Oda has shown why Luffy has problems with high level swordsmen.
Anyone in One Piece's world would have problems against him lol.
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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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Anyone in One Piece's world would have problems against him lol.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
This! It has really changed how the fights have gone imo. I liked it when Luffy beat Crocodile because he used water, when he beat Eneru because he's made of rubber,and how beat Lucci because he used his rubber fruit in a new creative way. I really hope it doesn't turn into a Haki battle, DB turned to trash once power levels were created.
Through the battle between Luffy and Doflamingo we saw the balance of Armament Haki:
If two Armament Haki parts slash, the Haki factor is neutralized and both hit as normal. In the fight Doflaming hit Luffy with an Armament Haki attack on his Armament Haki body, both Armament Haki deferences got canceled and Luffy's rubber defense ate up the attack. In the same way would a Haki Sword attack cancel a Armament Haki defense and simply cut though the opponent. This is why, a Logia user only has two options against Haki. Either get clean hit by the Haki attack, while trying to change into his element (the very bad choice), or use Armament Haki to naturally block the attack (better be not an weakling).
Haki is a great way to balance Logia, explain how people can battle through armies and still have creative battles.
You may hate Haki, but it's needed.
It answers why Logia users don't own the world. Why Kuzan, Borsalino, and Sakazuki still listened to Sengoku even though he was a Zoan.
It also tells us how Luffy can defeat Smoker and Kuzan when he couldn't touch them. Luffy got lucky with Croc and Eneru.
It answers why Logia users don't own the world. Why Kuzan, Borsalino, and Sakazuki still listened to Sengoku even though he was a Zoan.
It also tells us how Luffy can defeat Smoker and Kuzan when he couldn't touch them. Luffy got lucky with Croc and Eneru.
I don't think the Marines necessarily work in a "More Strength = More Authority" type fashion. I'm sure when Sengoku was promoted to Fleet Admiral he was pretty damn strong, but I think there's other factors, such as leadership ability and the "favor" of the gorosei and the world nobles. We also have no idea how strong Sengoku's Haki is compared to anyone else in the Marines.
I still think Haki's a bit of a band-aid Oda had to come up with to address power creep, but I'm ultimately fine with it because I'm not in this thing for power levels, I'm in it for storytelling. I don't think Haki compromises the overall themes and story of the manga, so who cares if he had to make something up loosely based on that time shanks stared down a sea monster.
I think Oda always knew he'd have to come up with some way for Luffy to deal with Logia, whether it be through clever tricks like Crocodile and Eneru, or through possibly recruiting members that could deal with it as well. But as power creep settled in and crazier and crazier powers became the norm, he needed an easier way for Luffy & Crew to stand toe to toe with opponents while also being able to quickly check lower level opponents. Knowing he had already established some cool concepts with Shanks and Eneru's "Mantra", he used them to generate a world standard. Basically, he always sort of had the idea for Haki floating around, but it was never really conceptualized and standardized until later. Past the technical explanations, the concept of deriving strength through literal "willpower" is actually pretty spot on for the general themes of the story. I liked the concept a little more when it was more of a vague construct than the literal interpretation it is now, but I guess he had to show it at some point.
Haki doesn't take much thought compared to actual powers, you just have to have a "higher level" of it than your opponent. That said, I think he's handled it well even though I don't like the whole "turning black" thing. So far, no one's really been beaten because their Haki wasn't strong enough, it's more or less used as a "power check" to show that Luffy is truly stronger than he was before.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Oda has dealt with it my making it so that Luffy is busy with the strong guy because it's strongest haki v strongest haki. Everyone else is weaker than Luffy so can't help him so their job is to make sure he isn't bothered. A character like Robin who doesn't appear to have armament haki is more of a liability if she tries to do anything other than sit back.
TheRealTalker
Banned
I have a feeling Team Kid is going to join up with Kaido's War idea
Kaido may even in exchange give Kid one of his fleets in order to take down Shanks
Kaido may even in exchange give Kid one of his fleets in order to take down Shanks
Pretty much, really it's no different than some just being stronger than someone else. Creative use of devil fruit powers are still the gold standard when it comes to strength. We saw that in the Luffy vs Mingo fight. Haki hasn't changed much in the series outside of making logia-types beatable.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I like the way haki was introduced, as the series has been about continual growth and reaching beyond the limits of normal people.
Arlong in the East Blue saga was a legitimately threatening presence. People were scared of him. Don Krieg, too. Luffy beat them easily, so we get the point that he's strong.
Then we get Smoker, our first encounter with a logia user. Luffy, the badass who beat Morgan, Kuro, and Arlong with little effort and only struggled with Krieg because of his trickery, is completely helpless. It helps that this is right before they enter the Grand Line, a place said to be home to crazy people and events beyond what they could imagine in East Blue. The Mihawk foreshadowing was similarly well done because Zoro got obliterated, but I think Smoker's advantage over Luffy was more powerful because Mihawk was setup to be a nigh-unapproachable end goal from the moment of his introduction. Smoker is just a Captain in the Marines, and all of a sudden Luffy's got problems.
Then once in the Grand Line we see all sorts of crazy people and things, just as we were told we would, and Luffy has to get creative in order to fight back. The first half of the first half (lol) of the series has Luffy exploiting the natural weaknesses of superpowered logias in order to beat them. By this point we realize that everyone who warned Luffy was right; he's not some unbeatable badass, it's going to be tough, and the Grand Line is a scary place. Moreover, Luffy isn't even that remarkable compared to most others.
Then we see CP9 and Aokiji, and Luffy doesn't have any miracle to save him. He gets totally wrecked several times in this arc, and CP9 don't even have the logia thing going for them. In fact, what I love the most about CP9 is that they're established as a threat even before we know they have devil's fruits, and some of them don't even have theirs when we meet them. They're regular humans who've trained themselves to the limit, and their Rokushiki techniques begin to subvert the idea that devil's fruits = power. For the first time in the series the Straw Hats are really pushed into a corner in multiple ways, and forced to grow. This is where we see their fighting styles change - Luffy gets his gears, Zoro starts to bring his "spirit" into his techniques, Sanji gets fire, etc. I find it amazing the series went this long before its protagonists were forced to evolve. This was really the Dragonball -> Z moment in the series, at least for me. The Straw Hats weren't allowed to be normal anymore, or even extraordinary in the sense that a normal person would be. Unlike DB/Z, though, these monsters they had to fight were there from the very beginning, and you knew they'd have to get here eventually.
The introduction of haki kind of played off what we saw with CP9, and showed us that, again, devil's fruits are an advantage, but not a requirement. Garp is seen as Roger's equal for the most part and he doesn't have one; same with Shanks. Now we know how that's possible, despite DFs being supernatural crazy nonsense. It wasn't introduced out of nowhere and it was a creative way to reign in the power creep while also introducing it in a very organic way. Oda was even able to draw its first appearance in the series all the way back to Skypiea, which, retroactive or not, was a great way to cement its place in the OP world. Actually, scratch that - it can be traced all the way back to Shanks scaring off the Lord of the Coast in the very first chapters.
I think OP is one of the few series I've seen that handles the inevitable power creep trap of shonen manga spectacularly, because it never feels forced or unnatural and stays true to the creative spirit of the series. There's different types of haki the same way there are different types of devil's fruits, and haki doesn't override DFs like most power boosts do. Its one flaw is that now it's seemingly a requirement to have haki to win against someone else with haki, making it the Super Saiyan transformation of the OP series, but still - it was handled with respect for the rules set by Oda for the way the OP world works, and it hasn't gotten out of hand or completely diminished the worth of non-haki users. Nami will always be able to navigate, Robin will always be able to read poneglyphs and know historical information about places, Chopper will always be a doctor, etc. And not everyone they face is going to have haki, either.
OP isn't flawless in its treatment of the infamous "power creep" or in its treatment of secondary characters who don't have the "Super Saiyan mojo" (haki, in this case), but it still handles them both better than most shonens do.
Arlong in the East Blue saga was a legitimately threatening presence. People were scared of him. Don Krieg, too. Luffy beat them easily, so we get the point that he's strong.
Then we get Smoker, our first encounter with a logia user. Luffy, the badass who beat Morgan, Kuro, and Arlong with little effort and only struggled with Krieg because of his trickery, is completely helpless. It helps that this is right before they enter the Grand Line, a place said to be home to crazy people and events beyond what they could imagine in East Blue. The Mihawk foreshadowing was similarly well done because Zoro got obliterated, but I think Smoker's advantage over Luffy was more powerful because Mihawk was setup to be a nigh-unapproachable end goal from the moment of his introduction. Smoker is just a Captain in the Marines, and all of a sudden Luffy's got problems.
Then once in the Grand Line we see all sorts of crazy people and things, just as we were told we would, and Luffy has to get creative in order to fight back. The first half of the first half (lol) of the series has Luffy exploiting the natural weaknesses of superpowered logias in order to beat them. By this point we realize that everyone who warned Luffy was right; he's not some unbeatable badass, it's going to be tough, and the Grand Line is a scary place. Moreover, Luffy isn't even that remarkable compared to most others.
Then we see CP9 and Aokiji, and Luffy doesn't have any miracle to save him. He gets totally wrecked several times in this arc, and CP9 don't even have the logia thing going for them. In fact, what I love the most about CP9 is that they're established as a threat even before we know they have devil's fruits, and some of them don't even have theirs when we meet them. They're regular humans who've trained themselves to the limit, and their Rokushiki techniques begin to subvert the idea that devil's fruits = power. For the first time in the series the Straw Hats are really pushed into a corner in multiple ways, and forced to grow. This is where we see their fighting styles change - Luffy gets his gears, Zoro starts to bring his "spirit" into his techniques, Sanji gets fire, etc. I find it amazing the series went this long before its protagonists were forced to evolve. This was really the Dragonball -> Z moment in the series, at least for me. The Straw Hats weren't allowed to be normal anymore, or even extraordinary in the sense that a normal person would be. Unlike DB/Z, though, these monsters they had to fight were there from the very beginning, and you knew they'd have to get here eventually.
The introduction of haki kind of played off what we saw with CP9, and showed us that, again, devil's fruits are an advantage, but not a requirement. Garp is seen as Roger's equal for the most part and he doesn't have one; same with Shanks. Now we know how that's possible, despite DFs being supernatural crazy nonsense. It wasn't introduced out of nowhere and it was a creative way to reign in the power creep while also introducing it in a very organic way. Oda was even able to draw its first appearance in the series all the way back to Skypiea, which, retroactive or not, was a great way to cement its place in the OP world. Actually, scratch that - it can be traced all the way back to Shanks scaring off the Lord of the Coast in the very first chapters.
I think OP is one of the few series I've seen that handles the inevitable power creep trap of shonen manga spectacularly, because it never feels forced or unnatural and stays true to the creative spirit of the series. There's different types of haki the same way there are different types of devil's fruits, and haki doesn't override DFs like most power boosts do. Its one flaw is that now it's seemingly a requirement to have haki to win against someone else with haki, making it the Super Saiyan transformation of the OP series, but still - it was handled with respect for the rules set by Oda for the way the OP world works, and it hasn't gotten out of hand or completely diminished the worth of non-haki users. Nami will always be able to navigate, Robin will always be able to read poneglyphs and know historical information about places, Chopper will always be a doctor, etc. And not everyone they face is going to have haki, either.
OP isn't flawless in its treatment of the infamous "power creep" or in its treatment of secondary characters who don't have the "Super Saiyan mojo" (haki, in this case), but it still handles them both better than most shonens do.
i doubt that. the D's just have people like roger and luffy who pop up from time to time and cause big trouble for those in power. i bet when we get the ancient kingdom flashback we will see a similar guy to roger and luffy.
oh god we are going to get like a 60 chapter flashback to the fall of the ancient kingdom aren't we
i hope so.
Yes, please. I'll love it.
You make that sound like a bad thing.
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
It's thematic. And also a red herring. A red herring that paid off when Ace turned out to be Roger's son and not Luffy.
I don't think we're going to get one big flashback arc for the Ancient Kingdom. I think there's going to be multiple that all have loose ties that require to be filled in the future.
I do not think Oda is going to outright save everything till the end. I can see stuff about the Will of D and the Ancient Kingdom being revealed as soon as the next arc. He already revealed a bit about the D. Family in Dressrosa afterall.
I think most of the major villains will know about something relating to these mysteries. Doflamingo does afterall and we still don't know what exactly he knows (Oda might save this for chapter 800). If anyone knows the secrets about One Piece's world it's Kaido and Big Mom.
I do not think Oda is going to outright save everything till the end. I can see stuff about the Will of D and the Ancient Kingdom being revealed as soon as the next arc. He already revealed a bit about the D. Family in Dressrosa afterall.
I think most of the major villains will know about something relating to these mysteries. Doflamingo does afterall and we still don't know what exactly he knows (Oda might save this for chapter 800). If anyone knows the secrets about One Piece's world it's Kaido and Big Mom.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I'm not sure if Roger's "line" would be that important in the lost history.
The most heroic families in One Piece appear to be Monkey and Montblanc. Interestingly Montblanc Cricket's gang was called the monkey mountain alliance and prophet Usopp called the Straw Hats the Norlanders.
The most heroic families in One Piece appear to be Monkey and Montblanc. Interestingly Montblanc Cricket's gang was called the monkey mountain alliance and prophet Usopp called the Straw Hats the Norlanders.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I'm catching up on SBS, and... Rayleigh was mentioned (not by name) before he showed up, referred to as "Roger's first mate", and specifically the guy who conked Shanks and Buggy on the head.
I love how intricate the world building in this series is. This and that Kaido image (not to mention the tens of other things the series foreshadows) are just amazing.
I love how intricate the world building in this series is. This and that Kaido image (not to mention the tens of other things the series foreshadows) are just amazing.
I wouldn't mind personally since what happened during the Void Century is very important, and one of the main reasons why the world, and governments along with it's citizens of One Piece are the way they are to the present day.
That sounds amazing
Apparently a ton of people did based on SBS stuff.
Going over old SBS's is how I figured it out. I was scrolling through old one's looking for a specific picture when I saw a picture of her as a kid and it all came flooding back.
Cloud Strife
Member
I definitely did. After watching my man Sawyer7mage I was like, NO.
ssj5krillhan
Member
My bet is we saw Kaidou in his zoan transformation already or one of his zoan transformations.
Was rewatching episode 0 with Shiki in it. I was thinking cause when Smiley died its devil fruit appeared to respawn in that bag of fruits Ceasar put near it. If Roger died, and Dragon was there possible dragon found the fruit and ate it. Since Roger was fighting Shiki but there was a sudden change in weather. So Roger dies and his devil fruit respawns near, Dragon picks it up. Was thinking about this and wondering when Ace died if Doffy stayed around the battlefield to get Ace's fruit.
Of course its only true if Roger had a devil fruit. But after the devil fruit user dies it seems the fruit respawns right away. Lot of people were speculating dragon caused the change of weather during the battle with Shiki.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
You make it sound like a bad thing
gundamkyoukai
Member
Seems the next OP movie is coming out summer 2016 .
Should be awesome .
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-08-22/one-piece-gets-new-anime-film-in-summer-2016/.92002
Should be awesome .
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-08-22/one-piece-gets-new-anime-film-in-summer-2016/.92002
It'd be cool if Funimation gave it a limited theatrical run. Not on DBZ's scale but enough that it gets something.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
I can't believe Z came out in 2012.
I'm stoked to see what the theme and the main villain of the movie will be.
CrazyDiamond
Member
The fights in Film Z were the most frustrating things ever, it's like 'goddammit Luffy, Gear Second would've been so helpful there! Why didn't you use it? Just use a Red Hawk! How you just gonna use Haki without Gear Third?'
I think it's going to happen. Funimation is running a bunch of movies next year with theatrical releases.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
So I'm thinking about something Oda said years ago in the SBS - he got a question about eyepatches, a common Pirate cliche and was asked why no one has one. Oda said he was saving it for someone important...
So who could that be? It wasn't Zoro in the Timeskip, wasn't Fujitora, wasn't Kaidou. It's gotta be the 7th Schichibukai or the other Admiral right?
So who could that be? It wasn't Zoro in the Timeskip, wasn't Fujitora, wasn't Kaidou. It's gotta be the 7th Schichibukai or the other Admiral right?
ssj5krillhan
Member
Luffy at the end of the series.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I guess Shiki had peg legs. Stuff like eye patches and parrots might be what you expect from Roger's generation of pirates.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Speaking of, I wonder if the seventh Shichibukai is someone new, or someone we know?
The eye patch will probably go to Luffy or Blackbeard. Luffy's mom is an interesting theory... I actually kind of want that to be true. It would be awesome if Dragon's wife ended up being a badass.
Dragon's backstory is going to the best flashback. Ancient Kingdom will get one too, but my bet is that they will be related.
The eye patch will probably go to Luffy or Blackbeard. Luffy's mom is an interesting theory... I actually kind of want that to be true. It would be awesome if Dragon's wife ended up being a badass.
Dragon's backstory is going to the best flashback. Ancient Kingdom will get one too, but my bet is that they will be related.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Zeff had a peg leg too
More Fun To Compute
Member
Blackbeard and Zeff were both pirates in Roger's era.
For the worst generation maybe Bonney is the one who dresses most like a traditional pirate. She should get a parrot.
X Drake design is maybe playing around with the idea of an eye patch but it's more like a zoro mask.
For the worst generation maybe Bonney is the one who dresses most like a traditional pirate. She should get a parrot.
X Drake design is maybe playing around with the idea of an eye patch but it's more like a zoro mask.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
It took me a minute to remember who Hina was lol
The final fight in Z was badass. Two strong fighters trading blows and throwing their weight around. Old fashioned down 'n dirty brawling.
Hina is mad that you forgot who she was!
More Fun To Compute
Member
Come on. Admit you only remembered Hina so you could make a cage match joke.
I'd never forget Hina! I do sometimes forget about the old lady Vice Admiral! I also completely forgot about Koala being the little girl in the Sun Pirates flashback, didn't fully realize until I caught up in the anime that she was a busty young woman now and a couple of other things.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I missed Koala like a lot of people I guess.
At this point I think the worst thing that Oda could do to mess with us is casually reintroduce a Skypiea character that isn't Enel.
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