Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
That makes a lot more sense actually. It feels weird that Luffy's bounty would already be increased, and that the info woulda got out like this.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
- Start date
- Status
That makes a lot more sense actually. It feels weird that Luffy's bounty would already be increased, and that the info woulda got out like this.
"King Riku, who was fucked over by Doflamingo literally royally is going to pay the fee he set up for the game Doflamingo made during the time which he was fucking over King Riku when we hand him over the head of the crew that literally saved him and his whole kingdom."
One piece character logic.
Like, what the hell are they going to even pay with? The entire kingdom is pretty much destroyed. Dressrosa is going to have to be rebuilt from the ground up. They think they have the funds to pay a 500 mill bounty?
Omnistalgic
Member
I could see Luffy awakening his Devil Fruit when some of his underlings or crew members are sacrificing themselves because they feel Luffy is more important. Luffy has a flashback to Ace, Bon Clay, etc...and gets enraged at others losing there lives for his sake. Also, would be interesting to see more bonding between Luffy and Zoro. the trust is beautifully, unspoken, but I think Luffy may eventually find out what Zoro did at Thriller bark. So many themes Oda can explore. I see what he means with this is just the half-way point.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Im thinking not all awakenings are like that
I would assume so. That one is easy. The more complicated ones are Robin's and Brooke's fruit.
True... the awakened Zoans in Impel Down were just savage beasts.
Vulcanization! That's how his awakening would work.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Yup that's what im thinking and im sure people with a better understanding of rubber properties can come up with alot of other ideas. Brook..im thinking like he'll be able to summon like other astral souls or something he can control i mean hes already bringing the chill from the underworld into his attacks
More Fun To Compute
Member
When your main enemy is a guy with the earthquake and gravity fruits then being able to turn everything into rubber isn't really that bad.
Frozenprince
Banned
Zoro's love for booze is on the same level as Luffy's love for meat.
"I want all the sake for myself!" GOAT speech.
yeah I think some just can't work as awoken. Or are pretty tough to explain
You mean Darkness.
Issho has the Gravity fruit (or his sword does). Teach's Darkness powers work differently.
Cloud Strife
Member
So Zoan's turn into hardcore monsters. If we assume that Akainu and Kuzan were awakened in their fight then Punk Hazard is a result of their awakening affecting the environment or in other words their Logias extend into their environment.
Paramecia's are definitely tricky because there are so many random ass ones.
If I had to guess...no, I can't even guess anything besides Robin being able to sprout more limbs and Brooke maybe being able to attack or manipulate the souls of others? Idk.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
It's not a particularly original or "one-piecey" stretch, this. Bad guys extort good guys for money, whether they have it or not. You see it in crime dramas all the time, they come after some mook's family for the money said mook didn't have, and they killed him over. "Oh if you don't have it you'll have to pay it back in another way." Blah blah.
That said, I don't think they're actually talking about Usopp's bounty, but rather just various existing contracts they had with "the king of Dressrosa." Again, bad dudes, don't care what happened, they just know they're owed something and they're gonna take it. And kill the Straw Hats on the way since they hold them responsible for everything going tits-up.
We need Giant Robin made out of Robin Clones in order to fight San Juan Wolf, duhhhh
More Fun To Compute
Member
The power of the darkness fruit is gravity. It appears dark because light doesn't escape from it. Teach wanted this fruit because he worked out the power behind it's poetic name.
Issho's power is unexplained and only speculation.
If awakening changes the environment then maybe Robin could hold a knife then use the flower ability to sprout the knife in other places.
Usually, in those dramas, the mook is a victim of living in the territory controlled by criminals. This is a different level of bizarre, where the criminals are trying to cash in on a bounty to a person that not only was not only unassociated with the person who issued it, but actively fought against him on every ideological level. Literally the only connection they have is that Riku is the reinstated king of dressrosa, that now lays in ruins.
This isn't like bad guys going to extort good guys for money. This is bad guys going to good guy that is laying on the ground barely conscious from a fight with other bad guy and telling them he owes them money because the other bad guy said he'd pay them he kills the good guy's cat. But now the other bad guy is gone, so for the service of killing hte good guy's cat, they demand to be paid by the good guy who obviously has no money to pay them even if he wanted to pay them murdering his pet.
This isn't just trying to exploit the weak, it's trying to get payed by the weak specifically for the act of exploiting the weak. It makes very little sense. They're assuming Riku is some kind of politically oriented masochist.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Again, they.. don't care. Riku's affiliation is irrelevant, "the guy who owed us is is gone, you give us shit now instead." Pretty by-the-books gangsterism. They obviously don't expect him to say "lol okay," they are going there to TAKE what they feel they are owed.
And it's not Usopp's bounty that they expect Riku to honor. It's the "crucial negotiation with Doflamingo" they were in the middle of. Likely an exchange for SMILE, probably related to the various pirates doing business in the underground harbor. They don't seem particularly aware of or interested in the difference between Doflamingo and Riku, all they know is that one king was deposed for another. I know it's just a fan translation but they refer to him as "this King Riku" after saying "if the king has changed." These goons probably have no idea what's been going on in the kingdom beyond the most superficial of elements.
If you can name me 10 examples of something like this in any given fiction, specifically where criminals expect to be paid by the victims for the crime they are committing against them, I'll concede to the argument. As of now, it's classic OP where the gangsterism is pushed past the limits where it even make sense. In my experience, even gangsters understand that you shouldn't expect the people you victimized to pay them specifically for the act of victimizing them. At that point, you might as well just rob them.
The only case I can remember that comes close is when Draco Malfoy talked
about raping Luna
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
No, I don't think I'll be doing that.
And that's not what's happening anyway. They had an arrangement with an establishment and the leader of the establishment changed. It's internal politics as far as they're concerned, it does not void their arrangement in their eyes. They're pirates, after all. Feels like something you could see in a Pirates of the Caribbean film beat for beat.
whatsinaname
Member
Donflamingo was a schibukai when he announced the bounty right? Maybe they are thinking the government will pay?
It is in the abstract. I didn't want to ask for you to find specifically a case where a pirate went to recieve a bounty for the murder of that person's ally. I was just trying to make it easier on you. The point is that the situation was set up by the guy who was specifically opposed to the new guy, and the new guy is only in charge because the people who the bounty was set up on help kick him out. Like, how far is gangster logic supposed to justify this? If King Riku died and dressrosa was destroyed, would they still be demanding his corpse to pay them, just because they are so singlemindedly driven by the fact that they fulfilled a bargain made with another guy? Gangsters are criminals, not morons. They can understand when it's not feasible to go after a pay. The only argument to be made here is that this particular pirate is ridiculously stupid.
And no, nothing like that happened in Pirates, as far as I can remember. There were a lot of changes in politics, and obligations are passed down from one to the next, but I can't think of any example where pirates expected to be paid for a blatant act of aggression on a person's allies. And in any case, like you said, they're pirates. They should understand how "I'm not honoring the terms of our agreement for reasons" is a perfectly valid way of going about things.
Hm....that's probably the most reasonable assumption then. Though it seems senseless, as the actual WG has a bounty on them in any case. Maybe they were referring to Straw hats new 500 Mill one after all.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Because it's an absurd cartoon world? I mean I don't want this to sound like conceding to your initial "lol one piece" argument, but rather it's just how stories in this medium function. It's not the real world, it's obviously abstracted and absurd, it's a goofy shounen manga. Things will always be taken to extremes.
And if Riku died and Dressrosa was destroyed, they'd find the next person in line that they could blame for their deal falling apart. Probably the Straw Hats. Maybe the World Government, given that Doflamingo was a Shichibukai. Maybe they'd just overrun the ruins of the nation, enslave its people, and name theirselves its new defacto rulers. "If you can't pay us in SMILE, you'll pay us with your lives." Maybe even Kaido himself, if they weren't likely mortified by him!
I didn't say it "happened" in Pirates, just that given the kinds of things that did happen, it wouldn't feel out of place to me. And regarding "they should understand because they're pirates," pirates are not a group that react kindly to "I'm not honoring the terms of our agreement" no matter WHAT the reason is. Stereotypical fictional media pirates at least.
With absurdity, stupidity inevitably follows because absurdity is based on crazy stuff that wouldn't happen. Most crazy stuff doesn't happen because it's stupid for it to happen.
I don't really understand your objection to my calling this random pirate stupid. Oda himself at one point said the vast majority of his characters are stupid.
When asked about character IQ's, he responds with:
So why is it condescending to go "typical OP" in calling some random ass pirate a moron?
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Well, you didn't really just call some random pirate a moron, you said "One piece character logic," trivializing all One Piece characterization. That's a bit easier to object to when you like a fair amount of One Piece characters (and their characterization) like I do. Even if they're mostly charmingly Stupid.
I'm not trivializing it. Trivializing it would be implying that all they are is stupid, and I'm not saying that. I'm remarking on the generalized spread of that characteristic over the series characters as a whole. Which is an accurate generalization, something you admit yourself. It is, therefore, typically one piece.
Since you admit that, your objection isn't that I call them stupid, but stupid in the derogatory. But, unlike you, I'm not charmed by any of their stupidity, I'm more annoyed by it than not. Point of fact, I have a fair amount of contempt for most characters of OP. I have a right to those feelings, as much as you have a right to have the opposite reaction, and I have a right to express them. I'm not going to apologize for that, but I will tell you you'll never catch me insulting you for having feelings you do. OP, as a manga and product, doesn't have that luxury. If you catch me saying something unfair or untrue about OP as a manga, feel free to call me out on that too, but otherwise it's open season, as with any product, and I don't think me calling them stupid is untrue or unfair.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I can believe it. As a kid my mom threatened to whup my ass if I went farther than the block.
Again, the 'it's humor, so it can't mean anything' excuse. Ugh.
Well, then out of pure speculation, what IS the reason for the abnormally high amount of dead mothers? Does Oda just like killing Moms?
Thats because moms hold you back. Or even parents in general. You dont want them to worry, and you play it safe your whole life.
Oh, you meant that. I was refering to his cheerful answer. Of course, there is the trope of killing a women to advance characters on their cost. I won't argue anything against that. Constantly dead, evil and otherwise absent parents are a general bane for me.
Didn't seem to bother Dragon, Yasopp, or Roger much.
HM I WONDER WHAT THEY ALL POSSIBLY COULD HAVE IN COMMON THAT MOTHERS DON'T
One of my favorite authors is working on a spin off book from his main series about a mother who has raised her kids, but still wants to go on an epic adventure on her own. So she just does it.
That's the thing that drives me crazy about OP the most. All these possibilities, a world where nothing holds you back and anything can happen, and it's written with so many of these tired and pointless limitations. People were confused a while earlier when I mentioned that Oda not employing these sexist tropes would be, in and of itself, an improvement on the series, this is basically what I mean. For all of Oda's imagination, he's highly unimaginative when it comes to characterizing women outside their stereotyped roles.
Thats because dads are deadbeats and moms are dead.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Luckily at no point did I imply you don't have the right to any feelings, or that you are required to apologize for them. I know you generally feel pretty persecuted in this thread, and while I occasionally disagree moreso with the level of interest you have in certain topics than your outright stance on them, you have no need to defend your right to think something. To the same end, I will persist in my enjoyment of One Piece's characters for what they are, and defend the manga when I feel it is appropriate.
Well, Oda likes him a sad backstory. Killing the mother is a bit more emotionally jarring.
Eh...persecuted isn't the right word. I feel like a black sheep. I'm definitely an other in a place that is otherwise uniform, if only in the enjoyment of OP. I don't buy into the 'magic' of the series, for lack of a better word, so I can only respect the craftsmanship of the narrative, not the experience of it. That said, I don't have any intentions of deflating the enjoyment of others here either. When I make my posts, it's more of an awareness thing, to have people think critically of the work. Too few people do that in general, even including stuff I enjoy. But I don't feel persecuted, just highly individualized as opposed to a congruent part of the community. Maybe some of you don't like me, but I don't feel unwelcome here, and a few of you guys have said you enjoy my presence. But I am definitely unlike you in my regard of what this thread is about.
Nah. A lot of the time, the mothers don't even have a place in the story. Whose Chopper's mother? Whose Franky's? And besides, there are plenty of things you can do with a motherfigure that are tragic without just killing them off. Or atleast making their deaths heroic.
Honestly, this is kind of a disturbing trope in shonen in general. Dad's are deadbeat without actual criticism. It's not just OP, it happens in Hunter X Hunter too and others I can't name. No one calls Garp out seriously for doing what amounts to abuse and neglectment outside of a comedic tone sort of thing. No one calls out Dragon for not being there. Yasopp was idealized and still is for basically abandoning his mom.
The only shonen that actually had the child himself get pissed at being abandoned is FMA, where Ed gave Hohenhiem shit for it basically every day until the final eps.
RomanceDawn
Member
It's for Luffy for sure. A native speaker who has this issue of Jump clarified it.
Hopefully it means everyone else received an increase as well. As a matter of fact I'm sure we'll see all the new bounties during some down time/this transition period to the next Island.
As much as I enjoy this series, no. I might not live that long, I need to see Laboon's faith rewarded before I expire.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Uh yeah Veelk it's pretty common in media aimed at younger audiences. Western media does it too except they tend to make dads into bumbling fat idiots.
That doesn't mean it's a good trope to repeat over and over. "Everybody does it" isn't a good argument for social inequality.
They make both parents useless, and adults in general. Atleast it's uniform that way. Seems unfair that a father can be leading a revolutionary army, chasing his 'dream', being a king, a warrior, etc, you know, doing stuff, while all a mother can do is die once she has given birth to a child.
It's basically what Oda said. He considers mothers to be the antithesis of adventure. Because all women want to do is stay home and do womanly things, apparently. It's BS.
And yeah, what Chariot said.
Reach-ing
Disney also tried to avoid a long time to introduce parents into their lore, look at the Ducks.
Or when they do there is one parent missing.
The mothers we knew of One Piece were always painted in a bad ass light.
But Veelk gonna Veelk. Especially your last post is fucking bullshit. It is an SBS answer. Olvia? Adventurer. Bellemere? Marine Officer. Franky's Mother? Pirate.
Edit2: And you even mention that is a problem that the mothers aren't sometimes introduced? It is One Piece it may happen super late man. You ask who chopper's mother is? It is a normal fucking reindeer. Man I can't do this anymore
Or when they do there is one parent missing.
The mothers we knew of One Piece were always painted in a bad ass light.
But Veelk gonna Veelk. Especially your last post is fucking bullshit. It is an SBS answer. Olvia? Adventurer. Bellemere? Marine Officer. Franky's Mother? Pirate.
Edit2: And you even mention that is a problem that the mothers aren't sometimes introduced? It is One Piece it may happen super late man. You ask who chopper's mother is? It is a normal fucking reindeer. Man I can't do this anymore
More like every other day
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Well can you see why that may get some pushback? Excluding some oblivious individuals most of the things you bring up in this fashion are pretty well obvious and accepted, and have been for years. Presenting them as a dispassionate observer on a regular basis ends up making you seem like you're concern trolling. It's like someone saying "you know that's bad for you right" every time they eat a bag of chips. They know it, yes. Obviously they accept it and have chosen to engage with the chips anyway. It doesn't make the topic devoid of value, but once it's been discussed thoroughly the one time it stops being interesting, and comes off merely as an exercise in trying to make the junk food eater feel like a bad person.
Who is Chopper's father? Who is Franky's? They have no parents at all, just father (and in Franky's case mother via Kokoro) figures. Who died. Who are Nami's parents? She at least had a strong mother figure who yes died heroically. Same with Robin, except it was her real mother. Missing fathers for both of em though.
Raonak
Banned
Oh jeeze enough with the sexism nonsense again. One piece does a far better job than most female characters in shonen manga, sure they're always drawn sexy, but that's not a bad thing.
I personally find Veelk's efforts of raising awarness are fucking tiring because it's old points that's been gone over countless times and does nothing but derail the topic at hand.
Plus he takes very minor stuff(stuff done for comedic effect, fanservice, or inoffensive quotes) and streches and distorts them to fit his agenda.
---
Anyway, chapter 800! Straw Hat grand fleet has finally been formed
So happy!
Fujitora is best admiral.
Also loving laid back sengoku. He's exactly like garp now.
I personally find Veelk's efforts of raising awarness are fucking tiring because it's old points that's been gone over countless times and does nothing but derail the topic at hand.
Plus he takes very minor stuff(stuff done for comedic effect, fanservice, or inoffensive quotes) and streches and distorts them to fit his agenda.
Aren't you the one who's basically saying that all women want to be mothers?
---
Anyway, chapter 800! Straw Hat grand fleet has finally been formed
So happy! Fujitora is best admiral.
Also loving laid back sengoku. He's exactly like garp now.
More Fun To Compute
Member
It's intensified to every day now.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked