Throwaway123456789
Member
It really isn't. The weight and general crappy design of the HMZ-T1 makes it painful to use over time. Still, the effect is mind blowing when you get it set up. The Rift looks like it's a bazillion times more comfy.
Huh?
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Oculus Rift Kickstarter [Ended, $2.4 million funded]
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It really isn't. The weight and general crappy design of the HMZ-T1 makes it painful to use over time. Still, the effect is mind blowing when you get it set up. The Rift looks like it's a bazillion times more comfy.
Huh?
If it feels like your there rather than looking at a screen then of course it's immersion. (assuming it's close to that good)
It's like the difference of looking at a picture from the outside compared to stepping into that picture and actually being there.
Same gameplay just in first person maybe?
Even if it's still in 3rd person, feeling like your so close to the action plus the 3D should make it feel more immersive.
(oops triple post)
Yeah I don't quite get why the Ouya keeps getting mentioned. A straight up gaming PC is bound to get a lot more mod support. I certainly won't be streaming anywhere near a device so magnificently tailored to low-latency gaming.
As always I think HMDs are great and I can't wait to see where displays go next. I'm still not sold on head-tracking beyond simple TrackIR related movements. I'd actually prefer to have a device I can use comfortably reclined.
Just ignore him. He's one of the worst new juniors on Gaf that post constantly. Even worse when he doesn't bother to capitalize properly.
Software will need to support the device..
though many people will mod it into PC games which is great.
Fatal Futanari
Member
So if I, a consumer, where to back this. I would basically would be paying $300 to play Doom 3 with it right? (of course modders might integrate support into other games)
I'd say there'd be alot more support modded in to alot of games.. Maybe even patched in officially due to Valve and Epic being on board.
I'm looking forward to see how racing and flight sims play with it. I can never get my TrackIR calibrated right.
Fuck yeah.
I've been watching this ever since Palmer started tinkering around with optics over at mtbs3d.
From experience, Palmer is the shit. He modded an old HMD of mine that actually has an even bigger FOV than the rift(Liquid Image MRG2.2) by upgrading the low res screen. Now, that HMD does not support 3D, but his work was still great. He even added slight "rumble" support to ever so slightly "feel" parts of the gameplay.
In other words, I trust him. We've traded HMD's in the past and he has modded one for me in the past and everything he has done in the niche VR world has been pretty awesome.
Backed like a motherfucker.
I've been watching this ever since Palmer started tinkering around with optics over at mtbs3d.
From experience, Palmer is the shit. He modded an old HMD of mine that actually has an even bigger FOV than the rift(Liquid Image MRG2.2) by upgrading the low res screen. Now, that HMD does not support 3D, but his work was still great. He even added slight "rumble" support to ever so slightly "feel" parts of the gameplay.
In other words, I trust him. We've traded HMD's in the past and he has modded one for me in the past and everything he has done in the niche VR world has been pretty awesome.
Backed like a motherfucker.
I am confident that the VR community will have mods out shortly after devkits get released.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Does that 100 inch screen gives you 3D and tracks your head? Thought so!
I had one too. Hated it and got an 80 inch 1080p HDTV goodness instead.
Littlegator
Banned
projector gaf will devour your soul
I've got a 240" 1080p screen, but it's not the same as a HMD. That said, I'm holding off on the RIFT until I can get it in 1080p.
I wish them the best. I can't financially justify getting a dev unit, but I donated $10 to the "cause".
When people say, "I'll wait for the 1080p version," I wonder if they mean some future model based on a 3840x1080 display. Because it doesn't seem like 1920x1080, split between two eyes and then slathered across 100 degrees of viewing angle would be much of a game changer, as compared to what they are already offering. (Ie. If you're too proud to slum with 640x800 today, I doubt 960x1080 is going to be dramatically more acceptable a year from now.)
The idea of re-setting the resolution wars back a few years is kind of interesting, frankly. A halfway decent laptop graphics chipset would be able to drive a 720p display pretty well. That means portable VR would be do-able immediately. Keep the resolutions somewhat modest, and you could tether the headset to a smartphone before very long.
When people say, "I'll wait for the 1080p version," I wonder if they mean some future model based on a 3840x1080 display. Because it doesn't seem like 1920x1080, split between two eyes and then slathered across 100 degrees of viewing angle would be much of a game changer, as compared to what they are already offering. (Ie. If you're too proud to slum with 640x800 today, I doubt 960x1080 is going to be dramatically more acceptable a year from now.)
The idea of re-setting the resolution wars back a few years is kind of interesting, frankly. A halfway decent laptop graphics chipset would be able to drive a 720p display pretty well. That means portable VR would be do-able immediately. Keep the resolutions somewhat modest, and you could tether the headset to a smartphone before very long.
It has an integrated gyro/motion sensor, yeah.
Since you asked for a comparison to the HMZ:
HMZ wins:
+ contrast
+ resolution
+ pixel switching times
+ compatibility
Rift wins:
+ display latency
+ integrated low-latency gyro/motion sensor
+ field of view (massive difference)
+ community support (this one is an assumption, but a well reasoned one I believe)
+ price
As I said above, they are very different devices, despite the form factor. The HMZ is almost unusable for VR (due to latency/FoV), and the Rift is almost unusable for movies (due to low res, and FoV again).
Can you explain more why you say the HMZ is almost unusable for VR? Latency?
I have the the HMZ and i used it with 2 moves (one for 1:1 head tracking) for the game Datura in 3D. I didn't sense any Latency....as far as FOV, it was fine because when ever i turned my head in any direction....it was if i was in that world. In any direction...i heard the little pig as if he were next to my left food, moved my head down and there he was....it was a surreal experience. Closest to the holodeck for me.
phosphor112
Banned
Latency. It's around 50 ms. Which is about double what my TV has for game mode. Also, it's very bulky.
I think the interceptor drivers will work pretty well, but in terms of official support Notch more or less confirmed it for Minecraft.
Latency and FoV. But the latency (50 ms) alone kills it.
Palmer teased ">1080p per eye" for a (far?) future device. The good thing is that everyone is building small high-res displays. But when that happens I'll just upgrade from the Rift.
I remember lots of similar comments when the Segway was teased. Won't fall for that kind of hype again. And they will have a hard time selling the thing to the public because you have to experience it 1st hand to believe in it. I even have one of those VFX helmets somewhere. The problem like back then (when basically only Descent was supported) is software. Carmack said that the Rift sucked despite low latency until he modified Doom 3. Publishers won't give away money so their devs can add features for 10k players.
This is carmack though. Listen to some of his E3 interviews - there is a good giant bomb one I think. He picks apart everything that was wrong with VR and this project basically aims to fix them. He is obsessed with reducing latency to the absolute minimum so motion is tracked rapidly - that's essential for avoiding motion sickness when your movements don't immediate reflect on the screen. He knows FoV is more important than resolution. He knows you need full motion tracking including yaw and not just pivoting around a central point.
This honestly feels like a proper VR reboot. The kickstarter is good to get units in developers hands. We'll see some great patches for games, and the team will get great feedback on how to tweak the consumer version (which I'm sure they are already planning).
I would rebuy a gaming PC for the consumer version if it's anywhere near as good as the descriptions. I damn nearly backed thisnfornandev unit just reading notch's tweet. Fingers crossed that Sony or MS build support for this kind of thing into their next consoles and games. And hopefully Sony will take some good feedback from this. HMZ-t2 with 1080p per eye, lighter and with motion tracking would be fantastic. Still low FoV as Sony want it good for movies, but that would be fine. Low latency game mode to take advantage of OLED speed, and maybe a similar approach to cheaper/lighter optics with correction I the breakout box.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
This shit looks awesome. A lot of support from big names too.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Cockpit view with this in a game like Ace Combat... fuuuuu
added with a rumble chair, bullet vest and flight stick I would never be off the game.
I have a 100" projector, a Sony HMZ-T1, a 40" LCD screen that I use as a PC monitor - sitting 3 feet away from (and subsequently giving me a 40-45 degree FOV)...
and an imagination that allows me to realize how big a jump it would be to move from fixed motion viewing, head mounted or not...
to large/full field of vision, head tracking VR.
The difference... is the differene between complete visual digital immersion into the landscape been presented before you... and looking at a TV set with a picture of that landscape.
The difference is the difference between a thumbnail youtube video that takes 5% of your screen size, and the full screen that takes 100% of your screen size.
----------------------------
Anyway, looking forward to getting this and playing around with it... might even pay the extra 35 to get access to the developer forums. Going to do some testing with this, the leap motion, kinect, and some sort of gesture to keystroke/macro program and see how it feels to be completely immersed in the game.
Might have to include some voice control system and maybe the Move nunchuck to round out the system - but my preliminary idea is to get it so that the kinect can track my leg movement - with walking, jogging and running on the spot been used to control the movement rate of my character.
The goal is to create the ultimate fitness entertainment system - moving around Skyrim means I'll need to walk, jog and run around it.
It's really a developer's thing for now. Kinda like how Google is going to release a developer's kit for their glasses next year, with expectation that they'll release the consumer version in another years time.
If you're a consumer buying into it, then you've just paid $300+ for the privilege of beta testing VR.
That's kinda what I want... but I also have some aspiration to start working with it in a developer sense if at all possible.
Sidewinder
Member
Same here, I sincerely hope for Sonys sake that they will bring something like that (HMZ-T3) to the PS4 with OLEDs and at least 720p resolution. Because this is the stuff that would make the Kinect 2.0 and WiiU look like silly little toys. This is the next step in videogaming, wake up Sony, or PS4 could be your last console.
Edit: I'll tweet Yoshida
Sigh at the HD/1080p comments. It's like a buzzword that gets those around meaninglessly. With the FoV that large, 1080p means nothing. I don't even know the aspect ratio of it. Someone should work out what resolution would be needed to give the equivalent of 720/1080p in the centre of the eyes (lower at the edges isn't so important)
For this version, FoV and tracking is the most important thing. Increasing resolution can come later. No it won't be a bloody retina display but I bet it's still amazing. Some people can still enjoy games on the dsiXL - the horror!
For this version, FoV and tracking is the most important thing. Increasing resolution can come later. No it won't be a bloody retina display but I bet it's still amazing. Some people can still enjoy games on the dsiXL - the horror!
Cmon mrklaw. You should know better than this.
But if you don't - this is not a question that can be answered, because you haven't given us the distance from which that screen is viewed.
But in answer to the question - What resolution would you need for a full field of vision retina display? - the answer is approximately 8000x4000 pixels. Roughly 4000x4000 per eyeball, with a degree of overlapping.
Also, you'd still need a high degree of resolution in the corners of the screen for total immersion; because our eyes can track independently of the head. If our eyes were locked in place, then there'd be some merit to the idea that you can have lower resolution at the extremeties.
But really... the current stated resolution is going to impact on our ability to do things like create 3D UI systems from it (which is uncharted territory - because there simply hasn't been anything around to let us take advantage of that 3rd usable dimension properly) - it's mainly going to be a gaming thing, for developers to test head tracking and large field of vision, seeing how they can adapt their game to it, and how that immersion impacts positively and negatively on their designs.
Sidewinder
Member
Of course, that's why I'm in this thread and that's also why I'll be waiting for a higher res version of those very promising glasses.
It's a bit too early to get wound up over a consumer version, as promising as this is.
I think we're still 18 months out from either from a high res consumer version of these (remember, given the way they play with the Aspect ratio and the FOV, it won't necessarily respect the 1080p convention)... or some other company's take on this stuff.
My hope is the success from this will kickstart (forgive the pun) the high-tech industry's willingness to delve back into VR technology and give it a really good go this time. All the antecedent pieces of technology have finally come together - it's time for people to figure out how to get them altogether in a seamless, immersive package that's ready not just for consumers - but for us to rethink the user/computer paradigm.
It was more a rhetorical question as like you say, we don't have the infos. But the oculus team could tell us
. And I ddint say retina for the entire field of view, I think just for the centre would be enough.I'm also curious how much resolution drops off at the edges, and how that affects both your experience and games developer approaches.
You don't just move your head,you also move your eyes, so you need enough resolution off-centre not to look too shabby. Thinking about rendering, could you switch to lower level of detail models in either poly count or texturing for objects near the edges as the screens are lower resolution and your perception will be more movement and lit based rather than detail.
Your comments about 3D interfaces made me also want retina tracking in future models too.
Throwaway123456789
Member
Have you tried it?
To be fair, very few people have direct experience with full head tracking HMDs - it seems most of the disjoint occurs because of side to side head tracking motion.
But again, this isn't a consumer product - it's going to be a developer beta unit that gives people a strong idea about what to expect when you get full field of vision, full head tracking immersion.
I don't think anyone is buying this with the view to turn it into their primary gaming setup - but as a bit of kit that'll let them be the first to glimpse at the possibilities of the future... it's very promising indeed.
Throwaway123456789
Member
The latency problems are an entirely different beast when you're talking about head tracking. Carmack isn't talking about latency for button presses or stuff like that, he's talking about not having your view lag behind your head movement.
If the Rift is going to trick your brain into thinking you're standing and looking around in a game, you need to get under a certain threshold. The HMZ is way, way too slow.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Me too. VR > waggle sticks and 3D screens.
And almost 2400 preordered models.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Kickstarter has been pretty amazing for the game industry (Republiq, Ouya, Oculus, etc.). One unique/groundbreaking project after another.
Almost 2500 prototype units ordered. From the start of production, how long would it take this startup company to manufacture over 2500 units of this thing? Since the project hit the goal already, my card would be charged immediately, right? If so, my worry is that it would be an eternity waiting for them to produce that many units (I'm still waiting for a Raspberry Pi -_-)
This sounds amazing though; I'm definitely tempted.
This sounds amazing though; I'm definitely tempted.
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