to complete.

WaW, even though it was probably less revolutionary and isn't as good of a game (frankly, Treyarch isn't the developer that IW is, but that's okay), had a lot of benefits in terms of gameplay experimentation and in terms of mindshare handed to it from MW1. One thing it did right that MW1 did not is post-launch support. WaW had several million+ selling map packs.

MW2 will certainly have multiple map packs, the online gameplay nails what made the first one popular. I do believe that MW2 will be more front-loaded than MW1 but I think that's sort of a physical limitation at this point--but it's not going to be front loaded in any sense and price drops and used sales are going to be severely stunted because so many players just keep playing.

Provided the limited extrapolated figures I provided are correct (which, realistically they are--I had wide enough range bands there that they are), there is a 0% chance MW2 will fail to become the best-selling title on both HD systems and it's pretty likely it'll become the best-selling on both within the next few months.

It's $30 on Amazonk down from a retail of $50.

 

[szaromir]

According to Sony, the PS3 attach rate is 7.9.

It's a ratio of shipped games/shipped consoles worldwide. Ie. completely irrelevant in NPD thread.

 

[poppabk]

It's $30 on Amazonk down from a retail of $50.

It was temporarily reduced in its launch window at some stores.
I saw the PC version on clearance at Best Buy about 6 months after launch, ironically they have now restocked this same version at that store and are selling it for $40.

 

[tino]

I don't get people who complain about Uncharted's number.

Assassin's Creed has much better climbing animation than Uncharted. This is kind of "next gen" stuff that sell games to casual gamers. Plus, Da Vinci's fucking Code is in, Romancing the Stone is fucking out (I bet most of you haven't watched this movie.)

Uncharted should be very thankful for its numbers. It probably will become the biggest in-house Sony franchise without any PS2 heritage.

 

[LosDaddie]

Install base doesn't matter that much in this kind of case. Most of Halo fans already own a 360 since they bought it for Halo 3 two years ago. Halo Reach will still do better than 90% of 2010 games but I don't think that it will top Halo 3 sales. We still need to see how it'll be marketed though.

Install base definitely matters. It means a (far) larger audience to pool from.

With the right marketing; REach can appeal to the hardcore Halo fans (who already own the console) to the "casual" gamers (who bought the console after 2007) alike.

Thinking that REACH will only appeal to the hardcore Halo fans who bought the X360 for Halo3 is silly, IMO.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Anything that isn't in the top ten is seen as a failure. Been that way for a while. Silly, especially when UC2 was #1 last month and is on track to significantly outsell UC1.

Well, it didn't exactly do gang busters last month. Army of Two that came out in March on 360 alone sold 100k more than UC2 did on the same userbase.

It will do decently of course, maybe crack a million before the end of the year. I think people were expecting the sales to match the quality and that's where the small let down has come from but traditionally, PS3 first party titles have never really been huge sellers.

I don't get people who complain about Uncharted's number.

Assassin's Creed has much better climbing animation than Uncharted. This is kind of "next gen" stuff that sell games to casual gamers. Plus, Da Vinci's fucking Code is in, Romancing the Stone is fucking out (I bet most of you haven't watched this movie.)

Uncharted should be very thankful for its numbers. It probably will become the biggest in-house Sony franchise without any PS2 heritage.

And yes... it had to compete with Assassin's Creed II which look like similar games to the layman.

 

[LosDaddie]

So what are we expecting in terms of figures? MW apparently sold (or shipped) 13 million copies when all was said and done. Should we be expecting upwards of 17 million from MW2?

I think 17M is within reach. The install base for each console has grown considerably.

 

[Nutter]

Install base doesn't matter that much in this kind of case. Most of Halo fans already own a 360 since they bought it for Halo 3 two years ago. Halo Reach will still do better than 90% of 2010 games but I don't think that it will top Halo 3 sales. We still need to see how it'll be marketed though.

Just like MW2 didnt top MW1 right? oh wait... :lol

What a stupid logic.. 1 game wont sell more the second time around because it has its fanbase already on the system, versus another game who has done the same? The user base is 3 times what it was when Halo 3 launched. If even a fraction of the new owners give Reach a try.. that will be millions of people additional to the exisiting fanbase. Same thing happened to MW2. People are willing to try new products when marketed right, and considering that Reach is the Biggest thing from MS next year I fully expect marketing for the title to be huge.

 

[DaveTheSnake]

The fanbase has expanded considerably.

Does anyone think that these numbers will be similar for the next COD from Treyarch? Or will they drop somewhat?

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's $30 on Amazonk down from a retail of $50.

By that I did not mean "the game has maintained full MSRP at all times at all retailers", I mean that it has, in general, maintained something within a stone's throw of MSRP at most retailers for the entire last two years. It behaves like a Nintendo first-party success in that sense.

Does anyone think that these numbers will be similar for the next COD from Treyarch? Or will they drop somewhat?

I'd say next Treyarch game will be as big or bigger than WaW but smaller than MW2 if I had to guess (I feel like CoD3 -> MW1 -> WaW is a good map for WaW -> MW2 -> Next Treyarch)

 

[Rocksteady33]

Anyone got recap of additional info from outside of top 10? I stayed on top of the first 700 posts, but lost it from there...

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Wow! But SonyGAF said over and over recently the 360 was dying and the PS3 had freight train momentum and it was only a matter of time before the streams crossed.

It is odd, though. MS is practically taking the year off and are lining up all their ducks for next year (tons of exclusives + Natal) while Sony threw everything but the kitchen sink out there this year and the 360 still comes out on top. I wouldn't have guessed it myself.

This month, more than any month, makes me wonder if consumer mindshare about brands as a whole has changed. You can throw into one of many that thought Microsoft was going to lose to Sony this Christmas season. The PS3 ads are on point, it's always had great games but Sony has done a much better job of communicating that to the public than years past. I think Microsoft may have officially dethroned Sony in the eyes of the majority. We shall see if this is for certain next month.

 

[WasteLand Soldier]

you guys still argue about tie ratios? really? when the original xbox had what 1/4th the userbase of the ps2 and software still kept pace.

 

[RETROEX]

Some more interesting data

Quote:

Since its release in August, Batman: Arkham Asylum is now leading on the PlayStation 3 console by over 10,000 units when compared to Xbox 360, according to NPD.

source
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/105/1054399p1.html

 

[Metalmurphy]

Some more interesting data

Quote:

Since its release in August, Batman: Arkham Asylum is now leading on the PlayStation 3 console by over 10,000 units when compared to Xbox 360, according to NPD.

source
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/105/1054399p1.html

"I've set a trap, and you sprang it gloriously!"

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

This month, more than any month, makes me wonder if consumer mindshare about brands as a whole has changed. You can throw into one of many that thought Microsoft was going to lose to Sony this Christmas season. The PS3 ads are on point, it's always had great games but Sony has done a much better job of communicating that to the public than years past. I think Microsoft may have officially dethroned Sony in the eyes of the majority. We shall see if this is for certain next month.

Michael Scott asked Santa for an Xbox on The Office yesterday.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

PS3 effects seem to be fading away? Largest non-December month for it ever is fading away? My lord...

The rapid sales increase due to the slim marketing seems to be. Hence why it didn't beat the 360.

I didn't say that it was dying just that it's surge is starting to slowly fall off.

 

[Karma]

In November, PS3 was the only hardware console to see any growth when compared to last November, experiencing an 88% lift and a 122% increase from the previous month. Metacritic also unveiled this week its 2009 Game Platform Power Rankings, in which PS3 titles topped the charts on overall game quality, tallying up five of the top ten best reviewed games in 2009 and with UNCHARTED 2: Among Thieves taking best reviewed game of the year. The sheer appetite and interest in the PS3 this holiday has been overwhelming and is exceeding our expectations. So much so, some retailers are expected to experience tight supply this December. There's no question the holidays are looking very bright for PlayStation and we’re confident that the new year is on pace for the same with hugely anticipated titles hitting the platform, such as MAG, God of War III, BioShock 2, and Final Fantasy XIII.” -- Jack Tretton, CEO and President of SCEA

How are they going to reach the shipment goal? They need 6 Million shipped this quarter.

 

[Archie]

Some more interesting data

Quote:

Since its release in August, Batman: Arkham Asylum is now leading on the PlayStation 3 console by over 10,000 units when compared to Xbox 360, according to NPD.

source
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/105/1054399p1.html

I'm glad that the game is doing well on both platforms. Batman deserves to outsell MW2.

 

[theluma]

I don't get people who complain about Uncharted's number.

Assassin's Creed has much better climbing animation than Uncharted. This is kind of "next gen" stuff that sell games to casual gamers. Plus, Da Vinci's fucking Code is in, Romancing the Stone is fucking out (I bet most of you haven't watched this movie.)

Uncharted should be very thankful for its numbers. It probably will become the biggest in-house Sony franchise without any PS2 heritage.

I think that is exactly the kind of stuff that doesn't affect what casual gamers buy in the slightest.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Some more interesting data

Quote:

Since its release in August, Batman: Arkham Asylum is now leading on the PlayStation 3 console by over 10,000 units when compared to Xbox 360, according to NPD.

source
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/105/1054399p1.html

While that is interesting (and I mentioned it earlier in the thread; Silent Hill Homecoming is the only other same-day multiplatform release that I know of that was leading on the PS3), 10,000 units is basically a hair-thin margin given that we're talking about around 500k or more per console.

 

[poppabk]

you guys still argue about tie ratios? really? when the original xbox had what 1/4th the userbase of the ps2 and software still kept pace.

What?

 

[Deku]

Y.O.Y % differences;

PS2: -1%
DS: +8%
PSP: -30%
360: -2%
PS3: +88%
Wii: -38%

I mean not to be a pessimist here, but these differences aren't very enthusiastic. Only the DS and PS3 are up, and the PS3 just had a price drop as well as a new marketing push as well (which the effects is seeming fading away), either way that's good but it wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before. The PSP did far worse than it's previous year (where it didn't do so hot to begin with) despite SONY constantly pushing the system. The 360 has seemed to really stagnant as it's comfortably found it's target market and has firmly established itself in it. Plateauing isn't bad, but it's not good wither. The Wii has dropped dramatically despite a price drop. Yes I understand that it wasn't always going to maintain it's crazy sales, but software sales have taken a hit as well. The only current generation system on here that has had comfortable growth throughout it's life-time (did you see that part PS3 owners?) is the Nintendo DS.

Yes I know that there wasn't a gigantic push for console selling software this November, but it isn't any worse than 2008. I just hope that

Next-gen hardware sales have been down collectively. The big drivers of growth Wii/DS/360 have been all down this year. The only bright spot has been the PS3 and slim.

So 10 year lifecycle talk seems more and more far fetched. If trend continues, despite some of the best titles hitting the market this year, the industry will shrink again next year.

That's usually a signal for a new round of hardware launches, and by every leaked rumour we've seen, that seems to be exactly what is being planned for 2011.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Michael Scott asked Santa for an Xbox on The Office yesterday.

I was randomly watching Entourage and How I Met Your Mother and both shows showed people playing the 360. I really can't think of a TV show recently where they were playing the PS3 as a game system.

 

[szaromir]

How are they going to reach the shipment goal? They need 6 Million shipped this quarter.

MS shipped 6M in Q4 last year. That's doable for Sony.

 

[WasteLand Soldier]

What?

what what? theres always argument that ps3 cant keep up with 360 on multiplatform releases because it has a smaller userbase. thats a bullshit argument. back in the ps2/xbox days, xbox software (splinter cell and a few others) were able to keep pace or do better in some rare instances. the ps2 had what a 80 million unit base to OG xboxes 20 mil. people just arent buying games on the ps3. its not a matter of it being a smaller userbase at all.

 

[Opiate]

what what? theres always argument that ps3 cant keep up with 360 on multiplatform releases because it has a smaller userbase. thats a bullshit argument. back in the ps2/xbox days, xbox software (splinter cell and a few others) were able to keep pace or do better in some rare instances. the ps2 had what a 80 million unit base to OG xboxes 20 mil. people just arent buying games on the ps3. its not a matter of it being a smaller userbase at all.

The PS2 sold vastly more software than the Xbox. Vastly. You're probably looking at a few specific games (I don't know what) that sold as well on the Xbox as they did on the PS2, but as a general rule, the PS2 made a mockery of Xbox software sales.

The PS2 is the ultimate example of user base size dominating software sales. You picked a very poor example to prove your point.

 

[LosDaddie]

what what? theres always argument that ps3 cant keep up with 360 on multiplatform releases because it has a smaller userbase. thats a bullshit argument. back in the ps2/xbox days, xbox software (splinter cell and a few others) were able to keep pace or do better in some rare instances. the ps2 had what a 80 million unit base to OG xboxes 20 mil. people just arent buying games on the ps3. its not a matter of it being a smaller userbase at all.

:lol Did you even pay attention last gen?

 

[NintendosBooger]

The Wii is doing great. Fuck all the haters.

It's the only game machine that sells as a result of game software alone, unlike the 360 that needs numerous price cuts to stay afloat and the PS3 that would have dried up long ago without a redesign and a major price cut.

People accuse the Wii of being gimmicky, when it's those other machines that require gimmicks more-so in order to keep selling.

 

[cleveridea]

360 DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS 342,254
360 DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS COLLECTOR'S ED 19,888
PS3 DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS COLLECTOR'S ED 11,728
PS3 DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS 177,008

 

[Spiegel]

Stumpokapow wins this round

 

[andymcc]

The Wii is doing great. Fuck all the haters.

It's the only game machine that sells as a result of game software alone, unlike the 360 that needs numerous price cuts to stay afloat and the PS3 that would have dried up long ago without a redesign and a major price cut.

People accuse the Wii of being gimmicky, when it's those other machines that require gimmicks more-so in order to keep selling.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[ShogunX]

The Wii is doing great. Fuck all the haters.

It's the only game machine that sells as a result of game software alone, unlike the 360 that needs numerous price cuts to stay afloat and the PS3 that would have dried up long ago without a redesign and a major price cut.

People accuse the Wii of being gimmicky, when it's those other machines that require gimmicks more-so in order to keep selling.

Theres not a chance in hell the Wii would of sold anywhere close to what it is doing now without the motion control and things like Wii fit.

It would be the Gamecube all over again.