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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue
- Thread starter Cloud Strife
- Start date
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Cindi Mayweather
Member
She did say she had to laugh or she'd be made fun of too.
Ganzlinger
Member
There is more to come from Reiju in Sanji's flashback. So far, she isn't that bad. Kids are sometimes really mean and the lack of education (Judge) is the biggest problem in the flashbacks (of corse the boys are still terrible). However, as a grown up, Reiju has been decent while dealing with Sanji, except from the handcuff situation which wasn't her idea, and people are even questioning now if she could have put fake ones. I wouldn't be surprised if she helped him escape in the past or if she ends helping him now.
UnemployedVillain
Member
That doesn't make her better. Maybe not as bad, but definitely not a good person
BobTheFork
Member
Makes her worse IMO. You can argue the other 3 don't know any better
Ganzlinger
Member
True, but she was a kid. Sometimes we judge kids like they should have a moral and understanding of a 20 years old. Also, we are so used to see the Strawhats being heroes and noble souls that when we see people being human, we think they are scum. Reiju isn't good but her behavior is understandable.
Jesus, Sanji's backstory just keeps getting more and more tragic. I can't stand these damn Vinsmokes!
But man, I wonder if Sanji is truly a "normal" human, or if he's just a late bloomer. Would be interesting for him to just spontaneously gain another fucking skeleton, that would be a hell of a power-up. No more Vergo leg fractures! Yeah that would be cool . . . but there is a lot of appeal in Sanji getting his payback without any of those genetic enhancements. Flesh and blood Sanji surpassing his brothers would be pretty great. Guess I'm cool with either scenario!
But man, I wonder if Sanji is truly a "normal" human, or if he's just a late bloomer. Would be interesting for him to just spontaneously gain another fucking skeleton, that would be a hell of a power-up. No more Vergo leg fractures! Yeah that would be cool . . . but there is a lot of appeal in Sanji getting his payback without any of those genetic enhancements. Flesh and blood Sanji surpassing his brothers would be pretty great. Guess I'm cool with either scenario!
I think Sanji is the only one that i liked because it makes his relationship with Zeff even more important
Sanji has always been one of my favorites but this arc helps a lot to take that even further
That face in the panel cloud has as an avatar now. Them feels. I soooo want to see sanji get free from the blackmailing and those cuffs and kick those motherfuckers til they die. All of them (except for reiju).
That face in the panel cloud has as an avatar now. Them feels. I soooo want to see sanji get free from the blackmailing and those cuffs and kick those motherfuckers til they die. All of them (except for reiju).
Meh, I get where's she's coming from, but I honestly didn't respect that at all. Felt really shitty.
NHarmonic.
Member
Reijuu is that person who trashes you in public and argues she's obligated to that because of cowardice, but damn she's seen enjoying herself on those flashback panels.
Trash like the brothers, but yeah watch her be the one who takes sanji off the cage.
I'd rather Sanji be a normal dude and just surpass his family as such.
Ganzlinger
Member
She never hit Sanji, never insulted him, saved Luffy's life and thanked the Strawhats for taking care of Sanji. However, she is still loyal to her family. If she is not lying, she is clearly better than the rest, which doesn't mean she is a good person, but she is not rotten to the core like she called Yonji. That's pretty much clear.
Where do you see her enjoying it? There are extra panels that show her real reaction before she starts laughing
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I want them all of them to get their shit kicked in by a regular human Sanji. If Luffy and the SH's fight any of them I'll me disappointed. I want Sanji to take down every single non-Reiju Vinsmoke! Then I want Big Mom's crew and the Strawhats to torch their entire fleet!
Cloud Strife
Member
I think Oda adding the genetic shit in is a way for him to explain how Sanji goes on fire randomly (really hilarious if you think about it, since we always assumed it was just a gag but this whole time...). If that's true then I'd like for them all (Judge especially) to see that Sanji wasn't a failure and that he ended up being far superior to them.
Also something I'm curious about...where was it ingrained in Sanji to not harm women? We know it wasn't with Zeff...and now we're seeing the flashback but nothing has really indicated a sudden shift or respect for women thus far. Assuming Reiju was the one who saved him, was she maybe beaten for helping out? Maybe that's what made Sanji decide never to hurt women? Idk.
Also, why does Judge need to fake Sanji's death? I'm pretty sure everyone at Germa would have accepted Sanji was just shit and have been fine with him being killed. Not sure the roundabout methods were really necessary.
Bounceounce
Member
Flashback Reiju is just a kid,I have no reason to call her a shitty person for her actions then.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I honestly agree with this let sanji wreck his family. Have the strawhats fight a few of big moms crew mates or something I mean obviously they need to help him get out of the situation first but luffy beating any of them for sanji because he couldn't would piss me off
Yeah this is the key thing for me. She has real concern for Sanji's welfare, and was willing to (secretly) defy the rest of the family to bandage him up. It's a small gesture, but it shows her true feelings, even if she's only willing to risk so much.
Clearly Reiju is going to come out of this arc better than the rest of the family. I'm expecting there to be a moment when she's forced to choose a side once and for all and she'll probably go with Sanji.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I agree with whoever said earlier that I'd be fine with if Sanji got a power up or kicked ass as regular ol' "inferior" Sanji. So long as their asses go down.
But I feel like Sanji getting an upgrade would undermine the storytelling here. The story shows that Germa thinks genetic are everything and like the Nazi's need to be proven wrong. If Sanji gets his second skeleton, then he is basically a "success" and Germa's philosophy will be proven right. So I'm fine either way, but ideally, I want Sanji to take em out with out evolving.
Reiju's had several panels of her watching in silence with a weird expression, which I suppose you could interpret as either cruel or worried. I definitely think there is going to be a lot more to her then what has been shown so far, and her internal conflict might be the "other" story we see in Germa 66 alongside Sanji's.
I hope Oda stays with Sanji for a few weeks here because it's really interesting. I have been dragged back in to reading onepiece again by it.
I hope Oda stays with Sanji for a few weeks here because it's really interesting. I have been dragged back in to reading onepiece again by it.
Agreed. Sanji being stronger than all of them while still being normal would fit in here a lot better thematically.
Also, I'm still on team "Sanji is actually stronger than all of them right now." He's always getting beat after they bring up Zeff or throw some bystander into the fight as a shield. Oda's gone through a lot just to make sure Sanji doesn't have a real fight with his family yet and I can't help but think it means he's already surpassed them. When the shackles finally come off it may well be a curb stomp battle.
Omnistalgic
Member
100% agreed....that hax was nonsense and Sasuke should have lost a bunch of limbs or something, but at least he got his butt kicked by 8 tails lol.
Ganzlinger
Member
Well, he said a few chapters ago that having him locked could be proven useful, and that's exactly why he remembered him when Big Mom demanded one of his sons. Also, he must have spent invaluable resources on Sanji, so having him around would be better than terminate any potential he had.
I guess he is also ashamed that Sanji has his blood and couldn't develop the enhancements. Saying that he died young, perhaps before awakening it, sounds better than having him around as a constant reminder that one of his sons is a failure to everyone.
Cloud Strife
Member
Oh yeah, I definitely agree. What I meant was that, if you look at Niji's electric powers (likely as a result of his modified cells), Sanji's fire powers can be fully explained.
It started as a gag, but all along Oda was showing us that Sanji just hadn't developed his powers as quickly as his siblings, only to be fully developed with his time as a Strawhat. I don't want Sanji to have a power up, rather, I think everyone in Germa is going to realize he's just as good, if not better than his brothers and Reiju.
Sanji isn't necessarily "normal" by any means, but we can say that he didn't grow at all with Germa but with his friends, which can comparatively show that Germa/Judge's methods ain't hot shit.
Hmm, makes sense. I figured the soldier at the end of the chapter alluded to Sanji being killed down there, but I suppose they could have easily meant that they were just going to carry on without Sanji.
Yeah Judge is pretty petty, so that also makes sense.
Ganzlinger
Member
What makes me tear my hair out even more is that...Tobi was there!
Why didn't he just save Sasuke? He can wrap into another dimension and pop right out, why didn't Kishi do that? Especially not even 2 chapters later, he shows Tobi survived and is the secret leader of Atasuki and is a more serious character.
Kishi think your story though!
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Ichiji looks like a Leiji Matsumoto design here and I LOVE IT.
Oh yeah, I definitely agree. What I meant was that, if you look at Niji's electric powers (likely as a result of his modified cells), Sanji's fire powers can be fully explained.
It started as a gag, but all along Oda was showing us that Sanji just hadn't developed his powers as quickly as his siblings, only to be fully developed with his time as a Strawhat. I don't want Sanji to have a power up, rather, I think everyone in Germa is going to realize he's just as good, if not better than his brothers and Reiju.
Sanji isn't necessarily "normal" by any means, but we can say that he didn't grow at all with Germa but with his friends, which can comparatively show that Germa/Judge's methods ain't hot shit.
If that's the case, Sanji has already made his outer shell come out and he's just like his brothers. Either that, or he's still a normal human but capable of achieving the fire through his gene manipulation.
Omnistalgic
Member
lol...thank God for OP.
Naruto has its moments (I think I shed a tear when he said goodbye to his mom after just meeting her) but OP has always been more consistent.
Sanji's backstory also explains two questions:
1. Why wasn't his father looking for him? If they wanted, they would have find him easy.
2. Why didn't Sanji try to keep a low profile (similar to Robin) to hide from his family? His inaccurate wanted poster were always a accident, never an clear goal of him.
The answer would be a silent agreement. The Vinsmoke think of Sanji as a waste of biomass and since he was "dead", nobody was looking for him. So as long as he wasn't misusing his name to get advantages, they didn't care for him. Sanji knows this and wanted to cut all ties with his family anyway. So he simple kept his past and family name a secret. So even if he would became infamous, they wouldn't have any interest in him.
That's why, he was only annoyed to hear from his family at first . If it wouldn't have been for the diplomatic wedding and his father wish to not "waste" any of his "good" children, they would still have ignored him.
Those points help to difference his backstory and Robin's.
1. Why wasn't his father looking for him? If they wanted, they would have find him easy.
2. Why didn't Sanji try to keep a low profile (similar to Robin) to hide from his family? His inaccurate wanted poster were always a accident, never an clear goal of him.
The answer would be a silent agreement. The Vinsmoke think of Sanji as a waste of biomass and since he was "dead", nobody was looking for him. So as long as he wasn't misusing his name to get advantages, they didn't care for him. Sanji knows this and wanted to cut all ties with his family anyway. So he simple kept his past and family name a secret. So even if he would became infamous, they wouldn't have any interest in him.
That's why, he was only annoyed to hear from his family at first . If it wouldn't have been for the diplomatic wedding and his father wish to not "waste" any of his "good" children, they would still have ignored him.
Those points help to difference his backstory and Robin's.
Isn't that just his cigarette catching the floor on fire?
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yeah, I think Sanji's story is even more tragic than Robin's, in a way. Instead of losing his loved ones he never had them to begin with. They're the #$%$ing nazis of the OP world and made his life a living hell. I think what really seals the deal is that kid Sanji seems earnestly eager to please his father and be like his siblings, and doesn't understand why they disapprove of him despite him trying his best.
Ganzlinger
Member
The floor doesn't look flammable to me. It also coincides with a moment of rage from Sanji, besides, I think it's an odd decision to focus a panel on that. It's just a theory but might be a hint or foreshadow to something.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
I'm not sure Oda will go with Sanji having some hidden latent powers. I feel like his whole arc is goit to be centered on him surpassing his family through his own strength achieved through hard work. It fits with Sanji's character.
Look at the detailing in the panel with the cigarette. It's supposed to be carpet.
Ganzlinger
Member
Hmm. Yeah, it could be. Anyway, I still think it's odd to waste panels on such a trivial thing.
RomanceDawn
Member
Does anyone else feel like Oda is being all meta and referencing the fans themselves and their perception of Sanji when it comes to the Vinsmokes? Not all fans obviously as there will forever be debate between everyone regarding the "hierarchy" of the crew but all the harsh language against young Sanji as being a dud and falling behind sounds like a ton of observations we see absolutely everywhere within One Piece communities.
With Vergo I view it as Sanji taking on the biggest bad of the arc before Law or Luffy. Caesar was the target sure but Vergo was there to protect Caesar. Sanji's role in that moment was to hype Vergo and leave him for Law to overcome his child hood trauma. When I look at the fight I see Sanji sending Vergo flying twice, dodging all of Vergo's attacks and only taking damage when Sanji attempted to block Vergo's kick. With Sanji getting no other 1on1 within the arc I think its easy to see why peoples perceptions of Sanji could have fallen.
During Dressrosa Sanji is the first of our main cast to take a shot at Doflamingo. Doflamingo acknowledges his strength but ultimately puts him down. At the time I really did think Sanji would score one clear hit but thinking about it now, Doffy was nearly untouchable the entire series. From the War Lord meeting, to the war and up until that point the most that anyone had done was give Doflamingo a cut a across his cheek. It was only fitting that Luffy, the natural enemy of the God's, would have the first true major strike against Doffy. Not only that Luffy has been shown to be the only character to break Doffy's strings and that was at the climax of the arc. I don't see Sanji getting tangled in Doffy's web as a sign of weakness.
Then of course you have Zoro's time skip record of taking almost no hits at all aside from drowning, falling asleep and then being zapped by Carrot. Not even Luffy can claim that but Zoro and Sanji will always be two halves of the same whole so its only natural that folks compare them to one another.
These are just my interpretations and can be argued every witch way until Sunday and thats just for the battles. Then you have his personality and actions that seemed to really rub people the wrong way within the past few years. The over done nose bleeds, telling Jinbe to kill himself, putting razor blades in Zoro's food, squeezing Nami's breasts, telling the PH kids he hates them, saying he heard the tear drops of a lady, and thats just on the top of my head. So not that any of that was Oda's intent to make anyone hate on him but well, just check back, it seems like every chapter these things came up there was a pretty vocal group constantly going on about how much they are disliking Sanji. I think Oda was pretty aware of how Sanji has been perceived in recent years and is on a story telling crusade to make sure Sanji is redeemed in everyones eyes.
Too be clear I don't think Oda was purposely making out Sanji to be unlikable with his personality, I loved that he hates the kids, heard Tashigi's tears and put razors in Zoro's food. I do however believe Oda has purposely been holding back on Sanji's big moments when it comes to his contributions in battles since the time skip specifically to tare down his perception and have characters within the story repeat some of the same exact ideas actual fans have been vocal about. With this chapter, every awful thing the Vinsmokes have said about Sanji has a nasty bite to it, much more so than any character talking ship about another because wow, how many readers out there feel the same way?
Think back to the Mera Mera/Flame Flame Fruit times and how Sanji was falling behind and needed the power boost.
Then I think about this quote here and I can't help but think Oda is really applying this to Sanji but not just strength, in his over all character as well.
With the RH- blood revealed I imagine Oda was planning on a Sanji focused arc for sometime and ever since Zoe it seems like Oda has been more than happy to give us constant Sanji gushing. Be it the Mink's calling him a savior, Luffy telling everyone he's worth like 1,000 men in a battle, Chopper impressed at Sanji's cooking notes, Vito slobbering all over Sanji, Pudding infatuated or impressed with him(I think) and of course all of his characterization ever since he was taken captive within Totland, seems like everyone(us readers) has just been loving Sanji lately.
Things seem to be purposely vague and unclear where Sanji stands against his blood family but you can bet Oda is going to have Sanji performing some outrageous feats that will have people wondering why they ever questioned Sanji's place in the monster trio.
With Vergo I view it as Sanji taking on the biggest bad of the arc before Law or Luffy. Caesar was the target sure but Vergo was there to protect Caesar. Sanji's role in that moment was to hype Vergo and leave him for Law to overcome his child hood trauma. When I look at the fight I see Sanji sending Vergo flying twice, dodging all of Vergo's attacks and only taking damage when Sanji attempted to block Vergo's kick. With Sanji getting no other 1on1 within the arc I think its easy to see why peoples perceptions of Sanji could have fallen.
During Dressrosa Sanji is the first of our main cast to take a shot at Doflamingo. Doflamingo acknowledges his strength but ultimately puts him down. At the time I really did think Sanji would score one clear hit but thinking about it now, Doffy was nearly untouchable the entire series. From the War Lord meeting, to the war and up until that point the most that anyone had done was give Doflamingo a cut a across his cheek. It was only fitting that Luffy, the natural enemy of the God's, would have the first true major strike against Doffy. Not only that Luffy has been shown to be the only character to break Doffy's strings and that was at the climax of the arc. I don't see Sanji getting tangled in Doffy's web as a sign of weakness.
Then of course you have Zoro's time skip record of taking almost no hits at all aside from drowning, falling asleep and then being zapped by Carrot. Not even Luffy can claim that but Zoro and Sanji will always be two halves of the same whole so its only natural that folks compare them to one another.
These are just my interpretations and can be argued every witch way until Sunday and thats just for the battles. Then you have his personality and actions that seemed to really rub people the wrong way within the past few years. The over done nose bleeds, telling Jinbe to kill himself, putting razor blades in Zoro's food, squeezing Nami's breasts, telling the PH kids he hates them, saying he heard the tear drops of a lady, and thats just on the top of my head. So not that any of that was Oda's intent to make anyone hate on him but well, just check back, it seems like every chapter these things came up there was a pretty vocal group constantly going on about how much they are disliking Sanji. I think Oda was pretty aware of how Sanji has been perceived in recent years and is on a story telling crusade to make sure Sanji is redeemed in everyones eyes.
Too be clear I don't think Oda was purposely making out Sanji to be unlikable with his personality, I loved that he hates the kids, heard Tashigi's tears and put razors in Zoro's food. I do however believe Oda has purposely been holding back on Sanji's big moments when it comes to his contributions in battles since the time skip specifically to tare down his perception and have characters within the story repeat some of the same exact ideas actual fans have been vocal about. With this chapter, every awful thing the Vinsmokes have said about Sanji has a nasty bite to it, much more so than any character talking ship about another because wow, how many readers out there feel the same way?
Think back to the Mera Mera/Flame Flame Fruit times and how Sanji was falling behind and needed the power boost.
Then I think about this quote here and I can't help but think Oda is really applying this to Sanji but not just strength, in his over all character as well.
With the RH- blood revealed I imagine Oda was planning on a Sanji focused arc for sometime and ever since Zoe it seems like Oda has been more than happy to give us constant Sanji gushing. Be it the Mink's calling him a savior, Luffy telling everyone he's worth like 1,000 men in a battle, Chopper impressed at Sanji's cooking notes, Vito slobbering all over Sanji, Pudding infatuated or impressed with him(I think) and of course all of his characterization ever since he was taken captive within Totland, seems like everyone(us readers) has just been loving Sanji lately.
Things seem to be purposely vague and unclear where Sanji stands against his blood family but you can bet Oda is going to have Sanji performing some outrageous feats that will have people wondering why they ever questioned Sanji's place in the monster trio.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Romance dawn coming in with the facts like usual!
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Nah sanji ranks fairly high in all the polls but among Internet communities the minority is always the loudest
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I didn't know Sanji was regarded as embarassing until this thread. I mean, granted I wasn't big on him until this arc but he was very much a part of the monster trio to me.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Didn't become a thing until the new world. People will even argue you down now that Franky and Robin can beat him easily
To be fair, Robin can beat most opponents easily. She's under the Pannacotta Fugo effect, an overly strong power that makes it difficult to write good fights.
So the theory here is that Oda goes on internet forums to listen to what a small faction rando's thought about one of his more popular characters and then changes the story based on that?
That seems kind of reactionary writing. That isn't necessarily good or bad, but it's a bit weird I think.
Honestly, I think the whole thing just started because Blackleg is such a Sanj stan and people just started ribbing him about his bad luck in these past arcs. Even for me, Sanji actually is my least favorite, but that's just not saying much when I don't like most One Piece characters. I don't think he's much worse than Luffy, for example.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Huh? I didn't even write that whole post so what's this about..
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