Alright Maju, I'm going to make a summary of my argument after addressing all these points so we can stop with the nitpicking. If you want to ignore the first responses then skip ahead.
pekoms kidnapping it's the exact opposite of making them feel secure,in fact now they know for sure they are not "under radar" anymore
And yet they are moving ahead along a secret route that Pudding gave them and will meet with her on WCI.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here.
What? You don't think so? This is your argument?
i'm not acepting things at face value,like,at all.
Yes you are. See two posts down where you claim it's a plothole for Pudding to be "evil" because her meeting Luffy was apparently entirely by chance.
it's pudding suspicious,sure,awfully suspicious,but i still need a clear motivation and a clear succession of events
Sure. Here's one.
1. She's Big Mom's daughter.
Before you start claiming that Pudding can't be evil because of Lola, Lola was never in a situation where she had to choose between her friends and her mother, so we can't make that assumption.
Furthermore, she doesn't have to be evil, she just has to be scared of her mother. Also, it doesn't mean she can't turn "good" later on.
for this trap to make sense, a trap for a trap sake doesn't make sense,it sould make for a good "aw snap" moment for the audience,but it has to make sense in the contesxt of the manga, and as things are now,big mom has no reason to make this trap,and also the meeting between luffy and pudding was initiated by luffy and not pudding,by eating her cafe.So it's either the entire town is acting,so she really isn't the owner of that cafè and they were just searching for an opening to make those two met,whatever it may be,or still the trap starts from something they had no control over.It could still be in a work of fiction,but it would be called a plothole
For the millionth time, you keep getting hung up on the word trap. I posted a .gif of Admiral Ackbar and you're associating the gif to my argument when I've repeatedly said exactly what I mean.
So the "trap" or the lure, let's call it a lure, needs to make sense in the context of the manga. I've already stated why Big Mom has a reason to lure Luffy. Now she controls where and when he will arrive and can act accordingly. And no, the meeting was entirely initiated by Pudding. Pudding floated down from the sky and invited Luffy and his friends into her home. Is it possible for her to have found Luffy and interacted with him otherwise? Yes. Impossible? No. Stop thinking in absolutes.
None of that comes close to any definition of a plothole. It is entirely possible that Pudding could have sought out Luffy anyway. The reason the cafe was added, in my opinion, was to add some exposition to Pudding's character (she's a cook).
they don't even have to interact with him,just stay away from them and if they pass enar any stationary guardpost just act like you didn not see them for some reason..even if they find it suspicious it's not like going back and leaving sanji is an option anyway
This doesn't answer my point at all, and you're just repeating yourself. This post was in response to you claiming that if Big Mom wanted them there, then the guards or whatever would just let them through. I say it would cause them to be suspicious, you just say the same thing again. Obviously they are going anyways, the point is that in that scenario Pudding doesn't give them a secret route to WCI.
with her security netwrok i'm pretty sure she can still put surveillance over them and know where they are coming from without any trap. like making some of those sea slugs follow them.
Again with the trap. And "I'm pretty sure" is not an argument. Big Mom already knows they're in WCI anyway, so why track them? She doesn't need to.
beause she is not taking luffy seriously,just like she didn't at fiishmen island. she's in "go ahaead and try,strawhat" mode at the moment...if she was hellbent on stopping him at all costs,she would have trapped them at cacao island,away from sanji,but since she doesn't see him as a direct threat,she is content with just putting a surveillance on him and snatch pekoms the traitor
How does this have anything to do with your argument? You're agreeing with me here, and it's totally possible she's underestimating Luffy (everyone fucking does) like this while having Pudding guide them to WCI.
The surveillance you're taking about could be Pudding herself. We don't know either way.
never said it's not a possibility,we are looking at a work of fiction here,if oda wants sanji to fall from the sky on the sunny next chapter,he can.
Well you're doing a good job nitpicking the argument to pieces, so I'm sorry if I thought otherwise.
And i'm not even saying pudding's behavior is not suspicious,because of course it is.
But the whole "trap" still has to make sense in the context of the story, and as of now the whole thing lacks a motivation,because they were already going to whoole cake island in a peaceful way, and the meeting happened because of an indipendent action by luffy,so it's either all the town involved in the act,or they had no way to know that luffy would aven ate an entire cafè and specifically the one owned by pudding.
and even in that case,with all the town involved,they could just attack the strawhat now ,just like they attacked pekoms (or at least we are assuming he was attacked,it might all be a red herring)
At this point, read below. Everything you're arguing about is based on your definition of a trap, which by now seems like you think Big Mom is going to pop out and hop on them. There is a clear motivation, it does make sense in the context of the manga (whatever this actually means)
i just admitted is possible and i'm hang up on absolutes?
sorry for trying to use the info they gave us on the manga..i should try all those theory like "killer is a vinsmoke because he has blonde hair and it's from north blue",they take much less effort to elaborate.
Yeah, because you're claiming things are plotholes or don't make sense in the context of the manga. If that's true, by definition you don't think it's possible. And how am I not using the info they gave us in the manga? That seems to be what you want so read below. Everything I've said is "info from the manga".
For anyone else following Maju and my back and forth, here are my main points on why I think Pudding is "evil" or at least disingenuous. All of this is taken straight from the manga.
- Pudding is hiding a third eye. This will eventually be a thing in the manga. Pudding also hid this eye from Sanji in the photo a few chapters back.
- Big Mom is a tactician. We know this from Pekoms explaining both the head in the box thing to Luffy/Nami and how she organizes her sphere of power. She uses alliances and numbers.
- Big Mom wants Luffy. We don't know why yet.
- Big Mom has not captured Luffy yet, despite wanting him and clearly knowing he's in Totland.
- We have not had an Oda-box for Pudding yet. She hasn't been "properly" introduced, so this suggests her current character and behavior is fake.
- Pudding describes Sanji as if straight from the wanted poster, "black legs" "heart eyes" as if to suggest they have never met or at least she didn't give a shit about him.
- Pudding admits to have seen Luffy's face before, but only now recognizes him after his name is said.
- Pudding is the daughter of a fucking Yonkou and has witnessed her mother eating people and she's scared of "scary pirates"? C'mon.
- Pedro isn't an idiot. Obviously Pudding is Big Mom's daughter and they have a right to be suspicious. Foreshadowing imo.
- Pudding says "I can't disobey an order from Mama."
- Sanji is not actually shown in this supposed flashback of Pudding meeting him.
- Sanji turned down a woman. No way.
- Pudding gives them a secret, quick route that will let them go unnoticed to WCI. Now they believe they have the element of surprise when Pudding easily could have leaked this info to her mother.
- If this ends up following through, then Pudding will "bring" Sanji to them at the designated meeting place on WCI. Obviously this isn't going to happen. They're being lured.
- Pekoms is now gone. So now Pudding's word is the only thing guiding them to WCI.
Despite all this, I think Pudding won't stay aligned with Big Mom for long. Pudding will be redeemed and become an ally, just based on nothing but my gut.
I could also be totally wrong here, and that's fine by me.