Support NeoGAF

[Red]

Crunched, if money is no object, this is what you want prolly: http://www.bestcovery.com/node/18750?whybest=1&best=12510

It's quiet and chilltastic. The sounds you mention in the other thread could be the slow death of your case fans, but I'm actually not familiar with the particular noises at all. If you manage to lower the temps and the noises are less frequent or stop, you'll know.

Thanks, man. You've been a huge help. I ordered the NC2000, looks like it's a better fit than the 1000. Gonna have to pick up some extra hours at work to cover all these costs :lol

Oh well, it's the price I pay I guess.

 

[Firestorm]

My girlfriend is finally giving up on her old socket 939 based PC, but unfortunately, there really are no easy options when it comes to upgrading one of those. Fuck the processors.

So anyways, she's decided she wants to spend around $1000 on a new PC, but she, nor I, have the time to put the thing together right now. We're in the middle of a move and new jobs, freelance, etc.

I have never used any, but does anyone have any good suggestions for pre-built PCs? I really have no idea where to look.

Antec Sonata III Black ATX 16IN Mid Tower Quiet Case 3X5.25 2X3.5 4X3.5IN 500W 120MM Fan
Intel Core i5 750 Quad Core Processor Lynnfield LGA1156 2.66GHZ 8MB Cache Retail Box
XFX Radeon HD 5870 850MHZ 1GB GDDR5 4.8GHZ 2XDVI HDMI Display Port DIRECTX11 PCI-E Video Card
Gigabyte P55-UD3R ATX LGA1156 P55 DDR3 2PCI-E 4PCI SATA2 RAID Sound GLAN Motherboard
OCZ Gold OCZ3G1600LV4GK 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR3-1600 PC3-12800 CL 8-8-8-24 Dual Channel Memory Kit
Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB 7200RPM 32MB Dual Proc 3.5IN SATA Hard Drive OEM 5YR Mfg Warranty
LG GH22NS50 Black 22X SATA DVD Writer OEM
PC Assembly and Testing with 1 Year Limited NCIX System Warranty (PRE-CONFIG WIN. OS If Purchased)

Total: $1084.83 + shipping. The 5870 is because their only 5850 is out of stock. NCIX's US site does not price match. There will be a sale tomorrow which hopefully cuts costs.

This is a gaming computer though. Much cheaper if she doesn't game.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

I have an Asus P5N32-E SLI Plus mobo. Can I upgrade to an i7 860 and 5870, or is my mobo incompatiable?

?

 

[Firestorm]

?

i7 unsupported. 5850 is fine.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

i7 unsupported. 5850 is fine.

But not the 5870?

 

[Firestorm]

But not the 5870?

oops you said 5870. Yeah that's fine.

 

[Hawkian]

But not the 5870?

As far as I know, if your board can accept a card in the same "line" or "generation" as another, the other card will work fine too (though larger coolers can make a physical space problem).

I'm gonna have to wait til tomorrow for that post on my rig, got caught up optimizing and now need sleeeeeeep.

 

[Binabik15]

Nice setup.
Well maybe have a look at this case if you can find it there http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=289&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=63
it has a shorter height with a similar layout to that CM360 but people have been able to put a 4870X2 in there http://www.hardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1133290&page=130
and it looks simple too :]

NEVER place your pc next to a sub! the magnetic field it emits can screw your system. Had a friend who kept it next to his pc (smaller sub than yours) and he fried his mobo,cpu and vidcard in one go. My mate who had to fix it was completely puzzled how he did it. I know they magnetically shield speakers, but heard it is rather hard with subs.

Think any pci wifi card is suitable and leaves less stuff hanging around.

That is still a good cpu today (Great to OC too) and any of those cards will wok fine. Just depends what resolution he will be running and how much does he want to spend. Here the 4890 is almost half the price of a 5850 so is still pretty good bang for your buck.

The case is still 2 cm to high.

Looks like I´ll have to go with the red-headed stepchild route D:

The PS360 isn´t bothered by the sub, though, so pc are just pussies :lol

But nice to hear that my brother won´t need a new cpu. But now he´s asking if it would also run a 5850. He´s so loaded. Not.

:lol

He has a 1050 monitor, so that´s what he´d run, right?

 

[Minsc]

As far as I know, if your board can accept a card in the same "line" or "generation" as another, the other card will work fine too (though larger coolers can make a physical space problem).

I'm gonna have to wait til tomorrow for that post on my rig, got caught up optimizing and now need sleeeeeeep.

I thought it had nothing to do of the sort. A PCI-E slot takes a PCI-E card, and that's that. If you have one, you're all set, and if not, then no. It's not that simple?

 

[Romance Pie]

The case is still 2 cm to high.

Looks like I´ll have to go with the red-headed stepchild route D:

The PS360 isn´t bothered by the sub, though, so pc are just pussies :lol

But nice to hear that my brother won´t need a new cpu. But now he´s asking if it would also run a 5850. He´s so loaded. Not.

:lol

He has a 1050 monitor, so that´s what he´d run, right?

anus that it won't fit :/
I think the rule of thumb is 2 feet away (just paranoid from invisible rays D: ), plus you have those thick pieces of wood next to your consoles that would help.

Well your brother will be fine with a 4890, or even a 4870 if his budget won't stretch that far.

 

[jakonovski]

Yowza, rumor has it that Nvidia's new GF100 GPUs won't have tessellation hardware, and thus will not be true dx11!

Does anyone have confirmation of this?

 

[Salaadin]

Does this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215&cm_re=154220-_-19-115-215-_-Product

Come with the thermal paste pre-applied. It says heatsink and fan included but nothing about paste. I just need to know if I should grab some before it gets here.

Thanks.

 

[Hazaro]

Does this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215&cm_re=154220-_-19-115-215-_-Product

Come with the thermal paste pre-applied. It says heatsink and fan included but nothing about paste. I just need to know if I should grab some before it gets here.

Thanks.

Yup, it comes pre-applied on the base. Make sure you don't mess the installation up the first time and to remove the thin plastic on the cooler.
Aftermarket paste and a good reseat usually will drop temps by a few C if you are interested. I recommend ICD7 if you can get it. Better than AS5, non conductive, non-capacitive, and made from 97% diamond. I also use it as a polisher.
MX-2 is also great, but not made from diamonds

I thought it had nothing to do of the sort. A PCI-E slot takes a PCI-E card, and that's that. If you have one, you're all set, and if not, then no. It's not that simple?

Yup. There are two revision currently out.

PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0
2.0 has double the bandwidth, but this only matters in term of $260 and up graphics cards. I can't remember the impact so far, but it's not that much iirc.

The other thing to check is x__ (1,4,8,16) bandwidth for other cards. A capture card, sound card, or other might need a certain bandwidth (1,4,8,16).

 

[Salaadin]

Yup, it comes pre-applied on the base. Make sure you don't mess the installation up the first time and to remove the thin plastic on the cooler.

Perfect. Thanks a lot

 

[Hawkian]

I thought it had nothing to do of the sort. A PCI-E slot takes a PCI-E card, and that's that. If you have one, you're all set, and if not, then no. It's not that simple?

Yup. There are two revision currently out.

PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0
2.0 has double the bandwidth, but this only matters in term of $260 and up graphics cards. I can't remember the impact so far, but it's not that much iirc.

The other thing to check is x__ (1,4,8,16) bandwidth for other cards. A capture card, sound card, or other might need a certain bandwidth (1,4,8,16).

Not to mention the discrepancies that can arise from power supplies. My dad's mobo in a case with a 300W power supply has a PCI-Express slot which is fine for accommodating his 7900LE, but it doesn't have a single 6-pin PCI-E connector, let alone the two necessary for a modern 200-series card or the four needed for an SLI setup using the above (like the one I just installed ).

 

[spazzfish]

Yup, it comes pre-applied on the base. Make sure you don't mess the installation up the first time and to remove the thin plastic on the cooler.
Aftermarket paste and a good reseat usually will drop temps by a few C if you are interested. I recommend ICD7 if you can get it. Better than AS5, non conductive, non-capacitive, and made from 97% diamond. I also use it as a polisher.
MX-2 is also great, but not made from diamonds

Yup. There are two revision currently out.

PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0
2.0 has double the bandwidth, but this only matters in term of $260 and up graphics cards. I can't remember the impact so far, but it's not that much iirc.

The other thing to check is x__ (1,4,8,16) bandwidth for other cards. A capture card, sound card, or other might need a certain bandwidth (1,4,8,16).

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/

 

[Hawkian]

Those benchmarks go a long way toward confirming that there is little difference between running on a 8x or 16x link, even with a cutting-edge card.

 

[Hazaro]

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/

Awesome, thank you.

 

[Flib]

My headset (a basic plantronics set) died last night during a heated game of L4D, and I need to buy a new one. Does anyone have any recs? I'm sort of between the Razer Cacharias and the Logitech g35 7.1 (though I'm not sure if the 7.1 is worth the cost differential).

Any thoughts?

 

[Firestorm]

My headset (a basic plantronics set) died last night during a heated game of L4D, and I need to buy a new one. Does anyone have any recs? I'm sort of between the Razer Cacharias and the Logitech g35 7.1 (though I'm not sure if the 7.1 is worth the cost differential).

Any thoughts?

I'd get the Logitech almost purely because I dislike the fuzzy earpiece of the Razer headphones. I have the Razer Piranha and I'm not a big fan.

 

[Flib]

The Plantronics I was using had fuzzy earpieces, I can deal with that. I'm leaning towards the Logitech at this point, but I haven't been able to try either of these sets out. Or if I'm completely missing some other amazing headset, I'd love to know that too.

 

[Diablohead]

HAHA so my 2nd replaced PSU blew up again yesterday as I was just getting into Aion, about the same time gap as the first psu (3 months) and it died the game way by what seems to be an overheat problem, but the room is cool and everything else in the case is fairly cold. Shit PSU is shit.

So while on the phone to them they agreed to replace it again or pay the difference and get a much better psu, at the time or odering my pc I thought their 500w "eagle" would have been fine but it's a shit psu one of the worst I ever owned especially when they both die in the same time frame.

So yeah £22 later and they are sending out a 700w psu of a name I can't remember, pain in the arse but oh well you learn from experiance.

 

[Firestorm]

HAHA so my 2nd replaced PSU blew up again yesterday as I was just getting into Aion, about the same time gap as the first psu (3 months) and it died the game way by what seems to be an overheat problem, but the room is cool and everything else in the case is fairly cold. Shit PSU is shit.

So while on the phone to them they agreed to replace it again or pay the difference and get a much better psu, at the time or odering my pc I thought their 500w "eagle" would have been fine but it's a shit psu one of the worst I ever owned especially when they both die in the same time frame.

So yeah £22 later and they are sending out a 700w psu of a name I can't remember, pain in the arse but oh well you learn from experiance.

Stop using no-name PSUs?

 

[Hawkian]

They're really hit or miss. I had a Xion 700W and it was a workhorse and is still running strong after 5 years, but I know at least one other person with a noname 700w that died within 30 days. It's definitely best to just stick with trusted brands, PSUs are the single component most prone to failure in a PC.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

How is the Q6600 now? If I get a 5870 to accompany my Q6600 will the CPU be the bottleneck?

 

[Firestorm]

How is the Q6600 now? If I get a 5870 to accompany my Q6600 will the CPU be the bottleneck?

Nope. CPU is still great. You could overclock it if you'd like as well.

 

[Swag]

My headset (a basic plantronics set) died last night during a heated game of L4D, and I need to buy a new one. Does anyone have any recs? I'm sort of between the Razer Cacharias and the Logitech g35 7.1 (though I'm not sure if the 7.1 is worth the cost differential).

Any thoughts?

I got the G35 with my computer, it's ok. VERY comfortable I've once worn it for about 5 hours straight and I didn't have any headaches or uncomfortaility at all. The customisable G keys on the side of the headset are cool too they can be customised to work with various multimedia programs (Itunes Winamp WMP Ventrilo etc). It has a somewhat decent noise cancelling feature although it's not as good as some other headsets I've tried.

It does have a couple weird problems though, there is a high pitched sound that plays from the right side of the headset when the mic is up and open in a program that uses the mic ( Happens whenever I'm in a L4D match or whenever I'm running HoN / Ventrilo ) it's not noticeable when you have sound playing. There is also a weird crackling sound that happens whenever a long deep bass tone is played (VERY ANNOYING when listening to music)

As for the surround sound, I'm not exactly experienced in differentiating from good / bad surround, but it seems to sound ok in games that support it. At other times though it just plays sounds from all the speakers at the same time, for the most part it works ok. If your willing to drop the money on the g35 I'd go for it, haven't owned / tried the Cacharias though.

 

[Flib]

Thanks for the reply. That hissing and crackling is a bit worrisome. How is the mic quality?

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Nope. CPU is still great. You could overclock it if you'd like as well.

Thanks, just going to open up my PC and measure to see if the 5870 will fit. If so then I'm off to buy a 5870 .

 

[snap0212]

Okay guys, I'm thinking about getting a new PC. Finally. Since I don't have that much money and I don't want to build it myself, I thought about getting one from Dell. I think those are the important parts...

Processors: Intel® Core™ 2 Quad-Core Q8300 Processor (2.50GHz, 4MB cache, 1333MHz FSB)

Video Cards:nVidia GeForce GT220 1,024 MB

Memory: 6.144 MB Dual-Channel DDR2

Am I going to be okay with this? Can I play games on this machine? If so, is it going to be a good experience?

 

[Firestorm]

Okay guys, I'm thinking about getting a new PC. Finally. Since I don't have that much money and I don't want to build it myself, I thought about getting one from Dell. I think those are the important parts...

Processors: Intel® Core™ 2 Quad-Core Q8300 Processor (2.50GHz, 4MB cache, 1333MHz FSB)

Video Cards:nVidia GeForce GT220 1,024 MB

Memory: 6.144 MB Dual-Channel DDR2

Am I going to be okay with this? Can I play games on this machine? If so, is it going to be a good experience?

How much money?

 

[Hawkian]

Okay guys, I'm thinking about getting a new PC. Finally. Since I don't have that much money and I don't want to build it myself, I thought about getting one from Dell. I think those are the important parts...

Processors: Intel® Core™ 2 Quad-Core Q8300 Processor (2.50GHz, 4MB cache, 1333MHz FSB)

Video Cards:nVidia GeForce GT220 1,024 MB

Memory: 6.144 MB Dual-Channel DDR2

Am I going to be okay with this? Can I play games on this machine? If so, is it going to be a good experience?

Hmmmm I believe you mean 6.144 GB

What's your budget? I'd personally switch out each of those for a not-much-more-expensive-but-much-higher-performance equivalent.

 

[Diablohead]

Stop using no-name PSUs?

i certainty know that now that i'm typing off a tiny 9" laptop with a tiny keyboard and as much processing power as an electric toothbrush.

The entire computer is covered for 3 years but checking dinopc's website again today I am rather surprised they still sell the same psu in their custom choices, if I knew more about custom builds at the time I would have gone the more expensive route when I had the chance. I have brought new power supplies in the past for my older computers and they been bog standard but never faulty, it makes me wonder how cheap these 500w eagle's really are.

 

[SapientWolf]

Okay guys, I'm thinking about getting a new PC. Finally. Since I don't have that much money and I don't want to build it myself, I thought about getting one from Dell. I think those are the important parts...

Processors: Intel® Core™ 2 Quad-Core Q8300 Processor (2.50GHz, 4MB cache, 1333MHz FSB)

Video Cards:nVidia GeForce GT220 1,024 MB

Memory: 6.144 MB Dual-Channel DDR2

Am I going to be okay with this? Can I play games on this machine? If so, is it going to be a good experience?

The processor is okay but that video card is hot garbage. I don't know exactly what Dell charges these days (I'm thinking around $1000), but I bet you can build a Windows 7 / i5/5850/6GB DDR3 machine for the same price and get an insane performance upgrade.

But if you're gonna buy prebuilt at the very least go with an i5. It's not that much more and you can always upgrade your video card and OS later.

 

[edible_candle]

Alright GAF, a friend of mine is planning on building a new pc soon because his is dying. And I'm supposed to help him. Here's his requirements:

Budget of ~$500
Main uses: Rendering, Inventor, autocad, other engineering programs
A quad-core cpu would be preferable, but only if it works with the budget
At least 4 GB of ram
Gaming isn't a priority, but doesn't want an integrated card either
Will be getting Windows 7 for free through his school

So any basic ideas to get us started would be much appreciated.

 

[DyTonic]

I need a new cheap monitor...

 

[Firestorm]

I need a new cheap monitor...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236059

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

Hi guys,

I bought a new HP desktop about 7 months ago. It was a pretty good deal if you ask me, 21 in HD monitor, new scanner/printer, Quad core processor, 5 gigs of ram and a I believe it was 500 gig hard drive for 900 bucks. I just didn't feel up to the task of updating my old computer or building a new one.

Lately it has been running sloooooowww. I figure it is because I only have about 5 gigs free of hard drive space. I plan on getting this 1TB HP hard drive and transferring all my files. Then doing a fresh install of Vista.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/store/pr...d=in_r329_personalization/browse1/landing_PDP

Is there anything I need to know about these removeable hard drives? I don't plan on taking it out too often. Might be once I put the hard drive in, its there to stay in the computer. But are they more prone to failing or loseing data or anything?

I feel the 5 gigs of ram still suits me just fine.

I do need to update the graphics card though, i know its a nvidia in it, but i dont believe its that great of one. I really want to play borderlands on pretty good or even really high settings. What graphics card for price would be my best bet? Also that could work with power supply and fit in the HP case.

I'm not lookin to spend more than maybe 230 on a graphics card.

 

[Salaadin]

If I hook my monitor to my PC by HDMI, will I get sound thru it or is there a cable that has to be run from the motherboard outputs to the input on the monitor? If so, what cable will I need?

Im thinking Id need another cable since the mobo is handling the audio and the gfx card is handling the video but I can be completely wrong.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236059 Monitor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128400 Motherboard

EDIT: Also, this antec 900 case has 4 fans in it, each with their own 4 prong connectors. These look to connect right to the PSU but does it matter which of them I use? Theres a whole slew of wires coming from the PSU and some of them look to fit the fans perfectly.

 

[octopusman]

I'm looking to buy a good graphics card for under $100, any suggestions?

 

[brain_stew]

My headset (a basic plantronics set) died last night during a heated game of L4D, and I need to buy a new one. Does anyone have any recs? I'm sort of between the Razer Cacharias and the Logitech g35 7.1 (though I'm not sure if the 7.1 is worth the cost differential).

Any thoughts?

Buy proper headphones (like some Sennheisers) and use a clip on mic. "Surround sound" headsets are universally horrible, and don't even deliver a decent surround experience. You can get much better positional audio with CMSS 3D headphone or DD headphone and set of decent stereo cans.

 

[brain_stew]

Okay guys, I'm thinking about getting a new PC. Finally. Since I don't have that much money and I don't want to build it myself, I thought about getting one from Dell. I think those are the important parts...

Processors: Intel® Core™ 2 Quad-Core Q8300 Processor (2.50GHz, 4MB cache, 1333MHz FSB)

Video Cards:nVidia GeForce GT220 1,024 MB

Memory: 6.144 MB Dual-Channel DDR2

Am I going to be okay with this? Can I play games on this machine? If so, is it going to be a good experience?

Its terrible for games, low clockspeed CPU and a garbage video card.

If you can't build your own then spec up a rig on NCIX and pay the $50 construction fee and get all the benefits of a home build without any of the fiddly parts.

How is the Q6600 now? If I get a 5870 to accompany my Q6600 will the CPU be the bottleneck?

OC to 3ghz+ (any Q6600 will manage this) and you're laughing.

 

[dustytruly]

is there like a layout of a just a normal normal computer build?... i don't really know where to start on building my own PC but my dad wants to buy a new one... and i suggested we build our own...

no one in my family is an insane computer gamer... just casual use and the odd game...

and my dad also said he had the budget of $1200... but i told him we could make one for about half that with everything a normal family computer needs.

if anyone has a link that just offers suggestions for a bit lower spec'd computers (but still current) that would be perfect for me i think...

 

[Flib]

Buy proper headphones (like some Sennheisers) and use a clip on mic. "Surround sound" headsets are universally horrible, and don't even deliver a decent surround experience. You can get much better positional audio with CMSS 3D headphone or DD headphone and set of decent stereo cans.

I was considering getting the Sennheiser pc161...Don't know if I want to drop the cash on a top end Sennheiser.

I also have a laptop (it's a high end gaming laptop), so CMSS 3D isn't an option.

 

[Firestorm]

is there like a layout of a just a normal normal computer build?... i don't really know where to start on building my own PC but my dad wants to buy a new one... and i suggested we build our own...

no one in my family is an insane computer gamer... just casual use and the odd game...

and my dad also said he had the budget of $1200... but i told him we could make one for about half that with everything a normal family computer needs.

if anyone has a link that just offers suggestions for a bit lower spec'd computers (but still current) that would be perfect for me i think...

If he's not a gamer, just buy a Dell? Building your own is for gamers really. And HTPC users since I don't think stores even sell that.

 

[brain_stew]

is there like a layout of a just a normal normal computer build?... i don't really know where to start on building my own PC but my dad wants to buy a new one... and i suggested we build our own...

no one in my family is an insane computer gamer... just casual use and the odd game...

and my dad also said he had the budget of $1200... but i told him we could make one for about half that with everything a normal family computer needs.

if anyone has a link that just offers suggestions for a bit lower spec'd computers (but still current) that would be perfect for me i think...

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17571/2

But change the GPU to this:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17571/2

It will absolutely go way above and beyond your requirements (it'll play any game at high/max settings @ ~ 1680x1050) but it still under half your budget. They're all quality, reliable parts, so upgrading in the future will be much more pleasant than with a pre-built machine and you're not locked out of nice things like OCing either.


If you're willing to venture into OCing, then you might want to save yourself $20 and pick up this budget quad core:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103706

I wouldn't really recommend it at stock, but its a great clocker and at say 3.2ghz, its a great little processor. If this is a machine you plan to use for a lengthy period of time then bagging a quad core might not be a bad idea.

 

[brain_stew]

I was considering getting the Sennheiser pc161...Don't know if I want to drop the cash on a top end Sennheiser.

I also have a laptop (it's a high end gaming laptop), so CMSS 3D isn't an option.

Well it is if you buy a USB soundcard, either way, the surround sound of those "5.1 headphones" really is just unbelievably terrible, they're just a complete waste.

The PC161's aren't proper headphones, a pair of HD 555s really aren't all that much pricier (they're actually cheaper here in the UK) and will be a compeltely different experience. Just pick up a cheap clip on mic off Ebay or buy the Zalman one which many like and away you go.

Honestly, one of the biggest selling points of the HD 555s to gamers is just how damn comfy they are. They go around your ears, instead of squishing your ears to your head, and it makes wearing them for a prolonged period so much more comfortable.

I'm looking to buy a good graphics card for under $100, any suggestions?

4770.

 

[beje]

I'm looking to buy a good graphics card for under $100, any suggestions?

Look for an Nvidia GTS250, it's around 95-120 bucks (depends on RAM and assembler) and is just a 9800GTX+ rebranded, smaller (both chipset and whole card) and much less power-demanding. More than enough to move almost everything you throw at it at 1080p and max settings.

Take into account that heatsink models (Asus, Gigabyte) , though smaller than brick models (Zotac, XFX) have a less efficient cooling as they don't blow most of the air out through you back PCI holes like bricks do.

The ATI counterpart is the 4850/4870.

 

[brain_stew]

Is there anything I need to know about these removeable hard drives?
.

Yeah, don't buy one! :lol

Installing an internal HDD is literally as simple as plugging it in and tightening a couple of screws, and its almost always a much better option.

 

[Flib]

Well it is if you buy a USB soundcard, either way, the surround sound of those "5.1 headphones" really is just unbelievably terrible, they're just a complete waste.

The PC161's aren't proper headphones, a pair of HD 555s really aren't all that much pricier (they're actually cheaper here in the UK) and will be a compeltely different experience. Just pick up a cheap clip on mic off Ebay or buy the Zalman one which many like and away you go.

Honestly, one of the biggest selling points of the HD 555s to gamers is just how damn comfy they are. They go around your ears, instead of squishing your ears to your head, and it makes wearing them for a prolonged period so much more comfortable.

I tend to agree, but the reviews for the g35 (which is 7.1) are just so universally strong. I can get the HD-555's for the same price though, so I may look into that. I had a friend in college who had them, and I do love them.