Souldriver
Member
Austria's President? Or am I missing some election?
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OT | Dutch General Election 2017 | Exit Poll: Major underperformance for Wilders
- Thread starter CrunchyB
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Austria's President? Or am I missing some election?
Yep.I'm talking about that election
I dont want PVV to become the biggest.
Fallout-NL
Member
I'm voting Groen Links and hoping many of you will as well since climate change is pretty much the only issue that should really matter to anyone. Besides, many other problems like immigration and income inequality are related to climate change in one way or another.
Don't do this, it's not necessary.
Don't do this, it's not necessary.
Don't ever vote strategically, vote for who you believe represents your viewpoints the best. You don't need to vote between a giant douche and a turd sandwich, this is not America.
Strategic voting isn't necessary. The system works, because it is possible for coalitions to be formed. In fact it is this very thing that has helped us avoid the hell Americans or Brits face when they vote. Vote for whatever party is good for you. Or vote for a party closer to your values in a general sense.
YourMaster
Member
A shout out to all the voters here to not be lazy and blindly vote for the person at the top of the list. Do your due diligence and decide which person on the list you think is best. Because honestly by the end of the day the competence of the members of parliament decides at least as much as the ideology.
And don't worry, if he/she does not get a seat, your vote did not go to waste but will still go to the party.
Being the biggest doesn't matter much. They can decide who to talk with first, but there's no mandate to have the biggest party in the coalition. This is one of those cases where the system is fine but the people are dumb. Look at last election where most people voted on PvdA or VVD mostly against their will to make the other one not the biggest, making both parties almost double in size and almost nobody was happy with the outcome. If you don't want far right/left to go into power, vote far left/right not center right/left. Best still vote the party you like the most.
And don't worry, if he/she does not get a seat, your vote did not go to waste but will still go to the party.
Being the biggest doesn't matter much. They can decide who to talk with first, but there's no mandate to have the biggest party in the coalition. This is one of those cases where the system is fine but the people are dumb. Look at last election where most people voted on PvdA or VVD mostly against their will to make the other one not the biggest, making both parties almost double in size and almost nobody was happy with the outcome. If you don't want far right/left to go into power, vote far left/right not center right/left. Best still vote the party you like the most.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Same.
I disagree. If the PVV is the biggest, and they are (obviously) unable to form a coalition, it gives Wilders a much better position to cry about how everyone else is ganging up on him, and to place himself in the victim role he loves so much. That said, still didn't vote strategically.
"Wij van WC Eend..."
BrassDragon
Member
Ack, forgot to take my polling ticket to work. Oh well, I'll pop in this evening for a last minute vote.
#noexcuses
#noexcuses
????
Also don't see why I would need or want change in my democratic rights, I have the right to vote in elections, the system works well, I don't see why I need change there.
Yep. I don't think it's likely we have to worry about that at all at the moment. If the race was a bit closer I would think it would be a bit more justifiable to vote for the VVD to block the PVV so we don't have wilders complaining about having no role in the coalition if the PVV ended up getting the most seats.Since it's likely the PVV will end up somewhere between 2nd and 5th later today once the votes are counted but not finalized I think it's better for people to vote for the party that fits them most.
Urgh, that man looks like he'd try and sell you his Mother. Gosh.
Even then, the VVD has already proven in the past that cooperation with PVV is an option for them, as long as they get to govern. Strategically voting for VVD to block PVV is the least logical thing in my book, unless you strategically vote for Jan Roos.
As a pretty much lifelong D66 voter I agree. Referenda and their proposed district system are a mistake. They're nothing but trash.
Caayn
Member
If that's your stance why did you pick GL over PvdD? Honest question.
Chuckie
Member
Lol I had to read that sentence a couple of times too. Basically he says:
If you don't want far right in power, vote far left, not center right
If you don't want far left in power, vote far right, not center left
In this case: If you don't want PVV in power, vote GL/SP not VVD
At least I think that is what was meant
In calculations made by CPB and based on passed motions, Groen Links is consistently the most vocal and radical party in fighting Climate Change.
https://decorrespondent.nl/6353/dit...ring-serieus-tegengaan/1895115426732-be6e8ec4
Jup same here. D66 always is in the top 3 for me. But their idea referenda for laws i am truly against.
It's definitely a very important issue. There's a couple of parties that are very much on the right track regarding climate though, so that alone is not enough for GL to get my vote.
As a D66 voter I agree with the other posters here on referenda though. Most issues are far too complicated to be able to cast a simple 'yes' or 'no' on, so I'm against them. Funny that Thierry Baudet who is such a big proponent of referenda also showed all the issues they have with that Ukraine fuckery.
Didn't rutte get burned the last time PVV joined a coaliton with them? Rutte really doesn't need PVV this time, but I do agree that the VVD may change their mind about a coalition with the PVV.
Fallout-NL
Member
Yup, this is what I based my decision on mostly. I also couldn't really get over how poorly named PvdD is. That may be unfair, but I think it limits their potential. Also, Klaver seems to have some momentum going.
Yeah, that's definitely true. Referendas are mostly bullshit.
ReplacementPelican
Member
Trump and Brexit are almost completely different things though. If comparing party politics the UK equivalent would be UKIP who got a lot of buzz, a lot of rattle and then only got one MP and Farage didn't even win his own constituency.
Wilders is like Farage and the Netherlands is like England in the respect of their may be support polling for more conservative policies on immigrants or what have you but ultimately nobody wants to actually vote for a cunt like Farage or Wilders (American did though, I admit).
Or at least I hope so. Good luck today guys.
The VVD isn't that trustworthy with campaign promises given their past, just saying.
And I disagree that the VVD doesn't need the PVV. The VVD has more in common with the PVV than most, probably any, of the center and left-wing parties. If people make the VVD too big and give them too much sway over the coalition process, the left wing parties will bow out of negotiations and the VVD will have either no choice but to talk to the PVV (which will give them the perfect excuse) or give up on trying to form a coalition altogether, which they will not want to do.
Strategic voting for the VVD only ends in terrible options for all concerned, and we're finally getting rid of the last mess of strategic voting, so let's try and avoid that this time.D
dglavimans
Member
Voting groenlinks. Came out on my stemwijzer and found the debats very strong. Hope we dont wake up tommorow realising we made a mistake. Without a doubt is this my most stressfull election
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Here's hoping the PVV drops a bit further and helps to deflate My Little Pony's chances in France.
I think the same about Groenlinks as a whole, and Pechtold as a person. Blegh. I kinda like the D66 program but that man needs to go before I would consider voting for that party.
Care to elaborate?
YourMaster
Member
And this is exactly the way it matters - which is not much in my book - having Wilders become the largest party will give him a talking point. This matters a whole lot less than actually voting a party in power you don't support.
I think people should vote for what they believe in, but if they want to vote strategically they vote for the extreme parties, not the center parties. Last election people cared about voted PvdA against their better judgement to keep the VVD out of power, or VVD to keep the PvdA out of power, but having to large center parties will form a coalition with them both in. If SP got the votes the PvdA did now it would have looked a lot different.
Of course, if you want a centrist government you'd do fine to vote D66, CDA, VVD or PvdA, but that will always leave the option over that you'll have a center-left of center-right government.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Gonna vote for Groenlinks in a few moments.
Climate is the number one issue we need to worry about right now.
Also, I hope the PVV gets maximum of 20 seats or even less.
This is the most realistic option. (Even tho I prefer a left coalition).
Climate is the number one issue we need to worry about right now.
Also, I hope the PVV gets maximum of 20 seats or even less.
This is the most realistic option. (Even tho I prefer a left coalition).
Pechtold is one of the best politicians we have. He is fair, he is honest in what he says and he is not afraid of compromise to achieve progression (something I'm very glad he was able to get across against Buma yesterday, btw). He is one of the few people I truly believe in when it comes to getting things done. Someone that likes to think in solutions, rather than obstacles.
My Little Pony's chances of the french election were already starting to deflate because of trump and his administrations shenanigans. The PVV doing worse then expected would make it less likely for her to use the dutch election as a talking point while camapigning.
I want the PVV to get exactly 15 seats to see wilders reaction.to not winning any seats.
YourMaster
Member
I always hear a man completely detached from reality.
And I find it so weird to see people talking like it was a good thing that Pechtold supported Rutte II the way he did. Rutte and co hardly ever managed to form an effective law and did more harm than good, and Pechtold accepted it for peanuts. He should have either blocked the lot or used his bargaining power to push changes to the laws to make them any good.
I believe the exit polls will only come at 20 hours when voting stops. Otherwise it would effect the outcome.
Regarding Groenlinks: I care about climate change, I care about green energy, and I like them for repeatedly addressing the issues, but I don't care for their economic program, and especially their plans that target all people that drive cars. People have to get to work, you know. I would rather have them introducing smart policies. For example, I am a consultant, and I have to drive 3 hours a day for a job that I can do at home, but for some reason my presence is needed. So instead of punishing those who have no choice but to drive a car, try to promote new policies that will lead people to leave their car at home, like promote companies that offer more flexible hours. That's just one example. Thinking people can use public transportation is a utopia as well. My wife experiences train rides every week and its just awful. It is no serious alternative now, and will be even worse when people have to leave their cars at home. Other than that, I dislike Klaver. Those rolled up sleeves, really?
Regarding Pechtold, I just think he is an arrogant piece of shit.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Yeah, that's what I'm counting on. The European far right went crazy after the Brexit vote, but Trump's idiocy is sparking some second thoughts among certain people. That and Russian meddling. The PVV underperforming would hurt MLP's chances even more, and maybe even sunk the AfD further
HOHE ENERGIE
I similarly baffled. Here at my work there's suddenly a ton of people who switched to FvD. And even listening to them explain it, I still don't understand. Often from people who hate the populism of Wilders. But FvD is just a slight different kind of populism.
Going to vote GroenLinks myself this evening. Hopefully the tide of right-wing politics can be mitigated a little bit today, but it seems that's a pipe dream.
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