Other M deserves better
- Thread starter Anony
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How was this not posted yet?
It was. It's an awful hyperbolic non-argument.
Littlegator
Banned
NoRéN;46621422 said:
Time to post a classice from the anagram topic
Look at this. Not only is quite a bit of this against the rules, but it's exactly what this topic is talking about. People are dismissing the game for some pretty damn stupid reasons, and you're only making it painfully obvious that he has a point.
It's a joke gif, man.
My "Ahahaahaha wow" comment was directed at the whole "bias" thing. Get over it. :|
Meccanical
Member
Charlatanized
Member
oidisco said:
I agree about the Deleter thing, & I'll give that podcast a listen, thanks.
oidisco said:
Yes. Someone please do.
Dion Blaster
Member
Go ahead, try and do this for Super Metroid or Metroid Prime.
"The baby" is the most common thing people who hate the game bring up when discussing it.
Metroid Other M is the Devil May Cry 2 of Metroid, maybe not as bad as Devil May Cry 2, but it definitely hampered Metroid as a series.
I guess so. I always assumed people do that because it's the easiest/funnest part to pick on. Even I know Samus doesn't say it a lot but I still say those "THE BABY" jokes.
I'm just surprised with the lack of Adam jokes. That's got to be some of the worst story and gameplay combos I've seen in awhile.
Interceptor
Banned
The mods have finally activated my account! Thank you!
@ Topic: Other M is definetly not the best Metroid game out there but it is far from being a bad game. Aside from Adam i actually liked it. It felt like an hommage to Super Metroid. A cheesy one, sure. But for the most part it had an actually really good atmosphere and some impressive 2D gameplay mechanics.
@ Topic: Other M is definetly not the best Metroid game out there but it is far from being a bad game. Aside from Adam i actually liked it. It felt like an hommage to Super Metroid. A cheesy one, sure. But for the most part it had an actually really good atmosphere and some impressive 2D gameplay mechanics.
Other M was still set to be a side experiment, an exploration of a certain misguided ideas, if it had truly been labeled "Metroid 5" in the intro and answer questions and possibilities left open by Fusion and they really wanted to follow in the footsteps of the previous main titles, it may have turned out satisfactory.
I mean making a proper worthy good sequel to Super Metroid or Fusion may seem like such a daunting task to all of us fans who put them up on a pedestal, but honestly how do we know that if Nintendo has never actually tried? Why have they repeatedly gone so experimental with a series that had just begun to tap into a wonderful formula that worked? Zero Mission was the closest thing they ever did to milking it somewhat shamelessly, I think they are entitled to put out something more along the lines of "New Super Metroid Returns" at this point.
Other developers have certainly taken the formula and run with it, and proven it easy to work with, from the great to mediocre "Metroidvania" games, to all the indies like Cave Story and La Mulana, its almost bizarre how Nintendo seems afraid to play the safest option there is.
I mean making a proper worthy good sequel to Super Metroid or Fusion may seem like such a daunting task to all of us fans who put them up on a pedestal, but honestly how do we know that if Nintendo has never actually tried? Why have they repeatedly gone so experimental with a series that had just begun to tap into a wonderful formula that worked? Zero Mission was the closest thing they ever did to milking it somewhat shamelessly, I think they are entitled to put out something more along the lines of "New Super Metroid Returns" at this point.
Other developers have certainly taken the formula and run with it, and proven it easy to work with, from the great to mediocre "Metroidvania" games, to all the indies like Cave Story and La Mulana, its almost bizarre how Nintendo seems afraid to play the safest option there is.
The Deleter thing is resolved. They show the Deleter get attacked by MB in a room, then shortly after that you find a dead body in that same room. Samus can't come to that conclusion herself because she did not see the cutscene the players saw, and as far as she is concerned, the Deleter could have been the single marine who was considered missing and not dead because his body had been dumped into a pool of lava that, once again, only the players saw.
The problem with the Deleter plot thread is it has zero bearing on what happens in the story. It gets a huge focus in the middle part of the game, and it has no payoff other than making it even more obvious that Madeline isn't all that she appears to be and having one of the most bizarre boss fights in the history of video games.
FORKLIFT OF DOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Dave Meltzer
Banned
It's against the rules to be shocked by somebody saying Other M is their favourite Metroid game?
Please.
But the forklift was from Aliens! They HAD to have a forklift!
The Deleter is there to cast doubt on the government, as well, which before this game was considered a beacon of good. The metroid breeding program alone wasn't enough because Samus trusted the federation with metroid research before, as metroids can be used as a power source.
tkscz
Member
Not the linear part. Metroid is known for allowing to player to venture the world more and more with each item they get. Other M manages to kill that by not allowing players to venture anywhere off the path set for them until the end of the game. And yes, there is pixel hunting in the game. Something which kills the experience for me.
You know, I'm no Metroid fan by any means but I remember being excited by the gameplay and the use of the Wiimote as a NES controller, I thought it'd be fun and I'm personally not a fan of games in first-person perspective (I played Prime 1 and 3, they're pretty and atmospheric but my enjoyment didn't really last long). Then it turns out the game is plagued by crappy cinematics... I didn't even bother trying it. Is the gameplay by itself too bad? I might rent it just to check it out. I'm not scared by "worst game in the series" stigma at all.
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
I actually liked Other M more than a lot of people did, but it still had issues and I thought it was one of the weaker games.
None of my complaints have to do with Samus' character portrayal and no, I don't think the game is sexist.
To me Samus never had a real focus on character prior to Other M. Metroid Fusion introduce a bit of story telling and character for Samus, but not nearly as much as Other M did. So when people say they ruined Samus' character, I don't understand because for me, she had none prior to. In all honesty you could easily replace Samus as the protagonist in a game like Super Metroid and it wouldn't change a damn thing.
Furthermore, I don't think she was being a submissive by taking orders from Adam. Adam is the commander in charge of the Federation at that time. He states if Samus wishes to help the Federation, she has to listen to his orders. Seems logical, if you have a commander, you listen to their orders - regardless of your gender. So, I don't really see how it was sexist but I guess you could interpret it that way...? Either way, the story as a whole was pretty nonsensical, I wasn't offended by the narrative and I'd be lying if I said I didn't somewhat enjoy learning about events that took place between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion.
So what I liked about the game comes down to the action gameplay For me, Other M has the best combat of any of the 2D titles. While the Metroid Prime games were great, the speed and agility that Samus had in the 2D titles was lost in the 3D transition. Beyond that, the combat was just fun. It was incredibly satisfying considering Team Ninja's roots.
What I didn't like I suppose has to do with my expectations. I initially was expecting Other M to deliver me a similar experience to Super Metroid, but after looking back at it, it was unfair for me to expect that when the developers really weren't intending on creating that type of game. That's not to say I don't want to play another Super Metroid type game, because I do, but that wasn't how Other M was designed.
I also didn't like the progression of how you got items, as it seemed like you got the bulk of your powers towards the end of the game, though the "Metroid" part of the game opens up after you beat the story (collectathon).
The last thing I really didn't like were the doors being locked. I like to explore, so when I've already been to a room but it's been locked later on in the game, that's annoying. I guess they wanted you to play through the story first before you go back to explore, but that's not how I play Metroid and restrictions like shouldn't be there. Not being able to skip cut scenes is a weird decision too. I don't personally care, but not everyone want's to play it for the story.
The first person sections where you're forced to try to find the point of interest was my biggest issue with the game. It was annoying since it never gave you a hint about where to look and ruined the pacing. That being said, once I went back and tried to go for 100%, I enjoyed the game a lot more than I initially did.
Lastly, getting 100% has no benefits in the game. The reward for it was not worth it!
It's a ton of fun once you get past an initial hurdle and it definitely isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Not the best Metroid and not really a lot like Super Metroid, but that wasn't really the intention of Sakamoto and Team Ninja. I'm still hoping for a Super Metroid type game eventually, but we'll see.
None of my complaints have to do with Samus' character portrayal and no, I don't think the game is sexist.
To me Samus never had a real focus on character prior to Other M. Metroid Fusion introduce a bit of story telling and character for Samus, but not nearly as much as Other M did. So when people say they ruined Samus' character, I don't understand because for me, she had none prior to. In all honesty you could easily replace Samus as the protagonist in a game like Super Metroid and it wouldn't change a damn thing.
Furthermore, I don't think she was being a submissive by taking orders from Adam. Adam is the commander in charge of the Federation at that time. He states if Samus wishes to help the Federation, she has to listen to his orders. Seems logical, if you have a commander, you listen to their orders - regardless of your gender. So, I don't really see how it was sexist but I guess you could interpret it that way...? Either way, the story as a whole was pretty nonsensical, I wasn't offended by the narrative and I'd be lying if I said I didn't somewhat enjoy learning about events that took place between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion.
So what I liked about the game comes down to the action gameplay For me, Other M has the best combat of any of the 2D titles. While the Metroid Prime games were great, the speed and agility that Samus had in the 2D titles was lost in the 3D transition. Beyond that, the combat was just fun. It was incredibly satisfying considering Team Ninja's roots.
What I didn't like I suppose has to do with my expectations. I initially was expecting Other M to deliver me a similar experience to Super Metroid, but after looking back at it, it was unfair for me to expect that when the developers really weren't intending on creating that type of game. That's not to say I don't want to play another Super Metroid type game, because I do, but that wasn't how Other M was designed.
I also didn't like the progression of how you got items, as it seemed like you got the bulk of your powers towards the end of the game, though the "Metroid" part of the game opens up after you beat the story (collectathon).
The last thing I really didn't like were the doors being locked. I like to explore, so when I've already been to a room but it's been locked later on in the game, that's annoying. I guess they wanted you to play through the story first before you go back to explore, but that's not how I play Metroid and restrictions like shouldn't be there. Not being able to skip cut scenes is a weird decision too. I don't personally care, but not everyone want's to play it for the story.
The first person sections where you're forced to try to find the point of interest was my biggest issue with the game. It was annoying since it never gave you a hint about where to look and ruined the pacing. That being said, once I went back and tried to go for 100%, I enjoyed the game a lot more than I initially did.
Lastly, getting 100% has no benefits in the game. The reward for it was not worth it!
It's a ton of fun once you get past an initial hurdle and it definitely isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Not the best Metroid and not really a lot like Super Metroid, but that wasn't really the intention of Sakamoto and Team Ninja. I'm still hoping for a Super Metroid type game eventually, but we'll see.
Quoted for the truth!
I would describe the combat as fun to watch another person play, but unsatisfying to actually play by yourself. Everything is way too automated. It doesn't feel like there is any skill in what you do. Just mash on the d-pad and spam quick charge shots.
Exploration is pretty much non existent and the recharge mechanic is broken enough that it makes the little powerups pretty much useless. There is no skill in the platforming either, both because it's very 'streamlined' and there are no good alternate paths, intended or unintended.
I don't know why anyone would be excited by using the Wiimote as a NES controller because the NES controller was uncomfortable and the Wiimote is even worse, but you can probably rent it for cheap if you really wanted to. There are some people who like the game, you might like it too.
I liked this trend of simpler controls, I actually think a sideways Wiimote is very comfortable and works for 2D platformers perfectly, so it was interesting seeing it used in other kind of game.
Meccanical
Member
What a strange comment to make.
This is something I can agree on
Has getting 100% ever had an in-game benefit? Endings in the 2D games were based on completion time. The Prime games gave you an extra ending for 100% and unlocked some galleries, but usually all getting 100% items gives you is a feeling of completion and makes you overpowered. The finding and figuring out how to get of the items has always been the real reward.
Taking the most famous example and FIRST strong female protagonist in video gaming and turning her, physically, into a crying little girl in front of a foe she has killed repeatedly and never before flinched at seeing nor ever after is stupid.
The argument of "Yeah well this time it was finally too much" doesn't hold up because then Fusion rolls around and Samus finds him AGAIN and doesn't bat an eyelash. And this is WHILE the player has been running from an evil clone of herself which GASP, rather than turning Samus into a little girl so the player knows to be afraid, is just actually scary so that the player IS afraid.
The problem with Other M story defense is that Fusion exists. People are always like "Oh but Samus didn't HAVE a character before Other M!" Except she had one established in Fusion years before Other M came out, so people didn't just invent the idea of Samus as a hardened hunter who is cold and takes no one's crap. For all the years between Fusion and Other M, that was the prevailing vision of Samus' character because in the first ten minutes of Fusion, Samus all but says that, pointing out that she hates taking orders etc.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
A character doesn't have to speak to have a personality. People were used to seeing Samus literally stick her arm into Ridley's mouth and start shooting. Her suddenly having a paralyzing fear of the same monster she has already faced and killed twice (four times if you include the Prime games, which Sakamoto inexplicably doesn't) makes no sense, and is pretty inconsistent as far as character goes. I have no idea how many times this example has been used, but surely it's a lot.
Did you turn off the game and miss what happened after she had her PTSD attack?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuPMcdmwUV0
It's clear it wasn't normal fear, and when she snapped out of it she kicked ass harder than ever before, including sticking her arm in his mouth and shooting.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Somewhat unrelated, but something I used to do on my tumblr blog was laugh at dumb Youtube comments, most of them from angry teenagers who were pissed that I dared insult Sonic 06, a notoriously and almost comically bad game.
This last week, I've had somebody who won't stop posting comments and keeps maintaining that everything everybody hates about Sonic 06 is "strictly subjective". He keeps using it as if it's some kind of indefensible statement and is really clogging up the comments section because he's replying to multiple people trying to convince everybody that they're being too harsh on Sonic 06.
All I'm sayin'... this seems awfully familiar. Not that you're the same guy, or that he even posts on GAF, just...
...there's... parallels I'm observing.
There are many reasons that Other M is a much bigger failure than Hunters. First and foremost, Hunters did exactly what it was meant to do - create a handheld fps on a Nintendo handheld. It had decent online, and wide number of characters, and fun quick bursts of gameplay. It did precisely what it set out to do; have a multiplayer focused spinoff that does not encroach on the main story. Does it compare to the other "real" games in the series? Of course not, not even close, but it's still a fun little game. I don't think anyone would seriously have an active hatred for a spinoff game like this one.
Other M marketed itself as this huge exposé of Samus' deep character, and as most of the replies have stated - failed on every front. It disregards earlier titles in the series just to put out Sakamoto's bizarre agenda for Samus' creepy relationship with Adam. This one evoked so much vitriol from fans because it showed how much in the wrong direction the creator of this series wants to drag his creation. He set out to create a 3D Metroid game that would be about the "true" character of Samus, when the team that he tries to block out made three games that were far far far superior.
I could go on with this, but essentially it's just that Hunters is a game that didn't set out to do much, and achieved its goal, whereas Other M tried to be some big thing, and failed spectacularly.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yup, people were super hyped about other m before it came out. Nintendo and Team Ninja teaming up to make a Metroid game with a new focus on story and fast action gameplay? What could go wrong?
Everything.
Glass Rebel
Member
People are dismissing the game for 'pretty damn stupid reasons'? I was unaware you were the authority on the quality of people's opinions.
Whether someone dislikes this game due to the gameplay, the story, the cutscenes or any sort of combination of elements, their opinions for disliking it as much as valid as the opinions are for those who like it.
A game doesn't carve up a loyal and rabid fanbase like Other M did and come out smelling like roses. Sorry. Maybe he has a point, but those who dislike it have valid points too.
Yeah DmC and Other M are opposites. The former was ridiculed before release, and then once it came out, people realized it's actually good. Other M seemed to have everything going for it before release, but then once the game came out, the wheels really fell off.
The reverse of Other M's case can be said about Metroid Prime - in prerelease, everyone hated the direction the series was going, but after release, we realized how incredible that game really is.
The reverse of Other M's case can be said about Metroid Prime - in prerelease, everyone hated the direction the series was going, but after release, we realized how incredible that game really is.
Littlegator
Banned
I'm not the authority, but GAF's rules are definitely the authority on whether or not shitposts like "THE BABY" are allowed.
Uh, I've been clarifying my opinions quite clearly in this thread. I guess my opinion is wrong then.
tkscz
Member
The Prime games gave Samus character via actions and movements during cutscenes (Prime 2 and 3 mostly), but if you pay attention, it's pretty much the same character as Other M. Just not as melodramatic. Never understood why no one sees it though.
Meccanical
Member
Well shit games shouldn't be allowed either but Metroid Other M exists.
I kid, I kid.
Account finally activated! That was a lot faster than I though.
The problem with Samus' character was that it was very heavy handed, the narrative had no subtlety and her monologues would go onto explain things that recently just happened and the player saw.
And the "samus didn't have a character, therefore it Wasn't ruined" argument sort of misses the point that for a lot of people she did have a character. She was a silent protagonist and the due to limitations in narrative in the previous games the extend of her character was "sees enemy, doesn't hesitate to attack" Strong, efficient, independent. (I don't remember what she said in Fusion, so I may be missing something here)
When you suddenly give a lot of emotional reactions and a set personality to a character that was mostly silent, and thus, subjected to people's projections, is that someone (in this case a lot of people) is bound to just disagree with the portrayal. "This is not what I thought Samus was like at all!"
I think the best way to try to give a set personality to Samus should have been gradually. Each game sort of paints a new picture of Samus, like in Corruption where she gets Angry and Sad at Gandrayda's death.
Never read the Manga so I don't know how she is there.
The problem with Samus' character was that it was very heavy handed, the narrative had no subtlety and her monologues would go onto explain things that recently just happened and the player saw.
And the "samus didn't have a character, therefore it Wasn't ruined" argument sort of misses the point that for a lot of people she did have a character. She was a silent protagonist and the due to limitations in narrative in the previous games the extend of her character was "sees enemy, doesn't hesitate to attack" Strong, efficient, independent. (I don't remember what she said in Fusion, so I may be missing something here)
When you suddenly give a lot of emotional reactions and a set personality to a character that was mostly silent, and thus, subjected to people's projections, is that someone (in this case a lot of people) is bound to just disagree with the portrayal. "This is not what I thought Samus was like at all!"
I think the best way to try to give a set personality to Samus should have been gradually. Each game sort of paints a new picture of Samus, like in Corruption where she gets Angry and Sad at Gandrayda's death.
Never read the Manga so I don't know how she is there.