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[franconp]

fran, are you willing to let the counterclaim go for another day (maybe someone vigi shoots one tonight, maybe not)?

Opinion of that in general? Who's lying? Who's telling the truth?

I think we need to solve this now, we need to know who is lying. To extend this discussion for more phases gains us nothing. As we don't have much to work with besides this why wouldn't we discuss this now?

I don't know who is lying. All of them have inconsistencies. Vere power is just to perfect to be true. Eze said he had 3 one use powers and didn't want to share one but then later said it isn't important. If it isn't important why don't he shares it? Ouro is the most suspicious so far, I just don't like how he is playing, it's too weird. I think he is just mad with Vere and he is taking all of us with him.

I will go with Vere because if he is really saying the truth he is just a normal townie and I'm ok with lynching a normal townie over a potential cop or Eze. If Vere flip scum either Ouro is telling the truth and we discuss what we do with Ouro and Eze or Ouro is neutral and out of the game and we know that Eze is the widowmaker. Not much is lost. If Vere flips town we lynch Ouro and we just made a one-one trade for a normal townie which it's a win for us.

This is probably my last post before tomorrow night. As Sorian added a day more I will be here for the last day (if we don't end it before deadline).

 

[cabot]

It's a "bulletproof everything" power. To me Strongman usually doesn't pass a bulletproof (I originally had it so in Pokémon mafia, but after rebalanced was it only changed).

This argument is WIFOM really, in Bar the strongman could breach Doctor or BP, but couldnt breach Jailer.

It's a moderator decision.

 

[*Splinter]

You should give a fuck when they derail the town conversation completely. Which is exactly what's happening if ouro and Verelious are neutrals.

I guess I'd better vote one of them then

 

[Burbeting]

Anyway, I am against lynching someone who claimed cop. And I'm against lynching Zeke for now, because like I said I don't think scum would make a stupid mistake like claiming something else than their own hero. I will not believe right now in multi-shot forgers or other roles that would fuck up with us, this game was not advertised as bastard.

I'm voting the guy who I think is 100% lying.

 

[*Splinter]

I'm voting the guy who I think is 100% lying.

So gut read over direct counterclaim.

That's fine, just being clear about where you stand.

 

[cabot]

At the very least, we should get input from everyone before needlessly turboing, this isnt cut and dry.

 

[*Splinter]

I want every Verelios voter to fill in the blank:

"I think Ouro is telling the truth but I don't want to lynch Zeke because ______"

 

[Burbeting]

So gut read over direct counterclaim.

That's fine, just being clear about where you stand.

I didn't join a game that was advertised as bastard.

Only reason for Scum to not claim their role is if this was a bastard game.

 

[*Splinter]

I didn't join a game that was advertised as bastard.

Only reason for Scum to not claim their role is if this was a bastard game.

Tanner isn't bastard

 

[Burbeting]

Tanner isn't bastard

Are you fucking serious.

 

[cabot]

Tanner isn't bastard

triggered.

 

[*Splinter]

Are you fucking serious.

Err, maybe?

I don't know why Ouro or Zeke is lying. I don't think that's a good excuse to ignore the fact that one of them is lying, especially if you are then going to assume that Ouro is telling the truth about something else.

 

[Burbeting]

If this game has a tanner, I'll quit playing mafia.

 

[franconp]

I want every Verelios voter to fill in the blank:

"I think Ouro is telling the truth but I don't want to lynch Zeke because ______"

Can I change this with:

I think Ouro is lying but it's to risky to kill a potential cop the second day or Zeke, who has 3 abilities, over a normal townie.

I don't like how Ouro started to take down his widowmaker claim after being called by Zeke, saying it doesn't matter what is role name is but what it does. I don't think he is the widowmaker and Zeke is but I don't know if he is the cop. Zeke isn't claiming cop, nobody claimed cop so far (and if someone else is PLEASE don't claim now). This is just a discussion on role names and I think this is the secondary theme between if really Ouro is cop and Vere scum or not.

 

[Barrylocke]

Can I change this with:

I think Ouro is lying but it's to risky to kill a potential cop the second day or Zeke, who has 3 abilities, over a normal townie.

I don't like how Ouro started to take down his widowmaker claim after being called by Zeke, saying it doesn't matter what is role name is but what it does. I don't think he is the widowmaker and Zeke is but I don't know if he is the cop. Zeke isn't claiming cop, nobody claimed cop so far (and if someone else is PLEASE don't claim now). This is just a discussion on role names and I think this is the secondary theme between if really Ouro is cop and Vere scum or not.

The question here is "If Ouro is lying but still a cop, why didn't he just say his own damn role?"

I've been bouncing the idea around that maybe he's a cop that discovers role names? That sounds useless for this game, but it COULD make sense with a side order of gambit hijinks added on. Claim Ezekels role and drop his name to shake him up. It's a stretch even as I type it though.

 

[Mazre]

Awake, gotta get some groceries and then I'm free rest of the day. Please hold turbo a bit.

 

[AbsolutBro]

unvote
you guys added three freakin pages while I was asleep. I need time to read them, and caffeine before that. my brain isn't awake yet.

wth people

 

[Sorian]

Current vote count:

Verelios (9)
Ourobolus
Bronx-man
*Splinter
Franconp
AbsolutBro
Melonrabbit
Xamtheking
Haly
WhereAreMahDragonz
Kingkitty
Burbeting
nin1000

Ourobolus (2)
EzekelRAGE
*Splinter

nin1000 (1)
Barrylocke

*Splinter (0)
cabot

Absolutbro (0)
Burbeting

Mazre (0)
Haly

Bronx-man (0)
Kingkitty

EzekelRAGE (0)
Barrylocke

Kyanrute (0)
Melonrabbit

11 votes needed for majority

 

[Ty4on]

I want every Verelios voter to fill in the blank:

"I think Ouro is telling the truth but I don't want to lynch Zeke because ______"

I think Verelios is our best choice for scum. One of Ezekel and Ouro are lying, but I don't see why scum would do that. IMO it makes more sense for town to do it. I have seen crazier town gambits. Lynching Verelios also doesn't stop us from lynching Ouro or Ezekel later.

I don't wanna think about the Tanner scenario. Does town automatically lose if they lynch him or is it just a Tanner win?

 

[melonrabbit]

Uh, what's a Tanner?

And why is everyone so active after I went to sleep.

 

[Ty4on]

Uh, what's a Tanner?

And why is everyone so active after I went to sleep.

Tanner wins when they are lynched. Cabot was a Tanner in a game who's name escapes me. Wwe I think.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Reading this thread from both ends, but isn't a Tanner considered 'bastard' in Gafia games?

 

[Ourobolus]

This is the part where I reiterate I know nothing of overwatch, so maybe he did and I missed it.

I'll vote Verelios, I trust Ouro more than he at this moment in time.

cabot pls

Ok thanks, it kind of sounded like it from context but wanted to check.

Also I don't have a vig shot, so you're all free to vote. Although, if you do want to vote for Verelios you might have my vote tomorrow because what the fuck are you people doing??

VOTE: Ourobolus

We have two widowmaker claims. Lynch one.

splinter pls

Also also nothing Ouro has said since Zeke's claim has made sense.

Lynch Ouro. If he's scum lynch Burb, if he's town lynch Zeke and Verelios.

splinter pls

I'm sure ouro could easily figure out a bullshit reason to modify his claim to fit the hero he actually has.

Worst case scenario is both Ouro and Verelious or only ouro are neutral lynches.

burb pls

Forger. It think it was in Final Fantasy(?) where scum could create a fake role for someone, but that role would only show if they dies in the same night or following day.

Ie. Create a scum role PM, get that person lynched the next day, town is fucked until the forger flips (which might never happen).

splinter pls

Citation needed.

(I don't think I've seen a strongman target a bulletproof, but I never thought such a situation would fail.)

Strongman, at least the ways I've implemented it, and according to the mafiascum wiki, would bypass all types of protection on a STATIONARY target (so BP yes, commuter no).

 

[Ourobolus]

Anyway, Splinter, I get why you are suspicious, but I'm neither neutral nor scum. I know that doesn't mean much, but my flip won't get you jack shit.

 

[cabot]

I guess you're not gonna tell me what you meant in those d1 posts I quoted, buddy.

 

[cabot]

What's happening with Kyanrute?

Is he getting replaced?

 

[cabot]

It seems surprisingly quiet considering the small storm of contradictions and such we've come across here.

 

[cabot]

VOTE: StanleyPalmtree

Thoughts ? you've not said much, fancy finishing Splinter's sentence?

Who do you trust the most?

 

[Ourobolus]

??????

I guess you're not gonna tell me what you meant in those d1 posts I quoted, buddy.

Well I guess my flip would clear that up, but still doesn't amount to much.

 

[kingkitty]

I want every Verelios voter to fill in the blank:

"I think Ouro is telling the truth but I don't want to lynch Zeke because ______"

if "telling the truth" is about Verelios, then I'll just go for Verelios and shit out what to do next based out the flip. If Verelios is just town, then I don't think it's a big sacrifice since his claim is that he already used his power. If you're talking about Widowmaker, I don't know who is telling the truth lawl. Would be weird for a real cop to lie about their character, would be weird for a scumZeke to boldly try to save Verelios. But if it's between a Verelios or Zeke lynch, a Verelios lynch seems to be safer. If the flip is town, as least we know he used up his role (unless Verelios is lyin', or Ouro needs a blood sacrifice to swallow our town in a spirit bomb). I don't think Ezekel told us his role, just his character, so lynching him at this moment over Verelios is more of an unknown move.

 

[Ourobolus]

I want every Verelios voter to fill in the blank:

"I think Ouro is telling the truth but I don't want to lynch Zeke because ______"

I think Ouro is telling the truth and I want to lynch Zeke in addition to Verelios.

 

[Ourobolus]

I think Verelios is our best choice for scum. One of Ezekel and Ouro are lying, but I don't see why scum would do that. IMO it makes more sense for town to do it. I have seen crazier town gambits. Lynching Verelios also doesn't stop us from lynching Ouro or Ezekel later.

I don't wanna think about the Tanner scenario. Does town automatically lose if they lynch him or is it just a Tanner win?

So where is your vote, Ty?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

VOTE: StanleyPalmtree

Thoughts ? you've not said much, fancy finishing Splinter's sentence?

Who do you trust the most?

well, right now, i think what hes saying makes a decent amoutn of sense, and definitely warrants further thought.

however i am fucking TANKED right now.
like seriously i just spent an hour watching a super *not gay, but totally gay* anime about ice skating with TheG. i dont feel super inclined to make committed decisions right now.

butt fuckit it (yes gay joke im sorry) ill try.

yeah, it got lost amongst almost everyone that the biggest red flag of this whole event is that two people claimed the same character. it initially appears less significant than a cop reveal (cuz a the whole "look, its scum!" temptation), but really it does matter more, fake cop claims happen, for good or bad (see YnnYs mini mafia godlike slam duck for an example of a town saving cop lie) but there is a precedent,
but a role dispute like this? far more concerning, and no simple/obvious reasoning for why or how someone could lie about this in an attempt to help town.

so this moves the thuderdomey decision from lynching Ouro or Vere, to lynching Ouro or Eze. right?

so which is better to lycnh 1st? looking at both, i would say Eze, its less to do with anything Eze has done (although plenty of his talk has felt not great, in particular his penchant for argueing his point in the tense that his role or whatever has already been proven), but more from looking at this situation from ouros perspective.
if Ouro is the one lying here, then he is so fucked. like no way around it, he will be dead, and if he is scum then like, that makes no sense. only the craziest of hypotheticals could explain it, and you crazy kids have tried, with you talks about forgers an shit, its nuts, and without any kind of backing imma take that ideas like the crazy talk it is.
eze however, if he is lying then what he did certainly was stuipid, but i can at least think of some posible motivations.

if we wana play the numbers game about it then it bascially do we wana play the safer way and only spend 3 lynchs on the scenario, or play the super risky way, and hope to lynch only 1, but if it fucks up, the we have to lynch all 3.

but fuck the numbers game we playin MAFIA!
we all about calling people lyers ans stuffs!

after all of this im leaning toward lynchin Ezekel, but even im not gone enought to place the vote right now, ill let sober stan take care of that.

 

[*Splinter]

People should drunk post more often.

 

[cabot]

ah bless, it's catching on.

 

[Mazre]

Okay, that took forever and didn't turn up much.

For the record (if I get something wrong please just point me towards a relevant post)

Peeking (For):
melonrabbit
stanleypalmtree
Haly
Sophia
EzekelRAGE
*splinter

Against:
Burbeting
Mazre
franconp

Neutral:
Ouro
WAMD


People who actually gave peeks day 2:
nin1000? (was that a peek or were you serious about checking cabot?)
*splinter
ouro


People pushing some nonsense fiction that I up and vanished:
melonrabbit
WAMD
Bronx-man
Verelios
nin1000

 

[Sophia]

I'm here, I'm vaguely awake.

Still thinking it over tho.

 

[Mazre]

Aside from Ouro/Zeke/Verelios, who would everyone vote for?

I would probably vote Haly, he seems to have zeroed in on me in a particularly lazy fashion. In addtion, despite being very emphatic about the peek strategy, chose to offer no peek on day 2.

 

[Sophia]

Aside from Ouro/Zeke/Verelios, who would everyone vote for?

I would probably vote Haly, he seems to have zeroed in on me in a particularly lazy fashion. In addtion, despite being very emphatic about the peek strategy, chose to offer no peek on day 2.

It's hard to say who I'd vote for right now, because the results of the Ouro/Zeke/Verelios triangle would significantly impact my reads.

For example, if say Ezekel flipped scum, I'd want to look at Barrylocke who has had his vote there in two spots. On the other hand, if Verelios flipped scum, I'd want to look at cabot who had his vote on him on Day 1.

 

[cabot]

Aside from Ouro/Zeke/Verelios, who would everyone vote for?

I would probably vote Haly, he seems to have zeroed in on me in a particularly lazy fashion. In addtion, despite being very emphatic about the peek strategy, chose to offer no peek on day 2.

It would've been Kyanrute, possibly Splinter.

 

[melonrabbit]

Since Kyan is off the table, I would vote Ty or Nin.

 

[Sorian]

Effective immediately, Cherry Bomb replaces Kyanrute

 

[*Splinter]

Aside from Ouro/Zeke/Verelios, who would everyone vote for?

I would probably vote Haly, he seems to have zeroed in on me in a particularly lazy fashion. In addtion, despite being very emphatic about the peek strategy, chose to offer no peek on day 2.

Burb. I don't believe he thinks what he says he thinks

 

[Sophia]

Why hello there, Miss Cherry. Penny for your thoughts on this situation?

 

[Mazre]

On to the topic of the day:

Considering them individually-
Ouro has been fairly standard Ouro, he was suspicious of Ver day 1 and claims to have followed it up with an investigation night 1 landing on scum. Lobbied heavily for his lynch before fully claiming when pressed on it. He made several statements regarding his role day 1 that somewhat contradict his current claim but he also made several clear jokes regarding his role as well, claims this was all distraction. Ouro is well aware and concedes his life is more or less forfeit if Ver pops town.

EzekelRAGE - In reaction to Ouro counter-claimed as same character with different set of abilities. If Ver flips scum decent chance he is also scum.

Verelios - Floated the idea of lynching Ouro day 1 without actually casting a vote. Jumped on the ynnek7 train bringing myself/absolutbro/ynnek7 to a 3 way tie at 4 apiece (within the last hour deadline no less). Claims to have used a 1 shot power to BP everyone leading to the no lynch.

 

[nin1000]

People who actually gave peeks day 2:
nin1000? (was that a peek or were you serious about checking cabot?)

I had a 1 - shot ability to check the alignment of a person. I checked Cabot and he turned out to be a "teammate" meaning town.

This function is now disabled and I cannot check anyone anymore.

 

[nin1000]

I am still on mobile and will be home in 2 hours in order to catch up with the last couple of pages.

Why would you you want to vote me out melon ?
Please tell me what is bothering you.

 

[Mazre]

Cont. from my previous post-

If Ouro is telling the truth- Would mean that both Ver and Zeke are scum. It's hard to fathom that Ver could be so valuable that Zeke would attempt this play to save Ver, especially in light that the simplest resolution at this point is still to kill Ver first. Our worst case as town is that killing Ver will cost us a now ordinary town and complete some neutral condition for Ouro. Whereas our best case is we get 2 scum at the cost of a cop.

Ouro is lying about his role but isn't scum- Ouro could be playing super agressive and wants to lynch Ver for some reason and is trying to force it early. This would push towards a neutral role but doesn't rule out town. As a lyncher perhaps he Ouro got lucky and found his target in one night, having Ver named as his target in his role is also possible but less likely to be his sole victory condition then (which would make this play make less sense as well)

Ouro is scum - For what reason is he so agressively going after Ver? Does he know somehting about him that contradicts his claim? Is he trying to get lynched, either as a bomb or tanner?

 

[Mazre]

I had a 1 - shot ability to check the alignment of a person. I checked Cabot and he turned out to be a "teammate" meaning town.

This function is now disabled and I cannot check anyone anymore.

Do you have more than one ability? Asking more as a corroboration to EzekelRAGE's claim of multiple 1-shot abilities.

 

[nin1000]

Do you have more than one ability? Asking more as a corroboration to EzekelRAGE's claim of multiple 1-shot abilities.

Multiple one shot abilities