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Official 2011 MLB Thread v.2: The Mets are terrible.

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T

The Frankman

Banned
darkside31337 said:
Yes. Yes he would.

Molina physically bumped the umpire 3 different times and spit in his face.

Regardless of whatever caused Molina to snap, he went off the rails.

Your position is beyond ridiculous. The umpire made a bad call, it happens. What Molina did is insane and has no business being in sports. I think a 10 game suspension should be the bare minimum.

NBA analogy is awful. If a player did this in the NBA they are looking at least a $100,000 fine and a lengthy suspension. Selig isn't nearly even in the same realm as Stern when it comes to absolutely no criticizing (or bumping and spitting at) the officials
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Then a MLB PR nightmare would've happened immediately after. I don't know if you saw the thread here last year, but there isn't a poster here who would've agreed with you at that moment if Galarraga got ejected. That call singlehandedly brought YoTU to light here... The best thing about that whole situation is that somehow Galarraga and knuckleheaded Miguel Cabrera kept cool and Jim Joyce have a tearful apology admitting he was wrong.

Again, I don't condone bumping an ump (spitting was by no means intentional obviously). I just think that account should be taken about Molina's character and the fact that the call was SO bad. Hopefully someone in the MLB office decides to do the right thing. You can't dump this on the players.

Also you're missing the point about the NBA analogy. They have a Gestapo system where no matter how incompetent/bias the refs are you can't say ANYTHING about them. Refs have free reign to dick over teams to their liking (ask Dallas/San Antonio fans about Joey Crawford). If baseball got to be that bad the game would die for certain.
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
The Frankman said:
At what point does MLB take into account YoTU in a situation like this? The call is so laughably bad Molina snaps, which he obviously wouldn't if the pitch is a legit strike. So you penalize Molina for losing it due to a horrible ump call and turn a blind eye to the ump? That's not right.
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Probably around the time MLB decides to embrace instant replay for more than HR calls. Doesn't MLB discipline umpires behind closed doors (i.e. any disciplinary action is kept secret)? For a sport so steeped in "tradition," don't expect any changes in umpiring any time soon.

fwiw, Molina was certainly in the wrong and should've known better than to get ejected in a tie ballgame, in extras, with his team playing with a short bench
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
Little Green Yoda said:
Probably around the time MLB decides to embrace instant replay for more than HR calls. Doesn't MLB discipline umpires behind closed doors (i.e. any disciplinary action is kept secret)? For a sport so steeped in "tradition," don't expect any changes in umpiring any time soon.

fwiw, Molina was certainly in the wrong and should've known better than to get ejected in a tie ballgame, in extras, with his team playing with a short bench
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The way MLB is going, never. Great... regarding the "spoiler", it's situation where you just snap because the call is so bad, which is why I wrote this whole spiel in the first place.

for the record, another famous incident is Paul LoDuca vs. Marvin Hudson, another noted horrible ump.

The Aftermath

LO DUCA FACE
loduca2.png
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
On a side note that pitch to Molina did not feel like it was a foot inside. Not trying to defend Drake as he got it wrong (unless the calibration is insanely off) but it really didn't seem that totally egregious at first glance. Which made me recall all the hub bub regarding PITCHf/x last season in the playoffs, where it was literally off by a whopping 6 inches for one of the Rangers games, and the weird inconsistencies in general in certain parks including Miller.

Pf/x calibration in Miller Park has been kinda wonky and getting worse the past few years http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/fine-tuning-pitchf-x-location-data/. There's a interesting ancedote in there involving Miller Park and Rob Drake and his tendencies involving pitches inside to RHB.

Obviously the pitch was well inside but it kinda irks me that Pf/x is accepted as 100% accurate when it hasn't been close to that in certain stadiums like Arlington and Miller.

I think umpires should generally implement PITCH f/x into their assessments which they currently don't, but there is a point to be made that it is really not accurate enough in every stadium to actually have guys jobs be on the line due to it especially when the system has gotten worse over time instead of better.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
darkside31337 said:
On a side note that pitch to Molina did not feel like it was a foot inside. Not trying to defend Drake as he got it wrong (unless the calibration is insanely off) but it really didn't seem that totally egregious at first glance. Which made me recall all the hub bub regarding PITCHf/x last season in the playoffs, where it was literally off by a whopping 6 inches for one of the Rangers games, and the weird inconsistencies in general in certain parks including Miller.

Pf/x calibration in Miller Park has been kinda wonky and getting worse the past few years http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/fine-tuning-pitchf-x-location-data/. There's a interesting ancedote in there involving Miller Park and Rob Drake and his tendencies involving pitches inside to RHB.

Obviously the pitch was well inside but it kinda irks me that Pf/x is accepted as 100% accurate when it hasn't been close to that in certain stadiums like Arlington and Miller.

I think umpires should generally implement PITCH f/x into their assessments which they currently don't, but there is a point to be made that it is really not accurate enough in every stadium to actually have guys jobs be on the line due to it especially when the system has gotten worse over time instead of better.
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Yeah, I remember the whole QUESTEC thing from years ago where they said they use it to evaluate umps after a game, but I never hear about repercussions. We still see shitty umps working playoff games, I mean where's the payoff?

It's kind of ironic the vids linked in the initial article show the FoxSports version of PitchFX has the pitch as ridiculously inside. I think the other thing I overlooked in Molina himself is a catcher; he knows what has and hasn't been called all all game. I'll be monitoring this situation and hopefully MLB Network/ESPN really focus onto all the elements.
 
S

Sharp

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
It's nice, isn't it. :)
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I know, who could have predicted that this scrappy underdog team could manage to defy everyone's expectations and soar to the top of the standings? Miracle season!
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Sharp said:
I know, who could have predicted that this scrappy underdog team could manage to defy everyone's expectations and soar to the top of the standings? Miracle season!
Click to expand...

Para bailar La Bomba said:
Yeah, in the same way contracting the bubonic plague is "nice".
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Mwahahahaah lol

I'm an eternal pessimist, I was expecting far more dry spots. I never expected us to be the first in the league and 8 games ahead of the Braves.
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
The Phillies with their four overrated starters and the king of overrated, Roy Halladay. They better thank Vance Worley for taking the role of the new ace.
 
S

Sharp

Member
Dmncnby2k9 said:
The Phillies with their four overrated starters and the king of overrated, Roy Halladay. They better thank Vance Worley for taking the role of the new ace.
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WTF how does Halladay have a 2.23 FIP
 
E

Enron

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I never expected us to be the first in the league and 8 games ahead of the Braves.
Click to expand...

Really? 3 of the best pitchers in baseball, a lineup full of guys that can hit, and the favorite to represent the NL in the World Series?

fuk u
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Sharp said:
I know, who could have predicted that this scrappy underdog team could manage to defy everyone's expectations and soar to the top of the standings? Miracle season!
Click to expand...

Go back and read all the predictions in this thread before the season started. No one was picking the Phils to even win their division. nocode said that they were doomed and that they would be terrible this year.
 
T

tyguy20204

Member
The pitch to Molina may have been slightly off the plate but there's no way it was anywhere close to as far off the plate as the PitchFX/Fox Tracker suggests. Honestly, I watch as many Brewers games as I can and the Fox Tracker is typically terrible.
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
yankeehater said:
Go back and read all the predictions in this thread before the season started. No one was picking the Phils to even win their division. nocode said that they were doomed and that they would be terrible this year.
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With those four starters alone I thought the Phils would run away with the division. That staff in the playoffs if they're all on would be very tough to beat.
 
C

clemenx

Banned
Go back and read all the predictions in this thread before the season started. No one was picking the Phils to even win their division. nocode said that they were doomed and that they would be terrible this year.
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Um, what? The majority here as pretty much everywhere was predicting a Sox - Phillies WS from day one. The ones having the Bravos winning the east were mostly Braves fans.

Are you seriously trying to say these Phillies are some kind of underdog?
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
clemenx said:
Um, what? The majority here as pretty much everywhere was predicting a Sox - Phillies WS from day one. The ones having the Bravos winning the east were mostly Braves fans.

Are you seriously trying to say these Phillies are some kind of underdog?
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I am not saying that they are underdogs at all, just that a lot of people here, and in the mainstear media btw, where picking the Braves. It is not a huge shock that they are winning the divison, but having such a big lead and the best record in baseball is very surprising.
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
yankeehater said:
I am not saying that they are underdogs at all, just that a lot of people here, and in the mainstear media btw, where picking the Braves. It is not a huge shock that they are winning the divison, but having such a big lead and the best record in baseball is very surprising.
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I don't think its surprising at all actually.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
yankeehater said:
I am not saying that they are underdogs at all, just that a lot of people here, and in the mainstear media btw, where picking the Braves. It is not a huge shock that they are winning the divison, but having such a big lead and the best record in baseball is very surprising.
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Nobody was picking the Braves over Philly.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
tyguy20204 said:
The pitch to Molina may have been slightly off the plate but there's no way it was anywhere close to as far off the plate as the PitchFX/Fox Tracker suggests. Honestly, I watch as many Brewers games as I can and the Fox Tracker is typically terrible.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was saying earlier. About 10% of Brewers homes games last years were poorly calibrated, to the tune of at least incorrect by 3 inches, in regards to PITCHf/x. In regards to Miller Park every single poorly calibrated result last season was based on the horizontal plane and was skewed towards the 3rd base side.

People drastically underestimate how much poor calibration throws off PITCHf/x (not just in terms of pitch location but obviously movement and velo, which in turn affects what the pitcher is supposedly throwing as well). They're only re-calibrated approximately every 20 games on average, Miller's definitely needs to be on the shorter end of that average because it's not nearly as good as the league average.
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
darkside31337 said:
Exactly what I was saying earlier. About 10% of Brewers homes games last years were poorly calibrated, to the tune of at least incorrect by 3 inches, in regards to PITCHf/x. In regards to Miller Park every single poorly calibrated result last season was based on the horizontal plane and was skewed towards the 3rd base side.

People drastically underestimate how much poor calibration throws off PITCHf/x. They're only re-calibrated approximately every 20 games on average, Miller's definitely needs to be on the shorter end of that average because it's not nearly as good as the league average.
Click to expand...
Exactly Darkside, I read the same thing. These things are not perfect. The camera used is not directly in line with the plate, so its always a bit off.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
yankeehater said:
I am not saying that they are underdogs at all, just that a lot of people here, and in the mainstear media btw, where picking the Braves. It is not a huge shock that they are winning the divison, but having such a big lead and the best record in baseball is very surprising.
Click to expand...
There were certainly some people picking the Braves, but the consensus was definitely that the Phillies would win the division.

nl_east_2011_dave_allen.png
 
E

eznark

Banned
Of course Frankman is defending the indefensible. Of course he is.

The guy deserved to get berated and spit on!!!!!

Somehow players manage to keep their emotion in check in situations like that every single game. Molina lost his fucking shit for some reason. Since LaRussa can randomly file complaints demanding an investigation of the lighting, the Brewers should demand an investigation into Molina's clear anger issues. Either he is mentally unstable or "chemically" unstable.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
JABEE said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/preview/2011/news/story?page=11expertpicks

There were a pretty good number of experts picking the Braves to win the East. Some even had the Phillies missing the playoffs altogether.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember seeing that list and thinking I must have been failing to understand something basic about baseball. There were some goofy ass picks on that list (as happens with all lists, but it seemed to be more than I expected).
 
C

Cathcart

Member
I for one am disappointed in the Phillies' performance this year. They've almost lost 40 games! I expected 100 wins by early June and for opposing teams to be so embarrassed that they completely disbanded on the field. Number of teams remaining in baseball is my metric for success and so far we have made NO PROGRESS. Lame.

eznark said:
lol, one of those "experts" picked the Astros to win the division, rendering every opinion ESPN has the rest of eternity laughable.
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Well I'm sure at least one GAFer has predicted something even more ridiculous at some point or another so good news everyone, we're all laughable. Pressure's off!
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Cathcart said:
I for one am disappointed in the Phillies' performance this year. They've almost lost 40 games! I expected 100 wins by early June and for opposing teams to be so embarrassed that they completely disbanded on the field. Number of teams remaining in baseball is my metric for success and so far we have made NO PROGRESS. Lame.
Click to expand...


True, we're failing behind the predictions

uxbFS.png
 
E

eznark

Banned
Cathcart said:
Well I'm sure at least one GAFer has predicted something even more ridiculous at some point or another so good news everyone, we're all laughable. Pressure's off!
Click to expand...
\

Woah, people point to this thread as having baseball experts!? Sweet!...also, pressure? I think you're doing it wrong.

I must not have been invited to sit in on the meeting where Evilore told us who we had to pick publicly. Damn it, I feel like I should have been involved.

Clearly you don't remember the 2006-ish Kruk on-air meltdown when he freaked out because management wouldn't let him pick the Cardinals (as everyone else on set had picked the Cardinals). He told them he'd pick the Cubs, but then on air essentially told them to go fuck themselves and picked the Pirates.
 
J

jman2050

Member
Philly fans can't even do the whole "smug overconfident asshole" thing correctly even when their team is legitimately good. You're almost like Red Sox fans. You all still have a thing or two to learn from Yankees fans.
 
C

Cathcart

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
True, we're failing behind the predictions
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Nice. I guess sometimes I don't hate Wikipedia.

eznark said:
Woah, people point to this thread as having baseball experts!? Sweet!...also, pressure? I think you're doing it wrong.
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Relax, man, it's a joke. Everyone in this thread is an expert, didn't you know?

jman2050 said:
Philly fans can't even do the whole "smug overconfident asshole" thing correctly even when their team is legitimately good. You're almost like Red Sox fans. You all still have a thing or two to learn from Yankees fans.
Click to expand...
Thanks?
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
jman2050 said:
Philly fans can't even do the whole "smug overconfident asshole" thing correctly even when their team is legitimately good. You're almost like Red Sox fans. You all still have a thing or two to learn from Yankees fans.
Click to expand...
What the hell are you blabbering about? You are the definition of fans believing they have a wiffleball caliber team in the majors.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Braves are certainly good enough for some "experts" to pick as your "told you so" team. Any normal person would pick the Phils.
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Braves had a 7 game lead on the Phils last year going into August, they also had a ton of injuries last year, they brought in a new manager that people were saying would energize the team. There were a lot of reasons to expect the Braves to be better this year, and even though the Phils win the division now every year they always seem to make it close.
 
J

JABEE

Member
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Braves are certainly good enough for some "experts" to pick as your "told you so" team. Any normal person would pick the Phils.
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I was just providing examples of what people were predicting before the season when you said no one was predicting the Phillies to lose the division.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
JABEE said:
I was just providing examples of what people were predicting before the season when you said no one was predicting the Phillies to lose the division.
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I know, don't mean to jump on you. Just the Phils are the dominate team in the NL and are expected to be. If the Giants, Braves, lolMets beat them it would be an upset.

We have the same deal here in Boston unfortunately, just need to live with it even though our pitching is a mess.
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I know, don't mean to jump on you. Just the Phils are the dominate team in the NL and are expected to be. If the Giants, Braves, Mets beat them it would be an upset.

We have the same deal here in Boston unfortunately, just need to live with it even though our pitching is a mess.
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Fixed.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
looks like Heyward is getting benched in favor of a career minor leaguer. Hooray stupidity!
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
jman2050 said:
Philly fans can't even do the whole "smug overconfident asshole" thing correctly even when their team is legitimately good. You're almost like Red Sox fans. You all still have a thing or two to learn from Yankees fans.
Click to expand...

You mean like this amirite?

yMhAv.gif


;)
 
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