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Official NHL Off Season Thread

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Barrage

Barrage

Member
Huh. I picture you as the kind of guy who gets what he wants and leaves as quick as he can, like...Well, pretty much every player on the Oilers.
 
M

Mike Works

Member
pops619 said:
The Pens underachieved last year.
Click to expand...
Gee, you don't say? I don't think there's ever been a team in NHL history that overachieved with a 58 point season.

Adding Malkin is the equivalent of adding a player as good as the best available on the free agent market. I'm talking now. Crosby and Malkin are as good as any center duo in the league. Their top six wingers are solid.
Click to expand...
Adding Malkin definitely is quite great, he's already a really good player who's only going to become great in time, he will booster Pittsburgh's offense immediatly.

Unfortunately for Pittsburgh, they've most improved their team in the one area that easily needed the least amount of improvement.

Last season, as the second worst team in the entire league (1 point better than the worst team), the Penguins scored more goals than all of these teams:

New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins
Florida Panthers
Washington Capitals
Columbus Blue Jackets
Chicago Blackhawks
St Louis Blues
Calgary Flames
Minnesota Wild

They were almost very near the middle of the league in scoring. Now lets look at the other side. Last season, the Penguins allowed fewer goals than all of these teams:

no-image-found.gif


That's right, Pittsburgh was by far the worst team in the league defensively. Now don't get me wrong, I like Marc-Andre Fleury, as he's got a lot of potential. But it's suicide being young rookie/sophmore starting goalie of a team whose defensive pairings are as I listed. It's so, so hard to develop when your team just ****ing sucks defensively.

Now do I think Pittsburgh will be a better team this year? Yes. Do I think they'll allow fewer goals, mostly in part to Michell Terrien's stricted style of coaching compared to their previous "coach"? Yes.

But I'm sorry, Pittsburgh is just not that good a team yet. Could they make the playoffs in 2 years? Yes. However I picked 3 just to be safe, as Staal should be in his sophmore season by then, and hopefully they'll have acquired some better defensive assets.

It's so easy to say, "Oh the team had an off-season enema, we're all better now, we got rid of bad players and got defensively reliable ones". I remember hearing similar airings of joy when Hardass Therien took over the coaching reigns. "Oh, this will turn things around, he's not going to be a slack player's coach like Eddie O, he won't take losing as an acceptable position.

And then the Penguins sucked hard some more.

I don't have anything against the Penguins nor any of their fans on this forum (I always feel sympathy for Alucard because he just picks a loser every single time... poor Poland), but just lower your expectations a little. I don't have huge expectations for the Canucks because I just don't know what to expect from them as they're such an amazingly different team.

The Penguins however- save for Malkin- have made incredibly minimal changes, and they should be one of the easier teams to predict success or lack thereof based on the previous season. You can archive this post and all the others ones I've made today, but I highly doubt I'm going to be eating my words come April.

The Penguins are not a playoff team this year.
 
T

The Internet

Member
The Penguins are ****ED just by their fans reaction of possibly of not having Malkin in their lineup.


They were giving up the whole season just on the basis of Malkin not being on the roster. If Malkin being on your roster is the difference of making the playoffs or not, then there is alot of addresses needed to be made to the lineup.

*Remembers Shawn Horcoff going through 5 Pens players for his hatrick goal.*
 
P

pops619

Member
Unfortunately for Pittsburgh, they've most improved their team in the one area that easily needed the least amount of improvement.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely wrong there. Malkin's going to have as big of an impact on defense as he will on offense. He's already a strong defensive player and a strong penalty killer. That he's on a line different than Crosby's is also significant. Last year, for most of the year the Pens had one good line (Crosby's) and three zeros. Malkin instantly gives them a legit second threat. Sometimes, the best defense is a good offense. Because the Pens will actually have possession of the puck more, they'll face less chances against.

You're also wrong because the Pens have been addressing their biggest weaknesses all offseason. They were a terrible penalty killing team last year. Again, Malkin is a strong penalty killer. Moore and Eaton were very good on the PK last year. Talbot will be back, and he was pretty much the only guy that did a good job shorthanded while he was here. For that matter, Ruutu and Ekman are probably better PK'ers than many of the bums we sent out there last year (*cough*ShaneEndicott*cough*). They're going to cut 20-30 goals just because the PK will be so much better.

Like I said, they addressed other major areas of weakness. Yes, they were bad defensively last year, and that was a major reason why they were so bad, but it's not that cut and dry. Why were they so bad defensively? One reason is they were not a good skating team. Every player they added this summer is a good skater. They were a bunch of softies last year. Ruutu and Petrovicky will play physical. Malkin's a tough kid himself. Moore isn't necessarily physical, but he's a hard working player. They're going to be much harder to play against. They were not hard to play against last year.

And defense isn't just defensemen. The Pens had many weak defensive forwards. Moore, Malkin, and Ekman are all considered to be good defensive forwards. Eaton's a solid defensive defenseman. Orpik and Whitney should improve. Welch is an improvement.

To say that the Pens made minimal changes is completely off-base. Half their forwards are new faces. Two thirds of the D is new. They made significant changes and didn't lose anything worthwhile in the process. They replaced bums like Endicott, Surovy, Rita, Nordgren, and Ouellet (though he'll still probably make it as a reserve) with an already great player in Malkin plus solid guys like Eckman, Moore, Ruutu, etc.

They're going to be a completely different team this season. Believe me, I missed all of two games last year, I saw that mess first hand all year. I know they were terrible last year. But I saw the strides they made by the end once they started to field a half decent lineup, and I've seen that every move they've made has addressed what was really wrong with them. I don't believe they're going to be a strong defensive team, but I believe they'll be way better than they were last year. And I believe led by Crosby and Malkin, they're going to be one of the highest scoring teams in the league. That'll be enough to, at the very least, keep them in it for most of the season. If they have bad injury problems, all bets are off.
 
P

pops619

Member
I don't understand why the probability that the Pens will much, much better this season outrages and amuses so many of you. I feel I have pretty well-reasoned arguments for why they'll be better. We'll see when these teams take the ice.
 
M

Mike Works

Member
pops619 said:
You're absolutely wrong there. Malkin's going to have as big of an impact on defense as he will on offense. He's already a strong defensive player and a strong penalty killer. That he's on a line different than Crosby's is also significant. Last year, for most of the year the Pens had one good line (Crosby's) and three zeros. Malkin instantly gives them a legit second threat. Sometimes, the best defense is a good offense. Because the Pens will actually have possession of the puck more, they'll face less chances against.
Click to expand...
The best defense is a good offense? So how did Pittsburgh's good offense work out for them last season? What's that? They were the worst team in the league defensively... but now that they have Malkin they'll get better defensively through him scoring and backchecking more than the previous center? Come on. Have they improved defensively overall when it comes to their forwards? Sure. Have they improved enough that it'll make a significant difference to a team that had the worst goals against stat in the entire league last season? No. You act like the entire team has been replaced with a Michael Peca / Ilya Kovulchuk hybrid.

You're also wrong because the Pens have been addressing their biggest weaknesses all offseason. They were a terrible penalty killing team last year. Again, Malkin is a strong penalty killer. Moore and Eaton were very good on the PK last year. Talbot will be back, and he was pretty much the only guy that did a good job shorthanded while he was here. For that matter, Ruutu and Ekman are probably better PK'ers than many of the bums we sent out there last year (*cough*ShaneEndicott*cough*). They're going to cut 20-30 goals just because the PK will be so much better.
Click to expand...
Ruutu will cause more penalties than he will kill.

I've already stated that the Penguins will be an improved team this season and a playoff team in 3, but not this year. You disagree. There's really not much else to this conversation.
 
P

pops619

Member
The best defense is a good offense? So how did Pittsburgh's good offense work out for them last season? What's that? They were the worst team in the league defensively... but now that they have Malkin they'll get better defensively through him scoring and backchecking more than the previous center? Come on. Have they improved defensively overall when it comes to their forwards? Sure. Have they improved enough that it'll make a significant difference to a team that had the worst goals against stat in the entire league last season? No. You act like the entire team has been replaced with a Michael Peca / Ilya Kovulchuk hybrid.
Click to expand...

I never said the best defense is a good offense. I said sometimes it is. You'd have to agree, having a good offense that can control the puck lessens the strain on the D, yes? The Pens played in their own end a great deal last year because they had nobody outside of Crosby who could generate much offense.

The Pens didn't have a good offense last year. They were in the bottom half of the league overall and went through a lot of stretches where they scored little. Like I've said, aside from Crosby, they pretty much had nothing, which is where Malkin really helps. The only point in the season in which the offense was any good was the last 20 games or so, which interestingly enough, was the only stretch of the season where they consistently played decent hockey.

I don't get why this has to be so heated. So many of the people in this thread just want to bully the "poor Pens fans." I'm up for good natured debate. Obviously, a lot of people here find it amusing that I think the Pens will be good. I find it more amusing people have so much hate and try to tell me about my own team, as if I didn't closely watch them through several dreadful seasons recently.
 
M

Mike Works

Member
How is this heated? I've been discussing everything with a pretty level head, as I don't have anything against the Penguins nor it's fans.

I think you're trying to develop a persecution complex that just isn't here. Lets see a list of these "so many people" that spent the last year bullying the poor little pens fans. Because I don't think the Penguins are substancially improved, I suddenly have "hate" for the team?

Don't drag this debate down for absolutely no reason. There's mud slinging from all sides of the fences when the season is on, and I can very well tell you that Pittsburgh was not one of the most berated teams/fanbases on GAF.

It's kind of hard to hate a team that was so abysmal last season, so I really don't know where you're getting this from.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
pops619 said:
Vancouver's lineup looks worse than Pittsburgh's
Click to expand...
You really should be taking a more guarded approach, like Alucard. There was plenty of hype last September for the Penguins and look what happened. That's not to say that the Penguins are going to be a disaster or even necessarily bad, but what we do know is that, on paper, Vancouver absolutely has a better lineup than Pittsburgh. Both teams lack depth, though, I'd say.
 
S

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
pops619 said:
You guys pick on the Pens so much, as if you've got such an amazing team yourselves.
Click to expand...
We're not picking on the pens, it's just that all you penguin guys have been beside yourselves that you're the best team ever since the offseason began. We're just trying to put you in your place, calm you guys down a bit. It's for your own good.
 
A

Alucard

Banned
malkinpens_55268.jpg

Woot. Too bad that his family has been getting harassed and is considering moving because of their son's antics though. Anyway, I'm glad that this is finally settled. Welcome, Evgeni.

Mike, overconfidence and boasting is not something I wear very well and I realize that the teams I support aren't the cream of the crop right now. Soooo, I'm more about being realistic and optimistic, rather than thinking that all of the Pens' problems have been solved. I hope we do well, and have little doubt that we'll be an improvement over last season, but it's the degree of improvement that I question until the team actually hits the ice. Our October is looking pretty scary with some hefty competition like the Flyers, Rangers, and Canes. Eep. Other teams have also improved their lineups.

But yeah, go Pens go. :) Can't wait for the pre-season.
 
K

Kingpen

Member
sefskillz said:
We're not picking on the pens, it's just that all you penguin guys have been beside yourselves that you're the best team ever since the offseason began. We're just trying to put you in your place, calm you guys down a bit. It's for your own good.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here has been overly boastful about the pens this year... Myself and others on the board were overly excited last year with the dream team on paper, but the nuclear explosion we got on the ice for an actual product last year. I stuck my foot in my mouth last year and learned from it.

I shut my trap this year.... I am really excited to watch our young players this year though... Malkin is finally in the fold!
 
F

Fifty

Member
Nice. How often has a team had two years in a row where they've drafted a superstar player? I can't remember anything that's topped (on paper at least) Crosby..and the next year Malkin.
 
S

soundwave05

Member
Fifty said:
Nice. How often has a team had two years in a row where they've drafted a superstar player? I can't remember anything that's topped (on paper at least) Crosby..and the next year Malkin.
Click to expand...

Well not too many teams have sucked that badly for several consecutive seasons. Also I believe Malkin was actually drafted prior to Crosby. Jordan Staal is who they drafted this year.
 
A

Alucard

Banned
Our drafting has gone Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal. Can't wait 'til Staal hits the ice in a couple of years too. Woot.
 
dem

dem

Member
Rookie camps starting this week

Training camps start next week

12 days till preseason

1 month till the season starts

:D
 
C

calder

Member
Fifty said:
Nice. How often has a team had two years in a row where they've drafted a superstar player? I can't remember anything that's topped (on paper at least) Crosby..and the next year Malkin.
Click to expand...
Sens had a pretty good run there - sure a few of them busted and most didn't reach full potential but they at least got something for most of the ones they let go (Yashin and Berard trades both brought back more than they gave up, although you could argue the Berard trade a bit imo). Being mediocre for a half dozen seasons will kill your team, but being omg****awful for a few years will get you a few consecutive picks in the "can't miss" zone at the top of the draft. Some years the top players available are good but don't project as superstars, and yeah some times you get a consensus #1 overall guy who turns into Alex Daigle, but it's tough to draft in the top 3 for more than a couple of years in a row without hitting a homerun.

Now, drafting in the top 10 for most of a decade and getting almost nothing in return takes real skill. Doug Risebrough/Al Coates/Craig Button type skill.
 
M

Mike Works

Member
The Canucks have been fairly inconsistent with their top draft picks... the list isn't too bad, but considering we're dealing with first round here, there aren't too many brazen superstars:

1988 - Trevor Linden (!)
1989 - Jason Hertner (Hertner? I damn well killed her!)
1990 - Petr Nedved, Shawn Antowski (too bad we didn't draft odjick in the first, i could've called this the good, the bad, and the ugly)
1991 - Alex Stojanov (heeerreeee nazzy nazzy nazzy)
1992 - Libor Polasek (so bad he doesn't even have a Wiki entry)
1993 - Mike Wilson (huh)
1994 - Mattias Ohlund (!)
1995 - none
1996 - Josh Holden (he'll come around!)
1997 - Brad Ference (see Josh Holden)
1998 - Bryan Allen :)/)
1999 - Daniel Sedin, Henrik Sedin :)D)
2000 - Nathan Smith (how's Ference doing?)
2001 - RJ Umberger (OH GOD LOOKOUT)
2002 - none
2003 - Ryan Kesler (any time now...)
2004 - Cory Schneider (Luongo 2!)
2005 - Luc Bourdon (luuuucccc)
2006 - Michael Grabner (Grabner? I damn well killed her!)
 
K

Kifimbo

Member
Fifty said:
Nice. How often has a team had two years in a row where they've drafted a superstar player? I can't remember anything that's topped (on paper at least) Crosby..and the next year Malkin.
Click to expand...

Quebec Nordiques !!! 3 years in a row.

1989: Mats Sundin (1st overall)
1990: Owen Nolan (1st overall)
1991: Eric Lindros (1st overall)
 
Malakhov

Malakhov

Banned
Apparently there is talks between the Habs, the devils and a third non canadian team about a trade.

But the thing is, it's from Eklund... lol

Gomez plz
 
Malakhov

Malakhov

Banned
Sitting at about 40 but that's with 2 goaltenders getting 5 millions+

They could maybe move Souray to a western team and he's UFA after this season and we will probably lose him so he can see his daughter and maybe Aebischer. I think Gainey could find a way to fit Gomez into the equation...
 
Malakhov

Malakhov

Banned
Seriously all we're missing to be a serious contender is a good #2 center who can take the #1 role in case of injuries.

Samsonov/Kovalev/Ryder/Higgins is a nice pair of top two lines wingers, add youngsters like Kostitsyn and Perezhogin and good third liners like Plekanec and Johnsson and we're a good team.
 
S

Sandman42

Member
People better get signing soon. Carter, Allison, Bondra, and Leetch are all still out there. Then you have the lower level talent guys who can still make an impact like, Perreault, Dvorak, Kavasha, Kozlov.

If they wait any longer they could end up in Europe.
 
Malakhov

Malakhov

Banned
Carter should stop asking for an obscene amount of money wich he's not even deserving.

The rest will probably be resigned after the season starts after injuries and what not, some will retire and some will go play in Europe.
 
F

ForzaItalia

Banned
Sandman42 said:
People better get signing soon. Carter, Allison, Bondra, Leetch and Domi are all still out there. Then you have the lower level talent guys who can still make an impact like, Perreault, Dvorak, Kavasha, Kozlov.

If they wait any longer they could end up in Europe.
Click to expand...


Fixed.
 
Malakhov

Malakhov

Banned
Players left:

CENTERS
Jason Allison
Trevor Linden
Yanic Perreault
Jim Dowd
Andrew Cassels
Jared Aulin

WINGERS
Anson Carter
Viktor Kozlov
Radek Dvorak
Oleg Kvasha
Petr Bondra
Valeri Bure
Brian Savage
Eric Daze
Turner Stevenson
Boyd Devereaux
Scott Young
Mike Leclerc
Clarke Wilm
Aaron Gavey
Todd Harvey
Erik Rasmussen
Pierre Dagenais
Brad Larsen
Tom Fitzgerald
Tyler Wright
Nathan Perrott
Jaroslav Svoboda
Richard Park

DEFENSEMEN
Brian Leetch
Chris Therien
Jason Woolley
Cale Hulse
Bryan Marchment
John Erskine
Joel Kwiatkowski
Alexander Khavanov
Alexander Karpovtsev
Todd Simpson
Tommy Albelin
Jason Strudwick
Lyle Odelein
Igor Ulanov
Chris McAllister
Steve Poapst
Ivan Majesky
Jason Doig
Brad Brown
Jonathan Aitken

GOALIES/BACK UPS
Mike Dunham
Brian Boucher
Steve Shields
Felix Potvin
Scott Clemmensen
Maxime Ouellet

ENFORCER/FIGHTERS (or at one time were ...)
Tie Domi
Jeremy Stevenson
Ryan VandenBussche
Darren Langdon
Dan Lacouture
Kip Brennan
Dennis Bonvie
Chris Dingman
Peter Worrell
Dale Purinton
Krzysztof Oliwa
Brantt Myhres
Doug Doull
 
K

Kabuki Waq

Member
isnt Linden going back to the nucks?

i have no idea why team dont like Perrault i mean the guy is awesome for face offs. We have Belak on our team but wont pick up Perrault?


oh and i really hope Felix the cat gets picked up by some team:(
 
Barrage

Barrage

Member
I say bah to your hideous list of First Round picks, Mike. BAH I SAY! Now if you would like an example of a team with GOOD first round picks...

1988-Mike Modano(And the Holy One descended, and life was Good...)
1989-Doug Zmolek(...He was a Star for like two years...)
1990-Derian Hatcher(YEE-UH)
1991-Richard Matvichuk(This mutha****a played on the Stars for hundreds of years...Once called Gordie Howe a "rookie bitch")
1992-None
1993-Todd Harvey-Once he signed with the Oilers(BY CHOICE) was summarily dismissed from Stars history.
1994-Jason Botterill(...can't all be winners.)
1995-Jerome Iginla:)D)
1996-Richard Jackman-(Pretty decent defenceman. Can't believe we blew a fifth pick on him, though)
1997-Brendan Morrow(Hells Yeah)
1998-None
1999-None(we didn't need draft picks back then. If my memory recalls correctly, Dallas would regularly play games at a 5-on-3 disadvantage simply to challenge themselves)
2000-Steve Ott-(Good player.)
2001-Jason Bacashhihua-(I hear the Catholic church uses pronouncing his name as a new form of penance.)
2002-Martin Vagner-(The Vag just needs a litttle more time. He'll be on the main roster soon enough. I believe :( )
2003-None
2004-Mark Fistric-(This guy is gonna be a GREAT...#4 D-Man one day)
2005-Matt Niskanen( He plays Hockey,Baseball, AND Football. WHITE BO JACKSON)
2006-Ivan Vishenvsky-(I have heard him compared to Sergei Gonchar. I don't know if that's good or not.)
 
M

Mike Works

Member
Linden is going to re-sign with the Canucks if he hasn't already done so.

I can't wait for Domi to expect to get signed with the Pens and demand he play with Malkin :lol
 
S

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
cmon buffalo, the st louis rams called, they want their shitty logo back. rockin the og jerseys as their 3rds.. but i liked last years :(
 
S

Spruce Moose

Member
I've never been a fan of the Sabers logos and colors, but yeah, that new design is shit. :lol

Why do they insist that a Buffalo be part of the logo? I'd just go with a sword of somekind. Oh well.
 
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