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Overwatch |OT10| That'll do pig, that'll do

F

Fixed2BeBroken

Member
caesar said:
Stylosa isn't exactly great at the game, lets see what a real dva player can do.
Click to expand...

dont really need to see a great Dva player cause when they go against a great soldier and tracer, baby dva will just get exposed. I dont need to see them to figure it out. 2sec dm wih 10sec recharge. do the math.
 
J

Jellie

Member
AbadabadaFadi said:
That Reaper clip
Click to expand...

image.php
 
S

Stallion Dan

Member
randome said:
Anyone on PS4 changed around their settings for pharah? For some reason she seems so weird for me to control. I use X to hover instead of L2 because I can't get used to it. I'm convinced she's the best way to progress. She's such a pain in the ass to play against and always distracts and/or kills my whole team.
Click to expand...

Put jump on L2, it lets you hover but jumps you first so you get just a little more air time than just hover.
 
S

SgtWiggles

Member
Really wish this game had some sort of vote to abandon a match option without penalty but not having to stay in an obvious loss.

Currently stuck on Horizon with a team of SR 3900 DPS mains, we have 0 Tanks, 0 Healers, nobody is in voice chat, and nobody is swapping.

And of course in my next game 3 of the throwers are on the other team and actually trying, while I get a new dumbass team with a solo healing Zen
 
L

LiK

Member
solo q has been 1-2 and both losses were a result of a thrower and a guy who DCed. Lame as hell. Matches aren't even that tough today.
 
S

SgtWiggles

Member
Yup today is idiot day. On Volskaya we drew on a match we had 6 minutes to hit just 1 notch on the second point because our team refused to get off Widow, Hanzo and Tracer and run a single tank and healer.

Enemy team literally had no tanks and a solo healing Mercy.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
FatCatAttack said:
Overwatch when it first came out probably had the best honeymoon period of any shooter that I played. Everyone was super friendly. I remember the moment where I got bit by the Hanzo bug. Enemy team was defending hanamura with a full gun line of bastions. I sneak off to the side and unleash a dragon that kills all of them and we cap. I get the full 11 votes from teammates and enemy for swapping TO Hanzo and countering the enemy. It's surreal looking back at that now and remembering that it was only a year ago. It feels like 10 years ago.

IMO Overwatch's toxicity problem is rooted several major issues.

1. Game lacks proper information conveyance. If you let your users "gap-fill" their own conclusions you create a system where toxicity spirals out of control, because nine times out of ten they gap-fill by blaming teammates.

2. Casual play and competitive play isn't differentiated enough. 6 v 6 makes sense in a comp environment because it's hard to wrangle more players to makes teams with more members. Part of the reason why highlander teams were so janky in TF2 was how difficult it was to get nine people together to practice. But 6 v 6 in quickplay creates a shit environment for fun and experimentation because it has all the individual pressure placed on people from the small team size and none of the competitve incentives to play well because it's "just quickplay." These problems are often exacerbated in arcade mode with even smaller teamsizes. This pressures people to play Comp to get good games. Initially this was the only reason why I even bothered to try comp in first place because quickplay became so shit. Pressuring people to play a mode to play the "real game" is a recipe for toxicity. It would have made far more sense for the regular game to have been 12 v 12 cluster fucks and have tournament mode be the offshoot for enthusiasts. This eases pressure on the meta as well since some characters can thrive in one mode even if they aren't featured in the other. For example, having a symmetra only player in a 12 v 12 pub game would be far more accepted and appreciated than in a 6 v 6 game.

3. Not enough solo play carry potential. It might seem like a weird notion but it is entirely possible for a team based game to be TOO team based. And that is IMO certainly the case with Overwatch. The carrying capacity of individual characters is too low and the need to overly cooperate creates a recipe for blame games. A recipe for toxic behavior. Early on when TF2 was released and you had shit maps like dustbowl and 2fort, and the completely insane launch Demoman; the game basically required multiple medics syncing their ubers together to breach points otherwise you'd never get through the spam. This caused a spike in "team player" servers like the infamous Texas Team Players server which was basically a toxic soup of butthurt where people screamed at you if you put a sentry in the "wrong" place. Over time changes made to the game and unlocks made it so you could be extremely independent. No medic? No problem. Just use the Black box, mad milk, etc. A good player in TF2 could carry a lot of trashcans. In fact most TF2 pubs were basically the top three players versus each other while the surrounding goombas and koopa troopas did their own thing. People deliberately afking as sandvich heavies or spy crabs were just part of the scenery. An afk torb in Overwatch however is a great cause for alarm.

4. The tank-dps-healer paradigm or the holy trinity as it is sometimes called is a shit framework for game design, ESPECIALLY for an action fps game. A lot of people might balk at this, but this system is just awful. People play first person shooters by and large to shooter persons first. Two out of the three core roles are designed around wiping the bottoms of the guys doing the shooting. Not exactly a glamorous job. And yes, there are people who like playing these roles but that motivation springs out of them solely. It's not fostered by the game by any incentive other than "I'd rather not lose." Compare that to other games with supports, like DOTA, where they have their own unique responsibilities and gameplay loops: rotations, stacking, warding, ganking along with their own spells. A Lion having a very good game with blink, forcestaff, euls has a ton of outplay potential compared to a carry like wraithking and PA who are designed around smacking something until it dies, for example. I remember an overwatch game where this mccree screamed at me for not killing a lucio when I was a mercy. The lucio was afk on the cart in Route 66. I was blue beaming the mccree and he missed one full clip of left clicks, a stun grenade (yes he tried to stun a guy who wasn't moving), and a fan the hammer. He did zero damage. But it was my fault even though he was the one shooting. There is NO AMOUNT of health you can stuff in these potatoes to help them. Conversely, in a true moba, even the shittiest carry will get items EVENTUALLY and accidentally attack move into the enemy base EVENTUALLY if you make enough space for them.

5. Bad balance. Self-explanatory and a common problem in games sinces good balance is pretty hard to achieve but like every other point in this list all the other Overwatch problems feed into each other making what individually would be smaller problems much worse. Not enough characters are viable at any one time. The game utterly failed in it's concept of switching to hero counters because the game revolves around mirror match ups. If not exact mirrors, than mirrors of the same strategy. You didn't have reaper comps to counter the tank meta for example, just another tank blob. People get bored of doing the same stuff and want to try new things. Other people don't want other people to try new things. Shitstorm ensues etc. Overwatch is basically the videogame equivalent to those dance movies like Stomp the Yard, where everyone has to dance the same little dance to win the big competition and someone has a breakdown and hides in their treehouse crying into their anime or whatever.

Basically, Overwatch needs. A true fun havey mode that is chaotic enough to mask personality responsibility but still has a general game flow, a greater sense of personal impact and accomplishment, and a more flexible meta that allows people to express themselves while still being competitive. You have all these wonderful characters with their own mechanics but you aren't "allowed" to touch over half of them without getting smacked on the nose with a newspaper because of "reasons" both in game and in the 'metagame' and people wonder why the game is toxic?
Click to expand...

I noticed this pretty early on. I like the game a lot but at this point it's far, far more compareable to a moba than TF2. I don't like it the ways I loved TF2. It's not good for 'i'm gonna jump in and get some time and have some fun and it doesnt really matter if i win or lose' the matches are so short b ut you can't just quit whenever or you'll eventually get a leavers pentalty even in qp and you'll feel bad leaving a team so drastically unmanned for a moment even in qp because of the small team size. you can't queue into a specific map or mode you want to play and there's a chance you can't play the hero you want to play

its the result of chasing esports, for better or worse. i dont know if there's really a shooter right now that gives me the same feeling old team fortress 2 or tribes 2 or UT gave me
 
S

SgtWiggles

Member
Can't wait till next season so Mercy will actualy be meta so we can have a legit excuse to rage at people who still think Zenyatta or Ana are anywhere near strong enough to solo heal a team against a Mercy or Zen+Lucio.
 
L

LiK

Member
No one wants to play tanks. They wonder why we get rolled. I'm the only tank so guess who gets focused on the most.
 
S

SgtWiggles

Member
LiK said:
No one wants to play tanks. They wonder why we get rolled. I'm the only tank so guess who gets focused on the most.
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm a Tank main, and it seems like half the time this week I can't even Tank because we barely have 1 healer keeping me up. And apparently its only obvious to tank mains what happens in a tank battle when one is getting pocketed and the other isnt.

I have been playing self healers like Mei and Hog like crazy, and its annoying the fuck out of me. I don't heal because people don't tank often (Or well), and now I can't even Tank because people constantly want to run jank comps that leave me squishy or unable to do anything.

Currently in a match with a dude who has 54 hours as Mercy and like 40 as Lucio, and he's fucking playing Roadhog in a match with no other healers
 
B

Blues1990

Member
Carl-Sagan said:
I'm only three event skins away from completing the entire Summer Games collection. If I get one of the three legendaries I'm missing, I can buy the remainder with saved up gold!
Click to expand...

Good luck.

LiK said:
No one wants to play tanks. They wonder why we get rolled. I'm the only tank so guess who gets focused on the most.
Click to expand...

Something tells me there's someone out there that needs to be blown up!
 
L

LAM09

Member
Not sure what's going on with comp today. Keep getting disconnected or being stuck on the main screen despite the match starting.
 
S

Shredderi

Member
FatCatAttack said:
Overwatch when it first came out probably had the best honeymoon period of any shooter that I played. Everyone was super friendly. I remember the moment where I got bit by the Hanzo bug. Enemy team was defending hanamura with a full gun line of bastions. I sneak off to the side and unleash a dragon that kills all of them and we cap. I get the full 11 votes from teammates and enemy for swapping TO Hanzo and countering the enemy. It's surreal looking back at that now and remembering that it was only a year ago. It feels like 10 years ago.

IMO Overwatch's toxicity problem is rooted several major issues.

1. Game lacks proper information conveyance. If you let your users "gap-fill" their own conclusions you create a system where toxicity spirals out of control, because nine times out of ten they gap-fill by blaming teammates.

2. Casual play and competitive play isn't differentiated enough. 6 v 6 makes sense in a comp environment because it's hard to wrangle more players to makes teams with more members. Part of the reason why highlander teams were so janky in TF2 was how difficult it was to get nine people together to practice. But 6 v 6 in quickplay creates a shit environment for fun and experimentation because it has all the individual pressure placed on people from the small team size and none of the competitve incentives to play well because it's "just quickplay." These problems are often exacerbated in arcade mode with even smaller teamsizes. This pressures people to play Comp to get good games. Initially this was the only reason why I even bothered to try comp in first place because quickplay became so shit. Pressuring people to play a mode to play the "real game" is a recipe for toxicity. It would have made far more sense for the regular game to have been 12 v 12 cluster fucks and have tournament mode be the offshoot for enthusiasts. This eases pressure on the meta as well since some characters can thrive in one mode even if they aren't featured in the other. For example, having a symmetra only player in a 12 v 12 pub game would be far more accepted and appreciated than in a 6 v 6 game.

3. Not enough solo play carry potential. It might seem like a weird notion but it is entirely possible for a team based game to be TOO team based. And that is IMO certainly the case with Overwatch. The carrying capacity of individual characters is too low and the need to overly cooperate creates a recipe for blame games. A recipe for toxic behavior. Early on when TF2 was released and you had shit maps like dustbowl and 2fort, and the completely insane launch Demoman; the game basically required multiple medics syncing their ubers together to breach points otherwise you'd never get through the spam. This caused a spike in "team player" servers like the infamous Texas Team Players server which was basically a toxic soup of butthurt where people screamed at you if you put a sentry in the "wrong" place. Over time changes made to the game and unlocks made it so you could be extremely independent. No medic? No problem. Just use the Black box, mad milk, etc. A good player in TF2 could carry a lot of trashcans. In fact most TF2 pubs were basically the top three players versus each other while the surrounding goombas and koopa troopas did their own thing. People deliberately afking as sandvich heavies or spy crabs were just part of the scenery. An afk torb in Overwatch however is a great cause for alarm.

4. The tank-dps-healer paradigm or the holy trinity as it is sometimes called is a shit framework for game design, ESPECIALLY for an action fps game. A lot of people might balk at this, but this system is just awful. People play first person shooters by and large to shooter persons first. Two out of the three core roles are designed around wiping the bottoms of the guys doing the shooting. Not exactly a glamorous job. And yes, there are people who like playing these roles but that motivation springs out of them solely. It's not fostered by the game by any incentive other than "I'd rather not lose." Compare that to other games with supports, like DOTA, where they have their own unique responsibilities and gameplay loops: rotations, stacking, warding, ganking along with their own spells. A Lion having a very good game with blink, forcestaff, euls has a ton of outplay potential compared to a carry like wraithking and PA who are designed around smacking something until it dies, for example. I remember an overwatch game where this mccree screamed at me for not killing a lucio when I was a mercy. The lucio was afk on the cart in Route 66. I was blue beaming the mccree and he missed one full clip of left clicks, a stun grenade (yes he tried to stun a guy who wasn't moving), and a fan the hammer. He did zero damage. But it was my fault even though he was the one shooting. There is NO AMOUNT of health you can stuff in these potatoes to help them. Conversely, in a true moba, even the shittiest carry will get items EVENTUALLY and accidentally attack move into the enemy base EVENTUALLY if you make enough space for them.

5. Bad balance. Self-explanatory and a common problem in games sinces good balance is pretty hard to achieve but like every other point in this list all the other Overwatch problems feed into each other making what individually would be smaller problems much worse. Not enough characters are viable at any one time. The game utterly failed in it's concept of switching to hero counters because the game revolves around mirror match ups. If not exact mirrors, than mirrors of the same strategy. You didn't have reaper comps to counter the tank meta for example, just another tank blob. People get bored of doing the same stuff and want to try new things. Other people don't want other people to try new things. Shitstorm ensues etc. Overwatch is basically the videogame equivalent to those dance movies like Stomp the Yard, where everyone has to dance the same little dance to win the big competition and someone has a breakdown and hides in their treehouse crying into their anime or whatever.

Basically, Overwatch needs. A true fun havey mode that is chaotic enough to mask personality responsibility but still has a general game flow, a greater sense of personal impact and accomplishment, and a more flexible meta that allows people to express themselves while still being competitive. You have all these wonderful characters with their own mechanics but you aren't "allowed" to touch over half of them without getting smacked on the nose with a newspaper because of "reasons" both in game and in the 'metagame' and people wonder why the game is toxic?
Click to expand...

Fucking A. Summed up exactly my problems with the game. God it was just fun and relaxing to hop onto a familiar custom server I always went to, where I knew just about everyone and just about everyone knew me, and have some fun where I did my best, but didn't feel the pressure like I do, even in QP in Overwatch.
 
T

THe_DeiCiDe

Member
LiK said:
Story of my life.

Just had a match where people threw right at the beginning. These players need to be dropped down to Bronze and never return.
Click to expand...


I've had 2 different people tell me that they were throwing to get their SR as low as possible so next season they could 'farm cp' after placements.

It's just sad.
 
I

Incendiary

Banned
LiK said:
solo q has been 1-2 and both losses were a result of a thrower and a guy who DCed. Lame as hell. Matches aren't even that tough today.
Click to expand...

SgtWiggles said:
Yup today is idiot day. On Volskaya we drew on a match we had 6 minutes to hit just 1 notch on the second point because our team refused to get off Widow, Hanzo and Tracer and run a single tank and healer.

Enemy team literally had no tanks and a solo healing Mercy.
Click to expand...

These ringing endorsements make me think I'm gonna skip comp for the remainder of the season (at least solo q comp) and just hope that next season is better. I'd rather not risk falling below the 2500 Platinum threshold this close to the end.
 
S

SgtWiggles

Member
Incendiary said:
These ringing endorsements make me think I'm gonna skip comp for the remainder of the season (at least solo q comp) and just hope that next season is better. I'd rather not risk falling below the 2500 Platinum threshold this close to the end.
Click to expand...

Lol my experience is from Masters/GM. But yeah its super iffy today.

Actually finally managed to get on a winstreak currently, at my 4th one now and back to 3830, I'm just gonna go till I lose then call it.
 
W

waitwhat42

Member
It's kinda pointless to complain about comp at the end of the season but goddam lol

Almost every game you get 4-5 people all picking offense heroes.

Oh well.
 
L

LiK

Member
I'm done for the season. Dropped a bit thanks to these awful solo q matches today. Won my last one and went back up in 2700s. Season high was 2909 and I never got back to break the Diamond wall. My Diamond streak is broken. Good riddance to S5 and I hope S6 is a much better experience with the changes. The toxicity this season was unbearable.

GG to waitwhat who joined me for a few games. We won most of them.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
3 DPS, 2 snipers and 1 begrudging healer who had to choose between that or tank is really the new meta on console at least.
Embrace the madness.

On a positive note, I finally got another Mei PotG allowing me to witness the ice scream highlight I got back at Halloween, the fact it was against a six stack that included a top 500 player was delish, in your face awful solo matchmaking.
 
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