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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue

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Ray Down

Banned
Thoughts later for me sleep time
SleepingLuffy.png
 

Majukun

Member
Sorry, just got home.



What was the original plan? They were just going to show up and bust Sanji out, right? The point is that now they think they have the element of surprise with Pudding magiclal secret route. It's a trap in the sense that Big Mom is luring them to WCI, rather than waiting for them to show, she now controls how they are going to act and where they are going to arrive.

pekoms kidnapping it's the exact opposite of making them feel secure,in fact now they know for sure they are not "under radar" anymore

Why do you keep comparing Pudding to Sanji? We aren't talking about Sanji. We're talking about how she's hiding something, period. Your argument doesn't really make sense when you have fucking talking animals and people with naturally long legs and arms, so a different looking human isn't outside the realm of possibility. Sanji's eyebrows have nothing to do with this, so let's stop using that comparison and address the fact that Pudding's eye is going to be a real thing that will be a real plot point in the future. I'm pretty sure that's undeniable.

if you say so



Read above, Big Mom controls their route now. I really don't understand what your hangup is man. Why are you so willing to believe everything at face value? Think about it. Did we get a flashback with Sanji in it? Nope. He was shown in a silhouette. Pudding described him as if she had only seen his wanted poster. Black Legs? Heart eyes? C'mon, it's totally possible she is lying.

i'm not acepting things at face value,like,at all.
it's pudding suspicious,sure,awfully suspicious,but i still need a clear motivation and a clear succession of events for this trap to make sense, a trap for a trap sake doesn't make sense,it sould make for a good "aw snap" moment for the audience,but it has to make sense in the contesxt of the manga, and as things are now,big mom has no reason to make this trap,and also the meeting between luffy and pudding was initiated by luffy and not pudding,by eating her cafe.So it's either the entire town is acting,so she really isn't the owner of that cafè and they were just searching for an opening to make those two met,whatever it may be,or still the trap starts from something they had no control over.It could still be in a work of fiction,but it would be called a plothole

"Oh hey, Luffy, Big Mom wants to see you, go right ahead."

Sure they would go, but anyone on Luffy's side besides Luffy himself would be suspicious with such easy passage. Pekoms isn't that stupid.

they don't even have to interact with him,just stay away from them and if they pass enar any stationary guardpost just act like you didn not see them for some reason..even if they find it suspicious it's not like going back and leaving sanji is an option anyway

As above, it's quick and easy. Big Mom knows where they are, how they're getting there, and realistically when to expect them.
with her security netwrok i'm pretty sure she can still put surveillance over them and know where they are coming from without any trap. like making some of those sea slugs follow them.
[
B]Big Mom KNOWS Luffy is here. She said so last chapter. Why hasn't she acted then? She wants Strawhat, hence "He's finally here...Strawhat". She's waiting for them to arrive, and is helping them get there. Otherwise she would have already gotten them.[/B] Your argument is that Pudding has no reason to be "evil" since they are already going there in the first place, but she has every reason to follow Big Mom's command and trick them into doing what she wants.

beause she is not taking luffy seriously,just like she didn't at fiishmen island. she's in "go ahaead and try,strawhat" mode at the moment...if she was hellbent on stopping him at all costs,she would have trapped them at cacao island,away from sanji,but since she doesn't see him as a direct threat,she is content with just putting a surveillance on him and snatch pekoms the traitor

I really don't understand how you can't acknowledge this as a possibility, and here we are arguing semantics like always.
never said it's not a possibility,we are looking at a work of fiction here,if oda wants sanji to fall from the sky on the sunny next chapter,he can.
And i'm not even saying pudding's behavior is not suspicious,because of course it is.
But the whole "trap" still has to make sense in the context of the story, and as of now the whole thing lacks a motivation,because they were already going to whoole cake island in a peaceful way, and the meeting happened because of an indipendent action by luffy,so it's either all the town involved in the act,or they had no way to know that luffy would aven ate an entire cafè and specifically the one owned by pudding.
and even in that case,with all the town involved,they could just attack the strawhat now ,just like they attacked pekoms (or at least we are assuming he was attacked,it might all be a red herring)






It is indeed possible. I think you get too hung up on absolutes, black/white perspectives etc. All of what I'm saying is entirely possible. Likely? Unlikely? Who knows. Just as I am willing to admit I could be wrong, I am also willing to keep turning a simple discussion into a pointless debate if that's what you want to keep doing.
i just admitted is possible and i'm hang up on absolutes?
sorry for trying to use the info they gave us on the manga..i should try all those theory like "killer is a vinsmoke because he has blonde hair and it's from north blue",they take much less effort to elaborate. :p

Okay Maju. It's impossible.
just saying what i think was implied in the chapter,with the thing being scratched on a wall (instead of written) and nami (?) answering to luffy's "did pekoms write this?" with "who else could have?"
 
It's better on a marathon read.

Even on a marathon read, it's my least favorite arc. I reread the entire series last summer, and it was a real drag to get through. The art in particular is really messy. Drawing scenes underwater is hard, I get that, but damn could it be a mess.

3HRIBIr.jpg
saw this on reddit. damn i really like luffy's design there.

Nice, that's pretty cool. People didn't like GT, but SS4 was a damn good change of pace for upgraded forms.

And this arc is supposed to mirror Skypeia right now (if we keep to the New World mirrors the Old World close read), so I think, like Skypeia, everyone will be a sort of enemy after secrets get revealed blah blah blah. I do think Pudding will betray them, but not on her own. She'll be forced to tell her mom.
 

Ray Down

Banned
Re reading I think this is the first time Luffy said Pekoms name right.

He also said Plz when he asked Nami for food.

Hes growing Up :wipestear
 

Ray Down

Banned
Honestly I can't see Pudding is being evil.

We already know there can be good BM siblings with Lola, she seemed off put by BM actions when we first say her during Fishman Island.

I imagine Nami would be able to tell when someone is putting on a mask and faking her emotions while playing to lure them into a trap, I mean she did that shit for like 8+ years so she should be good at calling bullshit. Plus Luffy is usually a good judge of character and he did nothing that suggested he questioned her genuineness.

The whole flashback could be weird because maybe the conversation went differently or maybe her third eye not being shown yet is why we haven't gotten her info bubble yet.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I don't think Pudding is evil, either, although I do think her good will will be interfered with by either the Germa 66 or Big Mom.
 
This situation they are in totally doesn't look like a trap, no sir.

Germa 66 are shaping up to be good guys in this arc I think. All of their bad reputation doesn't seem to add up to much more than propaganda and salt.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I think Pudding isn't evil, but she's being forced to lie to the strawhats.

The only details she gave about sanji were out of place (turning her down) or flat out incorrect factoids that she would maybe infer about him from his wanted poster (heart-shaped eyes, black legs). She probably hasn't met him.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
i think it's implied that it's scratched on the wall of the bathroom,so that only pekoms,having actual claws,could have left it.

You'd think Jinbei would know to mention that threats would only make it worse, I mean he does know Luffy pretty well at this point.
Aladdin could've scratched it on the wall with his trident. And he doesn't know Luffy's personality at all.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Where has Aladdin even been since the Tiger flashback?
 
Alright Maju, I'm going to make a summary of my argument after addressing all these points so we can stop with the nitpicking. If you want to ignore the first responses then skip ahead.

pekoms kidnapping it's the exact opposite of making them feel secure,in fact now they know for sure they are not "under radar" anymore
And yet they are moving ahead along a secret route that Pudding gave them and will meet with her on WCI.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

if you say so

What? You don't think so? This is your argument?

i'm not acepting things at face value,like,at all.

Yes you are. See two posts down where you claim it's a plothole for Pudding to be "evil" because her meeting Luffy was apparently entirely by chance.

it's pudding suspicious,sure,awfully suspicious,but i still need a clear motivation and a clear succession of events

Sure. Here's one.

1. She's Big Mom's daughter.

Before you start claiming that Pudding can't be evil because of Lola, Lola was never in a situation where she had to choose between her friends and her mother, so we can't make that assumption.

Furthermore, she doesn't have to be evil, she just has to be scared of her mother. Also, it doesn't mean she can't turn "good" later on.

for this trap to make sense, a trap for a trap sake doesn't make sense,it sould make for a good "aw snap" moment for the audience,but it has to make sense in the contesxt of the manga, and as things are now,big mom has no reason to make this trap,and also the meeting between luffy and pudding was initiated by luffy and not pudding,by eating her cafe.So it's either the entire town is acting,so she really isn't the owner of that cafè and they were just searching for an opening to make those two met,whatever it may be,or still the trap starts from something they had no control over.It could still be in a work of fiction,but it would be called a plothole

For the millionth time, you keep getting hung up on the word trap. I posted a .gif of Admiral Ackbar and you're associating the gif to my argument when I've repeatedly said exactly what I mean.

So the "trap" or the lure, let's call it a lure, needs to make sense in the context of the manga. I've already stated why Big Mom has a reason to lure Luffy. Now she controls where and when he will arrive and can act accordingly. And no, the meeting was entirely initiated by Pudding. Pudding floated down from the sky and invited Luffy and his friends into her home. Is it possible for her to have found Luffy and interacted with him otherwise? Yes. Impossible? No. Stop thinking in absolutes.

None of that comes close to any definition of a plothole. It is entirely possible that Pudding could have sought out Luffy anyway. The reason the cafe was added, in my opinion, was to add some exposition to Pudding's character (she's a cook).

they don't even have to interact with him,just stay away from them and if they pass enar any stationary guardpost just act like you didn not see them for some reason..even if they find it suspicious it's not like going back and leaving sanji is an option anyway

This doesn't answer my point at all, and you're just repeating yourself. This post was in response to you claiming that if Big Mom wanted them there, then the guards or whatever would just let them through. I say it would cause them to be suspicious, you just say the same thing again. Obviously they are going anyways, the point is that in that scenario Pudding doesn't give them a secret route to WCI.

with her security netwrok i'm pretty sure she can still put surveillance over them and know where they are coming from without any trap. like making some of those sea slugs follow them.

Again with the trap. And "I'm pretty sure" is not an argument. Big Mom already knows they're in WCI anyway, so why track them? She doesn't need to.

beause she is not taking luffy seriously,just like she didn't at fiishmen island. she's in "go ahaead and try,strawhat" mode at the moment...if she was hellbent on stopping him at all costs,she would have trapped them at cacao island,away from sanji,but since she doesn't see him as a direct threat,she is content with just putting a surveillance on him and snatch pekoms the traitor

How does this have anything to do with your argument? You're agreeing with me here, and it's totally possible she's underestimating Luffy (everyone fucking does) like this while having Pudding guide them to WCI.

The surveillance you're taking about could be Pudding herself. We don't know either way.

never said it's not a possibility,we are looking at a work of fiction here,if oda wants sanji to fall from the sky on the sunny next chapter,he can.

Well you're doing a good job nitpicking the argument to pieces, so I'm sorry if I thought otherwise.

And i'm not even saying pudding's behavior is not suspicious,because of course it is.
But the whole "trap" still has to make sense in the context of the story, and as of now the whole thing lacks a motivation,because they were already going to whoole cake island in a peaceful way, and the meeting happened because of an indipendent action by luffy,so it's either all the town involved in the act,or they had no way to know that luffy would aven ate an entire cafè and specifically the one owned by pudding.
and even in that case,with all the town involved,they could just attack the strawhat now ,just like they attacked pekoms (or at least we are assuming he was attacked,it might all be a red herring)

At this point, read below. Everything you're arguing about is based on your definition of a trap, which by now seems like you think Big Mom is going to pop out and hop on them. There is a clear motivation, it does make sense in the context of the manga (whatever this actually means)

i just admitted is possible and i'm hang up on absolutes?
sorry for trying to use the info they gave us on the manga..i should try all those theory like "killer is a vinsmoke because he has blonde hair and it's from north blue",they take much less effort to elaborate. :p

Yeah, because you're claiming things are plotholes or don't make sense in the context of the manga. If that's true, by definition you don't think it's possible. And how am I not using the info they gave us in the manga? That seems to be what you want so read below. Everything I've said is "info from the manga".


For anyone else following Maju and my back and forth, here are my main points on why I think Pudding is "evil" or at least disingenuous. All of this is taken straight from the manga.

  • Pudding is hiding a third eye. This will eventually be a thing in the manga. Pudding also hid this eye from Sanji in the photo a few chapters back.
  • Big Mom is a tactician. We know this from Pekoms explaining both the head in the box thing to Luffy/Nami and how she organizes her sphere of power. She uses alliances and numbers.
  • Big Mom wants Luffy. We don't know why yet.
  • Big Mom has not captured Luffy yet, despite wanting him and clearly knowing he's in Totland.
  • We have not had an Oda-box for Pudding yet. She hasn't been "properly" introduced, so this suggests her current character and behavior is fake.
  • Pudding describes Sanji as if straight from the wanted poster, "black legs" "heart eyes" as if to suggest they have never met or at least she didn't give a shit about him.
  • Pudding admits to have seen Luffy's face before, but only now recognizes him after his name is said.
  • Pudding is the daughter of a fucking Yonkou and has witnessed her mother eating people and she's scared of "scary pirates"? C'mon.
  • Pedro isn't an idiot. Obviously Pudding is Big Mom's daughter and they have a right to be suspicious. Foreshadowing imo.
  • Pudding says "I can't disobey an order from Mama."
  • Sanji is not actually shown in this supposed flashback of Pudding meeting him.
  • Sanji turned down a woman. No way.
  • Pudding gives them a secret, quick route that will let them go unnoticed to WCI. Now they believe they have the element of surprise when Pudding easily could have leaked this info to her mother.
  • If this ends up following through, then Pudding will "bring" Sanji to them at the designated meeting place on WCI. Obviously this isn't going to happen. They're being lured.
  • Pekoms is now gone. So now Pudding's word is the only thing guiding them to WCI.

Despite all this, I think Pudding won't stay aligned with Big Mom for long. Pudding will be redeemed and become an ally, just based on nothing but my gut.

I could also be totally wrong here, and that's fine by me.
 

Ray Down

Banned
Where has Aladdin even been since the Tiger flashback?

When Jinbei became a Shikibukai they went back to FI and just stayed there protecting it since they could be a crew anymore, when Whitebeard died and Big Mom brough FI under her banner Aladdin and the rest of the fishman pirates joined up with her serving her.
 

Red Fire

Member
Guys ffs can you chill out with these long ass posts quoting every sentence and trying to win the argument against each other pls

Anyway, i don't think pudding is evil either. At worst it'll be a Violet situation.

I didn't think much about the sanji silhouette but now you guys got me thinking if she really hasn't met sanji yet. I'm leaning more towards her telling the truth though.
 

Red Fire

Member
Has their any hints at whether both parents are alive? Cuz I swear oda likes killing moms so...

I swear i was about to write i need to see the dad, then i was thinking hmmm wait a minute does he have a mom? Because somehow i just thought they only have a dad haha

But no nothing has been said as far as i remember
 
I swear i was about to write i need to see the dad, then i was thinking hmmm wait a minute does he have a mom? Because somehow i just thought they only have a dad haha
Previous experiences tells me she's dead. Hopefully not tho but if she is maybe whatever killed her is the reason sanji can't kick a women
 

Red Fire

Member
Previous experiences tells me she's dead. Hopefully not tho but if she is maybe whatever killed her is the reason sanji can't kick a women

Yeah sounds plausible.

That reminds me.. playing as sanji in burning blood is fucking catastrophic. If your enemy has a woman its a wasted space!!! So stupid! (though i usually still win with only 2 characters ;) )


Edit: Member, yessss!
 
Yeah sounds plausible.

That reminds me.. playing as sanji in burning blood is fucking catastrophic. If your enemy has a woman its a wasted space!!! So stupid! (though i usually still won with only 2 characters;) )


Edit: Member, yessss!
Amazon still didn't send my CE so I still don't have it. But what I played at a Buddy's...eh.

Bout time lol
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I need to see the vinsmoke family interact with sanji soooo bad. I can't wait. I'm thinking the bros won't be too friendly tho
I need to see this yesterday

I bet Ichiji and Niji at least hold some sort of grudge against him. From the brief snippets of dialogue we have we know

-Yonji said "he [Sanji] left us when he was young" but didn't say what he thought of him besides remarking that they looked alike. If they know each other I'm guessing he and Yonji are very close in age. Yonji probably holds the least amount of animosity towards him

-Ichiji said he can't wait to see Sanji again while smiling. This could be sarcastic or genuine. Ichiji looked pretty ruthless while fighting those people on Broccoli Island, though, if that says anything. He's also the heir to the Vinsmoke Family and Sanji left on purpose... hmm. Bad blood?

-Niji immediately shot down Ichiji's remark with a "liar". He looked unhappy. I'm guessing Niji has the worst relationship with Sanji.

-Reiju is a wild card. She's hard to read.
 
Guys ffs can you chill out with these long ass posts quoting every sentence and trying to win the argument against each other pls

Fight me Red Fire

yeah this is the last time I will ever do something like this, but this isn't the first nitpicking war that has happened when all you really need to do is respond to the point in one post. Was just trying to make a point that its exhausting and pointless to respond to people who think everything behind a theory needs to be logically sound or it's just impossible.
 

Ray Down

Banned
Guys ffs can you chill out with these long ass posts quoting every sentence and trying to win the argument against each other pls

Anyway, i don't think pudding is evil either. At worst it'll be a Violet situation.

I didn't think much about the sanji silhouette but now you guys got me thinking if she really hasn't met sanji yet. I'm leaning more towards her telling the truth though.

I don't think to much about it really, it a bit weird but I think Oda just waiting to show it in full. Or maybe he wants us to kind of mistrust her. Outside of the heart shape eyes nothing is she really said is bad IMO. And even then since we havn't seen the whole meeting I can't call her out.

Plus I think Nami would have mention on the way back to the ship if she really thought she was lying or really hiding something, but what ever we will see where this goes in 2 weeks.
 
I don't think to much about it really, it a bit weird but I think Oda just waiting to show it in full. Or maybe he wants us to kind of mistrust her. Outside of the heart shape eyes nothing is she really said is bad IMO. And even then since we havn't seen the whole meeting I can't call her out.

Plus I think Nami would have mention on the way back to the ship if she really thought she was lying or really hiding something, but what ever we will see where this goes in 2 weeks.
The bit that gets me is that she acts scared of them because they're pirates, but is the daughter of one of the strongest pirates alive. She's also seen her mom eat people, which to me is pretty fucked up.
 

Ray Down

Banned
The bit that gets me is that she acts scared of them because they're pirates, but is the daughter of one of the strongest pirates alive. She's also seen her mom eat people, which to me is pretty fucked up.

She not scared of her mom pirates because I'm sure there's hell to pay if they touch her. It's another thing if it other pirates. Hell she grew up with her pirates I bet, so why would she be scared of them.

Also seen:

tumblr_inline_o13228D3Rw1qzmt11_540.png


She's not looking(or wanting to at all) at the act. Was it said she was eating people then?
 
She not scared of her mom pirates because I'm sure there's hell to pay if they touch her. It's another thing if it other pirates. Hell she grew up with her pirates I bet, so why would she be scared of them.

Also seen:

tumblr_inline_o13228D3Rw1qzmt11_540.png


She's not looking(or wanting to at all) at the act. Was it said she was eating people then?
that's what I mean dude, she's seen a lot worse and has been around a lot worse, so why would she be scared of Luffy and his friends? I'm talking about the part where she's holding the knife and calling them scary this past chapter.

And yeah Big Mom ate some of her subordinates in that scene.
 
that's what I mean dude, she's seen a lot worse and has been around a lot worse, so why would she be scared of Luffy and his friends? I'm talking about the part where she's holding the knife and calling them scary this past chapter.

And yeah Big Mom ate some of her subordinates in that scene.
She's obviously (well doesn't seem to be) a fighter. Its one thing to be comfortable around ya family why wouldn't she be scared of an enemy pirate group especially one as renowned as the Strawhat pirates
 
She's obviously (well doesn't seem to be) a fighter. Its one thing to be comfortable around ya family why wouldn't she be scared of an enemy pirate group especially one as renowned as the Strawhat pirates
Yeah, I'm finding it hard to believe that she isn't a fighter in some way

I want her on the crew so she better be
 

Ray Down

Banned
that's what I mean dude, she's seen a lot worse and has been around a lot worse, so why would she be scared of Luffy and his friends? I'm talking about the part where she's holding the knife and calling them scary this past chapter.

And yeah Big Mom ate some of her subordinates in that scene.

She doesn't know them, she comes across as naive who can just get scared/overwhelmed easily.

Who's to say she can't think other pirates can't be like her mom or worse, even then she can think they may not be working towards big mama "dream goal" of a great country. Hell these are the guys coming back to get there friend back and they happen to run into her. She has no idea what they would do.

Maybe there were things she brought to life?
 
She doesn't know them, she comes across as naive who can just get scared/overwhelmed easily.

Who's to say she can't think other pirates can't be like her mom or worse, even then she can think they may not be working towards big mama "dream goal" of a great country. Hell these are the guys coming back to get there friend back and they happen to run into her. She has no idea what they would do.

Maybe there were things she brought to life?
Fair enough, obviously we don't know if that's the case, but I find it hard to believe she can get flustered about the concept of pirates when she herself is the daughter of one of the strongest and arguably scariest.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I'm catching up on the anime and Hakuba is one scary mofo
 
One of the weirdest things about Pudding's story is that Sanji really looks like a casanova, bringing flowers, composed but passionate. We know how a disaster Sanji is with women. lol
 
One of the weirdest things about Pudding's story is that Sanji really looks like a casanova, bringing flowers, composed but passionate. We know how a disaster Sanji is with women. lol
I'm surprised nosebleeds weren't mentioned.
Also the little pic of him holding flowers in front of pudding looks a little too normal for it to be Sanji-related.
Hopefully we find out next chapter
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
Aw crap, I just realized there's no chapter this week. Meaning the thread is going to devolve into shitposting again.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
I thought we've already established that Carrot isn't joining.
As long as there is a young female in an arc, someone will be shipping them to join the crew. Hell, back in the day people were still shipping Perona to join even after Kuma teleported her out of the entire arc.

It's the opposite of what happens with male characters: no matter how obvious it is that they'll join, someone will be in denial about them. Pretty sure there are still people who won't acknowledge Franky, Brook and Jinbei.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
TBH, Paulie seemed 100x more likely to join than Franky. Although I'm glad it worked out otherwise
 
Excited for Jinbei to be honest, he's a wise character and the only other member who's wise in that regard is Robin. I'd love to get a peek on their conversations in a chapter.
 
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