Obesity as a Disease

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Zefah said:
What does an average day of eating look like for you?
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I have breakfast, lunch and dinner but feel hungry between lunch and dinner so snack. Then late in the evening i'll feel hungry again and have another snack. My calorie count can therefore be higher than the daily recommended for men.

I do exercise but it's hard getting the weight off.

The only time l managed to discipline myself (i.e., limit the calories l eat) was using MyFitnessPal but it only last a month then i'm back to my old ways. I'll overeat a few days like I've been starved for a month.
 
blastprocessor said:
I have breakfast, lunch and dinner but feel hungry between lunch and dinner so snack. Then late in the evening i'll feel hungry again and have another snack. My calorie count can therefore be higher than the daily recommended for men.

I do exercise but it's hard getting the weight off.

The only time l managed to discipline myself (i.e., limit the calories l eat) was using MyFitnessPal but it only last a month then i'm back to my old ways.
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I mean, what kind of foods do you eat for your meals?
 
blastprocessor said:
Breakfast:- Egg McMuffin with Coffee or Fruit N fibre Cereal
Lunch: Sandwich
Meal: Pizza, Pasta, Curry

Snacks could Crisps, Yoghurt, Chocolate, Fruit Juices, Fruits, Biscuits.
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So pretty much non-stop sugar. You're creating a roller coaster of blood sugar spikes and crashes throughout the day. This is why you are hungry.

blastprocessor said:
That's my problem. If l go on a salad diet and combine with exercise l lose weight but then revert to my old diet and put it back on. I know diet and exercise are key but hunger and the lust for tasty food overrules me.
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A salad diet with exercise is just starvation and you'll only be miserable. This is not a sane or healthy way to lose weight and it's not wonder you (and everyone else) rebounds. It's a straight shot to depression land.
 
blastprocessor said:
That's my problem. If l go on a salad diet and combine with exercise l lose weight but then revert to my old diet and put it back on. I know diet and exercise are key but hunger and the lust for tasty food overrules me.
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I hear you brother.

I had great luck by mentally eating only the most boring of foods and turning eating into a function and not something I enjoy.

This marks year 4 of plain chicken breast for dinner.
 
Zefah said:
Show some empathy. Using yourself as an example is just ridiculous. Don't you lift heavy shit for your job day in and day out and then hit the weights heavy multiple times a week?

You're probably fully depleting your glycogen stores on a daily basis which is why you can get away with consuming so much crap and still remain quite lean.

Most people, for whom "exercise" might be a stroll in the park, need to be much more careful with their sugar and starch consumption.
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I have self control, you don't think I want to devour the 4 bags of chips and all the gummy bears in my pantry?

I also just had a week off work and exercise because of septoplasty where I sat on my ass the entire time. Why didn't I lose a pound or put on 20lbs? I counted my calories and kept a reasonable protein intake... I ate gummy bears and drank milk...

Laziness is not a disease/disorder either.
 
blastprocessor said:
That's my problem. If l go on a salad diet and combine with exercise l lose weight but then revert to my old diet and put it back on. I know diet and exercise are key but hunger and the lust for tasty food overrules me.
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I had the same problem, so I started doing Intermittent Fasting. I only ate between 4PM-8PM. I would start with a salad or soup around 4, and an hour later have my main meal. I would be really full until 7, then would finish it off with some kind of small meal/snack. Usually it would be Greek yoghurt with some walnuts or a glass of almond milk.

The first week wasn't even that hard. I realized that I wasn't even hungry for breakfast. Even if I had any cravings until 4, I would just drink water and tea, and it would go away.

By the time I had my last bit of food at 8pm, I wouldn't even be hungry anymore. I would recommend you giving this a try.

Doesn't have to be the same time-frame, I tried out a few different times before setting on my current one.
 
MrToughPants said:
I have self control, you don't think I want to devour the 4 bags of chips and all the gummy bears in my pantry?

I also just had a week off work and exercise because of septoplasty where I sat on my ass the entire time. Why didn't I lose a pound or put on 20lbs? I counted my calories and kept a reasonable protein intake... I ate gummy bears and drank milk...

Laziness is not a disease/disorder either.
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In regards to the bold... I'd honestly put it more down to the fact that it was just one week.
 
MrToughPants said:
I have self control, you don't think I want to devour the 4 bags of chips and all the gummy bears in my pantry?

I also just had a week off work and exercise because of septoplasty where I sat on my ass the entire time. Why didn't I lose a pound or put on 20lbs? I counted my calories and kept a reasonable protein intake... I ate gummy bears and drank milk...

Laziness is not a disease/disorder either.
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Alcoholics are lazy people. I can have a drink or two and stop. They instead just sit around drinking all day. Just stop after 1 drink. It's easy, I do that all the time
 
MrToughPants said:
I have self control, you don't think I want to devour the 4 bags of chips and all the gummy bears in my pantry?

I also just had a week off work and exercise because of septoplasty where I sat on my ass the entire time. Why didn't I lose a pound or put on 20lbs? I counted my calories and kept a reasonable protein intake... I ate gummy bears and drank milk...

Laziness is not a disease/disorder either.
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Great, make sure you smile when you're put on the cover of Willpower Today.
 
It's my understanding that obesity on the individual level has a lot more to do with genes and biochemical imbalances than with a lack of self-control or gluttony.
 
Vince McMahon said:
I hear you brother.

I had great luck by mentally eating only the most boring of foods and turning eating into a function and not something I enjoy.

This marks year 4 of plain chicken breast for dinner.
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I think this is so very important. When you take the joy out of eating and treat it as solely a means of survival things become much easier. Not saying you can't have special meals that are designed as a reward and fully meant to be enjoyed but when you feel like food is your every day go to for pleasure it is very easy to form bad habits.
 
Log4Girlz said:
Alcoholics are lazy people. I can have a drink or two and stop. They instead just sit around drinking all day. Just stop after 1 drink. It's easy, I do that all the time
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You were replying to someone else, but I'll stir the pot further and say that I don't think alcoholism is a disease either. I know that some people are genetically more susceptible to addiction than others, but I don't think that qualifies as a disease.

Do we have an Alcoholism as a Disease thread? If not, there should be.
 
chadtwo said:
It's my understanding that obesity on the individual level has a lot more to do with genes and biochemical imbalances than with a lack of self-control or gluttony.
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Then why such a drastic shift in average American weight over the past 100 years? Everyone's genes changed? In so few generations?
 
Food can be addicting, very very true.

I kind of agree with the study at some level. People get addicted to crap food, crap food is cheap as well and easy to eat a ton of. It gives people pleasure as it is easily digestible and tasty. If people grew up eating crap food, its all the harder for them to stop.

I ate bad for quite a while, it wasn't until I changed my habits entirely and switched to a mostly non-processed diet that I realized how easy it was to overeat with simply carbs. Like everything else, this issue isn't as black and white as people being lazy or greedy, its a whole host of issues.
 
Darksol said:
You were replying to someone else, but I'll stir the pot further and say that I don't think alcoholism is a disease either. I know that some people are genetically more susceptible to addiction than others, but I don't think that qualifies as a disease.

Do we have an Alcoholism as a Disease thread? If not, there should be.
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People add the "ism" like it is some disease or disorder. Ignorance is not a disease. Drinking does not lead to alcoholism. Drinking specific drinks with specific chemicals, namely alcohols are what cause alcoholism. It's a simple numbers game. First, most drinks are devoid of alcohol. So using simple probabilities you are unlikely to randomly pick up fluids containing alcohol. Second, alcoholic drinks have labels giving % numbers by volume of alcohol content. Boom goes the dynamite, limit the drinking of beverages which have higher percentages. Drinks with very high percentages should be limited to just a few ounces. Alcohol is also NOT an essential nutrient. You don't NEED alcohol and despite the caloric value, is not a recommended source of calories.

Armed with this knowledge it should be easy for anyone actually interested in using their will power to conquer alcohol dependency practically instantly. People who choose not to are just lazy. They'd rather sit around and drink all day and watch their health and personal relationships collapse because reasons.

Again, it is very very easy for me to limit my drinking BECAUSE it is inherently easy to watch what you drink :/
 
Obesity in those that are exposed to the standard Western diet of sugar in everything are addicted. Sugar is a drug and should be treated as such. Besides the addiction/withdrawal aspect there are other physiological changes as a result of overly excessive sugar consumption for years on end.. insulin resistance, leptin resistance, intestinal flora. Toss in societal attitudes and psychological belittling and there is no wonder there is a problem.
 
Log4Girlz said:
People add the "ism" like it is some disease or disorder. Ignorance is not a disease. Drinking does not lead to alcoholism. Drinking specific drinks with specific chemicals, namely alcohols are what cause alcoholism. It's a simple numbers game. First, most drinks are devoid of alcohol. So using simple probabilities you are unlikely to randomly pick up fluids containing alcohol. Second, alcoholic drinks have labels giving % numbers by volume of alcohol content. Boom goes the dynamite, limit the drinking of beverages which have higher percentages. Drinks with very high percentages should be limited to just a few ounces. Alcohol is also NOT an essential nutrient. You don't NEED alcohol and despite the caloric value, is not a recommended source of calories.

Armed with this knowledge it should be easy for anyone actually interested in using their will power to conquer alcohol dependency practically instantly. People who choose not to are just lazy. They'd rather sit around and drink all day and watch their health and personal relationships collapse because reasons.

Again, it is very very easy for me to limit my drinking BECAUSE it is inherently easy to watch what you drink :/
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Some people are more likely to become chemically dependent, its just a fact. The whole point of addiction is that you can't look at it from a logical perspective, its an addiction, compulsion, logic doesn't stop the act, it cant.
 
water_wendi said:
Obesity in those that are exposed to the standard Western diet of sugar in everything are addicted. Sugar is a drug and should be treated as such. Besides the addiction/withdrawal aspect there are other physiological changes as a result of overly excessive sugar consumption for years on end.. insulin resistance, leptin resistance, intestinal flora. Toss in societal attitudes and psychological belittling and there is no wonder there is a problem.
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All of this, indeed. Sugar and carbohydrates that easily break down into glucose in the blood really do need to be looked at as a drug. Their physiological effects are profound.

I always find it funny how ketogenesis is often treated as some strange or novel thing, when, in fact, it is the default state of being for us and is generally only disrupted when carbohydrates are introduced to the system.
 
chadtwo said:
It's my understanding that obesity on the individual level has a lot more to do with genes and biochemical imbalances than with a lack of self-control or gluttony.
Click to expand...

From a former fat guy and somebody who has done weight watchers, the only cure I've witnessed that works for every obese person is less food and more exercise. Every person that has every been succesful on weight watchers has worked the program and changed their eating habits. It's not like you see anybody that is obese who exercises at a high level of intensity and lives off of 2000ckals of fruits, lean meats, and veggies.

I don't think you can compare obesity to alcohoism either. I'm a recovering alcoholic (4 months sober) and not drinking has been a lot harder than losing the 50lbs I lost 3 years ago. If I mess up and eat something crappy, I am able to course correct and still lose weight without too many ramifications. If I were to mess up and have a drink then things would not be so easy to correct.
 
Log4Girlz said:
People add the "ism" like it is some disease or disorder. Ignorance is not a disease. Drinking does not lead to alcoholism. Drinking specific drinks with specific chemicals, namely alcohols are what cause alcoholism. It's a simple numbers game. First, most drinks are devoid of alcohol. So using simple probabilities you are unlikely to randomly pick up fluids containing alcohol. Second, alcoholic drinks have labels giving % numbers by volume of alcohol content. Boom goes the dynamite, limit the drinking of beverages which have higher percentages. Drinks with very high percentages should be limited to just a few ounces. Alcohol is also NOT an essential nutrient. You don't NEED alcohol and despite the caloric value, is not a recommended source of calories.

Armed with this knowledge it should be easy for anyone actually interested in using their will power to conquer alcohol dependency practically instantly. People who choose not to are just lazy. They'd rather sit around and drink all day and watch their health and personal relationships collapse because reasons.

Again, it is very very easy for me to limit my drinking BECAUSE it is inherently easy to watch what you drink :/
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Really? This is sarcasm, right? Because I can tell you that alcohlisim is not due to lack of laziness. You ever see somebody go through alcohol detox? You think that's something that can be instantly done?
 
bro1 said:
I don't think you can compare obesity to alcohoism either. I'm a recovering alcoholic (4 months sober) and not drinking has been a lot harder than losing the 50lbs I lost 3 years ago. If I mess up and eat something crappy, I am able to course correct and still lose weight without too many ramifications. If I were to mess up and have a drink then things would not be so easy to correct.
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And that's probably why you suffered from alcoholism rather than chronic obesity.

Not everyone is the same. Judging everyone else based off your own personal experience is never a very wise thing to do.
 
Zefah said:
And that's probably why you suffered from alcoholism rather than chronic obesity.

Not everyone is the same. Judging everyone else based off your own personal experience is never a very wise thing to do.
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First, we all judge others off of our own experience.

Second, I'm an alcoholic because I drank too much for too many years and became chemically dependant on it. In order to "cure" myself, I had to stop drinking.

I "cured" my obesity by limiting my calories and working out more. I still can eat any food I want, as long as I do it in moderation. I can't dot that with alcohol. If I have a drink, I drink until I blackout. I then crave the alcohol, and think about it when I'm not drinking it. When I eat a cookie, I don't eat cookies until I throw up or have anxiety about where my next cookie is coming from.
 
bro1 said:
First, we all judge others off of our own experience.

Second, I'm an alcoholic because I drank too much for too many years and became chemically dependant on it. In order to "cure" myself, I had to stop drinking.

I "cured" my obesity by limiting my calories and working out more. I still can eat any food I want, as long as I do it in moderation. I can't dot that with alcohol. If I have a drink, I drink until I blackout. I then crave the alcohol, and think about it when I'm not drinking it. When I eat a cookie, I don't eat cookies until I throw up or have anxiety about where my next cookie is coming from.
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So, because you can do one thing in regards to food and are unable to do another thing in regards to alcohol, you think that everyone should be held by the same standards?
 
Zefah said:
So, because you can do one thing in regards to food and are unable to do another thing in regards to alcohol, you think that everyone should be held by the same standards?
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Alcoholism and drug addiction are not the same as somebody who eats too much. Obese people can function normally and generally don't destroy their lives or the ones around them. Obese people don't generally steal money or commit illegal acts to get more money so they can feed their addiction. Alcoholics and drug addicts generally can't function at a normal capacity.
 
bro1 said:
Alcoholism and drug addiction are not the same as somebody who eats too much. Obese people can function normally and generally don't destroy their lives or the ones around them. Obese people don't generally steal money or commit illegal acts to get more money so they can feed their addiction. Alcoholics and drug addicts generally can't function at a normal capacity.
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They're not the same, they are different but that does not mean obesity can't be a disorder. Not all addictions result from a physical dependence.
 
bro1 said:
First, we all judge others off of our own experience.
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In the sense that nobody is perfect, sure, we do. Some of us try hard to avoid such anecdotal analysis, however.

Second, I'm an alcoholic because I drank too much for too many years and became chemically dependant on it. In order to "cure" myself, I had to stop drinking.

I "cured" my obesity by limiting my calories and working out more. I still can eat any food I want, as long as I do it in moderation. I can't dot that with alcohol. If I have a drink, I drink until I blackout. I then crave the alcohol, and think about it when I'm not drinking it. When I eat a cookie, I don't eat cookies until I throw up or have anxiety about where my next cookie is coming from.
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There is significant evidence that sugar can be a chemically as well as psychologically addictive. However, classification as a disorder does not require physical dependence.
 
bro1 said:
Alcoholics and drug addicts generally can't function at a normal capacity.
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This runs counter to what I've heard before, that addicts can function quite well at work, in social circles, etc, and it's only after a certain threshold of one's addiction that it all falls apart, and rather abruptly.
 
King Mac of Furry Frog said:
Doesn't matter what you call it, at the end of the day you're still the one doing the shit to your body.

Willpower exists.
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Right, but can everyone produce the same amount of willpower at any given moment? That I think you'll struggle to prove.

MrToughPants said:
I have self control, you don't think I want to devour the 4 bags of chips and all the gummy bears in my pantry?

I also just had a week off work and exercise because of septoplasty where I sat on my ass the entire time. Why didn't I lose a pound or put on 20lbs? I counted my calories and kept a reasonable protein intake... I ate gummy bears and drank milk...

Laziness is not a disease/disorder either.
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I'll bite. Why can't laziness be a disease or disorder? If people are obese because they are lazy, and obesity rates are rising across the globe, it follows that much of the entire world is suffering from a laziness epidemic that started springing up a few years ago. Sounds like a viral epidemic if you ask me, like bird flu.

Zefah said:
All of this, indeed. Sugar and carbohydrates that easily break down into glucose in the blood really do need to be looked at as a drug. Their physiological effects are profound.

I always find it funny how ketogenesis is often treated as some strange or novel thing, when, in fact, it is the default state of being for us and is generally only disrupted when carbohydrates are introduced to the system.
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Don't vegetables have carbs?
 
CornBurrito said:
Don't vegetables have carbs?
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What kind of vegetables? Stuff like spinach, broccoli, and celery (amongst others) generally aren't counted because of their fiber content and relative lack of any real effect on blood glucose.
 
Zefah said:
What kind of vegetables? Stuff like spinach, broccoli, and celery (amongst others) generally aren't counted because of their fiber content and relative lack of any real effect on blood glucose.
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Vegetables that are commonly consumed by humans and non-human animals in the wild. I find it hard to believe the "natural" state of affairs is that humans subsist entirely on meat and broccoli/spinach.
 
CornBurrito said:
Vegetables that are commonly consumed by humans and non-human animals in the wild. I find it hard to believe the "natural" state of affairs is that humans subsist entirely on meat and broccoli/spinach.
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I don't think I ever said that. I just said that the body's default state is one of ketogenesis. Homeostasis, if you will. Spiking blood sugar with foods that easily turn into glucose will throw it out of that state and trigger a variety of compensatory effects within the body to bring it back in the direction of ketogenesis.

That's not to say that carbs should be avoided like the plague. They can be extremely useful depending on your goals. They just aren't very helpful when it comes to trying to lose body fat, since it becomes very difficult to mobilize body fat as a source of energy when glucose is present.
 
Obesity is not necessarily the 100% fault of the person who is obese. Our own body chemistry and brains are working against us in this regard. We are hard wired to obtain those tasty, tasty calories. The reason that obesity has become an epidemic is not because people are now worse at making choices, it's because cheap food is now unhealthy food. The fact that our poorest citizens are now also the fattest in Western nations is proof enough of that.

But that doesn't mean that choices don't play a part in how obese we become or reversing the problem. Certainly, it is entirely within the power of most individuals to make healthier choices and treat themselves. I think my biggest issue with the "fat acceptance" movement is that people are starting to identify with their own obesity and making it part of their identity. It's referring to "fat people" rather than "people who are currently fat". When you see yourself as a "fat person", then you've given up all hope for being healthier.
 
The reason that obesity has become an epidemic is not because people are now worse at making choices, it's because cheap food is now unhealthy food. The fact that our poorest citizens are now also the fattest in Western nations is proof enough of that.
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Im not quite sure about the food prices in the USA, but here in Germany you can still eat healthy, while not spending much money.
You just have to cook sth. yourself, instead of eating frozen food or using the microwave for food.

I would say it has, at least in Germany, more to do with people being too lazy to stand in the kitchen for 30minutes to 1 hour (or longer) to cook something, than to just put food into the microwave.
Money isnt really the problem.
 
Darksol said:
Then why such a drastic shift in average American weight over the past 100 years? Everyone's genes changed? In so few generations?
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Like my post says, I'm only talking about obesity on the individual level. On the societal level, there are absolutely factors today that didn't exist several hundred years ago.

bro1 said:
From a former fat guy and somebody who has done weight watchers, the only cure I've witnessed that works for every obese person is less food and more exercise. Every person that has every been succesful on weight watchers has worked the program and changed their eating habits. It's not like you see anybody that is obese who exercises at a high level of intensity and lives off of 2000ckals of fruits, lean meats, and veggies.
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Right, what I'm saying is that I think obesity on the individual level is rarely due to simply being weak-willed but more often due to hard to control biological factors. Consider that obese people have (often due to childhood eating patterns or genetic predisposition) tens of billions more fat cells than the average person. These extra fat cells never go away -- even if you diet, they'll shrink but not decrease in actual number. The actual number of fat cells can't be helped. The other thing to consider is metabolic settling point -- obese people's metabolic rate settles to their weight, so that upon losing weight their bodies will literally react as if being starved. This in turn causes a decrease in metabolic rate, so that even eating a normal amount of food often causes a weight increase. It's why the majority of obese people who lose weight due to dieting eventually gain it back -- not because they're weak-willed, but because their bodies are responding to what it incorrectly perceives as an unhealthy decrease in caloric intake.
 
Chairmanchuck said:
Im not quite sure about the food prices in the USA, but here in Germany you can still eat healthy, while not spending much money.
You just have to cook sth. yourself, instead of eating frozen food or using the microwave for food.

I would say it has, at least in Germany, more to do with people being too lazy to stand in the kitchen for 30minutes to 1 hour (or longer) to cook something, than to just put food into the microwave.
Money isnt really the problem.
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It's expensive and sometime inconvenient to a certain lifestyle to eat healthy here in the USA.
 
Chairmanchuck said:
Im not quite sure about the food prices in the USA, but here in Germany you can still eat healthy, while not spending much money.
You just have to cook sth. yourself, instead of eating frozen food or using the microwave for food.

I would say it has, at least in Germany, more to do with people being too lazy to stand in the kitchen for 30minutes to 1 hour (or longer) to cook something, than to just put food into the microwave.
Money isnt really the problem.
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These differences probably explain why Germany is still skinnier than the US. The US has an environment more conducive to weight gain. It seems like your point was to say that prices may not be a problem (and they may not be in Germany), but instead what your personal anecdotal evidence explains is why the weight problem is more pronounced in the US than in Germany.

Chairmanchuck said:
Really? So it is more expensive to buy some carrots, potatoes and ham and make some stew/soup out of it, than some "microwave" food?
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It certainly can be, yes. Gas prices are a significant consideration in this regard.
 
As a formerly overweight, maybe even obese, human being who had and still has a ridiculous compulsion to eat a lot of food, I have to say that yes, it is a disease. But there are so many ways around it that you can't argue it's not preventable, even if you have an eating disorder. Count calories. Don't eat or drink shit - making good choices is the entire battle. Set a plan for yourself and stick to it. Don't make excuses for yourself because you'll get on a slippery slope and then wonder why your diet and/or work out plan isn't working. Do some research - what has carbs/sugar? Avoid that. Control your portions - eating healthy doesn't mean anything if you let yourself eat a ton "because it's healthy/healthier than what I usually eat". Then set one day a week where you let yourself eat shitty things because, hey - we all want to, skinny people included. It's about self control. "But I feel compelled to drink soda or eat pizza", you say. Of course you do - I do too - but I only do it once a week.

If you live in a civilized society where you can choose what and how much you put in your system, you can't make excuses. Wheat over white, water over soda, vegetables over Ritz Crackers/whatever other terrible preservative filled snacks they sell in stores. The locus of control rests with you - temptation to eat poorly is not an excuse.
 
People seem to think if it's self-inflicted it isn't a disease. It totally is, if you smoke and get cancer, cancer is still a disease. If you have an unhealthy lifestyle, heart disease and diabetes are still diseases. As for addiction, the substance someone is addicted too has altered their brain chemistry and mental health, it's a disease.
 
Opiate said:
These differences probably explain why Germany is still skinnier than the US. The US has an environment more conducive to weight gain. It seems like your point was to say that prices may not be a problem (and they may not be in Germany), but instead what your personal anecdotal evidence explains is why the weight problem is more pronounced in the US than in Germany.
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Yeah. We also have the most obese people in europe IIRC, but at least here it seems to boil down more to education than to prices. It is far easier to just put a pizza in the oven for 10 minutes, than going to a supermarket, farmer etc. and buy all the ingredients and then still stand in the kitchen "just" for food.
 
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