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Officer Chun-Li costume spotted in latest SFV beta, also some other lame costumes
- Thread starter Warxard
- Start date
lucebuce12
Member
Never take anyone with a Kappa avatar seriously.
DOA is the way it is because of its history and lot of that comes from the Volleyball games.
Laura won't hurt SFV perception at all.
God I forgot how awful Laura's English VA is. Doesn't seem to fit as all.
...I have a sudden urge to play volleyball, who's with me
Vlaphor
Member
While I'm not quite seeing the jiggle I expected, hot damn does Chun Li look amazing in that alt.
I said it's history. The volleyball games is why the series is look down on tho. DOA 3 did pretty well no?
but regardless my point was that SF isn't close to be on that level yet so the worry about it is silly.
Street Fighter is Street Fighter
lucebuce12
Member
You know, I can't help but agree with you on this one.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
My point is that DOA has historically made it the fact it's a sexual game the main focal point, even in its advertising, openly, on tv. DOAX didn't create this perception of DOA, it merely furthered it. It wasn't even a perception, it was the main selling point of DOA3 as seen in its marketing. The developers openly told you what that game was about when they tried to get you to buy it.
Yea, I switched out that word for "inadvertently".
That would be more fitting, I think.
SneakersSO
Member
Sure, entertainment is often a reflection of the culture at large. There is an obvious attraction to many people by the things that are depicted in this game, or similar depictions in other pieces of work. Here's the thing though - i'm not going to sit here & label anything in this game anything as flagrant as being 'casually sexist'. Are you gonna sit here & tell me that all, or even the majority, of women are only capable of enjoying a piece of entertainment if it has depictions that they closely resemble? Thats ludicrous.
Are there some women (& men)who won't or refuse to play a game that features scantily clad characters? ABSOLUTELY! But that doesn't mean the creator suddenly HAS to change their approach. They can, its their prerogative to do so, but they don't have to.
Like you said earlier, creative works are usually a reflection of the world around them. These works are all already inspired by the current events the person who created them lived through. Are they important? Yes. Did these creators make these works independent of their reality & their observances of it? Absolutely not. And just because some work CAN transcend the majority of most fictional work and reinforce change & observances that already occurring in the culture around them when they were created, doesn't mean all work SHOULD.
Capcom is making a fighting game to sell for profit, with zero aspirations for anything anywhere near as noble.
I mean, the same thing could be said about pigeon-holed depictions of the ideal male form as well, something SFV constantly reinforces with no mention from anyone. This game offers zero realistic depiction of anyone, regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. Heck, they are all 3D rendered anime characters; cartoons if you will. Even if we stick to the conversation of JUST its depiction of women, SFV actually excels in showing a variety of female body types, and even goes one step further by showing them in positive lights, particularly those depiction which are typically considered 'non-idolized'.
Who am I talking about, exactly? Laura & R. Mika. R. Mika is very provocative, but she also has the build of a heavy-body builder, a form that is not typically considered to be overly attractive in western media. Here, they take the idea of the female body builder, keep the features that exemplify that body type, and reinforce its femininity & sexuality. In that sense, it actually potentially opens the eyes of the audience for a body type being sexual that they usually have zero exposure to or interest in.
Then, theres Laura. One thing zero people make mention of when it comes to Laura is that she is a 'curvy' woman. Look at her regular outfits & default outfits. We don't see a lot of muscular tone. Her mid-section & hips are even bigger than the majority of the female cast by a noticeable margin. However, she still retains her sexuality & femininity, even though she doesn't approach the status of fighting-super-model that Chun-Li & Cammy do.
Cammy is actually a fantastic example in retrospect of a character design that challenged the ideal feminine form. Sure, not in 2016, but in 1993 when she was first launched, Cammy came out in a western world where the culture was JUST BEGINNING to switch from focusing on large breasts & cleavage, to attractive butts. Its easy to forget, but the idea of 'sexy butts' is something that is only 20 some-odd-years old in the western world. Look back on ads & magazines, and it was all about breasts & cleavage. Cammy not only didn't have a large chest, but her character showcased something that wasn't held to the same value that it is today.
Some devs do listen to certain feedback, others don't. Doesn't mean they all should, have to, or will. Its not a question of 'will it hurt the title if they do?', from the creators standpoint, its more 'do I care about this at all?'. Capcom clearly doesn't. And good for them that they don't. Is there a dev in this genre that is listening to these same complains? YES! NRS is. I'd be more sympathetic to what you're saying if NRS wasn't doing what they're doing, but they are listening to the voices that are throwing these complaints out there, so there is a venue for those people.
Okay, its a problem for SOME. Some people don't like this, not all. Tons others do, and the ones who do do-so regardless of gender. Suffice it to say, tons of women enjoy watching the female form as much as men, for a variety of reasons. Are you saying that people are looking at these depictions of cartoons and holding them as a standard against real life?
'Like what you like' is absolutely valid, as long as it isn't harming anyone. Again, are you saying that millions of people are harmed by the depiction of these characters in such a way? They can be perturbed by it; there are millions/billions of people who do not like things that are enjoyed by millions/billions of people. But are these outfits really causing any harm to ANYBODY?
DR2K
Banned
It's just some sort of mental gymnastics to justify the objectification of women in one game and ignore it in another because it'll make him feel more comfortable about playing said game.
Pretty sure that Capcom knows exactly what they're doing.
lucebuce12
Member
I... think you're reading a little too much into his post.
You might be thinking of some other poster.
I can't recall saying anything about objectification in either of these games, lol
Lmao
Would you say he is inadvertently doing so?
lucebuce12
Member
I gotta ask, do you generally make a lot of puns or are you just role playing as your avatar?
Now that is a good question.
SolidSnakex
Member
I'm so tired of this DoA comparison. DoA is what is what it is now because in large part the mechanics and balance never really were prioritized in a big way before DoA5. I remember reading that Itagaki in particularly didn't want the team paying attention to the tournament scene, which left the games in a weird spot mechanically and balance-wise. So it's a series that became known for bouncy boobs and for having solid visuals. At least up until DoA4 when the doll-like appearance didn't carry over well (which is why DoA5 gave them an overhaul). The series is up against a perception that's been built up over 15+ years. Street Fighter doesn't have that issue. It's not going to be viewed as some bullshit like Titty Fighter V. It's going to be the premiere game of the fighting game scene for years to come.
lucebuce12
Member
Always with this comedy argument. The character was created to appeal to women and you think the scene isn't fanservice? His boy band build and animations, along with how you can pose him and get close ups of his ass are a dead giveaway. The section where he's naked isn't even really played for laughs except for a quip snakes makes at the end.
Both Raiden and Vamp are fanservice characters and I wish people would just admit it already.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Again.
DOA helped its reception by catering directly to that demographic, which is exactly what SFV is doing now.
Context means everything.
Raiden is a pretty boy, but the context and situation he's in is absolutely absurd.
Remember that while this is going on "Scissors 61!" is happening. It's comedy and meant to be played off as surreal. To distill it as nothing more than fan service is ignoring all context and nuance.
It's nice to know you don't even play DOA
lucebuce12
Member
Bro, have ya played Metal Gear Rising?
I think even I don't know what I'm talking about.
oh fuck.
Then where the fuck did every game in the series in my house right now come from?
Must just have the cases I guess?
Hopefully we'll be too busy playing it by then to have this delightful conversation again
Yes, the situation Raiden finds himself in is humorous, but it so clearly exists to show off his body that i'm baffled you and others still try to brush it off as comedy and not blatant fanservice.
DR2K
Banned
I'm not reading too much into it. It's funny how DOA is brought into the subject when other fighters get more gratuitous with their pandering. They're not different, they're the same. Life is good. Hometown is amazing.
YianGaruga
Banned
I always saw raiden as fanservice as well.
If it was a woman in the same situation, would it count as fanservice?
You can make situations silly and humorous while still being sexy
If it was a woman in the same situation, would it count as fanservice?
You can make situations silly and humorous while still being sexy
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
There's that bit floating around from the Special Edition DVD where Kojima is saying he made him to appeal to girls. I can see where the fanservice argument is coming from given that, his appearance, and some of the scenes. Plus, the power fantasy argument really doesn't fly for Raiden in MGS2. The series ended at MGS2 so there's nothing more to say about this.
Personally, I think the "appeal to girls" thing is more part of MGS2's whole thing about making Raiden the Anti-Snake rather than actual intent to appeal to girls but who knows.
I think people's definitions of what goes for fanservice is very small or large depending on circumstances.
Every single "this is what Man Service looks like" is often brushed off a male power fantasy or comedy.
fanservice is broad as fuck. everything is technically fanservice in a sense...as someone is being served generally no? Even with today's definition (sexy stuffz). Someone out there is being served their specific tastes. Juri for example...bring her own...uh...crowd of folks.
Every single "this is what Man Service looks like" is often brushed off a male power fantasy or comedy.
fanservice is broad as fuck. everything is technically fanservice in a sense...as someone is being served generally no? Even with today's definition (sexy stuffz). Someone out there is being served their specific tastes. Juri for example...bring her own...uh...crowd of folks.
Trickster
Member
So what you're saying is that if more naked women found themselves in absurd "comical" situation, that would fine because of the context?
I never found that part funny however.
In fact, that part was the most scared I've been playing a video game.
The colonel telling me to turn off my console, telling me I've played to much, his face turning into a skeleton, talking nonsense about aliens and crazy shit.
I nearly shat myself.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
YianGaruga
Banned
... They aren't gay
pretty close