Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
- Start date
As of December 2007, over 10 million VC games have been purchased: http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6185358.html
This last page is proof that people are never happy. I guess some people would rather have all the great games come out right away, and then have nothing but pure crap coming out on the VC in 2 years.
This last page is proof that people are never happy. I guess some people would rather have all the great games come out right away, and then have nothing but pure crap coming out on the VC in 2 years.
ethelred said:
Maybe I should say "based on people's reactions in this thread". Just look at the last few pages alone. Even since launch there have been people bitching every week for one reason or another (during weeks with bad to good games there would be people complaing about no AAA games and that Nintendo doesn't know what they are doing. During weeks with great games, you would have people complaining that this game or that game isn't uploaded yet).
So no matter what Nintendo does, there will be some people complaining. But I guess that's the Internet in general, but it seems especially true when it comes to the VC.
I'm not sure where anyone suggested anything like that. There are hundreds of VC-viable good games, and Nintendo could release some more of them right now and still have a great number of good releases left over for the next couple of years.TJ Spyke said:
But even putting that aside, I'll bite: I would rather have all the great games come out right away, if that was the option put before me. >_>
TJ Spyke said:
Your argument was a ridiculous exaggeration of the very specific (and detailed) positions people have laid out over the past few weeks. Do most of the people here want Nintendo to flood the Virtual Console with all the great games immediately and then just release crap games for 2 years? No, not even remotely close to what's been posted; nice try.
Most of the complaints, actually, have focused not specifically on the quality of the games so much as the obvious decrease in quantity. We've dropped from a consistent three per week to rotations of one per week and two per week, which is bad. But hey, even ignoring the quantity, the quality's dropped, too. That's bad. There are more than enough good games out there unreleased (for NES, Genesis, SNES, TG16/CD, NeoGeo, N64, and now Master System and hell, probably 32X and Sega CD) -- hundreds of games' worth -- that they could do both: release good games now and release good games for the next two years.
You know, it's a bit sad that there's this reflexive need to defend everything Nintendo does or says here, because people really aren't asking that much. Most of the complaints regarding pricing have dried up even though there's still some lingering unhappiness; most of the complaints regarding some of the spotty emulation are largely gone, too. People want stuff like a consistent release schedule that doesn't consistently shortchange the various consoles; they want the release numbers to not inexplicably drop as new machines (and thus new libraries) are added to the potential release lists; they want to have some idea of what games are coming in the future (Japan gets this for the entire month; we have to suffice with Jsnake's PR leaks); they want games not to get rated and then sit unreleased for four or five or more months -- or even worse, for games to be released in one region only to never show up in another; they want the fucking storage issues addressed rather than getting condescending PR-flack aphorisms from Nintendo. None of this is unreasonable.
People are complaining that there's no wiimote/zapper controls for a light gun game when there were originally! That's not a ridiculous or unjustified complaint.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Ten million VC games?
Wow, VC is doing better than I thought. >_>
I wish we could get some sales numbers for specific games, but I know that's never happening.
Wow, VC is doing better than I thought. >_>
I wish we could get some sales numbers for specific games, but I know that's never happening.
Jiggy37 said:
I've always been of the opinion that Nintendo should be getting out games as quickly as possible. All the easily released first party stuff, as well as the games from the usual cooperative 3rd parties like Sega, Capcom, Hudson, Konami, and the like, should be tossed up as soon as possible. When those supplies are gone, they can spend their time working on getting licensed titles up there (the Capcom NES Disney games, Lucasarts Star Wars stuff, perhaps even the fabled Goldeneye), as well as getting some imports released. New systems can be added as well. If the VC is supposed to be a worthwhile library of classic games, those game should be up there quickly. I don't want to see a few 1st party games still trickling out several years from now when the Wii is in its last days just because Nintendo decided to hold them back that long.
That said, I understand that releasing things over time is good for marketing and letting lesser known titles have their time in the sun, etc. So I'm not saying we should get the whole NES library tossed up on Monday. However, I think a good 4-5 titles a week is acceptable. Basically what Japan was getting last year.
Somnid said:
Good god, are you people gripped with Stockholm Syndrome or something? "Oh no! Even if Nintendo does something manifestly and unquestionably to the benefit of everyone, there might still be a few people that say naughty things! So I hope Nintendo doesn't do anything!"
It's actually doing worse than I thought, at least by my outlook... From what I understand of tie ratios, VC's should be improving relative to the number of Wiis sold instead of remaining stagnant at ~0.5 (at least, I think that was also the approximate tie ratio back in the time of that 7.8 million VC sales figure).Iam Canadian said:
That it isn't improving means either (I believe) that previous VC buyers have slowed down as repeat buyers, or that the group of people who have bought a Wii since that 7.8 million VC figure are less likely to buy VC games than the group who came before them.
Odrion said:
what's your best time on Deadly Falls?
I wish they had come up with a solution for ghost data trading on the VC, that was the best thing about this game years ago.
Something they should add in a firmware update down the road is the ability to hit the home button and take a screen capture and send the pic to someone. It could be a universal thing for any game, disc based or VC.
Minsc
Gold Member
Jiggy37 said:
To be fair adjust the ratio to reflect the number of people who even know about the games, I doubt more than 1/2 of Wii users know they can buy them at all.
Then factor in pricing, horrible setup, long slow loading channels, lack of memory, lack of advertising, no demos/videos easily accessible, and so on.
Brawl is probably the best thing to happen for the VC since it launched, I'd expect a fairly decent spike when it's released in the US.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Minsc said:
I'm betting that Nintendo is expecting that, too.
It's the only explanation for the 'down time'. They're holding all of their cards until Brawl hits.
Then...hopefully...things will be back to normal.
nice.Capndrake said:
How is the difficulty compared to Gate of Thunder? I haven't reached the 2nd level on GoT yet :lol tried it only 3-4 times though
jetsetmario
Member
I know for me it is all about the memory constraint. I haven't bought a VC title for 6 months easy for the simple fact that I have no more room to do so. There is easily $100 worth of games I would get on the VC if I could. Again, Nintendo's ability to create impossible situations for consumers is just mind blowing.
CreatureX3
Member
Do your calculations take into consideration that some Wii owners may not even have internet access to purchase VC games?Jiggy37 said:
Impossible situations? The Wii lets you move games to SD cards or delete and download your purchased games as many times as you wish. Is it really so hard to delete some of the VC games you don't play regularly to make room for new ones? It may be an inconvenient method, but it isn't an "impossible" one.jetsetmario said:
BuddhaRockstar
Member
ethelred said:
I think he means have a wireless network set up. Also believe it or not some people still don't have internet access at home, some prefer to use it at work and only use it to check email and such. I'm willing to bet there's a large % of Wii's that aren't connected to the internet, much more than 360 or PS3.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Insaniac said:
Columns III and Operation: Wolf(without lightgun support).
Joygasm.
Minsc
Gold Member
CreatureX3 said:Impossible situations? The Wii lets you move games to SD cards or delete and download your purchased games as many times as you wish. Is it really so hard to delete some of the VC games you don't play regularly to make room for new ones? It may be an inconvenient method, but it isn't an "impossible" one.
Yea, and it takes fucking 10 minutes to move a N64 game to a SD card with the Wii (funny something that size take like 5 seconds on a PC or digital camera). It's quicker for me to re-download it. Probably part of the reason Nintendo doesn't let you run anything from the SD slot, it's slower than a floppy.
Superblatt
Member
Capndrake said:
Does this mean the US will get it on Monday? I sure hope so. Mondays suck, and this would bring a smile to my face after this coming weekend.
FFantasyFX
Member
Superblatt said:
I think it's extremely likely. There are two TG16 games due out this month, and only three remaining weeks to release them. Unless Hudson releases them in consecutive weeks, one needs to be released this week. And, based on Hudson's website, looks Lords of Thunder is first in line. I'm just wondering what game, if any, is released with it. I'd say we're due Harvest Moon.
Superblatt
Member
LinkAMN said:
Turbo.
Turbo.
Turbo.
Minsc said:
Nintendo's lack of advertising for the VC service is baffling. Sure, selling the games is free money to them, so it could be argued that they shouldn't spend any more money on the service than needed, but why not at least let people know about it once in a while? A lot of lapsed gamers would love the chance to buy and play SMB or Zelda again, I'm sure - if only they knew about it.
Also baffling: Nintendo's refusal to add demos or even videos to the VC channel. Do they not want people to know that some of the games are absolute shit, or aren't worth playing for more than a few minutes? I can't think of any other reason. I'd certainly make a few more VC purchases if I could at least see what they look like in motion...
To the best of my understanding, yes. Even if only 4 out of 10 Wii owners could go online, and only 2 of those 4 became VC buyers, the numbers should keep looking better. Here's an example model (again, going by the best of my understanding):CreatureX3 said:
400k Wiis sold per month
160k Wii buyers have internet access (this actually isn't that relevant, but I'll toss it in there)
80k Wii buyers buy VC games, and they buy VC games at a rate of 1 game per month for every month they own a Wii
Month 1: 400k Wiis, 80k VC games, tie ratio 0.2
Month 2: (lifetime) 800k Wiis, (lifetime) 240k VC games, tie ratio 0.3
Month 3: 1.2 million Wiis, 480k VC games, tie ratio 0.4
Month 4: 1.6 million Wiis, 800k VC games, tie ratio 0.5
Month 5: 2 million Wiis, 1.2 million VC games, tie ratio 0.6
Month 6: 2.4 million Wiis, 1.68 million VC games, tie ratio 0.7
This example relies on the idea that both old Wii owners and new Wii owners are buying VC games at about the same rate. Let's change the model and say that VC customers buy 2 VC games, but they only buy them in the same month that they got their Wii (without returning for more later).
Month 1: 400k Wiis, 160k VC games, tie ratio 0.4
Month 2: 800k Wiis, 320k VC games, tie ratio 0.4
Month 3: 1.2 million Wiis, 480k VC games, tie ratio 0.4
Month 4: 1.6 million Wiis, 640k VC games, tie ratio 0.4
Month 5: 2 million Wiis, 800k VC games, tie ratio 0.4
Month 6: 2.4 million Wiis, 960k VC games, tie ratio 0.4
That could be more like what's going on. New Wii owners go onto the shop channel once and then never look at the service again, so the sales are pretty consistent.
Another possibility is that only the hardcore are buying games. For this hypothetical, assume that the hardcore buy one and a half VC games per month every month, that they're the ones who bought in the first two months, and that after that point there are no new VC buyers. (For whatever reason, i.e. it's getting easier to find Wiis, so more casual people who don't know about the existence of VC are buying the hardware.)
Month 1: 400k Wiis, 120k VC games, tie ratio 0.3
Month 2: 800k Wiis, 360k VC games, tie ratio 0.45
Month 3: 1.2 million Wiis, 600k VC games, tie ratio 0.5
Month 4: 1.6 million Wiis, 840k VC games, tie ratio 0.525
Month 4: 2 million Wiis, 1.08 million VC games, tie ratio 0.54
Month 5: 2.4 million Wiis, 1.32 million VC games, tie ratio 0.55
Month 6: 2.8 million Wiis, 1.56 million VC games, tie ratio 0.557
That could also be something like what's happening. In this version of the story, newer Wii buyers aren't in on the VC market, so it's being upheld only by the early adopters. It's not a possibility I like. The first hypothetical is what I want to be true: both new Wii buyers and old Wii buyers are looking into VC every month.
And here's (I think) an entirely separate argument on why I'm not happy with the sales yet.
The standard Wii Points amount is 2000, and it's utterly impossible to be unable to afford at least two games with that. In fact, unless a person's first VC title is Sin and Punishment, it's impossible to not be able to afford at least three games. Granted, if a person buys an N64 game, they'd have to buy two other NES games to fit three games into 2000 points, but I don't think that's too unlikely since NES games have been pretty dominant sales-wise. Take a look at the most popular chart from last week, or the week before that, or the week before that, or the week before that, or the week before that. At the very least, NES games are performing well enough for me to feel safe thinking that the average VC buyer will pick up ~2.5 games on a single standard Wii points card.
(Incidentally, soon enough Master System will join in on the 500-point fun to make it even more likely that people will buy three games with 2000 points, but I'm just talking about the past for now. Also, I realize that those most popular titles figures are only going by one region; I don't know how it's working out worldwide. It could be that Europe just adores N64 and constantly uses 2000 points to buy two N64 games. Or it could be that worldwide figures tilt the argument even more in my favor because of Japan, where TG16 was a much more succesful system and where Genesis games only cost 600, allowing combos of, say, SNES/Genesis/Genesis or TGCD/TG16/Genesis or NES/Genesis/SNES to fit into 2000 points. I think the Japan scenario is more likely, but I'm just simplifying for now since I don't have evidence for either one.)
Here's the thing. Even assuming that on average only 2 out of every 10 Wii owners get into VC, and they pick up 2.5 games each, and they only do so once in their lifetime, the tie ratio for VC games would be exactly 0.5, which is--coincidence--almost exactly what the tie ratio is in reality. But it could be that the situation is even worse. It could be that only 1 out of every 10 Wii buyers pick up VC games, but on average they pick up 5 of them over their lifetime of system ownership. Or it could be that 1 out of every 20 Wii buyers pick up VC games, but buy 10 of them on average.
No matter which of those possibilities was the closest to the truth, I don't like it and don't think it's good enough. More growth should be happening, and I want to see these numbers higher than they are.
On the side of optimism, the combined efforts of Brawl and Wii Ware might help spread some awareness (I'm being really optimistic mentioning Wii Ware here since I'm not sure how well I trust Nintendo to promote that service, even though I personally very much want it to succeed), and those haven't been released worldwide yet, so maybe the numbers will look better next time around. I definitely hope that turns out to be the case, for one very significant reason: if the sales of VC games improve, maybe the efforts of both third-party developers and (especially) Nintendo will do so as well.
brain_stew
Member
Capndrake said:
Sucks to have only one update but a 600 point price will probably push me over the edge with this one.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Capndrake said:
It took NeoGAF secret santa to make me even look at virtual console again.
There needs to be a good update soon.
Hopefully this marks some kind of price adjustment policy though, maybe to be announced at GDC? That would be nice.
RuneFactoryFanboy
Member
so gaf, whats the best version of Street Fighter 2?
I owned Turbo as a kid and loved it, but Super has more characters. Was anything downgraded in Super or is that by far the best?
I owned Turbo as a kid and loved it, but Super has more characters. Was anything downgraded in Super or is that by far the best?
The Hermit
Member
YAY!!
My crappy Nintendo USB finally worked!!
I can´t wait to dl games like Shinobi 3 and Sin & Punishment!!
Btw two Q:
How playable is Sin & Punishment with the GCN controller? I know it support it, but I wonder how good it is...
Also, does Star Tropic worth a try? Everyone kept talking about this game but I dunno even what it´s about...
Turbo, don´t bother with Super unless it´s Super SFII Turbo/X that doesn´t have a Snes version.
My crappy Nintendo USB finally worked!!
I can´t wait to dl games like Shinobi 3 and Sin & Punishment!!
Btw two Q:
How playable is Sin & Punishment with the GCN controller? I know it support it, but I wonder how good it is...
Also, does Star Tropic worth a try? Everyone kept talking about this game but I dunno even what it´s about...
RuneFactoryFanboy said:
Turbo, don´t bother with Super unless it´s Super SFII Turbo/X that doesn´t have a Snes version.
The next VC game released in North America will be the 200th.
I'm aware that the week of the 100th was a bigger week than usual. But did Nintendo actually make a big deal out of it being the 100th release, or even mention it?
Part of me is expecting a great VC week, but I'm also skeptical that NOA will even mention the 200-game landmark.
I'm aware that the week of the 100th was a bigger week than usual. But did Nintendo actually make a big deal out of it being the 100th release, or even mention it?
Part of me is expecting a great VC week, but I'm also skeptical that NOA will even mention the 200-game landmark.
I had Internet problems last week and forgot to update. The past 2 weeks update. North America got 2 new games and 1 EU game, Europe got 1 new game and and NA game.
Games available in Europe and not North America: Mega Man (NES), Mega Man 2 (NES), Skate or Die! (NES), Mario's Super Picross (SNES), Vectorman (GEN/MD), Crack Down (GEN/MD), ESWAT: City Under Siege (GEN/MD), Lords of Thunder (TGCD)
Games available in North America and not Europe: The Legend of Kage (NES), Elevator Action (NES), Tecmo Bowl (NES), Milon's Secret Castle (NES), Lode Runner (NES), Star Soldier (NES), Adventure Island (NES), NES Play Action Football (NES), Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (NES, it's no longer available in Europe), Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos (NES), Zanac (NES), Ghosts 'n Goblins (NES), Operation Wolf (NES), Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV: Wall of Fire (SNES), Metal Marines (SNES), Pac-Attack (SNES), Ecco Jr. (GEN), Eternal Champions (GEN), Columns III: Revenge of Columns (GEN), Bravoman (TG16), Ordyne (TG16)
Total: 8 in Europe, 21 in North America
Australia/New Zealand is the same as Europe, except they have Axelay (SNES) instead of Super C.
Games available in Europe and not North America: Mega Man (NES), Mega Man 2 (NES), Skate or Die! (NES), Mario's Super Picross (SNES), Vectorman (GEN/MD), Crack Down (GEN/MD), ESWAT: City Under Siege (GEN/MD), Lords of Thunder (TGCD)
Games available in North America and not Europe: The Legend of Kage (NES), Elevator Action (NES), Tecmo Bowl (NES), Milon's Secret Castle (NES), Lode Runner (NES), Star Soldier (NES), Adventure Island (NES), NES Play Action Football (NES), Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (NES, it's no longer available in Europe), Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos (NES), Zanac (NES), Ghosts 'n Goblins (NES), Operation Wolf (NES), Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV: Wall of Fire (SNES), Metal Marines (SNES), Pac-Attack (SNES), Ecco Jr. (GEN), Eternal Champions (GEN), Columns III: Revenge of Columns (GEN), Bravoman (TG16), Ordyne (TG16)
Total: 8 in Europe, 21 in North America
Australia/New Zealand is the same as Europe, except they have Axelay (SNES) instead of Super C.
RuneFactoryFanboy
Member
What makes it better?TJ Spyke said:
What makes it worse?Baiano19 said:
TJ Spyke said:
If I'm remembering correctly, they were at 96 the week before, so they tossed up four games to make 100. Zelda 2 was credited as Game #100.
In this situation, we're at 199 games, so they'll make 200 no matter what. There are three scenarios I can see:
1) One game gets released, and is touted as 200 (bad, unless it's Earthbound or something)
2) 2 or more games get released, one is touted as 200 (hopefully a good game, this is the best scenario)
3) 1 or 2 games get released, none of which are exciting, no mention of Game #200 (this is most likely)