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[SalvaPot]

Lets look at the facts.

The World Government was made by uniting all the kingdoms into a single organization, the kingdoms retain autonomy but still respond to the WG, of all the Royal Families only one resides on their kingdom instead of living on Mariejois, Vivi´s family. The rest had descendants that we know now as the World Nobles or Tenryubito (Celestial Dragons).

We know that said WG was formed AFTER the Void Century, because during the Void Century the Alliance that would later become the WG, they defeated whoever made the Poneglyphs, and this defeated made this Poneglyphs so their version of what happened could be preserved.

So its clear the current top power does not want that truth to come out. Why? Well, we don´t really know. But its clear they obviously couldn´t destroy them, so the next best thing they could do is hide it. Deny its existence.

Of course, it would make far more sense for them to just fill in the blanks... but for all we know, they did try that. Not a lot of characters outside our main parties and antagonists know there is a Void Century in the first place, or if they do they don´t really care. Its not common knowledge. its a mystery reserved for the reader and our protagonists to find out. Remember, Nico Robin is not persecuted because she knows about the void century, she is persecuted because she could find out about what the void century actually is.

And its clear not all royalty knows about what this Void Century is about. For example, Nefertari Cobra, Vivi´s dad, knew about the Void Century and the Poneglyphs but had no idea what the Poneglyphs are actually about, and he is a Royal King, allied with the WG, why wouldn´t he know? Because the secret goes far about his level, all the way to the top, to the Gorosei.

Sure, as a subject history would be studied, but how much do we know about world history? If the WG knows that getting more people curious about it is a problem, of course they would avoid it, focusing on local history. Also the Void Century happened between 800 and 900 years ago from the current point in the story, how many reliable records could there possibly be? There is enough information in those 8 centuries to get a basic and even advanced education and, if no one knows there is something to hide there is no need to deny it.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The eventual Zoro and Sanji bromance moment draws ever closer...

 

[Veelk]

Enies Lobby note: Why does the buster call Dendenmushi have no protection to prevent accidental presses whatsoever? There's no cover to the button, no code to input, nothing. It can be pressed accidentally just by sitting on it as it's in your pocket. And indeed, Spandam activates it by pure accident, without any sort of way to rescind the order.

Ugh. It's hard to feel sympathy when the cause of all the death and destruction that would occur is pure, concentrated blinding stupidity. The design of it is basically begging for things to go wrong.

 

[SalvaPot]

Enies Lobby note: Why does the buster call Dendenmushi have no protection to prevent accidental presses whatsoever? There's no cover to the button, no code to input, nothing. It can be pressed accidentally just by sitting on it as it's in your pocket. And indeed, Spandam activates it by pure accident, without any sort of way to rescind the order.

Ugh. It's hard to feel sympathy when the cause of all the death and destruction that would occur is pure, concentrated blinding stupidity. The design of it is basically begging for things to go wrong.

Its a Context Sensitive Button.

 

[Pegosaurus]

Enies Lobby note: Why does the buster call Dendenmushi have no protection to prevent accidental presses whatsoever? There's no cover to the button, no code to input, nothing. It can be pressed accidentally just by sitting on it as it's in your pocket. And indeed, Spandam activates it by pure accident, without any sort of way to rescind the order.

Ugh. It's hard to feel sympathy when the cause of all the death and destruction that would occur is pure, concentrated blinding stupidity. The design of it is basically begging for things to go wrong.

i think it's supposed to be

"funny"

 

[Luigi87]

Enies Lobby note: Why does the buster call Dendenmushi have no protection to prevent accidental presses whatsoever? There's no cover to the button, no code to input, nothing. It can be pressed accidentally just by sitting on it as it's in your pocket. And indeed, Spandam activates it by pure accident, without any sort of way to rescind the order.

Ugh. It's hard to feel sympathy when the cause of all the death and destruction that would occur is pure, concentrated blinding stupidity. The design of it is basically begging for things to go wrong.

I've kind of always viewed it as that if one has the authority to order a Buster Call, then they must be incredibly competent and would never fuck up in such a way that they would drop the damn thing and accidentally call one.

... really I blame the Admirals for being the fuck-ups here considering whom they gave the Golden Den-Den Mushi to.

 

[SalvaPot]

I've kind of always viewed it as that if one has the authority to order a Buster Call, then they must be incredibly competent and would never fuck up in such a way that they would drop the damn thing and accidentally call one.

... really I blame the Admirals for being the fuck-ups here considering whom they gave the Golden Den-Den Mushi to.

Aokiji gave it to him, right?

Either way, the button looks pretty fragile, enough so that having it in your jacket could set it up.

So for the Buster Call to be up you actually need all the Vice Admirals and weapons ready to attack and destroy everything. See it as a nuclear stand-up, the Marines are ready to attack, they are just waiting for the order. It would be like the in the movies when they use like 3 keys and a code and remove the cover above the button and they are just waiting the order to push it.

 

[Veelk]

i think it's supposed to be

"funny"

I notice that's a common defense among OP fans.

I've kind of always viewed it as that if one has the authority to order a Buster Call, then they must be incredibly competent and would never fuck up in such a way that they would drop the damn thing and accidentally call one.

... really I blame the Admirals for being the fuck-ups here considering whom they gave the Golden Den-Den Mushi to.

This implies that competent people can never make a movement or judgement error of any kind. They can never forget that it's in their back pocket and sit on it, or just drop it or forget they left it somewhere or whatever. The idea that no one would make such an error is an aneurysm inducing stupidity by itself. Which is ignoring the fact that they can bestow it upon someone else who apparently isn't infallible.

Honestly, a simple cover over the button would have avoided all of this, and that's just a minimal precaution.

So for the Buster Call to be up you actually need all the Vice Admirals and weapons ready to attack and destroy everything. See it as a nuclear stand-up, the Marines are ready to attack, they are just waiting for the order. It would be like the in the movies when they use like 3 keys and a code and remove the cover above the button and they are just waiting the order to push it.

You don't need them ready, per se, because they're just a part of the buster call procedure. But initializing the Buster Call order, which they are apparently unable to rescind once set off, should result in a buster call roughly once a week. You could have those guys not be ready, it just means the destruction of the island will take longer, but the call itself is ironclad and makes the procedure an inevitability.

 

[SalvaPot]

This implies that competent people can never make a movement or judgement error of any kind. They can never forget that it's in their back pocket and sit on it, or just drop it or forget they left it somewhere or whatever. The idea that no one would make such an error is an aneurysm inducing stupidity by itself. Which is ignoring the fact that they can bestow it upon someone else who apparently isn't infallible.

Honestly, a simple cover over the button would have avoided all of this, and that's just a minimal precaution.



You don't need them ready, per se, because they're just a part of the buster call procedure. But initializing the Buster Call order, which they are apparently unable to rescind once set off, should result in a buster call roughly once a week.

What would you think would happen if, say, you are on vacation on an island and you seat on the button, but there is no vice admirals near you to get the Buster Call signal? How would they know what Island to attack if they do get the signal? Its clear that when they give someone the Dendenmushi for a Buster Call is because they have full intention to blow up the island, not doing so before is because they are waiting for the problem to solve "peacefully". Pressing the button is the equivalent of "I guess something went wrong inside, oh well, BLOW IT UP GUYS."

And in both instances something did go wrong. In the first one Nico Robin survived (The Call was supposed to prevent any person who could read the PG could survive), and in the second the Straw Hats successfully rescued Nico Robin and were attempting to escape. Both times, if they had not waited for the buster call, they would have likely accomplished their objective.

 

[Luigi87]

I notice that's a common defense among OP fans.


This implies that competent people can never make a movement or judgement error of any kind. They can never forget that it's in their back pocket and sit on it, or just drop it or forget they left it somewhere or whatever. The idea that no one would make such an error is an aneurysm inducing stupidity by itself. Which is ignoring the fact that they can bestow it upon someone else who apparently isn't infallible.

Honestly, a simple cover over the button would have avoided all of this, and that's just a minimal precaution.

Basically.
Yes, it's incredibly flawed, but... Well as I've been rewatching One Piece I realized something...

Quite of few of the problems that come up in the world could have been avoided had Sengoku not listened to Doflamingo of al people.

After Crocodile was defeated the WG called a meeting of the Shichibukai to discuss the Straw Hats as well as decide upon a replacement for Crocodile. Only Mihawk, Kuma, and Doflamingo show up.

But then Laffitte arrives uninvited, breaking into Mariejois of all places and asks them to hold off on deciding on a new Shichibukai and to consider their (at the time unknown) captain Blackbeard, as they were working on a plan to have him prove his worth.
... And Doflamingo says to Sengoku to give them a shot, and he does.
Which in turn leads to Ace's capture, Blackbeard becoming a Shichibukai, Blackbeard using that power to get into Impel Down, then break out the Level 6 prisoners for his own crew, and of course Ace's capture instigated the Summit War, which also led to the death of Whitebeard (causing a power vacuum in the world) and Blackbeard acquiring Whitebeard's Devil Fruit, and rising dramatically in global power becoming a Yonkou during the two year skip.

@_@


So... yeah, very flawed organization.

 

[pelicansurf]

I notice that's a common defense among OP fans.


This implies that competent people can never make a movement or judgement error of any kind. They can never forget that it's in their back pocket and sit on it, or just drop it or forget they left it somewhere or whatever. The idea that no one would make such an error is an aneurysm inducing stupidity by itself. Which is ignoring the fact that they can bestow it upon someone else who apparently isn't infallible.

Honestly, a simple cover over the button would have avoided all of this, and that's just a minimal precaution.



You don't need them ready, per se, because they're just a part of the buster call procedure. But initializing the Buster Call order, which they are apparently unable to rescind once set off, should result in a buster call roughly once a week. You could have those guys not be ready, it just means the destruction of the island will take longer, but the call itself is ironclad and makes the procedure an inevitability.

They're in an admiral's possession most of the time. So they're probably well guarded, placed in a case, whatever. The minute it's handed to a non-admiral, they're probably assuming it's getting pressed so it's basically a matter of how many people are getting off the island before shit goes down. I doubt there are more than 3-4 golden den den mushi's (1 per admiral + fleet admiral), so they're not going off the hook on a weekly basis. Maybe they self destruct after being pressed.

This is all speculation obviously because there is nothing else.

 

[SalvaPot]

Basically.
Yes, it's incredibly flawed, but... Well as I've been rewatching One Piece I realized something...

Quite of few of the problems that come up in the world could have been avoided had Sengoku not listened to Doflamingo of al people.

After Crocodile was defeated the WG called a meeting of the Shichibukai to discuss the Straw Hats as well as decide upon a replacement for Crocodile. Only Mihawk, Kuma, and Doflamingo show up.

But then Laffitte arrives uninvited, breaking into Mariejois of all places and asks them to hold off on deciding on a new Shichibukai and to consider their (at the time unknown) captain Blackbeard, as they were working on a plan to have him prove his worth.
... And Doflamingo says to Sengoku to give them a shot, and he does.
Which in turn leads to Ace's capture, Blackbeard becoming a Shichibukai, Blackbeard using that power to get into Impel Down, then break out the Level 6 prisoners for his own crew, and of course Ace's capture instigated the Summit War, which also led to the death of Whitebeard (causing a power vacuum in the world) and Blackbeard acquiring Whitebeard's Devil Fruit, and rising dramatically in global power becoming a Yonkou during the two year skip.

@_@


So... yeah, very flawed organization.

Yeah, its always been clear all Doflamingo wanted is to cause trouble, he profited on weapons and was a sadist asshole, so it makes sense.

What did Kuma did on that reunion, by the way?

 

[Luigi87]

Yeah, its always been clear all Doflamingo wanted is to cause trouble, he profited on weapons and was a sadist asshole, so it makes sense.

What did Kuma did on that reunion, by the way?

Literally nothing.
But it did demonstrate that unlike the other Shichibukai that Kuma pretty much appeared to always act in the WG's interests.

 

[SalvaPot]

Literally nothing.
But it did demonstrate that unlike the other Shichibukai that Kuma pretty much appeared to always act in the WG's interests.

Man, of all the Shichibukai Kuma has always been the most interesting to me. His Devil Fruit Power, his android body, his connection to Dr. Vegapunk, his connection to the Revolutionary Army, how he became Shichibukai, why did he protected Luffy (Remember Iva did not know Dragon had a son, neither Sabo until he got his memory back for all we know, so it seems Kuma might have been Dragon first mate?), why did he gave his mind to the WG. Why he carries a bible around.

Such a great character, and his voice on the anime is one of my favorite.

 

[Veelk]

What would you think would happen if, say, you are on vacation on an island and you seat on the button, but there is no vice admirals near you to get the Buster Call signal? How would they know what Island to attack if they do get the signal? Its clear that when they give someone the Dendenmushi for a Buster Call is because they have full intention to blow up the island, not doing so before is because they are waiting for the problem to solve "peacefully". Pressing the button is the equivalent of "I guess something went wrong inside, oh well, BLOW IT UP GUYS."

And in both instances something did go wrong. In the first one Nico Robin survived (The Call was supposed to prevent any person who could read the PG could survive), and in the second the Straw Hats successfully rescued Nico Robin and were attempting to escape. Both times, if they had not waited for the buster call, they would have likely accomplished their objective.

That's not how it's depicted in the series. The marines never get any sort of reasoning for why they're being sent out. And the Marines seemed to automatically tell it was coming from Enies Lobby. The Bustercall is the only message that has been sent out of Enies Lobby that I could see. And as far as I can tell, Vice Admirals are always on call. There was no verification process to make sure this was a legitimate need for the nuclear option. From the way it's framed, once the Buster Call is triggered, all details become irrelevant and they're being sent to blow the island up. Buster is call is recieved from Island X, Island X is going down no matter what.

So yes, the instance your describing could very well happen if we are going by the way the manga has framed the buster call. That's why it's such a stupidly flawed system.

So... yeah, very flawed organization.

Like I said, the Marines are one epic fail after another.

Yeah, its always been clear all Doflamingo wanted is to cause trouble, he profited on weapons and was a sadist asshole, so it makes sense.

What did Kuma did on that reunion, by the way?

No, his point isn't "Doflamingo is a troublemaker", his point is "Why were the marines stupid enough to listen to Doflamingo". We had a discussion way back where we discussed the Shichibukai and how the Marines were inherently distrustful of them, so why would Sengoku be like "Doflamingo giving advice? Sounds legit."

 

[Jarate]

Veelk, remember, One Piece is very much like a bugs bunny cartoon. Things are impractical and silly for the sake of being cartoony

 

[Pegosaurus]

I notice that's a common defense among OP fans.

i mean that was probably the intention

it actually being humorous is up to the reader

i think it's slightly funny

Maybe they only give out Buster Call DDMs if they think that one will be needed within a certain amount of time? Given how quickly the marines got to Enies Lobby, maybe they were already stationed near it in anticipation?

 

[Veelk]

Veelk, remember, One Piece is very much like a bugs bunny cartoon. Things are impractical and silly for the sake of being cartoony

At the risk of this devolving into metacriticism again, if the manga is going to treat the catalyst for all these horrible events as a joke just for the sake of having a joke, then it has to accept that it removes the drama of it. The fact that the buster call is so easy to invoke makes me think there is a karmic justice in which the hilarity is that completely innocent islands get bombed because someone was an idiot. Which I don't think the manga ever wants really wants me to not feel sympathy for it. There's a very thin, but fine line that separates 'silly'' from 'stupid'

Idk. You do have a general point that part of it is that my personality is just incompatible with the story. But at the same time, I've enjoyed plenty of silly stories before. Gurren Lagann in particular is even sillier than OP and I love it. It's hard for me to pin down what precisely it does differently. But whatever it is, OP sometimes just rubs me the wrong way and the things that are meant to make me laugh, make me pissed off, and what is supposed to make me sad, makes me laugh.

i mean that was probably the intention

it actually being humorous is up to the reader

i think it's slightly funny

Maybe they only give out Buster Call DDMs if they think that one will be needed within a certain amount of time? Given how quickly the marines got to Enies Lobby, maybe they were already stationed near it in anticipation?

I do agree insofar that it was meant to be funny, given the faces Spandam pulled, but it was also meant to be an 'Oh shit' moment. So I know it's meant to be funny, it's just not because this isn't because of Spandam's stupdiity so much as the stupidity of the designer. And that just makes me go "Well, what did you expect?" rather than "You idiot!", which in turn breaks the drama of the moment, because I feel it'd be more right for the island to get blown up. I shouldn't want Enies Lobby to be destroyed, especially not when the straw hats are still there. But I do because there is no way someone wasn't eventually going to press that thing by accident, even though neither the villains nor the heroes want that to happen.

I doubt that it's only close to marine stations though. What would be the point of that? The Bustercall is a nuclear option where you pull out all stops to kill everything on an island. Why limit it to just those in your close vicinity? It might take longer to get to another station, but I think they'd still do it if the Void Century is on the line.

 

[SalvaPot]

I think it says a lot about Spandam how hilariously incompetent yet genuinely dangerous he could be on that arc at the same time. He is a cartoon villain with real weapons and still has a nice amount of fans and feels believable, that is hard to pull off.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

The buster call is a sign of absolute justice. Black and white. No questions asked, follow your orders. A marine who questioned firing on one of their own ships was executed immediately.

Having no fail safe, or a way to rescind the order is in itself the fail safe. That's why it's given to only a select group of people, in situations that call for its use.

Assuming no one in their organization makes a mistake? Guess what, if they made a mistake, they never will again after this. That's the mentality.

 

[Veelk]

The buster call is a sign of absolute justice. Black and white. No questions asked, follow your orders. A marine who questioned firing on one of their own ships was executed immediately.

Having no fail safe, or a way to rescind the order is in itself the fail safe. That's why it's given to only a select group of people who's power is in their hands.

Assuming no one in their organization makes a mistake? Guess what, if they made a mistake, they never will again after this. That's the mentality.

Well, they're pretty stupid then, because there are about a thousand different ways it can still accidentally get pressed. It's not black and white justice, it's black and white insanity. It seems modeled after the mentality that you have to stick to your decisions/words, no matter how much of a mistake they were or how much you changed your mind, because going back on anything ever is dishonorable, as others in the manga often indicate.

Having an easily pressable button doesn't have anything to do with morality, and all it means is that a whole bunch of random islands are going to get destroyed.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I think it says a lot about Spandam how hilariously incompetent yet genuinely dangerous he could be on that arc at the same time. He is a cartoon villain with real weapons and still has a nice amount of fans and feels believable, that is hard to pull off.

He's also the only guy who manages to look better after getting his face mashed in (by someone who isn't Sanji)

Creepy guy

Creepy... in a kind of cool way

 

[Pegosaurus]

At the risk of this devolving into metacriticism again, if the manga is going to treat the catalyst for all these horrible events as a joke just for the sake of having a joke, then it has to accept that it removes the drama of it. The fact that the buster call is so easy to invoke makes me think there is a karmic justice in which the hilarity is that completely innocent islands get bombed because someone was an idiot. Which I don't think the manga ever wants really wants me to not feel sympathy for it. There's a very thin, but fine line that separates 'silly'' from 'stupid'

Idk. You do have a general point that part of it is that my personality is just incompatible with the story. But at the same time, I've enjoyed plenty of silly stories before. Gurren Lagann in particular is even sillier than OP and I love it. It's hard for me to pin down what precisely it does differently. But whatever it is, OP sometimes just rubs me the wrong way and the things that are meant to make me laugh, make me pissed off, and what is supposed to make me sad, makes me laugh.



I do agree insofar that it was meant to be funny, given the faces Spandam pulled, but it was also meant to be an 'Oh shit' moment. So I know it's meant to be funny, it's just not because this isn't because of Spandam's stupdiity so much as the stupidity of the designer. And that just makes me go "Well, what did you expect?" rather than "You idiot!", which in turn breaks the drama of the moment, because I feel it'd be more right for the island to get blown up. I shouldn't want Enies Lobby to be destroyed, especially not when the straw hats are still there. But I do because there is no way someone wasn't eventually going to press that thing by accident, even though neither the villains nor the heroes want that to happen.

I doubt that it's only close to marine stations though. What would be the point of that? The Bustercall is a nuclear option where you pull out all stops to kill everything on an island. Why limit it to just those in your close vicinity? It might take longer to get to another station, but I think they'd still do it if the Void Century is on the line.

no what I mean is that the Vice Admirals are told to bring their ships to X location because someone near there might initiate a buster call in the near future

do you like the characters more in Gurren Lagann than One Piece? I feel like you don't really like much of the cast, and that probably contributes a lot.

And also Gurren Lagann is aware that it is illogical too. Maybe you don't like One Piece as much because it doesn't acknowledge it's silliness?

The buster call is a sign of absolute justice. Black and white. No questions asked, follow your orders. A marine who questioned firing on one of their own ships was executed immediately.

Having no fail safe, or a way to rescind the order is in itself the fail safe. That's why it's given to only a select group of people who's power is in their hands.

Assuming no one in their organization makes a mistake? Guess what, if they made a mistake, they never will again after this. That's the mentality.

this is a good point as well.




EDIT:

just a friendly reminder that Franky's real name is Cutty Flam

I was just on Spandam's wiki page and saw that and had a nice chuckle. I totally forgot about it.

 

[Luigi87]

I think ideally people are meant to keep a GDDM in a safe location in an office or quarters, under lock and key. Admirals for example don't just walk around with one for the heck of it.

However Spandam was obsessed with his own power and vanity. By holding onto the GDDM that Aokiji gave him, he was able to use it as a constant reminder of the power he held, and lord it over Robin to demonstrate how hopeless her situation was. His arrogance was his hubris.

 

[Veelk]

no what I mean is that the Vice Admirals are told to bring their ships to X location because someone near there might initiate a buster call in the near future

do you like the characters more in Gurren Lagann than One Piece? I feel like you don't really like much of the cast, and that probably contributes a lot.

And also Gurren Lagann is aware that it is illogical too. Maybe you don't like One Piece as much because it doesn't acknowledge it's silliness?

No, OP acknowledges it's silliness much of the time. In fact, I think that's why a lot of jokes aren't funny. (When a character does something dumb/silly/nonsensical, it's immediately followed by another character screaming "Don't do that, that's dumb/silly/nonsensical. It's a whole manga filled with 'Lets explain the joke' moments). In fact, where OP often points out whats happening is silly and then laughs at itself, TTGL is just presents it's world and rolls with it. It doesn't tell you it's silly, it just is.

I always boil it down to belief. Something about GL makes me believe the characters have a real humanity to them that 99% of the people in OP don't.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Well, they're pretty stupid then, because there are about a thousand different ways it can still accidentally get pressed. It's not black and white justice, it's black and white insanity. It seems modeled after the mentality that you have to stick to your decisions/words, no matter how much of a mistake they were or how much you changed your mind, because going back on anything ever is dishonorable, as others in the manga often indicate.

Having an easily pressable button doesn't have anything to do with morality, and all it means is that a whole bunch of random islands are going to get destroyed.

The idea is that it is given to people who won't abuse them ever. In spandam's case, he was given permission to use it under his particular circumstances.

 

[Veelk]

The idea is that it is given to people who won't abuse them ever. In spandam's case, he was given permission to use it under his particular circumstances.

This has nothing to do with abuse. It's an easily pressable button that can happen through hundreds of thousands of varying instances that aren't even an admirals fault. What if he's carrying it around in his pocket and an enemy hits him, incidentally pressing the button? What if it's stolen? What if, as someone pointed out, it's just pressed via normal motions of the body while it's inside their jacket? What if they aren't paying attention and think it's a regular denden mushi. They could try to be as careful and responsible in their use of the device as possible, but mistakes happen, and there are hundreds of ways it can be pressed that are utterly outside the Admiral's control.

If this had anything to do with abuse potential, then there would be some kind of verification system that allowed only the admirals to use it. Something like a lock on the button that can only be opened with the right code that only the admirals know. But the way it is now, hundreds of thousands of things can go wrong.

This isn't dependent on the admiral not abusing the Buster Call, it's dependent on the user being infallible.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

The point is that they wouldn't have it with them in situations that don't call for them. If they have the golden den den mushi and something goes wrong, then it doesn't matter because the possibility of a buster call was always there.

And yes, the admirals must be infallible. They fuck up, someone dies. Like actual soldiers.

I think ideally people are meant to keep a GDDM in a safe location in an office or quarters, under lock and key. Admirals for example don't just walk around with one for the heck of it.

However Spandam was obsessed with his own power and vanity. By holding onto the GDDM that Aokiji gave him, he was able to use it as a constant reminder of the power he held, and lord it over Robin to demonstrate how hopeless her situation was. His arrogance was his hubris.

Yeah this.

 

[Pegosaurus]

No, OP acknowledges it's silliness much of the time. In fact, I think that's why a lot of jokes aren't funny. (When a character does something dumb/silly/nonsensical, it's immediately followed by another character screaming "Don't do that, that's dumb/silly/nonsensical. It's a whole manga filled with 'Lets explain the joke' moments). In fact, where OP often points out whats happening is silly and then laughs at itself, TTGL is just presents it's world and rolls with it. It doesn't tell you it's silly, it just is.

I always boil it down to belief. Something about GL makes me believe the characters have a real humanity to them that 99% of the people in OP don't.

fair enough

also, that post about Spandam being super egotistical makes a lot of sense too

 

[Veelk]

The point is that they wouldn't have it with them in situations that don't call for them. If they have the golden den den mushi and something goes wrong, then it doesn't matter because the possibility of a buster call was always there.

And yes, the admirals must be infallible. They fuck up, someone dies. Like actual soldiers.

Actual soldiers have precautionary mechanisms built into their weapons. Guns have a safety and are taught to handle weapons in such a way so that misfires don't happen. The process to launching a nuclear has a series of steps that don't allow for accidental launches. And more precautions are being built as we go along. There arlready ID tagged guns that won't fire if the correct circumstances aren't met. Actual soldiers aren't just handed weapons of mass destruction and told "don't fuck up"

I think you're trying to portray the system as flawed, but having to be because they're only human. It is true that no system of security is perfect, but this isn't even trying. There are a lot of measure they can take to be taken so accidents like the one Spandam caused don't happen and they don't and there is no reason for why they shouldn't, making them not flawed in the human way that everyone is, but just moronic. It's humanly flawed in the same way this scene is, not because the person isn't infallible, but because they're flat out stupid. Except in that case, vincent is ignoring the safety features. In this case, there aren't any safety features to speak of.




Edit: Another question: Why don't they kill Robin during the Enies Lobby Arc. I realize they probably want to do an appropriate execution, but so they're willing to have her come during Waters 7 of her own will. However, by the time the strawhats arrive at Enies Lobby, things are going to shit. I don't really understand why Spandam doesn't just stab her to death. And then, when he's finally driven away, the Buster Call Vice Admirals all say that they should destroy everyone EXCEPT Robin. Maybe I missed a line that explained it, but isn't she the primary target above all? Once things started going to shit, shouldn't she have been the first to be eliminated?

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

So does anyone know why the WG hasn't made up some kind of lie about what happened in the void century? Most of the time, when people try to cover something up, they....cover it up with something. Some kind of false pretense of what actually happened.

It really doesn't make sense.

There have been a lot of "big" things/concepts/ideas/events that don't make any logical sense. As a man of logic, this has always been a hard thing for me to overlook while reading OP, especially since it takes itself very seriously. I try not to think too much about those things, because it only ends up with me getting disappointed in Oda, lol.

Edit: Another question: Why don't they kill Robin during the Enies Lobby Arc. I realize they probably want to do an appropriate execution, but so they're willing to have her come during Waters 7 of her own will. However, by the time the strawhats arrive at Enies Lobby, things are going to shit. I don't really understand why Spandam doesn't just stab her to death. And then, when he's finally driven away, the Buster Call Vice Admirals all say that they should destroy everyone EXCEPT Robin. Maybe I missed a line that explained it, but isn't she the primary target above all? Once things started going to shit, shouldn't she have been the first to be eliminated?

No, at the end Spandam said that Aokiji had ordered them to kill Robin (which was a lie). At that point though she was out of her sea prism stones and they couldn't get her.

The bigger mystery of Enies Lobby is why the buster call went through, and everyone, without question, blew their own holy island up. That would never happen in reality.

 

[Veelk]

No, at the end Spandam said that Aokiji had ordered them to kill Robin (which was a lie). At that point though she was out of her sea prism stones and they couldn't get her.

No, what I mean is, the first buster call happened because they wanted to kill Archeologists that knew how to decipher the poleglyphs. They missed Robin and spent the next 20 years trying to correct that mistake. Her bounty reads "Dead or Alive", and given they would kill her themselves, it's obvious that the whole point of all this is to get her dead, correct? So at the Waters 7, CP9 were after the Pluton blueprints. When the strawhats arrived, they used Robin as an opportunity to get them AND get the Devil Child, and since she was coming along willingly, it seemed sensible to take her to Enies Lobby for the formality of a trial, but the goal was to get her dead. And she made it to Enies Lobby, and they...still didn't kill her, even when the strawhats attacked them with the distinct mission statement to take her back. But Spandam just spends the whole ark beating her up, instead of running his sword through her. This is getting ridiculous at this point, because it's obvious that any semblance of a trial is a farce and the Marines up until now had orders to kill her on sight in any case. Yet despite this, even when people were firing the Buster Call, they had specific orders not to kill Robin.

Why? I can't understand why they kept dragging her through the tower instead of cutting her down on the spot. I assumed at first it was because she was gonna be tried, but since that's a joke, surely they'd circumvent that in this case. And why would the Vice Admiral Buster Call Crew specify that they couldn't fire at the strawhats because she was with them? The whole point of this is to kill her, so whats going on? Unless I somehow missed something, like she has some information that they needed to get from her, but I hadn't seen anything like that.

The bigger mystery of Enies Lobby is why the buster call went through, and everyone, without question, blew their own holy island up. That would never happen in reality.

Yeah, if there was some kind of verification process, it would make more sense why there is no precautionary measures on the device itself, but...

 

[Jarate]

Robin was kept alive because she was one of the few people in the world that could read poneglyphs, I think it was mentioned that they needed her to read some stuff

Also, whoever said that One Piece takes itself very seriously could not be further from the truth. One Piece does not take itself very seriously. It's like a Bugs Bunny cartoon mixed with shonen.

 

[Veelk]

Robin was kept alive because she was one of the few people in the world that could read poneglyphs, I think it was mentioned that they needed her to read some stuff

Can you cite that please? I was reading fast, so I legitimately could have missed it, but I didn't see anything like that. When Robin explains her motives, it's like I described above. The deal was that if she aids their trick to get Pluton, they'll not harm her crew when they take her back to Enies Lobby to kill her. I might be wrong, but given that this whole thing focused on Robin's will to live, I am 95% sure they were gonna kill her.

And if that really is the case....*sigh*, I hate to do it again, but that simply makes no sense. First because there is not a word that she could say that they could trust. Why in the hell would she give accurate directions for how to build/find the superweapons? And second because they should really have their own guys who research the polegylphs. If they lacked that, they'd have probably offered the Ohara group instead of shooting them on the spot.

Also, whoever said that One Piece takes itself very seriously could not be further from the truth. One Piece does not take itself very seriously. It's like a Bugs Bunny cartoon mixed with shonen.

One piece takes itself very seriously. Of course it believes in the story it's telling. The proof is in the craft. What your trying to say is that it partakes in a lot of humor and silliness, but the opposite of those is not seriousness.

The Looney Tune cartoons were quite serious as well, fyi. I remember reading some stuff about Chuck Jones where he talked about how he spent hours picking precisely the correct frame of Wile E Coyote hitting that ground that elicited the strongest laugh.

 

[Jarate]

It might've been an anime only thing, as I'm not exactly sure, but I thought they needed her to read the poneglyphs to find one of the ancient weapons. I'm not exactly sure once again but that was always what I thought

And they didn't want O'Hara to stay alive because there was a large group of people in which they did not control who could figure out the void history. Robin being the only one being shown that could be easily manipulated to do the WG's bidding and they could use her as their own personal poneglyph reader. (I'm sure a select few up top can read it, but I doubt they are the types of people to go themselves to do that type of stuff)

And one piece does not take itself seriously at all. Oda has shown again and again that he treats the universe just as a playground for cool things he wants to do. There's some serious world building and some serious moments, but it's incredibly light hearted, I mean, Oda practically invents Canons out of jokes readers send him just because he finds it fun

One Piece, especially compared to most other anime/manga does not take itself seriously at all. There are way more pretentious manga then One Piece

 

[Veelk]

It might've been an anime only thing, as I'm not exactly sure, but I thought they needed her to read the poneglyphs to find one of the ancient weapons. I'm not exactly sure once again but that was always what I thought

And they didn't want O'Hara to stay alive because there was a large group of people in which they did not control who could figure out the void history. Robin being the only one being shown that could be easily manipulated to do the WG's bidding and they could use her as their own personal poneglyph reader. (I'm sure a select few up top can read it, but I doubt they are the types of people to go themselves to do that type of stuff)

Uh, I wouldn't say that was the case at all. Clover was pretty open about his findings to the WG when he talked to them. Here's how I imagine the conversation would have went if the Ohara people had any reservations of working with the WG privately.

"So we have stuff that we want you to work on. You'll get better funded than anyone else, all you need to do is work for us."

"Well..."

"Or you can say no and my magma friend liquifies your insides."

"Well funded, you say..."

And yeah, I just looked over the chapters. She says "Two conditions, 1 to help them in their scheme, and 2 to hand myself over to the WG and obey them"

But all indications were that they were going to kill her and, as I said before, they can't trust robin on any level. So I don't get it.

And one piece does not take itself seriously at all. Oda has shown again and again that he treats the universe just as a playground for cool things he wants to do. There's some serious world building and some serious moments, but it's incredibly light hearted, I mean, Oda practically invents Canons out of jokes readers send him just because he finds it fun

One Piece, especially compared to most other anime/manga does not take itself seriously at all. There are way more pretentious manga then One Piece

Your not really catching what I'm saying. The opposite of funny isn't serious, it's not funny. The opposite of fun isn't serious, it's not fun. Serious is when the story has technique and is using it to affect the reader in a particular way. A story is only not serious when it's not stopped trying. Relatively few stories aren't serious.

 

[Jarate]

Can One Piece have "serious" storytelling, Sure

Is One Piece a serious manga, absolutely not

You're looking far too deep into it man. One Piece isn't there for its incredibly consistent storytelling. It would be like looking to Dragonball for universe consistency.

 

[Veelk]

No, dude, we're arguing semantics. It's just a pet peeve of mine to hear 'serious' associated with solemnness. It's a bad word to use because it brings to mind ideas that it's 'true art', implying it's more worthwhile than 'not serious' stories. While I always felt more somber and solemn stories were more effective on me than silly and lighthearted ones were, both can be serious.

One Piece is light-hearted, silly, happy, extremely stupid and very, very serious. I don't like it and have plenty of criticisms, but very rarely not doing serious storytelling.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Can you cite that please? I was reading fast, so I legitimately could have missed it, but I didn't see anything like that. When Robin explains her motives, it's like I described above. The deal was that if she aids their trick to get Pluton, they'll not harm her crew when they take her back to Enies Lobby to kill her. I might be wrong, but given that this whole thing focused on Robin's will to live, I am 95% sure they were gonna kill her.

To me it always came across as them planning to torture whatever information they wanted (the ancient weapons) out of Robin & killing her once done with her.

Keeping her alive was only for utility reasons, not because the marines wanted to keep her alive in the long run.

Also keep in mind that there were only two viable sources to figure out the ancient weapons: Robin or the blueprints iceberg had. Robin was more of a last resort option in case they failed to get the blueprints. If they managed to get those I doubt they would've kept Robin alive for much longer.

 

[Veelk]

To me it always came across as them planning to torture whatever information they wanted (the ancient weapons) out of Robin & killing her once done with her.

Keeping her alive was only for utility reasons, not because the marines wanted to keep her alive in the long run.

Also keep in mind that there were only two viable sources to figure out the ancient weapons: Robin or the blueprints iceberg had. Robin was more of a last resort option in case they failed to get the blueprints. If they managed to get those I doubt they would've kept Robin alive for much longer.

Hm....maybe. I don't know how effective torture would be in this universe. On one hand, it's a bad means of getting information without some kind of verification step. On the other hand, it's fiction so it might work. On the other other hand, this is one piece where people have wills of iron and will never break if they're the good guys, which Robin is. So idk.

It sounds reasonable, it's just that they never say that. They're stated goal as far as I could tell was to have her executed. I'm willing to go with your explanation, but I feel like it's fanon. It's a good one, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around why the WG, who have to know the secret that they are keeping under wraps, wouldn't have their own archeologists (or else sought them out to join them) studying the Poleglyphs. Robin learned all she did from the stuff the Ohara people had. If they want to their own agents to know the Poleglyphs, then it'd be far more sensible to hire the Ohara archeologists or else steal their books before they try to burn them down. And, if nothing else, since her bounty reads dead or alive, I imagine marines would have preferred to have dead than alive and escaped.

 

[Tathanen]

Well, we already know that Aokiji is kinda looking out for Robin by this point. It's conceivable that the "capture don't kill" orders come from him, and Spandam is just abiding by them. When he snaps and orders her dead at the end he does invoke Aokiji's name to do it.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

One Piece is light-hearted, silly, happy, extremely stupid and very, very serious. I don't like it and have plenty of criticisms, but very rarely not doing serious storytelling.

You say you don't like it, but I've concluded that there are some aspects to One Piece that you do like, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Pegosaurus]

You say you don't like it, but I've concluded that there are some aspects to One Piece that you do like, whether you want to admit it or not.

he has mentioned before that there are parts of it he does enjoy

 

[Veelk]

Well, we already know that Aokiji is kinda looking out for Robin by this point. It's conceivable that the "capture don't kill" orders come from him, and Spandam is just abiding by them. When he snaps and orders her dead at the end he does invoke Aokiji's name to do it.

I'd buy that, except the leaders of CP9 (either Rob Lucci or Spandam depending on the circumstance) are kind of psychopathic and also this wasn't unusual circumstances. It's hard to see things falling apart the way they are, and having the admirals still go out of their way of not preventing the escape of someone as dangerous as Robin under any circumstances. Yeah, Aokiji might have ordered to take Robin alive, but that was only for when she was cooperating. Once the straw hats went to town, keeping Robin alive was getting progressively less justified, and it was just absurd by the end, where they razed literally every part of Enies Lobby except for the one person whom they mean to kill in any case.


Speaking of which, how in the HELL did Aokiji not get demoted to petty officer for the shit he pulled, if this is the case. I know he's a admiral, but considering how bad he fucked things up. He ordered Robin to be kept alive even though they were going to summarily execute her regardless, he was around during the Enies Lobby incident and did nothing when he could have helped, gave the Buster Call to an incompetent who then used it to raze one of the most significant strongholds they had, allowed the escape of the strawhats with what they consider one of the most dangerous people on earth that can awaken the weapons they so fear, and they didn't even inflict any casualties on neither the pirates nor the group that they brought with them.

It's amazing they didn't nail his ass to the wall for this shit. I wonder how he justified it. I know the WG can be pretty damn lenient on their marines, but I wonder if they ever had as big a fuck up as Aokiji gave them.

You say you don't like it, but I've concluded that there are some aspects to One Piece that you do like, whether you want to admit it or not.

Like Pego said, I am more than willing to give OP it's due on the aspects I think it delivers on. I just think it's shortcomings are numerous and significant.

 

[Lunar15]

Veelk, go watch some japanese crime dramas and samurai films. Everything will make sense.

One piece is basically more of a mafia story than it is a pirate story. Criminal families with a strong sense of honor, cops with their own different senses of justice, a corrupt system, tragic backstories, etc.

I dunno, I'm a big snob of stories, but I care more about how everything thematically ties together (which oda excels at) than how everything logically ties together (which oda isn't as good at, but you know, it's not terrible either).

I'd never say one piece is perfect, and there's dozens of logical gaps in much of it. But overall it's sound enough for me to ignore, especially considering I think Oda manages to be pretty poignant for a shonen manga.

The best thing he does, in my opinion, is give each character a motivation. That motivation may be silly, but it's defined pretty well from the start and is always kept fairly consistent.

 

[Pegosaurus]

I'd buy that, except the leaders of CP9 (either Rob Lucci or Spandam depending on the circumstance) are kind of psychopathic and also this wasn't unusual circumstances. It's hard to see things falling apart the way they are, and having the admirals still go out of their way of not preventing the escape of someone as dangerous as Robin under any circumstances. Yeah, Aokiji might have ordered to take Robin alive, but that was only for when she was cooperating. Once the straw hats went to town, keeping Robin alive was getting progressively less justified, and it was just absurd by the end, where they razed literally every part of Enies Lobby except for the one person whom they mean to kill in any case.


Speaking of which, how in the HELL did Aokiji not get demoted to petty officer for the shit he pulled, if this is the case. I know he's a admiral, but considering how bad he fucked things up. He ordered Robin to be kept alive even though they were going to summarily execute her regardless, he was around during the Enies Lobby incident and did nothing when he could have helped, gave the Buster Call to an incompetent who then used it to raze one of the most significant strongholds they had, allowed the escape of the strawhats with what they consider one of the most dangerous people on earth that can awaken the weapons they so fear, and they didn't even inflict any casualties on neither the pirates nor the group that they brought with them.

It's amazing they didn't nail his ass to the wall for this shit. I wonder how he justified it. I know the WG can be pretty damn lenient on their marines, but I wonder if they ever had as big a fuck up as Aokiji gave them.



Like Pego said, I am more than willing to give OP it's due on the aspects I think it delivers on. I just think it's shortcomings are numerous and significant.

didn't all the blame get shifted onto Spandam?

edit: Veelk, Robin was definitely wanted alive. The Buster Call marines deliberately didn't attack the bridge at Enies lobby because Robin was standing on it. That should answer most of the points you had about her execution and what not.


Chapter 420, the marines say that their only goal is "to get Nico Robin on the convoy"

Chapter 421: "The criminal Nico Robin, who is on the Bridge of Hesitation, will be excluded from the targets!!"

Aokiji did order to keep her alive.

 

[Tathanen]

edit: Veelk, Robin was definitely wanted alive.

He knows that, the debate at this point is about why they wanted her alive, especially after all the events of Enies Lobby.

 

[Pegosaurus]

He knows that, the debate at this point is about why they wanted her alive, especially after all the events of Enies Lobby.

oh

welp

i don't think there's an answer to that

 

[Tathanen]

oh

welp

i don't think there's an answer to that

 

[Lunar15]

It was my understanding that they wanted to get information out of her THEN execute her. That's why they wanted her alive. I also somewhat remember Spandam saying he wanted to get information out of Robin himself, in case there's anything he could eventually use against the government.

The knowledge she had was so incredibly important that they were willing to raze everything else in order to get it.

The story is also presented in such a fashion to show how short-sighted the government and the marines are with the concept of the Buster call, and it's pretty succinctly pointed out: All the marines see when they issue a buster call is a map, but not what's on it. All they see is a singular goal and they're willing to destroy everything else at the expense of innocent lives.

This contrasts with luffy's crew, who are willing to sacrifice their dreams in order to save one member.