you just made a post agreeing with them. are you not willing to defend your views?
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Overwatch marks a new low in Unlocking and Microtransaction systems that I'm aware of
- Thread starter Saty
- Start date
you just made a post agreeing with them. are you not willing to defend your views?
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
2pm est yesterday, didn't you get the memo?
CosmicQueso
Member
Good to know. I guess now I get to look forward to the day Austin Walker takes 30 minutes to explain to me that stealing is bad.
this should include the base price of the game, but i don't see people here demanding that every game be entirely free
I'm loving the game, it's really, really fun.
I'm usually very competitive but with Overwatch while I still play the objectives hard it's all about having fun. I don't care about my stats, and I don't even get frustrated at losses.
It seems that the two most controversial aspects about Overwatch are it's price and the micro transactions.
When it comes to the price, I really don't have any issues with it. I paid 60 bucks and I think the game is easily worth it. That said, there is no excuse for Blizzard not releasing a 40 bucks version of the game on console.
Ratchet and Clank is considered by all a huge success on PS4 at that same price point, paying platform holder royalties and physical store fees. And I bet it's going to sell less than Overwatch on PS4 alone.
The extras on the 60 dollar version are just not worth it. What if you don't care about the characters that got the extra skins? A better, more player friendly alternative would be bundling the 60 dollar version with a few unlock keys so that you could unlock the skins that you wanted for your favorite characters.
I think the biggest advantage to the game not being F2P is when it comes to hacking. On F2P games people caught hacking are instantly back in the game on new accounts right? That 40 bucks entry price is going to be a deterrent to some hackers out there. This might not mean anything to console players but it's a big advantage to PC gamers IMO, and well worth the price of admission.
Finally when it comes to the micro transactions I will say that I personally don't like the system.
As many others have probably said, there are numerous more player friendly ways that Blizz could monetize the game.
I played for about 12 hours and most of the stuff I got is for characters that I don't play that much. Still haven't gotten a single legendary.
It would be better to get just credits at the end of the match so you could save and buy the stuff you actually want, and giving the option to buy in game currency with real money. But that would probably be too player friendly and impact micro transaction sales in the end. (I know you have a chance of getting credits when you open loot crates, but so far you don't get enough considering the time investment).
The unlocking system is clearly designed to milk players as much as possible. I don't think it's the worst system out there, but it's far from the better ones as well.
Personally it doesn't affect me because I couldn't care less about cosmetics, but it probably sucks for the ones that really care.
In the end the positives still far outweighs the negatives and Overwatch is a game that everyone that likes FPS should try at least once.
I'm usually very competitive but with Overwatch while I still play the objectives hard it's all about having fun. I don't care about my stats, and I don't even get frustrated at losses.
It seems that the two most controversial aspects about Overwatch are it's price and the micro transactions.
When it comes to the price, I really don't have any issues with it. I paid 60 bucks and I think the game is easily worth it. That said, there is no excuse for Blizzard not releasing a 40 bucks version of the game on console.
Ratchet and Clank is considered by all a huge success on PS4 at that same price point, paying platform holder royalties and physical store fees. And I bet it's going to sell less than Overwatch on PS4 alone.
The extras on the 60 dollar version are just not worth it. What if you don't care about the characters that got the extra skins? A better, more player friendly alternative would be bundling the 60 dollar version with a few unlock keys so that you could unlock the skins that you wanted for your favorite characters.
I think the biggest advantage to the game not being F2P is when it comes to hacking. On F2P games people caught hacking are instantly back in the game on new accounts right? That 40 bucks entry price is going to be a deterrent to some hackers out there. This might not mean anything to console players but it's a big advantage to PC gamers IMO, and well worth the price of admission.
Finally when it comes to the micro transactions I will say that I personally don't like the system.
As many others have probably said, there are numerous more player friendly ways that Blizz could monetize the game.
I played for about 12 hours and most of the stuff I got is for characters that I don't play that much. Still haven't gotten a single legendary.
It would be better to get just credits at the end of the match so you could save and buy the stuff you actually want, and giving the option to buy in game currency with real money. But that would probably be too player friendly and impact micro transaction sales in the end. (I know you have a chance of getting credits when you open loot crates, but so far you don't get enough considering the time investment).
The unlocking system is clearly designed to milk players as much as possible. I don't think it's the worst system out there, but it's far from the better ones as well.
Personally it doesn't affect me because I couldn't care less about cosmetics, but it probably sucks for the ones that really care.
In the end the positives still far outweighs the negatives and Overwatch is a game that everyone that likes FPS should try at least once.
The big problem to what you're saying is that this is a game as a service (think MMO, MOBA, etc). "Better if the game is doing financially well"... Well yeah, I hope my favorite MMO is doing financially well... Because we all know what happens when they don't...
Likewise the full price argument is no different than paying for an MMORPG and then paying a sub after that. You are paying for the development that it took to bring the game to market. They still have to keep the lights on. Still have to develop new content. That all has to get funded from somewhere.
Interfectum
Member
Your XP resets after 100. You get a new badge and go back to 1.
I mean, could tweet this topic at them or something, I think it's been proven a dozen times over that this is vastly better than virtually every other monetization system. I would happily debate it with Austin or Alex or whoever else all day, it's too easy of an argument.
Part of me likes the random loot system here because then when someone get's a cool skin it's rare to see. If you can just buy the skins the become less valuable.
The only reason they get a pass on it is because it's all visual. I really disliked the CoD system when they introduced weapons. When you start giving players a potential advantage, that's where it starts to get dicey.
The only reason they get a pass on it is because it's all visual. I really disliked the CoD system when they introduced weapons. When you start giving players a potential advantage, that's where it starts to get dicey.
I don't really think about this game in the same way I think about an MMO, though. Am I wrong? In an MMO you have teams of people constantly designing content, moderating communities, providing customer service, etc.
How much content has Blizzard said they're going to continue creating for this game after launch? How does that differentiate itself when you compare it to a game of theirs that has no microtransactions versus WoW?
How much content has Blizzard said they're going to continue creating for this game after launch? How does that differentiate itself when you compare it to a game of theirs that has no microtransactions versus WoW?
It is not possible to get all of the cosmetics in TF2 for fucking 30 cents, stop trying to misrepresent that shit. Anything that you can only get in boxes is going to cost you over a hundred dollars on the marketplace. THERE ARE NO ITEMS THIS INSIDIOUS IN OVERWATCH. period. You can't try and compare the most basic drops in TF2, which you still can't reasonably get without spending money of course (30 cents is 30 cents more than I have to spend in OW to get what I want), with the highest tier of prestige drops in both games.
https://steamcommunity.com/market/search?appid=440#p1_price_desc
Go ahead and see how many pages back to have to go before you get to the point that you're as cheap as an overwatch legendary. And then realize it also includes nothing else, where the OW legendary in terms of coins is going to also contain probably another legendary/chance at the one you wnated, and 100 other items of varying quality.
Really, I can buy all the guns cheap? I get all the guns in overwatch for free. Seems clearly superior there.
Keep coming back and posting this bullshit about TF2 being some grand magnate of fair market goods, it's easy to keep swatting it down when it's so fucking obviously not true.
Oh, I should also add that F2P players actually cannot get cosmetic drops at all until they upgrade to premium by spending money on something. Not much money, but still.
Interfectum
Member
If Overwatch had no MTs they would most likely be putting a skeleton crew on the live game while everyone else works on paid DLC (splitting the community) or Overwatch 2. You are basically asking them to make you spend more money for more OW when it's currently optional.
Loot crates for OW seem win win. I get free content, Blizzard gets money off impatient gamers.
Interfectum
Member
People holding Valve to some moral F2P standard is hilarious considering how insidious their business practices are.
http://www.dota2.com/international/battlepass
How can anyone look at that battlepass and not see straight up whale hunting is beyond me. They even have gambling imagery scattered throughout the page.
yes. instead of displaying 101 it displays 1 and has a star next to it. the cool thing about prestiging or getting a "promotion" is that instead of needing 22,000xp to get to 102 you only need 1500xp
Well, I think you could do DLC/Expansions without fragmenting the player bases in a meaningful way but I don't actually think it's a better alternative. While I personally have no problems with the MT scheme they're using, mostly speaking from a devil's advocate perspective I don't think they need to do it this way and they could make it work without MTs. Since, unless I'm wrong, this (using MTs) is relatively groundbreaking for Blizzard it's important for them to hear how their player base responds to it as a whole.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Wrong thread.
Hrm, fair enough. I am now convinced despite my comments a few pages back.
You're right that the microtransactions model sustains free game updates, so I suppose it's better than paid DLC that fractures the community.
Glass Shark
Banned
It includes a literal pachinko machine.
That's exactly how I look at it.
I'll take loot boxes if it means free maps and characters.
It is literally impossible. If you charge for DLC you will always have those who don't buy it. They way they're doing it is the ONLY way to guarantee that the player base doesn't splinter. Pay for the game once, always have all gameplay content. The second you have to pay more than once you fragment the player base.
Interfectum
Member
Only way to not fragment would be to sell heroes and not maps. And in that case you are still tipping the balance of power towards people who are spending money. The current system has nothing like that.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Actually hasn't been proven at all. Gambling on boxes isn't superior to straight up buying what u want. Unless you are speaking from blizzard perspective then yes, full price game with gambling mts is the best way to go.
Look, i'm not going to convince you that speech has more value than skins and you're not going to convince me the other way. Leave it be.
How about you answer the question that i posed that you've ignored twice?
Once again, the fairness of the microtransaction system has to do with how easy it is to get what you want without spending anything. There is no fairer system than this. Also you guys keep saying "YOU CANT GET WHAT YOU WANT" as if you're going to be spending hundreds of dolalrs and missing the one thing you REALLY want. You can buy literally any single fucking thing in the game with the gold you will get from ~20 bucks worth of shit, and you'll also get 100 other things of RNG quality. That is fucking phenomenal. To compare to the valve boxes, where you spend 2.50 and as people keep pointing out weapons are virtually worthless, you are exceedingly likely to straight up lose money, like ACTUAL gambling.
With this system you're either:
A) Getting lots of things you don't have and less gold because of it, but still enough to buy 1-2 things you really want (assuming we're talking the most expensive things, everything else is quite cheap).
B) Getting lots of dupes which in turn means lots of gold to get LOTS of things you really want.
Gee, sounds fucked up to me, either way you're going to get what you want!
Every box you buy or earn is directly increasing the gold value of future boxes that you buy or earn. So even if you started the game and bought 20 bucks worth of boxes and got unlucky and somehow didn't get a thousand gold (virtually only possible if it's the very first boxes you earn, I might add), you're still making the next 20 you earn for the easy quick starter levels more valuable and more likely to contain dupes/gold. This is a system that is guaranteed, GUARANTEED, to earn you every item in the game.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Or get this I know it's crazy, you buy/earn the in game currency, then buy the already priced items in the store. Holy shit it's like actually buying something! I know when I go to the store I don't say here is $20 I'll take what ever. Other games do that with MTs.
The only ones that benefit from current gambling system is blizzard.
I'll guess we will just let go of the MTs in $60 games is shit to, but but one of the 3 platform this game is on sells for $40 so it's not a full priced game...
Pellegri Testament
Member
The question of "why do you think Bastion is the only character in the game"? Because I did answer that, I told you to play the fucking game or listen to the lines you care about so much, before trying to act like they have any significance. Because you clearly have not done either if you believe anyone else's lines matter more than the robot noises Bastion makes.
Glass Shark
Banned
Yes, it would be nice if we could just pay a flat price to get exactly what we want. I'd be in favor of that. I'd also be in favor of Blizzard just unlocking all the skins and cosmetic stuff and having no loot box system at all. But that's not what we're talking about here.
We've spent the last 30 pages arguing over a false premise. The OP erroneously states that Overwatch has one of the worst unlocking and microtransaction systems in games, when it's been shown time and time again that there are countless examples of things that are way worse. Overwatch has one of the least pushy, most generous systems. I can't think of a better example in a game like this off the top of my head. And yet somehow people are choosing to target this game over all the others.
Pellegri Testament
Member
I honestly don't even know how to answer that without laughing. You are comparing one liners to full voice acting (when each character already has their significant voice work already unlocked), what exactly do you want me to say? Do you want me to come up with an serious answer when you haven't even put in the minimal amount of effort to see just what it is you're complaining about?
Glass Shark
Banned
I would be okay with a game that includes paid DLC for randomly generated straw man arguments.
I don't mind that the lines aren't all given upfront, I just get all of my Overwatch character development from porn gifs. Hanzo is very giving and quite close with his brother, from what I've seen.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slaty
Cheer up, OP!
He does seem pretty gray.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slaty
Cheer up, OP!
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Well I can say that too Overwatch has the worse MT system I have ever personally encountered this side of moblie or f2p stuff. Sure the unlock are mostly cosmetic (save some of the legendary skins that change gameplay). I don't play PC games so never played CS or TF2, don't play mobas.
I've bought season passes and the like in other games and I do agree that won't work here, but only game with this level of mt I have experience with are f2p and that doesn't work cause this game cost $60 on 2 of the 3 platforms it's on.
Great Game shitty MT strategy.
mikefrails
Banned
It's mostly cosmetic though.
ftfy
First I've heard of this. Can you give me an example?
None of the legendary skins affect gameplay, I have no idea where that dude is getting that from.
Some of them change the visuals and voiceovers, but not gameplay
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Apparently one of Mcree's skins changes Highnoon thing to I'm all in. Haven't tried it myself because I don't have the skin but I can confrim the audio question for some of the other skins changed as well. It was posted in the OT.
So yeah that's fucked up.
TheRedSnifit
Member
90% of hats and non-standard weapons (stranges, etc) only drop in crates and are still dirt-cheap. The majority of the ones that aren't $.30 are still less than $10. The much-vaunted Unusuals that cost obscene amounts of money probably make up less than 1% of available cosmetics (hence their value).
If I want a standard, cheap cosmetic in TF2, I can either grind for it or pay $.30 (which is the max price for 99% of cosmetics, don't act like it isn't). In OW, I can either grind for it or pay $2 for the chance of maybe getting what I want. And if I don't get it, $2 more. Suddenly, my bog-standard skin is costing me $20, $40, $60 . . . Throw in the $60 up-front price, and the difference here is obvious.
I'm not saying TF2 is fair. It's unfair, abusive, and manipulative, which makes it even more incredible that Overwatch manages to be even worse.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Audio cues are a HUGE part of the game, to say otherwise is just ignorant.
Changing audio clips isn't changing gameplay. That's a load of nonsense.
Uh, yeah. The legendary skins still have audio cues and they're still super obvious.
Glass Shark
Banned
I hope one day you are equally as passionate about something in your real life as you are about this non-issue in a video game.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Only cosmetic* unlocks?
*unless you listens for audio cues...
One would hope but alas....
McRee saying "I'm all in" instead of "It's high noon" matters as little as Lucio wearing hockey pads instead of his DJ attire.
I mean, I understand why a consumer would prefer to have all legendary skins unlocked from the start, but some people in this thread are treating this like a human rights violation. Plenty of things are fucked up, Blizzard locking cool outfits and appropriate audio cues for videogame characters behind a virtual slot machine is not one of them.
I agree, TF2 is clearly worse on every way and arguing that Overwatch is worse is incredibly stupid.
Time and again it's been shown that
1. You don't need to spend a cent to unlock EVERYTHING!
2. You unlock things FASTER as time progresses and you have dupes.
3. When you prestige your level literally resets and you're suddenly earning crates 20 times faster.
4. By YOUR OWN ADMISSION TF2 needs you to pay money!
This isn't even close to comparable tible, the TF2 is terrible and requires you to pay money. I don't care if it's $50, $10, or even .30 cents or less! It loses!
Not to mention to get random fee unlocks you need to spend a small amount of money.
The idea that a system that literally forces you to pay money is better than one that is completely free, offers only cosmetic items, and earns you stuff faster and faster as you play is simply ludicrous.
Overwatch is a F2P game?
Doesn't counter any point I've made in this thread at all
(Including the points I've made in the so called locked "dialogue" which is also a disingenuous argument.
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Not really the skin means nothing from a distance, the audio cues and incoming attack. You know to get your ass out of doge when you hear It's high noon. If it didn't matter why have him announce it at all. The point is to warn other people to movie or get killed.
But then hey doesn't bug me much personally, just mentioned it to show that not all the unlocks are purely cosmetic some actually change the game.