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Official 2005 NBA Playoffs thread! Now with 100% less Kobe!

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Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Cloudy said:
- He bailed on the Heat when they were down after they still paid him while he was ill

And to show you the error of your ways...the heat let him go! because they didn't think he would recover. And the parted ways in good faith...why do you think they'd bring him back if he "bailed" on them?
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Cloudy said:
They "let him go" cos they weren't going to sign him for the crazy money NJ put up :lol

uhhh... he was still under contract and they could have kept him... he cleared up cap space for them... which they used to get Shaq... win-win...
 

Cloudy

Banned
Umm...Zo was a Free Agent when the Nets stupidly signed him in '03.

Oh and the Heat didn't clear any cap space to sign Shaq. They just traded 3 guys who were making the same combined....
 

Bat

Member
Zo totally screwed over the Heat (and two other teams as well), no doubt about it. This was a guy who they paid $40 million over two years to do basically nothing and he turned his back on them to get the extra couple of million for New Jersey (as well as what he must of thought was a legit title shot). New Jersey then had to trade him because he announced he couldn't play anymore....followed by his return to the Heat (after screwing the Raptors in the process). I have no sympathy for the guy at all, despite his kidney illness. I'm really sick of his spiel; either retire or shut up and play for the team you signed with.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Cloudy said:
- He bailed on the Heat when they were down after they still paid him while he was ill

Seemed liked a nice parting of ways at the time, Riley said he had wanted to keep Mourning but that they would not be able to match NJ's offer, and that he had no ill feelings about Mourning taking it. Plus you could argue that despite his limited playing time, the Nets got their money's worth since it was his signing that prompted Kidd to stay with NJ at the time.


Cloudy said:
- Took the Nets money (no one else was gonna sign him for that much) and bailed on them when they were down as well

How can you say he bailed on the Nets when they traded him? Is there more to the story?

Cloudy said:
- Refused to play for the Raps after he was traded and had to be bought out

Toronto said that his his physical condition was not satisfactory to them and that's why they bought him out. I figured it saved Toronto something by buying his contract out rather than cutting him.
 

Bowser

Member
g_walker_ec.jpg


...

wtf :lol
 
Blackace said:
uhhh... he was still under contract and they could have kept him... he cleared up cap space for them... which they used to get Shaq... win-win...


Um, first off don't say "they used the cap space to get Shaq" as if they had some fortuitous vision 2 years in advance that LA would cut him loose. That was happenstance and hindsight doesn't somehow make it a noble deed for Zo to "clear up cap space for them" by bailing. Second, the fact is that Miami had already done everything for Zo..built the franchise around him, added some All-Stars to the roster so they could get to the ECF, helped him in diagnosing and treating his condition, and paid him full dollar the entire time he was out and the team floundered. Thats a LOT for a franchise to do for just one player. It doesn't qualify as "letting him go" for not resigning him at top dollar when you've already been taking a loss on him for 2+ years. This was a case where a smidge of loyalty and respect was in order from Zo.

Look at what David Robinson did in his final contract. He was up for renewal in 01, and the Spurs knew that they would have to resign Duncan and a number of other FA's in the coming years to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Layden and the Knicks would have paid Robinson ~13/14 mil, perhaps more knowing that franchise, and the Spurs were talking ~8, mostly because his back was ailing and that they couldn't afford to overpay him at the risk of losing Duncan. Robinson did the classy thing and accepted a 2 year deal at 10 mil apiece to continue playing with the franchise that had done so much for him and for a city that embraced him and his family. He could have chased the money, went out east where he would have still been likely the best center in the conference, and got to play with a dynamic backcourt of Houston and Spree in an effort to seal a title for the largest market in the nation. In the event that actually occured, he would be viewed as a god among NY'ers and the media, and he would still net an extra ~6/8 mil in salary to ease his mind whether he won or not. But the man didn't chase the money and notoriety in an effort to go win elsewhere..he accepted less to remain with a franchise that had bent over backwards to give him every shot to win in the past. THATS CLASS, and thats what you didn't see from Zo with Miami 2 years ago.

Listen ace, I respect you for defending Zo because he's one of your favorite players, and I too love his intensity and ferocity on the court. But lets just say he's one of your favorite players and leave it at that. There's really no way to morally defend the moves he's made sans the guise of "I have to do whats right for me and my family", which essentially always boils down to the more selfish, high dollar moves. I might have a smidge more respect for him if he was turning down money in order to have a shot at winning, but so far Zo has been all about having his cake and eating it to, only at every one else's expense. Thats bullshit and its indefensible.

I've never once slighted him for his illness and consequently I'm not going to allow him to use it as a pass for being a disloyal, frontrunning, overpaid asshole. It makes me even more sick that people use it as a prop to cut him slack or that its used to paint him as some kind of heroic figure.
 

Cloudy

Banned
levious said:
Seemed liked a nice parting of ways at the time, Riley said he had wanted to keep Mourning but that they would not be able to match NJ's offer, and that he had no ill feelings about Mourning taking it.

The GREEDY guy basically told the franchise that still paid his ass while he couldn't play to go screw themselves cos NJ offered more and didn't include any restrictions based on his ailment (Dallas was gonna do that). Instead of helping Miami rebuild, he bolted...

Plus you could argue that despite his limited playing time, the Nets got their money's worth since it was his signing that prompted Kidd to stay with NJ at the time.

Worst rationalization EVAR!! :lol

How can you say he bailed on the Nets when they traded him? Is there more to the story?

He demanded to be traded. What the hell were they supposed to do? Dude shut it down and refused to play cos he wanted to gravy train for a ring somewhere.

Toronto said that his his physical condition was not satisfactory to them and that's why they bought him out. I figured it saved Toronto something by buying his contract out rather than cutting him.

Bullshit, he REFUSED to play for them and they knew this before the trade with New Jersey but they had their own headache to get rid of and they wanted to clear cap room in the process :lol
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Cloudy said:
Worst rationalization EVAR!! :lol


Bullshit, he REFUSED to play for them and they knew this before the trade with New Jersey but they had their own headache to get rid of and they wanted to clear cap room in the process :lol

I don't see why it's such a bad rationalization... I mean, the Kidd thing was the whole reason he was getting offered so much money by teams. He was one of the players Kidd wanted to play with, why don't you give Kidd shit for manipulating teams like that.

As far as the Toronto thing, still think it's hard to blame him when Toronto knew he wouldn't play and only did it for cap manuverability. And with his limited shelf life, I hardly blame him for not wanting to rebuild somewhere.

This really seems like an issue where you'd normally side with the player... you sure one of his current teammates isn't clouding your vision?
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
levious said:
This really seems like an issue where you'd normally side with the player... you sure one of his current teammates isn't clouding your vision?
Heh, I spotted that ages ago but decided not to point it out 'cuz I'm such a nice guy. :p

shaq_nash_245x325.jpg


wtf :lol
 

Dsal

it's going to come out of you and it's going to taste so good
g_walker_ec.jpg


HRNNNGGGGGHHH
ME TAKE DUMP ON FLEET CENTER FLOOR
 

Cloudy

Banned
This really seems like an issue where you'd normally side with the player... you sure one of his current teammates isn't clouding your vision?

Where did I ever side with a player who screws a team after they've done nothing but good for him? And if I hated all Heat players cos of Shaq, why do I like Wade? o_O
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Cloudy said:
Where did I ever side with a player who screws a team after they've done nothing but good for him? And if I hated all Heat players cos of Shaq, why do I like Wade? o_O

Carlos Boozer

I disagreed with you on that one, and figured you'd be on Alonzo's side with this too.
 

Cloudy

Banned
levious said:
Carlos Boozer

I disagreed with you on that one, and figured you'd be on Alonzo's side with this too.

The Cavs never paid him to do sit on his ass for a couple of seasons and they only let him out of his deal to screw him over with a ripoff contract. Also, they couldn't have had any agreement with him before the FA period under league rules so I side with Booze on that. He was NOT under contract with the Cavs so he was free to sign with the Jazz.

Try again :)
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Cloudy said:
Try again :)

I wasn't going on the Boozer example alone, but mainly when you say that you tend to side with the player in disputes. No big deal though. But don't be so self-concious about your Shaq hate, you didn't even respond to the other stuff I mentioned which I thought were decent observations. But we don't really need to debate this near non-issue, plus Darien is old and cranky. ;)
 

Cloudy

Banned
Look, I REALLY dislike Shaq and I don't try to hide :lol IMO players don't usually owe teams anything but in Alonzo's case, I think the Heat and Nets deserved better than that...
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Can everyone stop talking about Zo,he's sucks now..case closed.He's not worth talking about for pages,this is a playoff thread and yes he is in them,but godddddd who cares about his greedy ass anymore or Carlos Loosers.

Lets talk about the games and the Konex curse,its more fun.
 

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
Denver getting raped.
 

Bat

Member
The "Nets got their value because they resigned Kidd!" argument makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, that's totally besides the point of if Alonzo screwed over the Nets (which he did). Secondly, if the Nets could go back, they would have never signed Kidd to that max contract in the first place. Guaranteed.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
There's no real ill will towards Zo down here AFAIK. Most people understood the increased urgency once his kidneys became a problem. It's a late-career thing. I'm sure if he was still healthy, he'd have stayed on with Miami. He had everything going for him down here, and he was the anchor of the team. It's nice to see him coming back and peaking at the right time. He's playing like a man on a mission.

Besides, when he went to the Nets, it looks like a good decision. They needed a big. But he wasn't able to produce due to the kidneys. It's not like he Cartered it out there. :lol PEACE.
 

kevm3

Member
Did these faggots seriously just cut off the Spurs game and switch it to the Bulls? Did they seriously switch the fucking game so we could listen to David Stern yapping? WTF is wrong with these guys?
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Ned Flanders said:
U
Listen ace, I respect you for defending Zo because he's one of your favorite players, and I too love his intensity and ferocity on the court. But lets just say he's one of your favorite players and leave it at that. There's really no way to morally defend the moves he's made sans the guise of "I have to do whats right for me and my family", which essentially always boils down to the more selfish, high dollar moves. I might have a smidge more respect for him if he was turning down money in order to have a shot at winning, but so far Zo has been all about having his cake and eating it to, only at every one else's expense. Thats bullshit and its indefensible.

I've never once slighted him for his illness and consequently I'm not going to allow him to use it as a pass for being a disloyal, frontrunning, overpaid asshole. It makes me even more sick that people use it as a prop to cut him slack or that its used to paint him as some kind of heroic figure.



Calling some one disloyal after they have spent 7 years with one franchise is a little short sighted in my opinion. Comparing his case to Robinson is also unfair. He wants to win a title there is no doubt about that. When he left the Heat they were not close to that goal and the Nets seemed like they were plus they offered him big money. Riley just retired as the coach so it seemed like the Heat would be in a long re-tooling phase... that is how I see it at least... if you are tired of hearing the Media talking about Zo coming back from his illness just leave it at that...
 

etiolate

Banned
Zo took the money and ran. He's getting paid by NJ and got a 10-11 million buyout from Toronto. He's not a scourge of society, but he sure isn't a saint. The PR about him is unrealistic though. Yeah, he donated his salary but look at the big picture. He farted around till he could ride a graivy train to the playoffs.


And I hate team centric message boards. I say Adleman is a bad playoff coach and everyone goes into shock and amazement.
 
g_walker_ec.jpg


Walker needs to get some fuzz back on his dome. He looks like a 50 year-old George Foreman after his 4th comeback.

Anyway, Denver just got SLAUGHTERED. Denver still has homecourt advantage but they just gave the Spurs all kinds of momentum.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
JAAAAASONNNN WILLLIAMSSSSSS!'

white chocolate! :D

102204-Tipoff-Lunch-JM117.jpg


Jason Williams, shortly before healing a cancer-stricken child with the laying on of hands, yesterday
 

kgHavok23

Member
bishoptl said:
JAAAAASONNNN WILLLIAMSSSSSS!'

white chocolate! :D

102204-Tipoff-Lunch-JM117.jpg


Jason Williams, shortly before healing a cancer-stricken child with the laying on of hands, yesterday

that is the worst thing I have ever seen. No I'm serious. sigh....

BULLS :D
 

AirBrian

Member
The invisible man
Marty Burns, SI.com

As the Bulls and Wizards get set for Game 2 of their first-round playoff series Wednesday night in Chicago, several questions come to mind:

Can Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison bounce back from dismal shooting performances in Game 1?

Will Kwame Brown's bruised right knee allow him to play -- and perhaps help the Wizards' big men take advantage of Chicago's thin frontcourt?

Is Andres Nocioni the second coming of Ron Artest? And with his new haircut and No. 5 jersey, doesn't he bear an eerie resemblance to former Bulls star (and current GM) John Paxson?

But there is one other question that has nothing to do with Xs and Os in this entertaining first-round playoff series, but which many NBA fans might be asking themselves.

Where's Michael Jordan?

His Airness was nowhere to be seen at Sunday's Game 1, the first playoff game for the Bulls since The Shot in the '98 Finals. He apparently won't be at Wednesday night's Game 2, either. According to Washington Post columnist Michael Wilbon, Jordan told him recently he didn't plan to attend any of the games in this series.

Do the Wizards expect to see their former GM in person before the series is done? "Not over on this side," guard Larry Hughes said with a smile before Game 1. "Maybe over on their side."

"If he is coming, we don't know anything about it," a Bulls spokesman said Tuesday.

Perhaps Jordan is just teasing everybody, and he'll make a surprise appearance Wednesday night. The Bulls spokesman did admit a suite for Game 2 has been reserved for his family. Also, the NBA has invited several former legends with Bulls ties to be recognized during the game, including Scottie Pippen, Artis Gilmore and Robert Parish.

But so far Jordan has been conspicuously absent, even from the Bulls' side. Before the series Chicago coach Scott Skiles was asked if Jordan might be invited to speak to the team before the playoffs. "I suppose that's a good question," Skiles said. "I don't know. Would there be a conflict of interest there because he was in Washington? I really haven't given that a whole lot of thought."

Isn't it strange? How can Jordan, whose statue outside the United Center still draws flocks of fans before games, not at least make a token appearance during this Windy City hoops moment? It's not like he's working for another team or living halfway across the country. He still can be seen around Chicago, riding his motorcycle or slipping into high school gyms to watch his son Jeff, a sophomore star at Loyola Academy.

Jordan, in fact, has been a part of the Bulls scene the past two years. He has even attended a few games in Chicago this season, sitting in a skybox and drawing huge ovations when shown on the overhead screen. He remains close to Paxson, his former backcourt mate during the early title years, and he watched a practice during training camp.

But Jordan apparently has decided this isn't the right time yet to be poking around his old haunts. Perhaps he doesn't want to be a distraction or take the spotlight away from the current Bulls. Perhaps he knew that 81-year-old Wizards owner Abe Pollin, the man who fired him after the '03 season was going to be in attendance at the United Center and didn't want to have to make small talk.

Jordan, in his own way, has contributed to the success of both teams. He befriended Bulls rookie Ben Gordon last summer, inviting him to a Cubs game and to his home for dinner. He has also worked out with several young Chicago players over the past few summers.

Meanwhile, Jordan acquired six of the core players on the Wizards' playoff roster-- including starters Hughes, Brendan Haywood and Jared Jeffries. While his failures as GM in Washington have been well-documented, he did manage to get rid of several bad contracts (including Juwan Howard's "untradeable" deal). The cap room created by those moves ultimately helped current GM Ernie Grunfeld go out last summer and snag Arenas on the free-agent market. Even Jordan's trade of Richard Hamilton to the Pistons wasn't a total loss, since Grunfeld was able to redirect Jerry Stackhouse to the Mavs last summer for Jamison.

Hughes, who has blossomed into an All-Star talent in D.C., says Jordan's influence was felt in the Wizards locker room as well. While Brown didn't respond well to Jordan's brand of tough love, several Washington players say they benefited from being his teammate. "I learned a lot from him, just by watching him every day," Hughes said. "Just how to prepare. How to be ready to play each and every night."

Maybe there's nothing to Jordan's absence so far from this Wizards-Bulls series. Maybe he's just been busy golfing or promoting his professional motocross racing team. Maybe he's been working on his quest to buy his own NBA team, being a "value shopper" in the words of David Stern, and doing some due diligence. (Think MJ might find Las Vegas an intriguing expansion site?)

But don't be surprised if His Airness chooses not to be part of the fanfare and remains invisible for this series at least. It might seem strange, but given how long it's taken for the Bulls to get out from under his shadow, it also seems reasonable. Of course, with his No. 23 in the rafters -- alongside those six NBA championship banners -- Bulls fans never have to look far to be reminded of his presence.
Jordan friends with Gordon!
 

Eminem

goddamit, Griese!
Oh hell yes. Kirk is the fuckin' man. What a performance.


I still don't understand it though...we came back from a 13 point defecit with this line up on the floor: Jannero Pargo, Adrian Griffin, Eric Piatkowski, Andres Nocioni, Antonio Davis.
How the fuck. I just can't understand it. But I love it. Everyday someone else is stepping up =D
 
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