Come on, One Piece has problems but that wasn't one.
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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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Come on, One Piece has problems but that wasn't one.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Hilarious how a member who just finished Water 7 in the anime posts in the manga thread...then two big spoilers from Marineford are posted right after.
lol
lol
Absurd. That face is the very definition of narm. His jaws are literally seperated at a 180 degree angle. His face is so deformed that any reaction other than laughter is basically straight up impossible.
I mean, you didn't really need a huge write-up to explain that lol
It's a very subjective scene in the aesthetic sense, and I understand where you're coming from. To me, it's the pupils which, if you look at Sabo's reaction to Ace's death in the latest chapter as a similar one to Luffy's, looked much better because of that difference.
Still, I think it looks far from goofy. Considering how much tension is on the line from over a hundred chapters of build-up in this very moment, I think it was an appropriately shocked face.
You clearly do not know me, lol. I LOVE writing stuff up.
I don't actually like OP, for this and various other reasons, but it's intricate and unique, which is enough. I don't have to like it to find it worth studying. But yeah, I acknowledge I am a minority in this sense, so I don't push my sociopathic viewpoint of the series on anyone here.
Yeah, I don't get it either, but evidentally it works for some people. Though I was also told the Going Merry burning was not supposed to be a comedy scene by many people, so what do I know.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
I dunno. It's very easy to get adjusted to the way Oda draws his characters emoting.
The face in particular isn't even close to the weirdest.
I mean, in retrospective, maybe is kinda funny, but in context it really hits home how much of a big deal it is to Luffy. This is pretty much the first time we see him choke so bad.
Also I see at people crying and their face seems funny, we get all red and lumpy and tearing mucous everywhere, crying people are funny.
They can look funny, but usually they aren't even if their blubbering. I mean, humor is subjective, but this for example.
Maybe you see something hilarious here, but I don't. But at the same time, I don't think he's holding anything back either.
Even if Oda wanted to exxaggerate for highest emotional effect, he had to know that this was not the time for a ridiculous exaggeration. There are ways to do it without making it comedic. I don't really see what he thought enlarging his jaw and uniting his row of teeth into a single tooth when he opens his mouth wide (without a scream of anguish mind you, he just opens his mouth to the air)
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
You, sir, are worse than Hitler.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
The anime and manga versions of that scene are completely different. In the manga, Luffy isn't even crying. His mind breaks and he's completely comatose.
In the anime, Luffy is crying and howling before he goes comatose. It doesn't convey the point properly and reinterprets the emotion into something more like a child throwing a tantrum.
In the anime, Luffy is crying and howling before he goes comatose. It doesn't convey the point properly and reinterprets the emotion into something more like a child throwing a tantrum.
Cloud Strife
Member
Oh I do, Korra-Gaf dude lol. I left because the last season pissed me off huuuge.
But I get you, and actually I think we would dislike the series for a lot of the same reasons to be quite honest.
That actually sounds better than what the manga did. The scream of anguish atleast explains why his jaw is open like that. When people go into shock, they don't have a preset face of despair before they do so. They just have this numb, unaware facial expression, as if they're in a day dream and not really sure whats happening. Hell, holding your jaw open THAT wide takes effort.
Which is kind of my whole point here. One piece characters don't act anything like real people, so I just can't empathize with them. I've never seen a series that's so intricate, yet so wholly artificial. The intricacy keeps me curious, but it's never going to make me actually care.
This is the face that conveys luffy's true despair. Bordering on the edge of tears implies there is a sense of awareness of whats happening, but his eyes just staring out into the distance behind ace implicitly tells us he's in a shocked state where he's in disbelief of what is going on, which underlies how hard this shit is hitting him. He holds him tight, but both he and the audience know whats coming.
The pez dispenser face is, literally, a joke.
Cloud Strife
Member
Cloud Strife
Member
10/10, would laugh again thx oda-sensei for comedy-piece
I think it has to do more with the personality of the character the way the sadness is displayed.
For example, see Robin´s emotions:
In my opinion one of the strongest moments in One Piece, similar to Ace´s dead. Notice how Robin is far more gracious in her display of emotion, yet its clear she is letting it out.
Now lets look at Zoro.
His had more sweat, this could be because of his fight or just because of how hotblooded he is, so his sadness is more similar to anger.
Luffy, on the other hand, is a guy who keeps his heart in his sleeve, not the kind of guy who would try to hide it or hold it, he is to honest.
Is in his personality to be over-the-top all the time. In your opinion how would be the best way to handle Luffy losing his brother after all the effort he went through to save him and even feeling it was his fault? I honestly can´t see Luffy holding back his tears or crying in a grieving, withholding pose like the one you suggest in your picture. It was pure, unadulterated show and I think Oda did a good job showing it, it also helps that, well, the art has always been weird, be it fun times or serious times, its just the way it is.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Nothing in that scene was supposed to be comedic. If it came off that way to you, that's unfortunate.
This is Luffy's breaking point. The culmination of the loss at Saobody, the loss at Impel Down and being completely useless in Marineford.
Luffy is a loud and exaggerated character, so when he hits rock bottom, his grief and sorrow is going to be exaggerated and loud.
In that same scene, we're shown the slow transition of how Luffy is processing the death. As he comes to realize Ace is gone, his mind can't take it and it breaks. Luffy had never had someone close to him literally die in front of him. For someone with limitless optimism and determination, this is something he can't comprehend and process properly.
Crying and shouting would be normal for a regular person, but for someone like Luffy, it's a massive mental destroying experience.
And about One Piece characters not acting like real people:
That's ridiculous. Most of the characters are exaggerated, some might be more caricatures than others, BUT there's enough real human emotion in a good chunk of the cast. Some react to events almost like a real human would.
Usopp, for example, is the closest to an average human being on the crew.
It's in no one's personality to be over the top all the time, or subtle, or anything. In fact, if anything, it'd probably be more effective if you just see Luffy, for the first time, not willing to be the clown. This is serious and he has no way to make this funny. Or, at the very least, when you draw his exaggerated despair, make it believable in the normal context of the art depiction. As I said, there is absolutely no way they can make those faces in the constraints of their 'normal' looks. It bothered me too in the Luffy, Usopp moment. Those faces are impossible without abandoning what is the normal art style, which hurts the scene. I specifically think Robin and Zoro are more effective for this because they looked like their normal selves. It's not hiding behind this exaggerated art style. I felt that was more them (though the sweat your talking about is actually water. They had just pulled him out of the sea Mihawk let him drop in. And even Robins is a bit annoying with the mucus. Have you ever cried before? The mucus doesn't happen instantly. It takes a bit to work up.).
But your missing the point. This isn't a character thing, it's an immersion thing. Even if I were to agree to your point, it's incredibly distracting if you have to consistently stop in the middle of what your reading and go 'wtf is that?' Oda and his audience clearly love this, but I loathe it with every fiber of my being and it utterly ruins OP more than any other complaint I can make about it. It doesn't happen with just moments of crying, it's just where they are most frustrating from an emotional investment perspective. I hate this in regards to fights, transformations, abilities, plot...basically everything.
Can you please tell me how you know this? Oda has made it a point that he always likes having some form of humor in everything he does. It's why he had Luffy's power be rubber, he wanted his fights to always have an element of silliness. He's had funny scenes be also heartwarming and sad and awesome all at the same time. Why is it so impossible that he'd want to make this a bit funny WHILE ALSO making it sad? He's done it all the time before. I'm not even disagreeing that it's out of character, but Luffy is by and large funny in everything he does. Is it really that surprising that he'd also be hilarious when he's emotionally devastated?
Not that it matters. Intended or not, in character or not, Luffy's face is hilarious, and it's hilarity negates any gravitas the scene had.
I'm not ignorant of what is happening. I'm just saying it's not presented in such a way that allows me to empathize, because...
I agree that Usopp is the most human one. His arc in Waters 7-Ennies Lobby had me care a little, which is why I said Ace's death would have been the second time in all of OP that I had felt an emotional reaction. But it's not much. Even if I did get invested in a single story arc in the ENTIRE OP story thus far, it's too small for me to say I care about the character as a whole.
I'm happy for you that OP comes off as genuine and I'm not gonna rain on your parade, but it never does for me. I feel very little to nothing for 99% of the characters. I'd root for the bad guys if they weren't equally unbelievable as characters for me. I really hope Oda doesn't greatly alter Eustass from being a sociopath as he's been portrayed so far, because he's the only character I've been able to relate to this whole manga.
Fair enough, you said before you appreciate One Piece for what it is while not really getting into it as much as some of us do, and I can get that, I really do enjoy you gave it a chance and can enjoy some parts of it. I can see how the over the top reactions can take you out of a story, I have similar issues when I feel a work is pretentious in trying to make you feel bad for a character (Like a lot of art films, that I usually dislike).
So lets leave it at that, I like that One Piece is so big that there is really something for everyone.
I can respect that. As I said, I don't mean to rock anyone's boats on this, but it's tricky to engage with a fandom when you want to keep watching something while really not caring for it too much. I'd call OP a hate read for me, but I don't even hate it anymore, I'm just annoyed by it's nonsense mostly (Now, Arrow...that is a hate watch for me, jesus christ, fuck that show). OP like that dumb friend that's ridiculously obnoxious who you don't really like, but does something interesting every blue moon, so you don't want to cut him off from your life entirely. I'm just hear for the ridiculous call-back/foreshadowing moments and finding out the mysteries of the void century and OCCASIONALLY some of the designs. I can wait out everything else.
I feel I'd enjoy it a lot more if we followed the story from Eustass' perspective.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Oda likes to inject humor in heartwarming scenes and some sad scenes, but this is completely different than anything he had done before. He's done just as many bleak scenes without any humor at all.
It would be counter-productive to try to add in some humor when the main character is going through the most traumatic experience of his life.
I've read enough interviews and comments from Oda to get an understanding of how he develops an emotional scene.
Why would Luffy try to be acting humorous when his brother just died in front of him?
That doesn't make sense.
If it negates any emotion for you, then that's fine. That's completely subjective.
Based on your previous posts, the manga isn't for you, and that's fine. The art style might make it hard to really enjoy the manga for some people, but that's just the way it is.
If you're looking for manga characters that fit the believably human list, there are definitely a lot of manga that aren't battle shonen that exist out there. Slice-of-life or an urban seinen series might be right up your ally.
Well, that's kind of my complaint about the whole thing. The face is counterproductive to the tragedy he is trying to depict. If there is a sequence wholly without humor, I can't think of too many of them. Even ones that have no overt jokes, the character designs themselves are often so funny that it's inherently funny to just portray them seriously.
I mean, if you feel Oda wasn't trying to depict it comedically, that's fine. I don't give much weight to authorial intentions in any case. Regardless of what Oda wanted, he made it funny.
Because Luffy doesn't act humorous intentionally, he just is funny. Like, he can't help it, it's the core of his being. When he's fighting, his techniques and Gears look silly, so even though he's acting completely serious, he's still funny because his schemes and techniques look humorous. Again, this I atleast know was Oda's intention when creating the powers for the character. The Luffy-Usopp moment of forgiveness was also meant to be funny because of how they're blubbering, I thought. So I don't see it being too crazy to think he's funny while being depressed.
OP is a special case. Years ago, I'd have argued that Naruto or even Bleach were better at this and therefore better stories in general. To a smaller extent, I'd still argue some scenes had more believable emotional impact for me. But as stories, they both fail technically in many ways. Bleach is an aimless drunkard, while Naruto...ugh, that manga fell off the wagon and cracked it's skull on the pavement, which is especially disappointing as it will always hold a special place in my heart for being my first manga.
But I'm not asking for much here. It doesn't take an enormous amount of effort to make a believable moment. On paper, OP has a lot of them, but it's sheer over the topness makes it inauthentic for me, more so than a lot of manga I will readily admit are less technically well written than it.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
...
.....
Hmmmm... okay. That'll do it for me.
I would like to continue this discussion, but I'm tired and I need to be to be up early tomorrow.
Will give more of my thoughts later.
Frozenprince
Banned
The Pirates Summit literally means exactly that, the summit, the peak, where all pirates want to go I.E. Raftel.
People actually didn't understand that? Seriously? It's PAINFULLY simple.
Also NOTHING will top "TAKE ME TO THE SEA WITH YOU".
GOAT OP moment right there. Nothing will ever be better.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
I had a few man tears for all of these, and more.
Cloud Strife
Member
Sorry Veelk, but I have to agree...
But if it's any consolation, I also have some high hopes for Kidd as a foil to Luffy.
OP is for me as much as it is for you, I just happen to not like it. I hate that phrase. OP is not a gift or privileged. It's a piece or art, and it's for everyone, as all art is.
And I never said Kidd is the best written character, just the most relatable to me. I only mean it in the sense that if I were a character in OP, I'd be most like Kidd. Relatabiility isn't about being well written, more just having traits in common. Doflamingo used to be relatable to me until it was revealed that a lot of his sociopathy was rooted in a superiority complex, but that reveal did make him a deeper character than he was before the dressrosa arc.
NHarmonic.
Member
I think it was an accurate face for that situation. Probably the most excruciating pain luffy ever felt, it completely destroyed him, that face is horrible, and manages to transmit how fucked up luffy became by what happened.
I didn't laugh at it, tbh. Those chapters had nothing funny about them.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
TIL some people are heartless.
Also Veelk is also always leading the way with pointless One Piece arguments. Stop feeding the troll!
Also Veelk is also always leading the way with pointless One Piece arguments. Stop feeding the troll!
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
That means it's not for you. lol.
It's not saying "you can't have this!" But saying "You probably don't want this." If you don't like something, it's "not for you." It was created to be enjoyed and appreciated, and if it does neither of these things for you then you are not its intended audience. Nobody creates art for their worst critics.
I do want it though. I made that clear. Otherwise, I'd just drop it. I just don't like it. I don't believe art has to be enjoyed just to be appreciated for what it is. And while I know the phrase means, it has the same implication of "Don't participate in this", which is an exclusionary sentiment I dislike.
NHarmonic.
Member
Some spoilers are out for 795:
Fujitora throws a dice to decide if he'd capture or not the Strawhats + Law, the result is: No
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
That is so him.
Not sure where this argument even came from. I know plenty of people who didn't like Luffy's face when Ace died. It's a weird face.
I always contextualized it as him being completely exhausted: He's just done. I personally didn't find it comedic but intentionally off-putting. I think the better representation of his grief is later on, when he's rampaging on the island with Jimbei. The face back there with Ace isn't really one of grief as it is him completely losing control of his body. His real anger and sadness come out when Jimbei and Law revive him. That said, I have plenty of friends who took issue with it. It was a very strange creative decision.
How I view it isn't the point, though. There's lots of shit I don't like in One Piece, no need to exclude someone because they didn't like a weird face Luffy made. Heck, I didn't even find Ace's death to be all that powerful compared to other moments, so I'm the last who could judge.
I always contextualized it as him being completely exhausted: He's just done. I personally didn't find it comedic but intentionally off-putting. I think the better representation of his grief is later on, when he's rampaging on the island with Jimbei. The face back there with Ace isn't really one of grief as it is him completely losing control of his body. His real anger and sadness come out when Jimbei and Law revive him. That said, I have plenty of friends who took issue with it. It was a very strange creative decision.
How I view it isn't the point, though. There's lots of shit I don't like in One Piece, no need to exclude someone because they didn't like a weird face Luffy made. Heck, I didn't even find Ace's death to be all that powerful compared to other moments, so I'm the last who could judge.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
No, Zatoichi.
Cloud Strife
Member
Tomorrow or late tonight.
More Fun To Compute
Member
That scene with Luffy in the manga was very weird since Oda normally doesn't do oddly drawn figures and angles that make the characters look bad. What it looked like to me was he was trying to do was show Luffy just completely mentally checking out. It even looked like the start of some sort of transformation scene where he would turn into some monster bezerk Luffy.
gundamkyoukai
Member
More spoilers are out and a very important pic .
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