What plot holes exactly open up due to her?
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One Piece Manga |OT3| Anything You Can Gum I Can Gum Better
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TheGreatDirector
Banned
He's the most mysterious of them, that's for sure. His "unclear justice" is such a weird motivation.
I think that's just oda joking right
Nah, it's Akainu. Killing/Attempting to kill his comrades during the war, or burning down that ship is like... Woah. Nothing's more frightening than knowing a dude is 100% committed to a cause to the point where he has no qualms about doing abhorrent things in service to them.
Meanwhile Kizaru is just dopey-looking. Like yea, I know what you're getting at in terms of his creepiness, but Akainu is on another level. This is not factoring in Kizaru's DF though, because yea, theoretically he should be by and far the strongest. And even then, magma is some scary shit that you don't even want to touch.
He's the Admirals' version of Doflamingo for me, just another dude where you can't wait for him to finally get his ass kicked and see how he reacts.
Any thoughts on Aokiji.
I think it's symbolic. Akainu is about making the letter of the law equivalent to its spirit, sacred and inviolable. Aokiji is about achieving justice through a light touch: he'll only stop you if you're an actual threat, but let you go if you're merely just a criminal. Kizaru's kind of in between.
It's like US illegal immigrant policy. Some say let them stay even though they're technically criminal as long as they're not dangerous (like when Aokiji let Robin go once he was reasonably sure that she wasn't going to be a loose cannon because she had found a family). Some say that the law is the law whether you're a 28-year-old with a record of violent assault or an 83-year-old with a clean record who can't even see anymore.
Kizaru's like, sometimes you do it this way and sometimes you do it that way, and you can't really explain why.
Fujitora, of course, is blind justice: your status doesn't matter, what you *do* matters, which is why you saw him sit back and let justice run its course on Dressrosa (just because Doffy's a Shichibukai doesn't mean he should be immune from justice), where Akainu would've just melted the Thousand Sunny on sight.
Edit: TLDR
Aokiji: Lazy Justice. If you're not an active threat then i've got better things to worry about.
Akainu: Absolute Justice. If you are one inch outside the law i will destroy you with prejudice.
Kizaru: Confused Justice. Sometimes the answer is unclear, we can only do what we think is best in the situation.
Fujitora: Blind Justice. You shall be judged independent of your social, economic, or political status.
In terms of? He's the least scariest out of all of them (Oh right, Fujitora's a thing now, so 2nd least scariest?), and is now officially the most interesting with the whole Underworld rumor thing going on.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Kizaru is in a weird position where I'm not too sure where he'll go as the story progresses.
Aokiji left the marines and is allied with the Blackbeard pirates, so that puts him in the endgame.
Akainu has a pretty clear beef with luffy and sabo, so that gives him something to do.
Fujitora has a stated goal at least.
Kizaru feels left out at the moment. I'd like to see a more focused path for his character.
Aokiji left the marines and is allied with the Blackbeard pirates, so that puts him in the endgame.
Akainu has a pretty clear beef with luffy and sabo, so that gives him something to do.
Fujitora has a stated goal at least.
Kizaru feels left out at the moment. I'd like to see a more focused path for his character.
I think the hate for Akainu is underserved. He is evil, but he is doing his job. Better him that wants things done quickly than someone with lack of decision likeTashigi or even Fujitora.
I mean the whole tragedy in Dressrosa is Fujitora's fault, if he chose a side from the start the people form Dressrosa would suffer a lot less. Luffy saved his ass big time.
I mean the whole tragedy in Dressrosa is Fujitora's fault, if he chose a side from the start the people form Dressrosa would suffer a lot less. Luffy saved his ass big time.
Akainu killed an entire ship of innocents against orders because there might have been a scholar that snuck onto it.
He is evil, but does his job.
Yep.
He also willing to kill his own men/subordinates for standing in his way in for a second.
Undeserved? Lol, I could hate him just for killing Ace alone. And it's not even like he's enjoyable to watch like Doffy, so it's just yea, I hate him more or less. When Luffy kicks his ass, I will rejoice.
Ace was a pirate and very likely lawfully deserved to die.
Luffy and crew are the good guys but after Enies Lobby are also definitely wanted criminals who did an act that would see them as state threats. Before then, sure, they only ever stuck it to corrupt marines.
Luffy and crew are the good guys but after Enies Lobby are also definitely wanted criminals who did an act that would see them as state threats. Before then, sure, they only ever stuck it to corrupt marines.
AgentLampshade
Member
Kizaru's just doing his job. I bet he goes for a beer with his subordinates after a shift.
I know what their profession is lol
More like smoke weed.
unknownstranger
Member
I don't think Fujitora making his decision earlier would have drastically changed the outcome unless he immediately went after Doflamingo once he got to Dressrosa. Once he confronted Law with Doflamingo, I can't see a scenario where he could have helped prevent Sugar from getting knocked out. Once the birdcage went up, he could have immediately gone after Doflamingo and prevented the destruction of Dressrosa, but people had already suffered under Doflamingo for years.
Seriously speaking, I think one of the biggest reasons it's not possible for me to like OP as much as others is because I usually don't get the emotionally invested in the idea of bringing down a villain. Not just in OP, but in general.
Perhaps lack of emotional investment is the wrong word for it. In work that I like, I definitely get behind a character wanting to accomplish a goal and achieving that goal. In many cases, that means taking down one person or another. But I don't ever see myself becoming part of the essential cause. In The Dark Knight, I'm fascinated by Batman and Joker's conflict, and I gain satisfaction in the final fight they have, but it's never like I go "YES! FUCK YOU JOKER, YOUR REIGN OF TERROR IS AT AN END!"
Edit: I should probably mention that it's not that I don't ever feel a personal vendetta against a fictional character. There's one in particular from Joe Abercrombie's books that I desperately want to see brought down because he's just that much of a monster, and if you recognize that name, you'll know who I'm talking about. Ironically, one of the major themes of that book is that there is no such thing as justice and immorality is generally not punished. I wonder if the lack of a natural sense of thematic justice is connected to my wanting to see it more than in other books...
Here's the interesting thing: While Luffy has shown some visible anger at the mention of Akainu, there's been virtually nothing said about taking him down as a goal. Akainu wants to take Luffy down, but Luffy....well, as of now, he's silent on the matter. It's obvious they're going to come into conflict, but it's not like he's stated he is going to make a choice to go after Akainu in any sense.
So that means the outrage over him is entirely fan driven, because he offended your moral sensibilities. And I'm not saying that's bad, it's just kind of interesting to see.
Perhaps lack of emotional investment is the wrong word for it. In work that I like, I definitely get behind a character wanting to accomplish a goal and achieving that goal. In many cases, that means taking down one person or another. But I don't ever see myself becoming part of the essential cause. In The Dark Knight, I'm fascinated by Batman and Joker's conflict, and I gain satisfaction in the final fight they have, but it's never like I go "YES! FUCK YOU JOKER, YOUR REIGN OF TERROR IS AT AN END!"
Edit: I should probably mention that it's not that I don't ever feel a personal vendetta against a fictional character. There's one in particular from Joe Abercrombie's books that I desperately want to see brought down because he's just that much of a monster, and if you recognize that name, you'll know who I'm talking about. Ironically, one of the major themes of that book is that there is no such thing as justice and immorality is generally not punished. I wonder if the lack of a natural sense of thematic justice is connected to my wanting to see it more than in other books...
Here's the interesting thing: While Luffy has shown some visible anger at the mention of Akainu, there's been virtually nothing said about taking him down as a goal. Akainu wants to take Luffy down, but Luffy....well, as of now, he's silent on the matter. It's obvious they're going to come into conflict, but it's not like he's stated he is going to make a choice to go after Akainu in any sense.
So that means the outrage over him is entirely fan driven, because he offended your moral sensibilities. And I'm not saying that's bad, it's just kind of interesting to see.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Kizaru is definitely the creepiest in the anime because he has the same voice as Professor Ookido and the narrator from Pokemon, which always freaks me out whenever I hear him talking.
AgentLampshade
Member
Either-or. If I were a marine, I'd prefer working under him than Akainu or Fujitora. Akainu carries a heavy risk of death and Fujitora's too much of a gambler. Dressrosa must have been chaos and then your boss goes and yells at the big boss! Kizaru would be in and out. Told his guys to wait on the ship while he cannonballed onto Green Bit, shot Law, lasered over to the coliseum, nuked it, then headed back to the ship. Akainu sent the wrong guy.
Basically it.
It's not a stated goal (and probably never will be), but like for me personally, the presumed Akainu/Luffy matchup in my head would basically be an extended version of when Luffy happened to run into Blackbeard back at Impel Down. Blackbeard wasn't on Luffy's mind at the time either, but oh wow he's here now, so yea... time to kick his ass real quick. Although Jinbe stopped him of course. Like sure, it's not on his mind now, but put him in the same room as Akainu, and then what happens?
Unless you think Akainu and Luffy will never meet again, which seems quite unlikely.
Unless you think Akainu and Luffy will never meet again, which seems quite unlikely.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
A lot of the disgust and anger with Akainu's character comes from a gut feeling in most people have that the mentality of "justice" as an absolute moral state that must be maintained even at the cost of innocent lives is antithetical to what most people want from lawmakers and law enforcers, especially given the relationship many people have with the police in this day and age.
So on a subconscious level, we do want to see that sort of mindset taken down.
So on a subconscious level, we do want to see that sort of mindset taken down.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Get a repeat of ace with akainus fist through his stomach most likely.
Oh my
The question is this then: Is that an example of good writing? When people are projecting their disgruntlement from pretty much entirely unrelated issues just based on abstract ideas of "Unjust lawfulness"?
For me, it's iffy at the very least, though I acknowledge it's obviously not like it's humanely possible to just abandon your personal experiences at the door.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Although it'll never happen, I personally wish Luffy was afraid of Akainu. Him clutching his chest when his name was mentioned should how much pain bringing him up could be.
Veelk raised up a good point though. Luffy hasn't thought of Akainu since Fishman Island. He really has had no point to considering his goal is simply to be Pirate King, which for now involves taking down the Yonko. Akainu's the aggressor in the dynamic and even then as Fleet Admiral he has bigger things to worry about now.
Blackbeard is the closest to that long running two sided conflict that's been bubbling under the surface. If anything, Blackbeard's defeat will be more cathartic than Akainu's demise.
All I'm saying is, it seems unrealistic for them to ever be in the same room, and for neither party to have something to say about their last encounter. In the end, maybe someone else will take him down, like Sabo... somehow. Or Aokiji or Dragon even. Hell, maybe Luffy would take action if he knew Akainu was in the same island lol
It just seems weird to dismiss it, when like half of the people beats are people he initially had not plan on defeating. When it comes to the dude that killed Ace right in front of him, he sure as hell is gonna have his reasons....
Have you seen the Bleach novel stuff.
I have not. I only have Tsukashima as a joke from when I came back from the grave. All I know is it reveals something about Ginjo.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
"Good writing" can be hard to quantify, but I believe that as a writer when you make your antagonist revolve around a particular philosophical or sociological ideal, then you are in some sense relying on commonly held biases that the majority of your readers are likely to hold in order for them to recognize this character as someone to be opposed. As you said, no one goes into a work unbiased.
If you to say, write a nazi character, that very idea stirs such an immediate and powerful negative response in your audience that alot of the legwork in getting the audience to hate them is done.
To be fair after he pretty much steamrolled them And then turned lazy because let's face it an admiral with that ability and serious like akaimu would have slaughtered everybody there
And was stopped by rayleigh
The difference is, unless Luffy kills Akainu, defeating him will mean almost nothing. Every other villain had an evil plan that was stopped once Luffy beat him, Akainu doesn't. His ideology that is evil and beating him won't change his ideology and won't stop him from leading the Navy.
In the big war planned, wouldn't be surprised if it involves the navy's top forces, and ends with them being dismantled or something along those lines. Luffy's probably not gonna fight him at some random point in time w/ low stakes.
I don't want it to be dismantled, just it to be lead by better people. People forget that while the SH are nice, most pirates are terrible and the Marines are the only ones stopping them from harming the innocent.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Fun fact: Sodom, Gomorrah, Blenheim and Gladius share the same birthday.
Random as hell.
Random as hell.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I assume by the end of the series you'll have Smoker and Coby reforming the Marines into being a better organization, and Akainu will probably be locked up. That will probably be another thing that happens during the big war near the end.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I can't wait to see Ryukugyuu. I'm wondering what kind of ability goes with the color green. Plant Fruit? Thorn Fruit?
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Time.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
It does feel like it's time for the new third admiral to be revealed. Time to start scouring Japanese actors from the 70s/80s.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Wano is either late October or November I'd bet
Monochromaticx
Member
one of them will get fisted for sure
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