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[Lasha]

Is 0.1 million units sold in a market of 40.0 million units sold per year representative of anything? The number of American households in the US belonging to the 1% us like 1.5 million. At least 6% of those households must have at least one PC gamer. I think the data is too little and young to make any determinations regarding NVIDIA'S pricing strategy.

 

[THE DUCK]

It’s a Halo product, they aren’t made or intended to be 10million + sellers, they are made to be the trickle down tech powering the actuall mass market products.

To put in perspective, earlier this year Nvidia revealed they had sold 20 million 3x00 gpu’s, the vast majority being 3060’s likely.

That was pretty much my point, people are declaring some sort of generational victory for nvidia and justification of the high price, when in fact hardly any were built and it really means nothing in terms of going foreward.

 

[Haint]

Is 0.1 million units sold in a market of 40.0 million units sold per year representative of anything? The number of American households in the US belonging to the 1% us like 1.5 million. At least 6% of those households must have at least one PC gamer. I think the data is too little and young to make any determinations regarding NVIDIA'S pricing strategy.

Very much so, it's utterly and completely unprecedented. The 10 and 20 series Titan class cards (same price as the 4090) never even charted in Steam Survey's, meaning their lifetime sales were only in the thousands or perhaps very low 10,000's of units. The 3090, by far Nvidia's most popular ultra high end card, only moved around 600K units after nearly 2 and half years, artifically propped by the largest crypto bubble in history. Well over half (if not a super majority) of its sales were for mining, including regular end users planning on recouping most of the investment with casual down time hashing. The 4090 has move 130K in 1 month with no mining use or demand whatsoever, and not only that, has sold every single unit in less than 1 minute across that entire span (meaning actual demand is several times higher than this figure). Its almost definitely Nvidia's most profitable product launch in history by an incredibly wide margin, they triple their money with every sale. The days of $700 - $1000 cards made from XX102 dies that are 10-20% slower are officially dead and buried with a 21 gun salute. If you want performance from here on out, you'll be paying near or exceeding 2 grand to get it. The GVMERS have spoken.

 

[hlm666]

To put in perspective, earlier this year Nvidia revealed they had sold 20 million 3x00 gpu’s, the vast majority being 3060’s likely.

Pretty sure that 20 million given by nvidia was back in early 2021 before the 3060 had come out, during an earnings conference where they had a slide comparing ampere to turing first quarters using steam hardware data to show gamers were getting cards and they were selling better than turing.

They have to have sold over 50 million ampere gpus by now if you consider their ~80% market share in dgpu.

 

[supernova8]

Its like when people talk about there is no need for pro consoles at this time of no games using the current tech fully and people not having the money due to inflation, but I bet pro consoles would also sell out instantly

It depends on how many they produce but I think from now on we're going to see everything "sell out" initially because it's apparently so easy to scalp these days (and scalpers can just return the product within whatever cool off period they have with the online retailer anyway so there's zero risk).

 

[Buggy Loop]

Pretty sure that 20 million given by nvidia was back in early 2021 before the 3060 had come out, during an earnings conference where they had a slide comparing ampere to turing first quarters using steam hardware data to show gamers were getting cards and they were selling better than turing.

They have to have sold over 50 million ampere gpus by now if you consider their ~80% market share in dgpu.

Not sales numbers but they've taken 1st place generational series in steams hardware survey.

 

[dave_d]

I’m not exactly living in the gutter, but I can’t fathom spending the sort of coin that gets dropped on these halo cards each gen. If you are, you’re either a millionaire or a drug dealer.

Saw this video yesterday which sheds some light on the topic.

Should I even bother to watch or is this a case where the person confuses gross and net? (Since for computer electronics the unit cost tends to be pretty low but the fixed costs are killers.)

 

[Lasha]

Very much so, it's utterly and completely unprecedented. The 10 and 20 series Titan class cards (same price as the 4090) never even charted in Steam Survey's, meaning their lifetime sales were only in the thousands or perhaps very low 10,000's of units. The 3090, by far Nvidia's most popular ultra high end card, only moved around 600K units after nearly 2 and half years, artifically propped by the largest crypto bubble in history. Well over half (if not a super majority) of its sales were for mining. The 4090 has move 130K in 1 month with no mining use or demand whatsoever, and no only that, has sold every single unit in less than 1 minute across that entire span (meaning actual demand is several times higher than this figure). Its almost definitely Nvidia's most profitable product launch in history by an incredibly wide margin, they triple their money with every sale. The days $700 - $1000 cards made from XX102 dies that are 10-20% slower are officially dead and buried with a 21 gun salute. If you want performance from here on out, you'll be paying near or exceeding 2 grand to get it. The GVMERS have spoken.

I think what you wrote is reasonable and I agree high end consumers continue to be insensitive to price. I still think waiting a few quarters will clarify the market's decision as a whole. Especially since the reception of the 4080 appears to be middling. Do you happen to have the quarterly sales figures for the 3090 series? It would be interesting to see the distribution of its sales over time due to the early supply constraints faced around release to map like for like.

 

[Crayon]

Crazy how fast this is selling. Everybody is hating on 4080 tho so it's going to be interesting to see the lower tier cards come out at what prices. And I wonder what's going to become of the low end if a 4060 is like $450 or whatever.

 

[sertopico]

But I didn't bought a 4090 just to max out the games coming out right now (even if we already have a new Crysis in the form of RDR II in my opinion).
No, it is for the rest of the gen. GTA VI, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. II, Silent Hill 2, Atomic Heart, Alan Wake II, Crimson Desert, Fable, Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora are just a few examples that come to mind of games that will undoubtedly look great.

They will, but will they run decently on a 4090 by the time they come out?

For instance, by the time GTA VI will be out an hypothetical 5080-5090 will be on the shelves already. Atomic Heart could maybe squeeze the 4090 a bit, but I'm not sure it's gonna be that spectacular. Alan Wake II? Can't wait to try it, Remedy always pushed the technology a step forward. Regarding the others I got no idea. I'm curious to see how Lovelace will perform with the first UE5 games. Probably good, since they will run on consoles as well, but hopefully we will get something more on PC... Let's see.

 

[ahtlas7]

That is number of chips shipped, not cards sold much less made.

“Note that 100,000 units do not equal the total number of GPUs made or sold. Instead, it is the number of chips that were sent to partners so they could make RTX 4090 models.”

 

[winjer]

That is number of chips shipped, not cards sold much less made.

“Note that 100,000 units do not equal the total number of GPUs made or sold. Instead, it is the number of chips that were sent to partners so they could make RTX 4090 models.”

NVidia confirmed just a few days ago, that they had sold 125.00 units.

 

[jigglet]

lol as if anyone will buy these when you can get a wii u for a fraction of the price.

 

[M1chl]

I’m not exactly living in the gutter, but I can’t fathom spending the sort of coin that gets dropped on these halo cards each gen. If you are, you’re either a millionaire or a drug dealer.

Saw this video yesterday which sheds some light on the topic.

I sort of doubt this is about consumer GPUs, rather than for whole portfolio, on those professional cards, I can see this margin, because Quadro GPUs, Axxx, A100, H100 and stuff like they surely getting paid handsomely, however for consumer, gamer GPUs, I doubt it. In previous generation you could see GPUs with sort of similar specs like consumer GPUs and they were sold at 3-5x the price. The chip simply couldn't be cheap. Also the AIB getting that sweet cash as well if that's the case, the difference between 4090 in my country is like 20% between FE and the some MSI Suprim. If we don't know how much that chip cost for AIB, this video is useless.

Also if that's the markup of any company, then how much you are overpaying for memory.

Same goes for any other company selling a professional product, not just for general public consumers.

 

[KungFucius]

I agree. It’s okay to have a hobby where you splurge beyond just some rational cost/benefit proposition.

Some of us grew up loving PC gaming and now we’re working hard and making real money and can afford the kind of super high-end gaming rig we always dreamed of having.

Exactly. I bought the cheap crap in college and grad school. As soon as Intel hired me I bought a high end i7 machine back when they had the high end chips on different sockets. I didn't immediately jump to the high end GPUs, but I did with the 3090 and again with the 4090. I have always just liked building and upgrading and a few k here and there every couple years is just noise. It's nice having the best and for GPUs the best is a few hundred more than the second best.

I love how I am one of the bad guys for supporting such awfulness. People like us are putting things out of reach by not not buying these cool GPUs. As if that is how anything works. NVidia is just providing a high end product for people who can afford it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And they've sold every single one in under 30 seconds, the vast majority of them being the $1800-$2000 models. People got plenty of money, I LOL every time someone talks about recessions and gas prices.

The recession hasn't fully hit people yet. We've just started to see major layoffs and hiring freezes. Once unemployment starts to creep up, doubt you'll see people buying things like this at this speed/quantity.

That being said, I've always thought Sony could put out a PS5 Pro that was over a grand and there would be a market for it.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

People got plenty of money, I LOL every time someone talks about recessions and gas prices.

Nah, people are idiots who will complain in a few months how broke they are.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Holy crap, that's it? I was asking this question before, how do you measure success? Does 100k units really move the needle on the market? I mean compared to consoles, this is nothing. I mean sony one is selling over 15 times this in a month.

It's no wonder they priced it so high, they knew they would sell the pittance they made.

Dude... this is one model which has barely been out a month... These aren't sold at a loss like consoles, these are sold at considerable margins. Certainly not a pittance.

 

[Desprado123]

The recession hasn't fully hit people yet. We've just started to see major layoffs and hiring freezes. Once unemployment starts to creep up, doubt you'll see people buying things like this at this speed/quantity.

That being said, I've always thought Sony could put out a PS5 Pro that was over a grand and there would be a market for it.

What will be the purpose of PS5 pro when even PS5 has not even fully used yet.

Heck even RTX 2070 Super can run games very well at 1440p without RT on.


This gen bottleneck is software not hardware. Game developers are unable to fully utilize Xbox Series X and PS5 even after 2 years but, when PS4 and Xbox One launched, and in 2014 developers stopped cross gen. So , PS4 and Xbox One has many AAA new games coming next year.

PS5 era will be longest era of any console.

 

[Tomi]

Who the hell cares how many units they shipped/sold

Lower prices or stfu!

 

[Panajev2001a]

Its like when people talk about there is no need for pro consoles at this time of no games using the current tech fully and people not having the money due to inflation, but I bet pro consoles would also sell out instantly

It still would not mean there is a real need and that such money would be better spent in R&D for a proper next-generation machine as improvements in semiconductor tech is generally slowing down (increasing in cost too) and it takes more and more performance improvements to deliver meaningful change in games.

Releasing HW more often is not only hurting the console model itself but not logical either more than consumerism.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What will be the purpose of PS5 pro when even PS5 has not even fully used yet.

Heck even RTX 2070 Super can run games very well at 1440p without RT on.


This gen bottleneck is software not hardware. Game developers are unable to fully utilize Xbox Series X and PS5 even after 2 years but, when PS4 and Xbox One launched, and in 2014 developers stopped cross gen. So , PS4 and Xbox One has many AAA new games coming next year.

PS5 era will be longest era of any console.

The PS5 Pro doesn't need the PS5 to be fully utilized for it to significantly improve games. GT7 in 120hz would be nice for example. Doesn't mean GT8 won't look better than GT7.

Pro consoles will allow devs to focus on 30fps for the base units and 60 fps for the pro units, giving us the graphical fidelity we deserve in a new generation.

What AAA games are coming for last gen next year?

 

[Bonfires Down]

Not sales numbers but they've taken 1st place generational series in steams hardware survey.

I can’t believe how hard AMD is getting stomped. The 6000 series seem to be good cards at good prices unless you absolutely need RT which is really only worth it with the high end cards.

 

[Desprado123]

The PS5 Pro doesn't need the PS5 to be fully utilized for it to significantly improve games. GT7 in 120hz would be nice for example. Doesn't mean GT8 won't look better than GT7.

Pro consoles will allow devs to focus on 30fps for the base units and 60 fps for the pro units, giving us the graphical fidelity we deserve in a new generation.

What AAA games are coming for last gen next year?

Resident Evil 4, Hogwart Legacy, Dead Island 2, Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty, Street Fighter 6, Atomic Heart, Assassins Creed Mirage, Wo Long, Like a Dragon and so on.

​

 

[winjer]

I can’t believe how hard AMD is getting stomped. The 6000 series seem to be good cards at good prices unless you absolutely need RT which is really only worth it with the high end cards.

With the chip shortage, AMD had to make choices about what to make. GPUs were the obvious sacrifice.
So there were few RX 6000 for people to buy, for a long time. And even those, were being snatched up by miners.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It still would not mean there is a real need and that such money would be better spent in R&D for a proper next-generation machine as improvements in semiconductor tech is generally slowing down (increasing in cost too) and it takes more and more performance improvements to deliver meaningful change in games.

Releasing HW more often is not only hurting the console model itself but not logical either more than consumerism.

Andrew House from Sony said himself in an interview the reason they released the PS4 Pro was because Sony had numbers that showed people started leaving consoles for PC about mid gen for improved hardware and the Pro was made to help stop people from leaving.

These Pro models true intention are not meant for anything other than keeping people in their ecosystem, basically giving people a new toy

I would love to see their internal breakdowns of how the pro models actually did in the player retention, this will determine if we see pro models this gen.

If the rumors are true and devs already have pro models then we are 100% seeing them come to market

 

[Gamerdude123]

It wouldn´t surprise me at all if in 5 years a high end gpu will cost $4999 and an entry level one $999.

 

[winjer]

It wouldn´t surprise me at all if in 5 years a high end gpu will cost $4999 and an entry level one $999.

Both AMD and NVidia are getting a lesson in humility. For example, Zen4 and RTX4080 are selling poorly.
And hopefully, they will continue to sell poorly, forcing companies to go back to normal prices.

 

[Gamerdude123]

Both AMD and NVidia are getting a lesson in humility. For example, Zen4 and RTX4080 are selling poorly.
And hopefully, they will continue to sell poorly, forcing companies to go back to normal prices.

let´s hope you are right.

 

[winjer]

let´s hope you are right.

It only depends on us gamers, not to buy these overpriced products.

 

[Gamerdude123]

It only depends on us gamers, not to buy these overpriced products.

that´s exactly why I´m worried.

If gamers actually had a backbone we wouldn´t have microtransactions, lazy remasters,/sequels and games filled with woke stuff. The average person just mindlessly consumes.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Andrew House from Sony said himself in an interview the reason they released the PS4 Pro was because Sony had numbers that showed people started leaving consoles for PC about mid gen for improved hardware and the Pro was made to help stop people from leaving.

These Pro models true intention are not meant for anything other than keeping people in their ecosystem, basically giving people a new toy

I would love to see their internal breakdowns of how the pro models actually did in the player retention, this will determine if we see pro models this gen.

If the rumors are true and devs already have pro models then we are 100% seeing them come to market

I am not saying that they cannot find customers to sell things to, note you have not addressed a single point I made though .

We know that console owners have an upper limit in price and size of the console and we also know that CPU and GPU performance (and the semiconductor manufacturing improvements) are slowing down not speeding up (and the cost to achieve performance improvements is also going up) so it takes longer to achieve that at a reasonable price and power envelope.
We also see that on order to see marked improvements we need bigger and bigger performance jumps. We know designing a console iteration and selling it costs money.

What would releasing more HW more frequently actually help? It also adds more hardware profiles to target which means even more troubles for devs…

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I am not saying that they cannot find customers to sell things to, note you have not addressed a single point I made though .

We know that console owners have an upper limit in price and size of the console and we also know that CPU and GPU performance (and the semiconductor manufacturing improvements) are slowing down not speeding up (and the cost to achieve performance improvements is also going up) so it takes longer to achieve that at a reasonable price and power envelope.
We also see that on order to see marked improvements we need bigger and bigger performance jumps. We know designing a console iteration and selling it costs money.

What would releasing more HW more frequently actually help? It also adds more HE profiles to target which means even more troubles for devs…

I was trying to address what you said by saying these companies are not releasing hardware to help us or help the gaming market, its done solely for their bottom line, literally thats all they care about

I am afraid we have entered cross gen forever and may never see a proper next gen machine because of the price points they want to stay under and chase that dollar of the current install base.

I personally would love to see very nice pro upgrade for even $1000 and see how it would sell as I can't be the only one who would be it, there has to be a market for it

 

[Griffon]

Literally selling to the 1%.

 

[Desprado123]

Andrew House from Sony said himself in an interview the reason they released the PS4 Pro was because Sony had numbers that showed people started leaving consoles for PC about mid gen for improved hardware and the Pro was made to help stop people from leaving.

These Pro models true intention are not meant for anything other than keeping people in their ecosystem, basically giving people a new toy

I would love to see their internal breakdowns of how the pro models actually did in the player retention, this will determine if we see pro models this gen.

If the rumors are true and devs already have pro models then we are 100% seeing them come to market

Well that is not the case at the moment as Devs are still stuck at PS4.

IGN says that Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 was target platform was PS4.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I am not saying that they cannot find customers to sell things to, note you have not addressed a single point I made though .

We know that console owners have an upper limit in price and size of the console and we also know that CPU and GPU performance (and the semiconductor manufacturing improvements) are slowing down not speeding up (and the cost to achieve performance improvements is also going up) so it takes longer to achieve that at a reasonable price and power envelope.
We also see that on order to see marked improvements we need bigger and bigger performance jumps. We know designing a console iteration and selling it costs money.

What would releasing more HW more frequently actually help? It also adds more hardware profiles to target which means even more troubles for devs…

TBH I don’t see the point of generations anymore. All game engines are now cross platform and scale all the way from smartphones up to high end PCs. Likewise most games target several different platforms. Even Sony’s first party games are releasing on PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, and PC.

For better or worse, I think the days of games being hyper-optimized for one specific hardware are long gone. I can totally see consoles becoming more like smartphones where there are frequent updates, and each game has its own requirements for which models it can run on.

 

[Desprado123]

TBH I don’t see the point of generations anymore. All game engines are now cross platform and scale all the way from smartphones up to high end PCs. Likewise most games target several different platforms. Even Sony’s first party games are releasing on PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, and PC.

For better or worse, I think the days of games being hyper-optimized for one specific hardware are long gone. I can totally see consoles becoming more like smartphones where there are frequent updates, and each game has its own requirements for which models it can run on.

It is because Dev are not investing much in new Graphic engines. We have reached the breaking point in graphics and the only thing that this gen can offer is RT.

From PS3 to PS4 it offered to move from 32 bits to 64 bits, graphic advancement, much higher storage requirement, total change in grahpic engine architectures etc ,however, this gen everything is same and there is only additional feature, which is RT. Development has not change like going from PS3 to PS4.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Proud owner of one of them. Yes, the economy isn't as good but my gaming saving is different from my actual saving. I made some money selling GPUs back then It almost made the 4090 FE price for me about 500$ US ( + of course the profit I made out of GPUs the last 3 months of people panicking and selling for cheap, I buy and sell for some little profit here and there ).

the card is amazing, so why not ?

Not everyone needs that much power?

 

[Panajev2001a]

TBH I don’t see the point of generations anymore. All game engines are now cross platform and scale all the way from smartphones up to high end PCs. Likewise most games target several different platforms. Even Sony’s first party games are releasing on PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, and PC.

For better or worse, I think the days of games being hyper-optimized for one specific hardware are long gone. I can totally see consoles becoming more like smartphones where there are frequent updates, and each game has its own requirements for which models it can run on.

Whoa… that would be extremely sad… hopefully you are off the mark. Plenty of innovation on consoles still, look at DualSense, on PC or mobile? I see zero incentives there.

PC’s existed before and so did mobile platform, engines being scalable does not mean you cannot use them in a more targeted way on a console:

 

[Myths]

You can’t even pick up the non-reference cards. It’s like these guys made 100 units and tapped out. Either that, or the retailers allowed their employees to purchase half the inventory just to resell on C2C sites.

 

[Haint]

I think what you wrote is reasonable and I agree high end consumers continue to be insensitive to price. I still think waiting a few quarters will clarify the market's decision as a whole. Especially since the reception of the 4080 appears to be middling. Do you happen to have the quarterly sales figures for the 3090 series? It would be interesting to see the distribution of its sales over time due to the early supply constraints faced around releaseq to map like for like.

They've never revealed sales numbers of any individual cards before AFAIK, which should give you an idea of how historic they consider this. The 3090 numbers are derived from Steam's current 0.50% ranking out of the estimated 120 million monthly users. In truth it's probably over represented as people with unique or high end hardware tend to opt into the random selection voluntary survey far more than people with generic mainstream stuff. GPU mining operations have long been dismantled at this point and most of their cards should be in regular circulation by now.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Not everyone needs that much power?

Everyone need power. Just a matter if you can afford it or not ( speaking in general not u ).

If the 4090 is 500$ and 3090 is 400$. You will pick a 3090 ?

 

[Goon_Bong]

Should I even bother to watch or is this a case where the person confuses gross and net? (Since for computer electronics the unit cost tends to be pretty low but the fixed costs are killers.)

No confusion between gross and net, in fact that is looked at.

 

[SportsFan581]

Its like when people talk about there is no need for pro consoles at this time of no games using the current tech fully and people not having the money due to inflation, but I bet pro consoles would also sell out instantly

Likely sell a lot more than 100k units in a month as well.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Likely sell a lot more than 100k units in a month as well.

If I am being honest I would spend $2000 on a 3080 level console today if I could have that power in some games I don't want to play on PC like the CODs of the world