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[brain_stew]

Thanks, brain_stew. I had considered looking at AMDs but I've built several Intel systems recently so I figured I would stick with what I know since I will have to support it remotely if anything goes wrong. I'm still wondering why Intel reused the E6300 designation, I have an E6400 conroe in one of my computers here at home and initially thought it was the old conroe processor which I didn't want. Had to make sure it was a pentium and not a C2D on the box.

E5xxx processors use a 800mhz FSB and have 2MB L2 cache.
E7xxx processors use a 1066mhz FSB and have a 3MB L2 cache.
The E6300 has a 1066mhz FSB and 2MB L2 cache.

Its the only name that "fit" really and the old E6300 has been EOL for several years now. The new 45nm version is significantly faster.

 

[larvi]

E5xxx processors use a 800mhz FSB and have 2MB L2 cache.
E7xxx processors use a 1066mhz FSB and have a 3MB L2 cache.
The E6300 has a 1066mhz FSB and 2MB L2 cache.

Its the only name that "fit" really and the old E6300 has been EOL for several years now. The new 45nm version is significantly faster.

True, but I wouldn't put it past Frys to try to clear out some dusty old stock they had laying around. The seem to bait an switch a lot on some of the better deals, as it was they tried to give me a E5300 first.

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

What an awesome price!

Phenom II 945 3Ghz 95w (new model with less tdp) $169
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10010872


larvi
The Athlon II 250(even the 245) for it's price it's a better option than the new E6300. Go look here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16819103687


What could be wrong with an AMD setup? Most of fails will be HDD or ram (the most common) so there won't be any difference.

AII 250 advantages over E6300
consume less
lower temps

And I know a lot of people that they're going for the 245 for HTPC. A minimonster.

 

[MWS Natural]

Posting from my friends PC that I just built. This damn OCZ 64gb Vertex is amazing! I can't wait to get my intel g2 when they come out. Everything turned out fine except the DVD burner is his old Dell wouldn't read any of my burnt DVD's so we had to go out and buy a new drive. Wound up picking up a 26inch HDTV monitor as well, was only $340 at Comp USA. He is extremely pleased at how much faster his new PC is

 

[squicken]

I'll try this question here. Don't know exactly where it belongs.

Playing Crysis Warhead. My 1080p HDTV is my monitor. Game defaults to 1024x768. I have no idea how my TV is even displaying that resolution. Whatever. I try 1280x720. Get black screen, then reverts back to 1024x768 b/c I never can confirm change b/c I can't see anything.

Obviously my TV supports 720p. My desktop supports 720 if I want, so it's not the card. Any ideas? Oddly, 1080p is not even a choice amongst the resolutions listed. It's like the game doesn't know I have TV connected as a monitor.

 

[Sleeker]

I'll try this question here. Don't know exactly where it belongs.

Playing Crysis Warhead. My 1080p HDTV is my monitor. Game defaults to 1024x768. I have no idea how my TV is even displaying that resolution. Whatever. I try 1280x720. Get black screen, then reverts back to 1024x768 b/c I never can confirm change b/c I can't see anything.

Obviously my TV supports 720p. My desktop supports 720 if I want, so it's not the card. Any ideas? Oddly, 1080p is not even a choice amongst the resolutions listed. It's like the game doesn't know I have TV connected as a monitor.

what kind of cable are you using?
VGA wont cut it for 1080p

 

[squicken]

what kind of cable are you using?
VGA wont cut it for 1080p

HDMI. Desktop runs at native resolution of course. I just tried the FEAR 2 demo, and that ran fine in 1280x720. So it seems it is a Crysis specific issue.

 

[Adent]

Can you guys please help me out. My computer keeps freezing up. Some times it wont boot up. I get these two bios post codes. Does it mean my memory is bad or does it mean something else. The post codes are for a dell computer.

0D - First-64KB parity error
I take this means there is something wrong with the ram. This one is shown when the computer is able start all the way.

20 - Slave DMA register Bad
I'm not sure what this means. I haven't been able to figure out if a DMA controller is hardware or software. This one happens when the computer won't start at all.

So do I need a new PC!!?

 

[dionysus]

So I moved recently and just set up my computer again. My 3.0 Ghz overclocked q6600 is now running 2 cores at 80C idling in XP. I believe before the move it ran at 45C or less at idle. Is it a safe assumption to say that I might have broken or cracked the thermal paste between my cpu and cooler? Cooler fan is definitely spinnning at high speed. Also have a 20C gap between my hottest and coldest cores, which never used to happen.


Might not even bother to repair it as I will be replacing this cpu shortly anyway as long as it doesn't go much higher than this.

 

[brain_stew]

I'll try this question here. Don't know exactly where it belongs.

Playing Crysis Warhead. My 1080p HDTV is my monitor. Game defaults to 1024x768. I have no idea how my TV is even displaying that resolution. Whatever. I try 1280x720. Get black screen, then reverts back to 1024x768 b/c I never can confirm change b/c I can't see anything.

Obviously my TV supports 720p. My desktop supports 720 if I want, so it's not the card. Any ideas? Oddly, 1080p is not even a choice amongst the resolutions listed. It's like the game doesn't know I have TV connected as a monitor.

Just set your resolution in the config file.

www.tweakguides.com will tell you how (its very easy).

You should really be installing a custom config and enabling triple buffering (through the config file) whilst you're on as well.

 

[brain_stew]

Can you guys please help me out. My computer keeps freezing up. Some times it wont boot up. I get these two bios post codes. Does it mean my memory is bad or does it mean something else. The post codes are for a dell computer.

0D - First-64KB parity error
I take this means there is something wrong with the ram. This one is shown when the computer is able start all the way.

20 - Slave DMA register Bad
I'm not sure what this means. I haven't been able to figure out if a DMA controller is hardware or software. This one happens when the computer won't start at all.

So do I need a new PC!!?

Run Memtest.

http://hcidesign.com/memtest/

 

[godhandiscen]

So My First Build is now almost complete, just waiting for payday tomorrow then I'll make my gfx card decision.
I'm stuck on the familiar 4890 vs. GTX 275 dilemma and was erring towards the 275 (XFX model to be specific), until the size of the thing struck me.
My case is an Antec P183 - does anyone know if it'll fit without me having to ditch the upper HDD bay?

4890 all the way. It is more powerful than the GTX275, it almost competes with the 285, and it can be overclocked like crazy.

 

[dasupremeone]

crysis and crysis warhead still run like dogshit.

tired of searching for a solution just going to give up

atleast all of my other games run better

 

[Minsc]

Posting from my friends PC that I just built. This damn OCZ 64gb Vertex is amazing! I can't wait to get my intel g2 when they come out. Everything turned out fine except the DVD burner is his old Dell wouldn't read any of my burnt DVD's so we had to go out and buy a new drive. Wound up picking up a 26inch HDTV monitor as well, was only $340 at Comp USA. He is extremely pleased at how much faster his new PC is

I'm pretty excited for that intel g2 as well! Did you set up the OCZ on Vista or Windows 7? Windows 7 is supposed to be about a good 10% faster with SSDs, so I'm looking forward to getting all the pieces complimenting each other to their fullest.

 

[godhandiscen]

crysis and crysis warhead still run like dogshit.

tired of searching for a solution just going to give up

atleast all of my other games run better

Your processor is holding you back when it comes to Crysis and Crysis Warhead. Try setting physics to the minimum and such.

 

[squicken]

Just set your resolution in the config file.

I've tried that. It just boots to a black screen and I have to alt-tab out. There's just something screwy with it. Like I can select a resolution slighly lower than 1280x720, and it displays with a small black border. Same with something slightly below 1080p. I may just reinstall.

Still, I bought the game and have spent 3-4 hours fucking with it instead of actually playing it. That was kind of fun in college when I reinstalled Win95 every couple weeks and messed with jumpers on motherboards. Now, I'm just too old for PC gaming I guess.

Again, though, thanks for the help brain_stew. I'm sure I'll eventually get it going.

 

[Mr Jared]

Oh no, GAF! I went to build the PC that zbarron put together for me, but there's a problem. The motherboard I want is out of stock!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128368

I want to order by Monday since I want to finish up work on my arcade cab (this is for a beastly MAME + SF4 PC rig), so if it's still sold out, can someone else recommend a comparable motherboard? Thanks!

 

[IceMarker]

Well I've just been confirmed by my dad that I indeed will get a 650W PSU and a GTx 260 for my birthday.

...

...

FUCK YEAH

 

[MWS Natural]

I'm pretty excited for that intel g2 as well! Did you set up the OCZ on Vista or Windows 7? Windows 7 is supposed to be about a good 10% faster with SSDs, so I'm looking forward to getting all the pieces complimenting each other to their fullest.

I installed Windows 7 but didn't get a chance to see what other tweaks I could do to it. That shit is so fast that installation windows would pop up, I'd see 0% then they would go away :lol

His rich ass bought a 26inch samsung LCD to go with it. I can't believe how much bigger 26 is than my 23 incher....damn buyers envy =/

4890 all the way. It is more powerful than the GTX275, it almost competes with the 285, and it can be overclocked like crazy.

The cards are equal depending on the game one runs better than the other. The Nvidia cards run a bit cooler standard and ATI has better hdmi audio support. I'd say go with whenever one you can find cheaper at the time.

 

[Minsc]

4890 all the way. It is more powerful than the GTX275, it almost competes with the 285, and it can be overclocked like crazy.

Curious, then why does it score 15% worse on futuremark? Is it just the drivers aren't as well optimized compared to nvidia's?

Then again the 275 scores higher than the 285 there :lol Perhaps it is one hell of an overclocker's card.

 

[Psychotext]

Curious, then why does it score 15% worse on futuremark? Is it just the drivers aren't as well optimized compared to nvidia's?

Futuremark is pretty meaningless. There's not much at all (3%?) between the two cards, at least at 1920 x 1200.

Sum of FPS benchmarks - 1920 x 1200 - 4 x AA

Sum of FPS benchmarks - 1920 x 1200 - 8 x AA

What MWS Natural said is right.

 

[K.Jack]

Nvidia's next-gen mobile chips won't hit until the first quarter of next year, unless a miracle happens.

The 40nm yields are abysmall right now.

This is an fyi for those waiting to see what notebooks will come out over the next couple of months. The only GT200 performance chips out this year will be the GTS 250M/260M.

 

[Sleeker]

Does anyone else think Crysis has way too much jaggys?

I played around with warhead today, and had the resolution at 1920x1200, AAx4 and all the buildings, edges of trees and an objects at a distance has tonnes of little jaggies popping out.
So then i turned AA up to 16x and it looked exactly the same.

Its bad enough that all the distant foliage looks like fine green mesh.

 

[DietRob]

I've got a PC question.

I'm wanting to upgrade the video card on my current PC.

I have a friend that wants to trade me a BFG 9600 GT. In return he would get Resistance 1 and 2, I'm also letting him DL Wipeout HD + Fury.

My current PC is Quad Core 6600, 4 gb RAM, 500 gb HDD. The PSU is only 300 W (i think).

My questions will the BFG 9600 GT with my current setup run most current games effectively?

Will I need to upgrade the PSU in order to support the video card?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Psychotext]

Does anyone else think Crysis has way too much jaggys?

I played around with warhead today, and had the resolution at 1920x1200, AAx4 and all the buildings, edges of trees and an objects at a distance has tonnes of little jaggies popping out.
So then i turned AA up to 16x and it looked exactly the same.

Its bad enough that all the distant foliage looks like fine green mesh.

Isn't that sorted by upping the AF rather than the AA?

 

[Milpool]

Isn't that sorted by upping the AF rather than the AA?

AA is for jaggies, AF is texture filtering, sounds like his AA isn't working at all though. Maybe try forcing it through ati or nvidia control panel.

 

[TouchMyBox]

I've got a PC question.

I'm wanting to upgrade the video card on my current PC.

I have a friend that wants to trade me a BFG 9600 GT. In return he would get Resistance 1 and 2, I'm also letting him DL Wipeout HD + Fury.

My current PC is Quad Core 6600, 4 gb RAM, 500 gb HDD. The PSU is only 300 W (i think).

My questions will the BFG 9600 GT with my current setup run most current games effectively?

Will I need to upgrade the PSU in order to support the video card?

Thanks in advance.

It'll run the majority of games out there great. Don't expect games like crysis or arma to be smooth, but it'll be more than enough if you just want L4D to run and look great.

 

[Psychotext]

AA is for jaggies, AF is texture filtering, sounds like his AA isn't working at all though. Maybe try forcing it through ati or nvidia control panel.

Yeah, but it sounded to me more like he's seeing .... (crap I forget the term) in the distance. A side effect of low AF.

I misread his post anyway. I thought it was only stuff at a distance doing it.

Edit - Nope... I can't find the term for what I was trying to say. Never mind. :lol

 

[Alucrid]

Well not exactly a computer but close enough. Does anyone have recommendations for a good monitor? The only specs I'm looking for is around 20-22" with an HDMI slot for a fairly reasonable price, around 200-250.

 

[Dascu]

Alright. I've been using a laptop for the last couple of years, but with all those upcoming games, I feel it's time to build myself a good PC that will last me a while. I've got a 850 euro budget and I'm trying to max out my potential here:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-UD4H,Socket-AM2+/AM3
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition 125W, AM2+, 8MB Cache, 3,0Ghz, Boxed
PSU: Corsair Powersupply 550W Black, ATX/EPS, 120mm Fan, 4xSATA, SLI, WxHxL
RAM: OCZ DDR2 PC6400 4GB KIT, Titanium XTC, w/two 2048MB, CL4-4-4-15
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint T166 320GB, 16MB, 7200RPM, SATA 3.0 Gbps
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 4890 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0, "Overclock Edition" 2xDVI-I, HDMI, HDCP, 901MHz, Full-Retail
Case: Gigabyte GZ-X1 Zwart, 4X 5,25", 2X 3,5", 6,8 KG
Screen: Acer 21.5" Wide V223HQ 1920x1080 (16:9 HD), 10000:1, 5ms, VGA
DVD: LG DVD±RW burner, GH22NP20, 22x, SecureDisc, Black and White, Retail
Keyboard: Logitech Media Keyboard 600, Azerty-layout

Total price: 865,08 euro


I've used the $500 gaming rig thread for some suggestions.

Comments and suggestions would be very appreciated.

 

[DietRob]

It'll run the majority of games out there great. Don't expect games like crysis or arma to be smooth, but it'll be more than enough if you just want L4D to run and look great.

Thanks I appreciate the feedback. I want to play Crisis and I'll probably check out arma as long as I can get about 25 -30 FPS I can manage.

But:

Will I need to upgrade the PSU in order to support the video card?

 

[MWS Natural]

Does anyone else think Crysis has way too much jaggys?

I played around with warhead today, and had the resolution at 1920x1200, AAx4 and all the buildings, edges of trees and an objects at a distance has tonnes of little jaggies popping out.
So then i turned AA up to 16x and it looked exactly the same.

Its bad enough that all the distant foliage looks like fine green mesh.

I read something online saying how crysis does not use AA like other games, they use a spacific kind of AA that doesn't work on the foilage? I don't remember but I'm sure PC Master Brain Stew can explain better

Alright. I've been using a laptop for the last couple of years, but with all those upcoming games, I feel it's time to build myself a good PC that will last me a while. I've got a 850 euro budget and I'm trying to max out my potential here:

There have been some awesome deals on U.S newegg for the Phenom II 945 with included mobo/GPU, not sure about in EU though sorry. As far as your build the only thing I personally would go with a more powerful PSU because I would want to carry it over for my next build.

 

[bigmit3737]

Hey guys I am new to overclocking and would like to overclock my E5200 to 3.0+.

I bought a decent cooler for it; ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail

ud3p-p45 gigabyte is my motherboard.

My Ram is:

mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996580 - Retail


So is there a site where I can find a series of steps?


Thank you.

 

[Ceebs]

A bit of a PSU question here. What should I be looking for in a power supply if I know what wattage I need. I look at specs and see all kinds of ratings of volts at certain amps and cannot make heads or tail of any of it.

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

A bit of a PSU question here. What should I be looking for in a power supply if I know what wattage I need. I look at specs and see all kinds of ratings of volts at certain amps and cannot make heads or tail of any of it.

What kind of graphics card are you gonna be using? How many hard drives? The more peripherals, the more power.

500 watts is usually more than enough. More than one graphics card and you may need to bump it up.

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

Oh no, GAF! I went to build the PC that zbarron put together for me, but there's a problem. The motherboard I want is out of stock!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128368

I want to order by Monday since I want to finish up work on my arcade cab (this is for a beastly MAME + SF4 PC rig), so if it's still sold out, can someone else recommend a comparable motherboard? Thanks!

Athlon II 245 way better than E5200 and almost the same price.
GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H

Better mobo and a future proof setup. Core2duo/PentiumDual Core is yesterday in performance/buck.

The HD4850 of your list is also deactivated. This can be a replace:
HIS HD4850 IceQ4 Very quiet

Asus HD4770

Similar to HD4850 with less power consumption, lower temps and more OC friendly.

 

[IllusionaryWeaponry]

Hey everyone, I need to decide on a laptop for college as a computer science major for schoolwork,programming, some some pc gaming. I've narrowed down the best laptops for my price range. Overall I would like to know which of these two is the better deal and some opinions. Also if theres anything better available or 800 dollars lmk

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220559

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114653

 

[zoku88]

Personally, I think both of those laptops are bad for college. The battery life on those is assuredly low.

 

[Ceebs]

What kind of graphics card are you gonna be using? How many hard drives? The more peripherals, the more power.

500 watts is usually more than enough. More than one graphics card and you may need to bump it up.

A 4890 for the video card, 1 HDD, and I use an external DVD drive.

I know the 500w should cover it, but looking at PSU's you see 500w from dirt cheap to $100+.

Just want to know what to look for besides "buy this brand"

 

[MWS Natural]

Intel X25-M G2 SSD's up on newegg. Of course they are sold out already. I read that the competition is slashing prices now to keep up. If you are in the market for an SSD there will be some sweet deals in the next couple of months.

 

[Orangepeel]

mmm, PC gaf, it just feels right.

Anyway I've really really been wanting to build my own computer for a few years now and I'm ready to take the (moderate) plunge.

Thanks in part to the 399$ Crysis PC: I Took It On! I am triumphant. thread and in particular brain_stew's current day $400 rig post with double the performance of the original thread.

Oh, since its been bumped, I'll post today's $399 Crysis PC that I configured the other day. Pretty much a 2x upgrade in every area compared to what Cosma put together about 16 months ago.

US GAF'S ULTIMATE $400 GAMING RIG

[CPU/MOTHERBOARD/MEMORY COMBO (2.8ghz E6300 / ECS G31 / OCZ SLI 4GB 800mhz)]: http://www.newegg.com/Common/MessagePage.aspx?MsgCode=419&ID=3 ($157 +$23 MIR)
[DVDRW (Samsung 22x SATA)]: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151187 ($27)
[GPU (HIS ICEQ 4850 512M)]: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102824 ($100 + $20 rebate)
[HDD (WD CAVIAR BLUE 640GB )]: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218 ($60)
[CASE/PSU COMBO (Coolermaster Centurion 5 / Coolermaster 460w): http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.208506 ($75)


$418.92 - $53 rebates = $375.93

Utterly insane.

If all you want is an excellent gaming machine for as little as possible without any major compromises, look no further.

I'm going for it, over the next two weeks or so at least, my only problem is I'm gonna have to look a little bit more since the combo deals posted are expired now and I suppose it's always good to look for the best deals, but if anyone can share some nuggets of info or better bargains that stick within that $400 range that would be pretty awesome.

 

[godhandiscen]

Curious, then why does it score 15% worse on futuremark? Is it just the drivers aren't as well optimized compared to nvidia's?

Then again the 275 scores higher than the 285 there :lol Perhaps it is one hell of an overclocker's card.

Because Nvidia optimizes their drivers for futuremark. Also, synthetic benchmarks are worth shit. Also, it is hard to find a game on which the 275 beats the 4890 right now.

Check this article for example. The 4890 beats the 275 in all games compared minus FarCry 2 even using higuer settings. After a mild overclock it beats it in FarCry 2 and makes the difference in frames even higuer. The 4890 has a slight change in architecture, you have to remember, and that has allowed ATI to improve performance with newer drivers.

http://hardocp.com/article/2009/06/22/powercolor_pcs_hd4890_1gb/1

edit: see stock 4890 for reference and the product compared in the article to see what I mean by a light OC.

 

[Truespeed]

Because Nvidia optimizes their drivers for futuremark. Also, synthetic benchmarks are worth shit. Also, it is hard to find a game on which the 275 beats the 4890 right now.

Right, like ATI has never 'optimized' their drivers for those silly Futuremark tests. It wasn't too long ago both companies were called out for out right cheating. They just call it 'optimizing' now.

 

[sarcastor]

so i broke my heatsink while cleaning it (yes i'm clumsy), so rather than spending $15 on a replacement i decided to get an E5200 cpu for $75 with heatsink to replace my aging E4300. yeah its not that much faster (2.5ghz vs 1.8gz) but it's the same bus speed, and i'm poor

so anyways, the new cpu didn't work, as the computer won't boot. any suggestions?

maybe cause the new cpu is 45nm? On the website for my mobo, the CPU list says "search not found". thanks Gigabyte....

 

[godhandiscen]

Right, like ATI has never 'optimized' their drivers for those silly Futuremark tests. It wasn't too long ago both companies were called out for out right cheating. They just call it 'optimizing' now.

Both sides do it, that is why Futuremark doesn't mean jack.

 

[Hazaro]

so i broke my heatsink while cleaning it (yes i'm clumsy), so rather than spending $15 on a replacement i decided to get an E5200 cpu for $75 with heatsink to replace my aging E4300. yeah its not that much faster (2.5ghz vs 1.8gz) but it's the same bus speed, and i'm poor

so anyways, the new cpu didn't work, as the computer won't boot. any suggestions?

maybe cause the new cpu is 45nm? On the website for my mobo, the CPU list says "search not found". thanks Gigabyte....

Check and update the BIOS to make sure it up to date and can support 45nm.

 

[longdi]

I dont think it have to do with futuremark. GTX 275 IS a little faster than HD 4890. Nvidia card have a little more FPS. See the THG collection benchmarks above. This is because of Nvidia's The Way It is Meant to be play program on more games.

Pros of GTX 275
- quieter HSF even when ramp up
- quieter idle ops
- lower idle temp/power
- shaders have high overclocking potential

Pros of HD 4890
- lower max power draw
- cheaper
- shorter length
- 7.1 HD audio passthrough
- most if not all cards will do 900mhz core, 1000mhz memory easily

either one will do. my 2 cents.

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

I saw many HD4890 Toxic doing 1045Mhz core / 5000 memory(1250).

The curious thing is that in newer games the HD4890 surpasses most of the time it's competitor (and can change places with the 285).

 

[dionysus]

With my q6600 suddenly starting to run at 90C for no apparent reason, and my desire to upgrade at some point this year. I went ahead and pulled the trigger. I held off on a SSD though as the prices are still too outrageous. (Not to mention I just bought a house and $5,000 worth of fucking wooden blinds.) I also couldn't afford a 1080P monitor yet either. So I will have quite a bit of overkill on my 1680x1050 for the next 6 months.

i7 920
XFX HD-489A-ZDFC Radeon HD 4890 1GB
6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 OCZ
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD4P LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

When I get some money again. I will be getting an SSD and a 23" 1080P monitor.

 

[MWS Natural]

I saw many HD4890 Toxic doing 1045Mhz core / 5000 memory(1250).

The curious thing is that in newer games the HD4890 surpasses most of the time it's competitor (and can change places with the 285).

Meh I doubt many can OC to that w/o errors. Most people just OC the card, run a few minutes in furmark then call it stable. I run my tests in OCCT which test stability and digitally shows you errors. Anything over 975mhz and I get major errors which most don't even test for. Both standard cards are equal in my eyes with the Sapphire versions being superior to both.