Wouldn't be surprised if they wanted that sort of thing because it provokes liberals into protests which further splits the electorate into two sides. Crybaby liberals protesting shit that Obama did and not giving Trump a chance is totally the narrative they want.
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NYT: Refugees and immigrants being detained at US airports right now.
- Thread starter Meus Renaissance
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Wouldn't be surprised if they wanted that sort of thing because it provokes liberals into protests which further splits the electorate into two sides. Crybaby liberals protesting shit that Obama did and not giving Trump a chance is totally the narrative they want.
TheOctodad
Member
Crossposting:
This will rile up some, but he's exposing himself. Keep pushing.
Donald Trump has no religion, he only worships himself.
This is just more empty (effective) rhetoric.
Crossposting:
Thanks to the POTUS to give us a great rebuttal to the whole "the EO has nothing to do with religion" nonsense.
Yeah, his tweets have long started to give me "Hitler having a mental breakdown in the bunker" vibes.
He already exposed how he has zero empathy for the people over there when he thought the only goal of the assault on Mosul was to "capture the ISIS leaders there" and nothing more, nothing about breaking ISIS' stronghold in Iraq, nothing about freeing the million civilians trapped there under a brutal occupation.
But I never once saw this point raised after the debates, it was like I was the only one to notice how he had zero empathy or even thought towards the innocent people trapped in the city.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Question.
Were another large-scale terror attack to occur in the US, and the perpetrators were Arabs on a visitor Visa, there would be more bipartisan support for a blanket ban entry for all people from these nations. Would you endorse that? Or would you maintain the position - like you are now - that it prejudices against all Muslims?
Is the issue here that such a ban is unethical and therefore unacceptable in any circumstance, or is it the suspicion that this is only the beginning of something greater by an administration filled with far-right members?
Were another large-scale terror attack to occur in the US, and the perpetrators were Arabs on a visitor Visa, there would be more bipartisan support for a blanket ban entry for all people from these nations. Would you endorse that? Or would you maintain the position - like you are now - that it prejudices against all Muslims?
Is the issue here that such a ban is unethical and therefore unacceptable in any circumstance, or is it the suspicion that this is only the beginning of something greater by an administration filled with far-right members?
Already Torn
Banned
Of course not.
I'm telling you Bannon and Miller are like kids in a candy store. They got all this power and are drunk with it. They are doing too much way too fucking fast.
Like you said Trump could have gotten away with this if he just took his time. Went through congress and worked out the particulars. Anyone with a Visa/Green card would be exempt and you'd probably have the American people ok with this.
But nope. They are just drafting up shit and Trump not knowing shit about anything is just signing and it's creating chaos.
TheOctodad
Member
No.
And there's a huge difference between pausing something right after a terror attack for a few hours/days and what's happening here.
BlastProcessing
Member
Both and the proximity to a terrorist attack is in no way relevant to any of this.
of course no one would. Because that's the type of discrimination everyone is supposed to be against
The ban is unethical and painful to legal residents of the US.
Chocolate & Vanilla
Fuck Strawberry
Arab =/= Muslim =/= Iranian =/= Kurdish =/= Somalian. Shall I go on
That's just the first thing wrong with your question
onadesertedisland
Member
Terrorism is a political problem, not a military or national security one. The fear of terrorism is exploited by the ruling class for whatever means they feel necessary.
I would not support any ban of any people just because of a few radicals did something. Preventing terrorism by banning a country or region is like burning a park because your dog got fleas. It doesn't prevent anything and it actually causes everyone to lose sympathy for your injury.
Meus Renaissance
Member
I ask because I honestly don't know whether we'd be seeing this level of support and protest against this were such draconian measures brought in following a terror attack.
You are all decent people.
You are all decent people.
If a white supremacist group from a European country committed a similar act, would a similar ban be endorsed?
I doubt it.
There are many reasons to be against this ban and it's hard to speculate on an event you give no real details on.
The ban stokes Islamic fear with no real basis in reality. As Guilliani said, it started with being a Muslim ban and then was basically the closest legal thing we could get away with. The rhetoric that leads up to something like this can be dangerous in and of itself. We need to work with countries that are primarily Muslim. We also need to show people that we are not at war with Islam and instead terrorists.
The ban doesn't actually do anything to help national security. Including and since 9/11, no one from any of these countries has done anything terror related at all. Even if one person randomly did, then that doesn't really change the math terribly much. Should we look at our process should something happen? Sure, but 1 out of ~800,000 really isn't that much worse than 0 out of ~800,000.
The ban itself ruins our moral standing and our foreign relations with allies who are taking refugees from Syria and other countries.
The ban weakens our relationship with crucial allies in the field, like translators and other fighters in Iraq, etc, who counted on being able to escape a country where they will be targeted for helping us.
The ban causes reactions from other nations that could put us strategically in jeopardy, like Iran and Iraq banning us in return. We may need to go into those areas and now we have hostilities.
In addition to being bad policy, the ban itself was insanely poorly implemented and caused a lot of chaos.
There's just a lot of to take into account without knowing what exact situation your'e talking about. Most of these things wouldn't suddenly become ok if one action happened tomorrow from an affected country. Or it wouldn't be suddenly ok if the country list included Saudi Arabia. A good administration needs to take all of these factors into account, not just scared hicks in the US. In order to keep people safe our standing in the world matters.
Completely agreed, well quoted.
We should be thankful that we're dealing with an evil buffoon and not an evil genius.
Meus Renaissance
Member
The Guardian is now reporting that the ban will no longer apply to Green Card holders. It was absurd to begin with. Let's see what more can be done to overturn this.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...not_b-webalert#block-588e1cc0e4b0f1550c0da070
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...not_b-webalert#block-588e1cc0e4b0f1550c0da070
BlastProcessing
Member
I don't understand what you are doing here. You lead your post with a call for objectivity, but then you repeatedly attempt to inject an emotionally charged "but what if terrorism?" caviat.
Now the strange appeal to decency... I don't get it.
Christian Leaders Denounce Trumps Plan to Favor Christian Immigrants; https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/...grants.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
BlastProcessing
Member
Christian groups have always been the backbone of refugee immigration in America, even the hyper conservative ones like the Southern Baptists. It was never a partisan issue.
everyday math
Banned
If I were them I would be pretty god damn pissed at Trump. I know many Christians and other people of different faiths that have taken in refugees over their lifetime.
Meus Renaissance
Member
This google document shows lists Senators alphabetically, noting whether they have opposed or remained silent to the ban, any link or public statement about it and the dates of their next re-election.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...L59oJkkhx146nFE/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...L59oJkkhx146nFE/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true
TheOctodad
Member
Even Focus on the Family chimed in.
This is a big deal for conservative Christians even. Two things you don't mess with 1) Missions (immigration/travel) 2) Adoption
Those two are absolutely sacred.
This was a colossal error. I have a lot of people that "voted for Trump, but I'm not racist." That are starting to voice their disappointment with this choice.
everyday math
Banned
Both my parents are in that camp (were not racist but we vote trump because we're catholic). I visited for breakfast this morning and they both admit his choices are extremely worrysome and they regret voting for him.
Oh and their insurance is about to go to shit. They're worried about that too
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Crossposting:
Funny in contrast to how they didn't mention Jews for holocaust remembrance day..thought it was about everyone who's suffered, no? Cock snot..
EmCeeGramr
Member
TheExhaustedWalrus
Member
From a Christian point of view, boy oh boy does that Trump tweet get me heated. Aching to pit people against each other. That's not what I am about at all.
Nothing good.
CrocMother
Banned
It means they are afraid of pissing off their boss.
TheOctodad
Member
Yup. The amount of defenders this week has drastically dropped. It's either silence or dissent.
They dun goofed and they know it.
everyday math
Banned
Well, it's all different takes on the Bible and Jesus. The Bible has so many contradiction that you can cherry pick.
TheOctodad
Member
It really isn't.
Jesus is pretty upfront about all of this. There's very few pastors that would disagree.
Unless they're in it for the money/fame.
These moments show you who's for real.
Good man.
There was nothing but pure sinister thoughts put into this. They are fucking up. I wish nothing but success for the protests today that keep this issue on the forefront.
gutter_trash
Banned
Trump is full of shit on 2 counts on this matter
1) about Chrisitians Syrians, a Christian Syrian family (refugees) were denied entry yesterday. Customs agents don't give a fuck, they can't tell the difference
2), none of the countries where the 9/11 hijackers hailed from are on his stupid list.
1) about Chrisitians Syrians, a Christian Syrian family (refugees) were denied entry yesterday. Customs agents don't give a fuck, they can't tell the difference
2), none of the countries where the 9/11 hijackers hailed from are on his stupid list.
He didn't just not mention them, he all-lives-mattered Jewish peeps on Holocaust Reemberance Day.
Non-believers should also be a top priority since they are also being persecuted, but since Bannon want's to destroy secualism, that's not happening.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/07/why-steve-bannon-wants-to-destroy-secularism
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/07/why-steve-bannon-wants-to-destroy-secularism
everyday math
Banned
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Nearly all school shootings are committed by white anglo saxon protestants and I don't see anybody pushing for a white ban.
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