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Official Wrestlemania 21 thread.
- Thread starter StoOgE
- Start date
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The Faceless Master
Member
face it, the match sucked more than jbl/cena.
The Faceless Master said:
no, flair alone made it better than that POS. THe problem is, DAVE was only really awesome when he was on the verge of turning on Trips.. the highlight of his push was the contract signing. He threw Trips through the table and its been downhill from there.
aparisi2274
Member
StoOgE said:
Backlash is only one month away. I am sure HHH will get it back then...
Ninja Scooter
Member
well i had nothing to do on a lazy Sunday afternoon so i tuned in to WM. It wasn't that bad, but it wasn't all that good too. The only 2 really entertaining matches were Taker/Orton and Michaels/Angle. I was hoping Orton would win and end Taker's streak. I really like him, but whats this about him being an asshole backstage? Gimme the lowdown. And wtf was with that dance Batista did during his entrance? Does he always do that? Cause if he does, he's my new favorite wrestler ever. Ok, 2nd favorite wrestler ever behind Val Venis.
Yeah, I'm quoting myself for the purpose of agreeing with myself. I think it's warranted.
As expected, two really good matches. Eddie and Rey did about everything you could expect, and while it had no buildup whatsoever they put on a good show. And then, HBK/Angle did not disappoint in the least. I had predicted an HBK win, but damnit if Angle didn't pull it off. Best Ankle Lock sequence ever, bar none. The group of guys I was watching it with were literally on their feet; it was an intense sequence that simply kicked complete and total ass. Best match of the night by FAR.
Now, I might get some flak for not including the Ladder Match, but it was literally was just musical chairs. There was no real story being told; the Tag Team Ladder Matches have exhausted all of the best spots for these things, and the best Ladder Matches are those that aren't just spotfests. Was Shelton's Ladder Offense (Clothesline/Exploder) cool? Hell yeah. But it doesn't make the match good. It wasn't terrible, it was a fun little spotfest, but calling it great is just wrong.
Now, we get to the World Championship match. Now, it was no brilliant brawl. It was never going to be. But, it had a hot enough finish with enough bleeding from HHH to tell a good story that worked in the context of the feud. For who was involved, and their abilities, it was booked well, and the right guy went over.
Next we have the match where the wrong guy went over, which places it below the above match. Taker/Orton was not terrible; in fact, it had some great spots. Chokeslam into RKO? Fantastic. Cowboy with the CAST? Second biggest pop of the night with my crowd other than Angle's victory. But the booking went awry when Taker won that match. Now, all they can do with Randy Orton is get him to sell a neck injury and bring back RNN so he doesn't have to wrestle. They won't even do that; he needed this win to remain a contender and he didn't get it. This was the wrong decision. It was a half-decent little match, but the end result was bullshit.
Since I'm not counting Akebono/Big Show as a match, next up is...Christy vs. Trish. While a shitfest of blown spots from Christy, the right person won. And, at Wrestlemania, from a Women's match, that's all I ask.
I ask more, however, out of the WWE Championship match. And frankly, they were complete and total idiots with this one. I have a great deal of respect for JBL for his ability to remain a viable heel despite sucking so hard in the ring. I respect John Cena for nothing; he is a talentless hack who won the WWE Title with literally three moves. The rest was punching and kicking. I don't give a shit if he's going to be in movies, he is not ready to hold that title unless he can wrestle. The match, even outside of the result, was everything it shouldn't have been. There was no run-ins...JBL has spent months building a stable to do run-ins...they have no other purpose! This match needed those run-ins. It also needed, you know, a story. Like, JBL really beating down Cena for a long time. Or, you know, people kicking out of finishing moves. None of this occured, because this was the laziest and most idiotic booking the WWE has seen in years. Very simply, this was the most forgettable WWE Title match in Wrestlemania History.
On the whole, the card was about what I expected. It had one fantastic match, one really good match, a good gimmick match, and then a shitload of matches that suffered from bad booking, bad workrates, and bad wrestling in general. This gives the WWE no direction from here...all this gives them is an instant classic showdown between two great superstars and two champions with no natural feuds outside of the people they beat. For shame, WWE. For shame.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Jericho, Christian and Benjamin to Smackdown!
The Faceless Master
Member
orton may be an asshole in real life, but austin is a wifebeater!
God's Hand
Banned
John Cena is a terrible wrestler. He's got a great act, but when it comes to performing in the ring, he's abysmal.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
DCX said:
Yeah, right. Piss off Vince and HHH and your push is killed. They set him up to beat UT and kill the "biggest" legend WWE has, but Randy is an ass and now he got what he deserved. Also, Randy is going to be out fo 6 months, so why in the hell have him beat UT if he is immediately out.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
God's Hand said:
I am sure they are hoping Cena will step his in-ring game up after getting the belt. I for one am happy WWE is actually giving younger workers a chance to get the ball and run with it.
Raw64life said:
Well, technically speaking.. his last 4 would be.. This year.. lost cleanly...
Last year.. where he lost.. but wasn't in the decision
XIX.. where he beat Jericho
and XIV.. which he lost.
I thought it was a good PPV.
I liked the Cena/JBL match.. the ending was just.. well abrupt
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Yep.
I missed Eddie vs Rey though
I missed Eddie vs Rey though
This was the first WWE PPV I have ever ordered. (In the past I've either seen PPVs at a friend's house, downloaded them, etc.) Not sure if it was worth $50; this was an entertaining show for the most part, but it just didn't feel like Wrestlemania should; the excitement didn't seem to be there, mostly due to the wrestlers' performances (some of them looked genuinely disappointed just being there or just seemed to lack the energy for such a big show) and the lackluster crowd reactions most of the night. Perhaps some backstage promos would have helped to have pumped up the crowd and get them energized for the matches, but there were NONE save for the JBL/HHH run-in towards the beginning of the show.
I don't like how I paid $50 for a PPV and didn't get the entire show, either. They should have shown that 30 man battle royale.
My thoughts:
-Eddie/Rey: Good way to start off the show. Good match, but not great, and it didn't further the storyline between both men one bit. (I expect Eddie to turn heel on this week's Smackdown! instead) Don't like Mysterio's new ring gear. The half-mask doesn't look that cool and Rey seemed to be having problems with it, as he was adjusting it throughout the match.
Money In The Bank Ladder Match: Benjamin stole the spotlight in this match with the T-Bone suplex off the ladder, and running up the ladder propped up onto another ladder (has that ever been done before?). I wasn't rooting for wife-cheating-asshole-Edge to win, but I'm okay with it since he will make for a fresh opponent for whichever champion he faces. Would have liked to have seen Christian win, but I knew there was zero chance of that happening. Benjamin winning would have also been awesome. This match was good, but I didn't like how the action seemed to keep shifting to just two or three guys in the ring at all times for the majority of the match.
Eugene/Hassan-Davari/Hogan: Heh, Eugene got ZERO reaction from the crowd when he came out. That's good, because his character is beyond stale despite having been out of action for a little while now, and perhaps this will send the WWE a message (I doubt it). He could be an instant hated heel if he turned on the crowd telling them his character was all an act and they were morons for believing him. Anyway, despite being even slower than usual, I still marked out for Hogan, who I knew would come out as soon as Hassan started beating up Eugene. Interesting that Eugene didn't come back into the ring to celebrate with Hogan. The crowd also popped HUGE for him; much more so than anyone else on the card. I think that says something about the current roster line-up.
Orton/Taker: Much better match than I expected. Taker especially did perhaps the best job in the ring since his return as the "Dead Man." Orton reversing the chokeslam and then trying the Tombstone was great. I'm glad Taker won, since I don't think Orton, at least at this point, should have been the one to end his WM winning streak. Plus this also makes Orton have a perfect excuse to jump to Smackdown! now and continue the feud.
Trish/Christy: We all know this "match" didn't deserve to be on a PPV, much less Wrestlemania. Horrible attempts by Christie to "wrestle." Trish managed to salvage the match as best she could, however, and I loved her making fun of Christie. Both women looked hot, which is what the WWE likely really cared about.
Angle/HBK: Great match, but seemed a little too slow for me at first. Awesome ending.
Piper's Pit: Waste of time. Piper seemed incredibly off and rambled a bunch of nonsense. I wonder if the "bullshit" line in response to the crowd chanting for "Austin" was planned. Piper also slipped up and said "WWF" too. Carlito made things better when he came out, but it ruined the whole idea of the Piper/Austin face-off. I like that Piper acknowledged the "what" chants, but he seemed like he didn't know why the crowd was doing it. Austin was Austin. Glad that he also acknowledged the "what" chants a little bit too; his "what" promos with the crowd in the past were my favorites from him. He seemed to be out of practice catching beer cans.
Akebono/Show: Another waste of time. Show seemed genuinely disappointed that this was the match he was booked in for 'Mania. I've seen Sumo live before, but that still didn't stop me from looking away from the TV whenever the cameraman decided to zoom in for some nasty ass shots. :lol I was surprised they attempted to recreate a traditonal sumo ring and had the pre-match rituals too. (That was RICE they were throwing, Michael Cole, not "salt.")
JBL/Cena: MIGHT have been a decent TV match, but made a TERRIBLE main event. Match consisted of JBL smacking Cena around for 6-7 minutes, then Cena "hulking up" and doing his signature spots. Crowd seemed really dead for this one. I felt bad for Cena; he certainly needs a LOT of improvement in the ring, but he didn't have an opponent that could carry him, and it made what should have been a big PPV title win seem like he won back the U.S. title on an episode of Velocity or something. It seemed strange that JBL, the champion who has kept on winning mainly by cheating/Cabinet run-ins, got no help this time around. Cena needs to go back to using his original entrance music, too.
Hall of Fame 2005: Maybe it was just the crowd being so let down by the previous match, but no one except Hogan got any reaction. Volikoff looked like he was about to cry when he came out to a dead crowd. I realize many of the people in attendance probably didn't grow up watching them or were too young to know who they were, but people could have at least cheered a little bit for everyone. Jimmy Hart appears to have stopped aging; he looked exactly the same as he did 20 years ago.
HHH/DAVE: Didn't disappoint. Not a four star match, but very good IMO. Predictable win for Batista, but I don't think anyone expected HHH to retain. I was surprised the third member of Evolution didn't make an appearance. (The sledge hammer)
I don't like how I paid $50 for a PPV and didn't get the entire show, either. They should have shown that 30 man battle royale.
My thoughts:
-Eddie/Rey: Good way to start off the show. Good match, but not great, and it didn't further the storyline between both men one bit. (I expect Eddie to turn heel on this week's Smackdown! instead) Don't like Mysterio's new ring gear. The half-mask doesn't look that cool and Rey seemed to be having problems with it, as he was adjusting it throughout the match.
Money In The Bank Ladder Match: Benjamin stole the spotlight in this match with the T-Bone suplex off the ladder, and running up the ladder propped up onto another ladder (has that ever been done before?). I wasn't rooting for wife-cheating-asshole-Edge to win, but I'm okay with it since he will make for a fresh opponent for whichever champion he faces. Would have liked to have seen Christian win, but I knew there was zero chance of that happening.
Benjamin winning would have also been awesome. This match was good, but I didn't like how the action seemed to keep shifting to just two or three guys in the ring at all times for the majority of the match.Eugene/Hassan-Davari/Hogan: Heh, Eugene got ZERO reaction from the crowd when he came out. That's good, because his character is beyond stale despite having been out of action for a little while now, and perhaps this will send the WWE a message (I doubt it). He could be an instant hated heel if he turned on the crowd telling them his character was all an act and they were morons for believing him. Anyway, despite being even slower than usual, I still marked out for Hogan, who I knew would come out as soon as Hassan started beating up Eugene. Interesting that Eugene didn't come back into the ring to celebrate with Hogan. The crowd also popped HUGE for him; much more so than anyone else on the card. I think that says something about the current roster line-up.
Orton/Taker: Much better match than I expected. Taker especially did perhaps the best job in the ring since his return as the "Dead Man." Orton reversing the chokeslam and then trying the Tombstone was great. I'm glad Taker won, since I don't think Orton, at least at this point, should have been the one to end his WM winning streak. Plus this also makes Orton have a perfect excuse to jump to Smackdown! now and continue the feud.
Trish/Christy: We all know this "match" didn't deserve to be on a PPV, much less Wrestlemania. Horrible attempts by Christie to "wrestle." Trish managed to salvage the match as best she could, however, and I loved her making fun of Christie. Both women looked hot, which is what the WWE likely really cared about.
Angle/HBK: Great match, but seemed a little too slow for me at first. Awesome ending.
Piper's Pit: Waste of time. Piper seemed incredibly off and rambled a bunch of nonsense. I wonder if the "bullshit" line in response to the crowd chanting for "Austin" was planned. Piper also slipped up and said "WWF" too.
Carlito made things better when he came out, but it ruined the whole idea of the Piper/Austin face-off. I like that Piper acknowledged the "what" chants, but he seemed like he didn't know why the crowd was doing it. Austin was Austin. Glad that he also acknowledged the "what" chants a little bit too; his "what" promos with the crowd in the past were my favorites from him. He seemed to be out of practice catching beer cans.Akebono/Show: Another waste of time. Show seemed genuinely disappointed that this was the match he was booked in for 'Mania. I've seen Sumo live before, but that still didn't stop me from looking away from the TV whenever the cameraman decided to zoom in for some nasty ass shots. :lol I was surprised they attempted to recreate a traditonal sumo ring and had the pre-match rituals too. (That was RICE they were throwing, Michael Cole, not "salt.")
JBL/Cena: MIGHT have been a decent TV match, but made a TERRIBLE main event. Match consisted of JBL smacking Cena around for 6-7 minutes, then Cena "hulking up" and doing his signature spots. Crowd seemed really dead for this one. I felt bad for Cena; he certainly needs a LOT of improvement in the ring, but he didn't have an opponent that could carry him, and it made what should have been a big PPV title win seem like he won back the U.S. title on an episode of Velocity or something. It seemed strange that JBL, the champion who has kept on winning mainly by cheating/Cabinet run-ins, got no help this time around. Cena needs to go back to using his original entrance music, too.
Hall of Fame 2005: Maybe it was just the crowd being so let down by the previous match, but no one except Hogan got any reaction. Volikoff looked like he was about to cry when he came out to a dead crowd. I realize many of the people in attendance probably didn't grow up watching them or were too young to know who they were, but people could have at least cheered a little bit for everyone. Jimmy Hart appears to have stopped aging; he looked exactly the same as he did 20 years ago.
HHH/DAVE: Didn't disappoint. Not a four star match, but very good IMO. Predictable win for Batista, but I don't think anyone expected HHH to retain. I was surprised the third member of Evolution didn't make an appearance. (The sledge hammer)
Manick Joe
Member
Everything presentation wise was astounding this year from the cool set with the matches on the marquee to the many awesome entrances (Kane setting ladders on fire, JBL's police escort, HHH rising from the floor in the middle of Motorhead). I pretty much agree with the sentiment of Angle/HBK and Orton/Taker being the only good matches. Eddie/Rey seemed like a slightly above-average Smackdown match. Shelton had two nice spots, but the match itself had absolutely no flow and I can't remember a single thing Edge did aside from grab the case. Cowboy Bob coming out with the 20 year old cast was a huge hit at the get together I was at. As well as the excrutiatingly long ankle lock to end the HBK match and Hogan coming out to take care of Hassan (and the huge letdown afterward when Hogan wouldn't drop the leg!!!).
Oh yeah and what is this dirt on Orton? I completely missed the past three Raws and have no idea why he RKO'd Stacy (dumb s.o.b.).
Oh yeah and what is this dirt on Orton? I completely missed the past three Raws and have no idea why he RKO'd Stacy (dumb s.o.b.).
I'm pretty sure HBK lasted the longest anyone ever has in the ankle lock. The whole ending portion was about 2:30 minutes, and then you had two or three other portions of 30 seconds to a minute in the match where HBK was in the ankle lock and you're looking at 3-5 minutes of the ankle lock. Awesome attempts to get out, and awesome job by kurt keeping the hold on.
The match itself had some amazing moments, too, such as the angle slam into the turnbuckle (unfortunately the replays showed Michaels hit his leg, not his back. Why they continued to use this angle as the primary replay is beyond me; surely they must have noticed that it was visible that michael's leg, not his back, hit the post?).
The Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere was awesome.
I love how the crowd booed HBK for the entire match after the low blow. :lol
Oh, and randy RKOed Stacey basically as a message, saying he wouldn't stop at anything to beat taker, and that Stacey was becoming a "distraction," and he wanted to eliminate all distractions going into Wrestlemania (obviously that didn't help.)
The match itself had some amazing moments, too, such as the angle slam into the turnbuckle (unfortunately the replays showed Michaels hit his leg, not his back. Why they continued to use this angle as the primary replay is beyond me; surely they must have noticed that it was visible that michael's leg, not his back, hit the post?).
The Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere was awesome.
I love how the crowd booed HBK for the entire match after the low blow. :lol
Oh, and randy RKOed Stacey basically as a message, saying he wouldn't stop at anything to beat taker, and that Stacey was becoming a "distraction," and he wanted to eliminate all distractions going into Wrestlemania (obviously that didn't help.)
He RKO'ed Stacey because she hesitated when he asked her if she thought he could win.
Someone was asking about why Randy is in shit with management: he shit in one of the new Diva's purses and he poored a drink on another. He has also harrased most of them, leading almost all of them to move to Smackdown.
Someone was asking about why Randy is in shit with management: he shit in one of the new Diva's purses and he poored a drink on another. He has also harrased most of them, leading almost all of them to move to Smackdown.
Ninja Scooter
Member
StoOgE said:
he SHIT in her purse? Why wasn't this used as an angle?
StoOgE said:
Isn't Amy Webber the one that quit after the WWE went to Japan? They found flyers with pics of her on them for a strip club, then a bunch of the wrestlers made fun of her for it, and she quit after that. She was on Smackdown!, BTW, not RAW. I think she did get a drink poured on her by someone, but not Orton. I know Bradshaw was involved.
All these wrestlers sound like such chlidish little assholes. They'd fit in great here on GAF!
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
WM21 started out good. But the last 3 or so matches were horrible. Batista/HHH, Cena/JBL, and even Angle/HBK (minus the sweet chin music)... Ugh. The lowest point of the night had to be the Sumo fight though. Double ugh.
Cerebral Palsy said:
wait.. let me get this strait.. I can understand hating Cena/JBL (it sucked).. I can understand HHH/Batista (Its actually grown on me, especially the ending).. but HBK/Angle? If you dont like that match, you dont like wrestling, sorry. Its up there with the best matches of all time..
Also, Raw fallout:
Batista/HHH II will headline Backlash (no shock).. and Cena/JBL will have an "I quit" match. This could be where they pull the double switch (Cena loses the match on a DQ.. so he keeps the title, but has to go to Raw).. or it could be used to send JBL to Raw to give Batista more people to feud with. They can run through a Trips program over the next month.. then run with JBL beyond that.. then Kane beyond Summerslam, and then have him drop the strap to Edge at some point down the road.
Batista/HHH II will headline Backlash (no shock).. and Cena/JBL will have an "I quit" match. This could be where they pull the double switch (Cena loses the match on a DQ.. so he keeps the title, but has to go to Raw).. or it could be used to send JBL to Raw to give Batista more people to feud with. They can run through a Trips program over the next month.. then run with JBL beyond that.. then Kane beyond Summerslam, and then have him drop the strap to Edge at some point down the road.
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
StoOgE said:
Oops. I forgot how much I enjoy watching the same 3 submissions being reversed over and over the entire match. Angle is my favorite guy in the WWF... But the match just wasn't entertaining. I almost fell asleep and missed the sweet chin music.
Cerebral Palsy said:
See, I know what you mean, but still think you're wrong. It was one of the best matches in terms of slow build I've seen. It wasn't running on all cylinders, it didn't have high spot after high spot, but it had a slow build to eventual, kickass climax. The Ankle Lock at the end was just amazing drama and made for a kickass match.
There have been better in terms of wrestlling, and excitement, but in terms of just storytelling? It's a classic.
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