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Olympics 2024: Summer Games in Paris Official Thread

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
This guy on gold zone can hear the Olympics from anywhere in the world.

S5alRJr.jpeg
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Nowhere in the article proves shes a biological male lmao. Also a "feminist" transphobic far right site? Really my guy? Nice source. "Gender tests", jesus. This is in retaliation due to this and nothing more:


How would an article "prove" someone is a biological male? You've stated before that this fighter is a female, yet you've backed it up with no evidence yourself. And your feelings on the site(misguided at that) have no bearing on the legitimacy of the info contained within it. The European Vice President of the World Boxing Organization stated that they're male. Maybe they're lying but I have no evidence to suggest that. What would qualify as irrefutable evidence in an article? Ultimately you're going to have to believe one source or another at some point if you're reading reporting on it, since, you know, we don't have access to their DNA tests ourselves.
 
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Gp1

Member
UDBFtXo.jpeg


I've been watching soccer for more than 30 years and i sincerely never saw something so flagrant of a referee trying to extend a game in favor of the home team.
 

FireFly

Member
But those questions aside, I do think it is important to be able to be accurate with what someone's biological sex is. I've seen some debates online if someone with XY chromosomes can be female. The answer to that is no. If you have XY chromosomes you are always genetically male. Some people will say "yes you can" because they have an alternate definition of female/woman. But once you muddy the waters there, then what it means to be a female becomes totally arbitrary. For the sake of scientific accuracy and discussion, I believe we need to hold to the sex binary and it is determined by chromosomes.
It's the SRY gene (typically on the Y chromosome) that triggers sexual differentiation. If you lack that gene, you will not grow up as biologically male even if you are "genetically male". Equally, if you have XX chromosomes and one of them has the SRY gene, you will grow up as biologically male, even though you are "genetically female".
 

Durien

Member
It's the SRY gene (typically on the Y chromosome) that triggers sexual differentiation. If you lack that gene, you will not grow up as biologically male even if you are "genetically male". Equally, if you have XX chromosomes and one of them has the SRY gene, you will grow up as biologically male, even though you are "genetically female".
I recently learned about this in my class on genetics.

 

Durien

Member
I recently learned about this in my class on genetics.

BTW I understand that this is not about genetically engineering but helps to explain the SRY gene.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
UDBFtXo.jpeg


I've been watching soccer for more than 30 years and i sincerely never saw something so flagrant of a referee trying to extend a game in favor of the home team.
I think they always do this for the home country.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
It's the SRY gene (typically on the Y chromosome) that triggers sexual differentiation. If you lack that gene, you will not grow up as biologically male even if you are "genetically male". Equally, if you have XX chromosomes and one of them has the SRY gene, you will grow up as biologically male, even though you are "genetically female".
To convert this into less confusing language this just means if you lack the SRY gene you will present as female in terms of various aspects of your anatomy, but your DNA will still reflect you are male.
 

FireFly

Member
To convert this into less confusing language this just means if you lack the SRY gene you will present as female in terms of various aspects of your anatomy, but your DNA will still reflect you are male.
If being a male just means having XY chromosones, then that is trivially true. If it means having certain characteristics, that may or not be true.
 
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DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
If being a male just means having XY chromosones, then that is trivially true. If it means having certain characteristics, that may or not be true.
That’s what it means. Anything else is gender. It’s why for example when say human bones are found in the woods and they extract DNA from them to try to find out information about who the person was and they reveal the sex, they don’t say ”We can’t really tell the sex of the person just by DNA alone…“ They just reveal if it’s male or female unequivocally.

If this wasn’t true then sex could literally just mean anything anybody wanted it to.
 

Nydius

Member
UDBFtXo.jpeg


I've been watching soccer for more than 30 years and i sincerely never saw something so flagrant of a referee trying to extend a game in favor of the home team.

Sixteen minutes of stoppage time?! Did someone die on the pitch or something? Christ, that’s ludicrous.

And Brazil still won.
 
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12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
UDBFtXo.jpeg


I've been watching soccer for more than 30 years and i sincerely never saw something so flagrant of a referee trying to extend a game in favor of the home team.
It's not uncommon in women's football. The average stoppage time in the NWSL is 15+ min
 

FireFly

Member
That’s what it means. Anything else is gender. It’s why for example when say human bones are found in the woods and they extract DNA from them to try to find out information about who the person was and they reveal the sex, they don’t say ”We can’t really tell the sex of the person just by DNA alone…“ They just reveal if it’s male or female unequivocally.

If this wasn’t true then sex could literally just mean anything anybody wanted it to.
Well, theoretically it should be possible to pickup the absence or presence of the SRY gene, so if they found a skeleton they could identify whether that person had DSD. So in some sense the DNA would still give a picture of the person's "sex", however you want to describe that.

However, my point as it relates to the discussion is simply that if being male simply means "having XY chromosomes" then a statement like "X person has XY chromosomes therefore they are male" really means "X person has XY chromosomes therefore they have XY chromosomes". So there is no additional informational value there. A claim that someone who has XY chromosomes can be "female" in some relevant way, isn't disproved by pointing out that people who have XY chromosomes have XY chromosomes. The most that can be claimed is that they are framing their argument with the wrong language.
 

12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
You have claimed the fighter is a woman. Can you link me to where you got the information that proves this as fact?
brother please take your inconsequential bickering elsewhere. When you try to frame this ordeal as some clear cut topic when it's actually a super complicated clusterfuck that none of us here have any authority to discuss, you're doing everyone a disservice
 

Fake

Member
brother please take your inconsequential bickering elsewhere. When you try to frame this ordeal as some clear cut topic when it's actually a super complicated clusterfuck that none of us here have any authority to discuss, you're doing everyone a disservice

Well, you both could stop speaking for everyone. And I don't think he is doing a disservice and I'll completly honest about you being very evasive in this matter.

I think the fight was not OK and the discussion here have some valid points, unless someone here start to make insults to each other.

We are not kids I assume? In any case, if you don't like what people are discussing here just use the 'ignore' button.

The subject will sure be a main discussion after the olympics are over I can assure you. No way to run from this discussion no matter what.
 

Gp1

Member
Sixteen minutes of stoppage time?! Did someone die on the pitch or something? Christ, that’s ludicrous.

And Brazil still won.
It's not uncommon in women's football. The average stoppage time in the NWSL is 15+ min

Stoppage should add time when the ball stops on the 45 minutes.

It was 16 + 3 without a single big incident on the second-half. After 16min mark the ball crossed midfield like 4 or 5 times. A 5min extra time would be more than enough.

And every single commentator in my transmission said "she won't stop the game after those 16". We deal with CONMEBOL on a weekly basis so we know what's like to play with the referees against us.

And in these "16 minutes" a French player punched a Brazilian one and got away with only a yellow card.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
brother please take your inconsequential bickering elsewhere. When you try to frame this ordeal as some clear cut topic when it's actually a super complicated clusterfuck that none of us here have any authority to discuss, you're doing everyone a disservice
I think you have me confused with someone else because I’ve maintained that we don’t know if the reporting on the fighter is true and I’m only sharing what is being reported. I have not once tried to make this person’s identity clear cut. I did state biological sex is definitive, which it is. What this specific fighter actually is, is still not 100% confirmed one way or the other. But given it’s a hot topic whenever there are news updates I future they’re worth sharing.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Well, theoretically it should be possible to pickup the absence or presence of the SRY gene, so if they found a skeleton they could identify whether that person had DSD. So in some sense the DNA would still give a picture of the person's "sex", however you want to describe that.

However, my point as it relates to the discussion is simply that if being male simply means "having XY chromosomes" then a statement like "X person has XY chromosomes therefore they are male" really means "X person has XY chromosomes therefore they have XY chromosomes". So there is no additional informational value there. A claim that someone who has XY chromosomes can be "female" in some relevant way, isn't disproved by pointing out that people who have XY chromosomes have XY chromosomes. The most that can be claimed is that they are framing their argument with the wrong language.
I understand your point and I do agree with some of the overall logic and your premise when it comes to the semantics of it all, but here's why I do think it is important that a concrete definition of biological sex is established.

The whole reason this fight became a story is because it was reported that a man was fighting a woman in the olympic games. That angered a lot of people. Then there was a counter outrage of people claiming "There is nothing to be angered about, this fighter is a biological female." It caught fire in large part because who should be allowed to compete with whom, has been a debate raging for a few years now and this story just poured gasoline on the fire.

Firstly, that statement is either true or false. Generally, I think accuracy is important to understand the facts behind any story. Nothing is gained from incorrect info being accepted as truth. So say for argument's sake this fighter has XY chromosomes and is genetically male. But we continue to allow the narrative that they're a biological female go unchecked. Then you're setting an arbitrary precedent that someone with XY chromosomes can be biologically female because they present as female, have female anatomy. Any time you arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand, you open the door for the entire concept to be turned on its head and scientific understanding being lost. What's to stop someone else from saying "Hey, this may not be someone with Swyers Syndrome, but this person has breasts and a feminine voice, why don't we refer to them as biologically female?" Science and the universe chose who is male or female, not arbitrary decision-makers. We just gave them labels, is all. Which somewhat ties into your overall point, I think.

And with an evolving sports landscape when who should be allowed to compete with who and what is fair or unfair continues to be more and more up for debate, the last thing we need right now is to make the solution(whatever that is) even more complicated by losing sight on what biological sex is. Especially when it may be one of the key factors in determining how we approach fairness in sports going forward. We need terms and parameters clearly defined.
 
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12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
I think you have me confused with someone else because I’ve maintained that we don’t know if the reporting on the fighter is true and I’m only sharing what is being reported. I have not once tried to make this person’s identity clear cut. I did state biological sex is definitive, which it is. What this specific fighter actually is, is still not 100% confirmed one way or the other. But given it’s a hot topic whenever there are news updates I future they’re worth sharing.
My bad
 

RaduN

Member
Maybe the truth will eventually be revealed about the Paris Olympics.

So far the truth is that it is one of the most successful Olympics ever, with virtually impecable efforts from the hosts, escecially considering the volatile times we live in.
 

demigod

Member
The only source is IBA president Umar Kremlev. The same IBA that has been stripped of its rights by the IOC for failing to comply with ethical standards after some pretty severe corruption scandals. When pressed for the test results they changed their tune from chromosome testing to failing to meet testosterone levels. Now the story has changed to some undisclosed third party test they had performed and they don’t want to release the details.

Real compelling evidence there.
You mean the same source where he appealed and then dropped out of it? So tell us why won’t the IOC release the tests results?
 
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