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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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Skypeia is Da GOAT!
Neoriceisgood
Member
Did you honestly expect anything else when Violet + Rebecca went up against Doflamingo minutes before Luffy's recovery?
This is Oda we're talking about.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
What did we expect to happen when Viola went after Doflamingo?
You are getting to hung up on your gender wars - no one stands a chance against DOFla at this point besides Luffy. DoFla has been toying around with a bunch of characters in this arc and before Moria, Smoker, Sanji etc. just because R/V are women you expect them to be able to harm DoFla...come on.
Now I'm sad again.
Oh, and thanks Youtube for suggesting that video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSgf9rbu8kA
Now I'm a wreck.
Thank you. Result would have been the same with anyone except Fujitora and Sabo, and they're busy.
I'd say a chapter has never been this slow before, but I can't remember previous chapters accurately because this arc is so fucking long.
This is nowhere as bad as Namek.
5 minutes was stretched into like 10-13 chapters.
This was 10 minutes over 4 chapters.
It feels longer because you're waiting week after week after week.
More evidence that One Piece works better in volumes/tankobons than in Jump.
One Piece 789:
He's been doing this almost every other chapter for 4 arcs now but I still get annoyed every time it happens.
That last page was awesome though. Even though it was one of the smallest panels, Law looking at the viewer after transporting Luffy to Doflamingo is easily my favorite. It's also a nice touch that Luffy has a proper audience for this fight (and one where everyone is on his side for once).
He's been doing this almost every other chapter for 4 arcs now but I still get annoyed every time it happens.
That last page was awesome though. Even though it was one of the smallest panels, Law looking at the viewer after transporting Luffy to Doflamingo is easily my favorite. It's also a nice touch that Luffy has a proper audience for this fight (and one where everyone is on his side for once).
Neoriceisgood
Member
I just think Rebecca is an absolute bullshit character through and through.
I don't expect them to harm Dofla, no. But it feels like Oda literally threw these characters in front of Doflamingo to give Luffy some ladies to save as he recovered.
My problem is the situation, not Doflamingo beating characters he would obviously beat. Rebecca feels like every single Oda trope I dislike shoved into the same character and any scene she has pisses me off more.
He could've at least had her use her amazing dodging skills to avoid the parasite or something. Anything to make me feel like there's a bit of a character arc beyond "boo hoo im a damsel".
It pisses me off, pisses me off, pisses me off.
More of a "get pumped up" chapter than anything else. All fury with no real substance to get the crowd and the reader hyped for the final showdown...which then crashes when you realize we aren't getting another chapter next week. It'll be great when it happens and I'm expecting a ton of double pages...just sucks that this week was so light on substance.
Did like Violet's little bit right at the end though.
Did like Violet's little bit right at the end though.
But you would have been fine if they had been guys ? Hell Luffy saved Laws ass just a couple of minutes ago - Law, Shibukai with one of the most OP devil fruits shown so far, would been dead if it wasnt for Luffy.
I get why some people have issues with the presentation of women in OP (i dont have any issues because thats just not the type of Manga One Piece is), but in this case ?
Trust me i know what your want - but DoFla at this stage isnt the character where you have your underdog being able to show off. Dude is pissed off and in his Killer mode - both character are worlds apart when it comes to strength. Expecting Rebecca to be able to hold her own against him would be weird considering what DoFla had already done to stronger characters before.
The whole country is waiting for Luffy to finish the job because they literally cant touch DoFla - they dont stand a chance. The scene here just shows that Violet is willing to sacrifice her life for her country/family even knowing thats its like her death sentence.
everyday math
Banned
One of the civilians has "death" written on his shirt. Oda does love his foreshadowing.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Dofla nonchalantly stabbing gatz like an angry God was pretty cool
everyday math
Banned
Poor guy. He was pretty boss in these last few chapters.
I wonder how hungry Luffy will be after all this is said and done.
I feel like the last few chapters would work extremely well in one episode of a tv show, but since the anime is utter tripe, I have no faith that we'll get this stuff shown in a good way.
It's kind of all over the place in a manga. It was honestly a little hard to tell what was going on since there was just so much going on all at once.
Everything that's happening is awesome, it's just that Oda needs a way better editor.
Side note: Jesus Oda, just felt like recreating the exact "Save Me Luffy!" scene from Arlong Park there, huh?
It's kind of all over the place in a manga. It was honestly a little hard to tell what was going on since there was just so much going on all at once.
Everything that's happening is awesome, it's just that Oda needs a way better editor.
Side note: Jesus Oda, just felt like recreating the exact "Save Me Luffy!" scene from Arlong Park there, huh?
TheGreatDirector
Banned
So...is Doflamingo actually gonna die?
everyday math
Banned
I doubt Law will let him live. Either that or Kaido will have his hide.
Hopefully. Luffy punches him towards the sky, shattering his birdcage and straight lands him into Big Mom's mouth.
Neoriceisgood
Member
My issue isn't just a single chapter, it's the whole package. Heck I went into this arc sorta optimistic cause half the crew got cut out & Robin stayed behind; So I got excited thinking we'd finally get a decent 1 v.s. 1 Nico Robin fight (something we've honestly not had since Skypea).
Instead what do we get? Rebecca either getting rescued or winning fights by technicalities 20 times over, Nico Robin essentially taking a backseat in every single fight she takes a part in.
I'm actually considering going through Dressrosa when it's over to count the number of times Rebecca had to be rescued from something.
Yeah there's other characters who needed rescue like Law & Sanji got worfed by Doflamingo ... but they're also characters that either got legit awesome moments throughout the narrative and/or put up a hell of a fight before needing rescue.
From a narrative point of view a character like Rebecca barely has an arc, I guess the point to her narrative might be that she's a princess ... not a fighter? Even if I buy that, why on earth did she show up right in front of Doflamingo right now? Literally the only reason I can think;
She's the" emotional hook". Oda wanted Luffy to save her one more time before he KOs Doflamingo. To me that borders on piss poor writing, everything about Rebecca feels shoddy. And when Oda already has issues with treating female characters okay in the narrative. (without giving them a hax insta-KO power to make them "Strong") a character like Rebecca just makes all of it far more aggrevating.
I technically agree that Viola/Rebecca would never have been able to defeat Doflamingo, but that's not what I want. What I wanted was for them, if they were gonna confront him anyway, to do anything but simply becoming damsels for Luffy to save the next chapter.
Y'know what? I would've been fine with the Viola thing if Rebecca had just sodded off somewhere & if the arc in general made me actually think "hey these guys are pretty badass" at any point.
I think use of particular tropes only works if you've built up a solid foundation to make the readers go along. Doflamingo messing up Law or Smoker is almost satisfying cause we know how badass Law is, we know how much trouble Smoker has given Luffy over and over.
At the same time ... it feels good to see Law actually find ways to survive Doflamingo's assault & damage him significantly despite being clearly overpowered. A character can still be treated with respect while being the underdog/losing a fight.
At no point throughout the entire narrative of Dressrosa has Oda given me a real reason to feel this way about Rebecca and ... honestly? The same goes for Viola.
The only real "fight" we've seen her have is with "won't hit a lady" Sanji, right? Her going up against Doflamingo was sorta ... okay, guess we need someone for Luffy to rescue.
At least Oda could've let Rebecca's evasive skills & Violet's eye powers help them avoid Doflamingo's strings, but then have them still overwhelmed by Doflaming's ridiculous awakening ability turning the very floor they stood on to string or something. But nope, we just got what? 2 panels and then "u lost lulz".
At that point I would've rather had Luffy just show up while we skipped all this nonsense.
I think the weirder thing is just that we didn't need another emotional hook. I think we've well established how much we don't like Doflamingo, how much the island is in trouble, and the world stakes in terms of Doflamingo's ideals vs. Luffy's.
Throwing in that weird additional hook with Rebecca now is kind of pointless. That's why Oda needs an editor, he's getting very redundant. I think the other problem is that, either Oda or Jump has determined that the success of One Piece lies in the incredibly popular moments of Nami asking Luffy to save him in Arlong Park, Vivi crying and yelling at the crowd in Alabasta, and Robin yelling that she wants to live in Enies Lobby. It's true that those are really powerful moments, but they're all the exact same beat. It's as if Oda believes that the only way to have stakes is to have a boy save a crying girl in "traditional" romantic fashion. I mean, this trope exists in other eastern and western things, but oda seems to be constantly pushing it. It works when the actual arc is directly tied to the girl in question, but when the arc is about other things and Oda just tacks on the requisite crying girl, it feels less like writing and more like checking off a box.
On a more positive note, I really liked how by using Gatz, he was able to bring back the whole "fighting tournament" motif back in. Now people are counting down the "gong" as if it's a boxing tournament, in a cage no less. That coupled with the promise of a "One Hit KO" and everything actually ties in quite nicely. Oda's problems always lie in the minutia, as in, having way too much redundancy. Overall however, he's actually pretty good at making all threads pay off and having a satisfying conclusion from both a plot standpoint and a thematic standpoint.
Throwing in that weird additional hook with Rebecca now is kind of pointless. That's why Oda needs an editor, he's getting very redundant. I think the other problem is that, either Oda or Jump has determined that the success of One Piece lies in the incredibly popular moments of Nami asking Luffy to save him in Arlong Park, Vivi crying and yelling at the crowd in Alabasta, and Robin yelling that she wants to live in Enies Lobby. It's true that those are really powerful moments, but they're all the exact same beat. It's as if Oda believes that the only way to have stakes is to have a boy save a crying girl in "traditional" romantic fashion. I mean, this trope exists in other eastern and western things, but oda seems to be constantly pushing it. It works when the actual arc is directly tied to the girl in question, but when the arc is about other things and Oda just tacks on the requisite crying girl, it feels less like writing and more like checking off a box.
On a more positive note, I really liked how by using Gatz, he was able to bring back the whole "fighting tournament" motif back in. Now people are counting down the "gong" as if it's a boxing tournament, in a cage no less. That coupled with the promise of a "One Hit KO" and everything actually ties in quite nicely. Oda's problems always lie in the minutia, as in, having way too much redundancy. Overall however, he's actually pretty good at making all threads pay off and having a satisfying conclusion from both a plot standpoint and a thematic standpoint.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I actually think the Gatz boxing ring "thematic" would've been really awesome if the chapter had focused exclusively on that, rather than throwing in another "remember how rebecca needs saving" moment.
I actually loved the walk towards arlong park back in the day, where there sorta slow build up/walk towards arlong's base felt more epic entirely because it felt kinda slowly paced and the main guys stepped up to the plate. I would've much preferred if this chapter had done something like that with something like a splash page of Doflamingo & Luffy facing eachother at the end of it, rather than what happened.
Well, therein lies the problem with this arc, and increasingly more arcs in One Piece: There are too many redundant climaxes. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling like there were so many previous moments in Dressrosa where everything could have reasonably ended. For the past year or so, it's just been climax after climax with no satisfying resolution. I truly believe that all of the plot points, character arcs, and motifs are really great in this arc, it's just that execution is awful. Oda's always had pacing issues, but now his pacing is getting truly, truly chaotic. Just set the stakes and get it over with.
I used to really like that Oda put a lot of time and care into every character you meet in his world. Now it's getting to a point where he needs to stop introducing new characters. It gets so overwhelming in every arc.
I used to really like that Oda put a lot of time and care into every character you meet in his world. Now it's getting to a point where he needs to stop introducing new characters. It gets so overwhelming in every arc.
I'll agree that as much as I love OP and Oda, he's been getting progressively worse at writing female characters. Rebecca is absolutely worthless ,which is a big disappointment because her introduction had some promise since she used Haki to fight in a somewhat unique way. The problem is that she surely enough devolved into the standard damsel in distress with liittle use beyond needing to be saved by a man constantly.
And don't start me on how criminal his lack of use of the main female protagonists is, especially Robin. Like Neoriceisgood, I actually was excited that the crew got split up and Robin was active in this arc since I finally thought we'd get a true fight for Robin (Since Doffy has a pretty big, varied crew to pick an opponent for). We saw her "pretend" to get ready to fight members of the crew numerous times, but always got interrupted by the only one who could do anything, a man.
He literally had the PERFECT opponent for Robin to fight in this arc, Diamante. Dude could use his DF power to turn himself into a free-flowing state like a flag, meaning she couldn't one-shot him by breaking his bones like she does everyone else. And what does he do? Have her stand back to protect useless ass Rebecca while a man does the real fighting. Granted, I understand the story called for Kyros to be involved in the fight and even deliver the final blow, but Oda could have at least had Robin tag-team with Kyros for this fight. It's pretty bad when non-SH characters like Bart and Kyros get real 1-on-1 fights instead of someone who's suppose to be in the crew.
After seeing him throw away a perfect opportunity for Robin to fight, I've given up any hope of seeing her get a 1-on-1 until Raftel, and that's only if doesn't decide to give it to whatever random man happens to be in that arc. It may seem like I'm venting quite a bit, but it really is disappointing that my favorite mangaka writes his female characters so poorly. He never wrote them to an innovative level or anything, but it seems like he's only gotten worse and worse as time goes on and it doesn't look like it'll be getting any better anytime soon.
And don't start me on how criminal his lack of use of the main female protagonists is, especially Robin. Like Neoriceisgood, I actually was excited that the crew got split up and Robin was active in this arc since I finally thought we'd get a true fight for Robin (Since Doffy has a pretty big, varied crew to pick an opponent for). We saw her "pretend" to get ready to fight members of the crew numerous times, but always got interrupted by the only one who could do anything, a man.
He literally had the PERFECT opponent for Robin to fight in this arc, Diamante. Dude could use his DF power to turn himself into a free-flowing state like a flag, meaning she couldn't one-shot him by breaking his bones like she does everyone else. And what does he do? Have her stand back to protect useless ass Rebecca while a man does the real fighting. Granted, I understand the story called for Kyros to be involved in the fight and even deliver the final blow, but Oda could have at least had Robin tag-team with Kyros for this fight. It's pretty bad when non-SH characters like Bart and Kyros get real 1-on-1 fights instead of someone who's suppose to be in the crew.
After seeing him throw away a perfect opportunity for Robin to fight, I've given up any hope of seeing her get a 1-on-1 until Raftel, and that's only if doesn't decide to give it to whatever random man happens to be in that arc. It may seem like I'm venting quite a bit, but it really is disappointing that my favorite mangaka writes his female characters so poorly. He never wrote them to an innovative level or anything, but it seems like he's only gotten worse and worse as time goes on and it doesn't look like it'll be getting any better anytime soon.
Jesus you people need to enjoy stuff, and Viola and Rebecca try to stall doffy not kill him not because Oda needs another freaking moment of women being "saved" it's because if nobody does after LITTERALLY ALMOST every glad just got impaled in seconds then they're all dead. They're in a desperate moment right now, (even if it doesn't seem like it to us who're just counting down chapters to the end).
Neoriceisgood
Member
I think an issue is that a lot of Oda's conventional arc hooks & structure formulas are almost treated as obligatory to him ... while to a lot of readers significant portions of the underlying narrative honestlyaren't that important.
Usually an arc introduces 2-3 characters that give us some sense of "why should we care for this island's inhabitants", this often ranges from the arc-nakama, to the country's king/queen, to random namiclone lady.
I actually think that at a base level this is a good formula, pretty much every island the OP crew visits has a handful of characters that make us "care" (vivi, caimie, dalton, most strawhats count within their own story arcs.)
The issue with Dressrosa is that there's so many "hooks" Law, the King, Toy Soldier/Kyros, Bellamy, Rebecca & some stuff like Viola as well.
Simultaneously we've got stuff like flashbacks from Dofla's crew, all the colliseum fighters, Fujitora, Sabo .. all of these things are awesome but they honestly don't "work" with so many traditional emotional hooks.
If Rebecca's role was significantly reduced (maybe even contained to the gladiator arc?) and the doflamingo stuff's emotional hook was far more focused on Law, that would've worked better for me.
Apologies for not being able to turn my brain off when I see stuff that bothers me.
If I just wanted to be entertained without caring about glaring narrative issues, I'd still be reading Fairy Tail.
Luffy's taken "opponents" that should've belonged to someone else plenty of times.
Narratively shouldn't Dalton have been the one to defeat Wapol? The writer decides to set up a narrative that makes cohorent internal sense, sure. But that does require Oda to set up a narrative where Robin ends up exactly in the situation where the one fight she could've had since Skypiea "just happened to be more fit for someone else."
The worst part is that she got injured doing essentially nothing, that's the point where I just flat out gave up home for Oda to ever do this right.
Like I said, at the very least Robin could have tag teamed Diamante with Kyros. Diamante did kill Kyros's wife, so I understand the narrative need for him to be involved in the fight, but it doesn't mean he could have had some help in taking him down. After all, at the core, the SH's are the stars of the series so them being actively involved in battles should only be natural.
Also, Diamane's DF power screamed for him to be matched against Robin. Although I should have known since Diamante was one of the top executives, there was no way Oda would have her involved in taking him down at all, gotta leave that to a man.
Flashbacks we got in this arc:
- Law
- Rebecca
- King Riku
- Kyros
- Senor Pink
- Baby 5
Neoriceisgood
Member
Isn't popping up on foreign islands and stealing people's fights from them essentially Luffy's entire schtick during One Piece?
Just exaggerating a bit, but "oh this fight belongs to x" has never been that big a rule in OP aside from Zoro getting swordfighters.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Oda did say even he felt he had too many ideas this arc. It's a wonder someone didn't tell him to tone it down.
Although Baby 5 and Pink got flashbacks because they were both supposed to be sympathetic characters that will exist outside of Doflamingo's shadow.
Although Baby 5 and Pink got flashbacks because they were both supposed to be sympathetic characters that will exist outside of Doflamingo's shadow.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Remember when we were all saying he should take more breaks so he doesn't burn himself out or injure himself? Let's not forget so easily. They ain't HxH hiatuses, just a week here and there, no big.
Like somebody said before, you're stuck in "gender wars" WHEN EVERYBODY IS HOLDING BIRDCAGE BACK, those two were the only two not busy doing so, there had to be somebody to stall doffy. You're also expecting Rebecca and Viola to be in any sort of emotional stability after dealing with somebody who has ruined their entire lives so far.
Don't act like the women are the only ones who're ever "saved" in this show, hell LUFFY was saved after the events of marineford. Everybody in this show has a breaking point (which is nice).
The issue is less that it's "another woman getting saved" and more that it's an additional hook that doesn't even need to be there in the first place.
Like, if Oda wanted to have that scene take place, that should have been what happened immediately after Luffy realized he'd have to wait 10 minutes in order to recover. Instead, we had a bunch of other immediate hooks before Oda even added that one, and on top of that it's a trope he's overused in the past. It ends up feeling obligatory instead of necessary.
Like, if Oda wanted to have that scene take place, that should have been what happened immediately after Luffy realized he'd have to wait 10 minutes in order to recover. Instead, we had a bunch of other immediate hooks before Oda even added that one, and on top of that it's a trope he's overused in the past. It ends up feeling obligatory instead of necessary.
That's definitely Luffy's quirk, deciding he's going to kick someone's ass regardless to weather someone else has their sights set on them first. Although, in most arcs, you could generally tell who's going to be matched up with who, especially as the arc goes on, with some exceptions of course.
For some reason, one of the more unusual change-ups that sticks out in my head is in one of the OP movies, because Zoro took on a marital artist/hand-to-hand combant, whereas Sanji got the swordsman. Granted, that was all completely filler but it was weird to see that happen.
So Rebecca and Viola were just supposed to automatically be there by doffy from where they were in a couple seconds in a huge hill like country that took ages to reach the top of ok.... No we got a progression that made sense, the glads who weren't already fighting were already at the bottom of the island and were able to fend off doffy for just a bit, they didn't have as much as emotional attachment to him and were basically fodder.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Just don't reply to me if you're gonna completely misinterpret something I've already explained in detail not being my issue.
Seriously. I don't mind female characters being saved, I do mind how this comes across in the greater narrative.
Rebecca borders on a parody of Oda's biggest issues, that's how bad she comes across to me.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Rebecca and everything about her is so so bad.
Neoriceisgood
Member
She might legitimately be my least liked character in all of One Piece, I can't really think of anyone who could compete in any fashion.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
She definitely is for me, can't think of another character I don't like as much as her. Maybe Hody Jones and his bumblefuck crew because they are equally as pointless.
gundamkyoukai
Member
That would have made no sense story wise for her to show up then .
As for Rebecca people were expecting to much out of her , she was written as someone who does not want to fight but feels\ force to .
everyday math
Banned
How the hell has all this fit in one day? Jeebus...
and again to the greater narrative Rebecca showing up when she did and saying the lines she did made sense, hell THE WHOLE ISLAND is chanting Luffy's name to save them, yet you find it a problem that the person closest to doffy gets a panel by herself?
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