Wait, you did that just by playing Mercy?
Overwatch |OT10| That'll do pig, that'll do
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Forerunner
Member
Nah, fuck Mercy. It probably be higher if I did. I played Lucio, Zen, or Ana.
It's been overpowered since last year then. Hog also used to deal so much damage to her, making her behave and not be so aggressive all the time, but not anymore.
I am resorting to playing support roles lately.
Just because it enrages me to see people disregarding the need for one and going for the typical genji.
Why would you get matched against T500 in Plat? Do you live in New Zealand?
Forerunner
Member
Yeah, players aren't too bright for the most part. One of the games I lost, I was the only support and this duo was bitching at me for doing a "bad" job. Yet, this dumbfuck is playing widow on attack. We had one tank (Zarya lol, really bad pick for only one tank) and the rest were offensive.
No, but I was playing at 3am to 6am. So that's probably it. All my later games were like Diamonds/Masters.
TWrecks310
Banned
You're really underestimating how important the defense matrix buff was.
Also her defense matrix was relatively OP then too but the state of the game was different so it didn't stick out as much as a meta defining skill.
I am triggered just reading this.
Some other time, I was the only one healing as everybody else refused to go with two healers.
I went with Lucio because I thought he would be the best option to heal them.
I asked them to keep tight as my healing is situational.
They did exactly the opposite.
Everybody went their way and I had a tough time.
As they were doing that one of them was spamming the "I need healing emote"
Yeah, we lost.
I had to close it down for the day. Too much for me.
TWrecks310
Banned
Don't worry. Doomfist is coming to save you and all the other Ana mains!
For real though I've seen discussion among pros that the meta could shift through Doomfist countering Winston and specifically D.VA as he can protect the back like well. If D.Va is not sitting in front of the support's face, Ana will become much more viable again. If Ana is more viable, you will see a return of tanks like Reinhardt and at the very least something different from dive.
Nuno Pinto
Member
I'm not, I even refered that's what made her having more usage in pro play (which is probably the best compliment that can be made). I said that besides that buff the DM is still basically the same as it was 1 year ago (I know that at one time there was no 1s cooldown but I can't remember if that made it out of PTR).
It think it's the perfect kind of "shield" for a dive comp. They can adjust it sure, but I feel like there has to be something stopping the damage for coming in, Winston bubble isn't enough.
Agree w/ the DM. So annoying. My favorite is when you're fighting a dude in front of you and d.va DMs from behind you (facing the same direction as you) and it eats your damage.
TWrecks310
Banned
I think her defense matrix should be nerfed, but I certainly don't want it be obliterated (currently a D.VA main!). The question is, how do you nerf it? I have zero ideas other than to reduce her maximum amount of cool down and that's not the direction I would want to take the character anyway. I wish there was a way to make defense matrix more skill intensive than it is currently but it's hard to picture how exactly that could be done.
Stallion Dan
Member
To be fair golden weapons being tied to comp is pretty BS. I bet a lot of players play comp just for that and don't really care about team play or anything else.
finalflame
Banned
DM is fine. Why are people always whining about something? People whined about Hog enough that now he's useless.
DM has been the same for ages now, nothing has changed. Now people are starting to bitch because it affects them due to the dive-y meta.
Nuno Pinto
Member
They can try to mess with a lot of stuff (range, radius, duration, charge rate after used, increase the 1s cooldown).
But yeah, if they decide to "adjust" her I just hope they don't destroy the character.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
this
finalflame
Banned
If they really wanted golden weapons you'd think they'd be interested in winning rather than losing. With that said, I've yet to encounter any shitheads in comp who claim they are being shitheads because they're only there to get golden weapons.
At one point people wanted D.Va to eat Zarya's beam because the huge focus was on how OP Zarya was. Mind you, nothing has changed about D.Va since then, but Zarya's energy has been nerfed.
If you don't like D.Va fucking your team, get a Zarya and tell her to aim her beam into DM. I still play quite a bit of Zarya and my first priority after deleting low-hanging squishies is getting D.Va out of her mech. It's REALLY not hard if your team can tell its head from its ass.
Got to agree, I think it's fine at the moment. People need to learn how to play around it, paying attention to when DM is up or when the meter is down.
For example, when I'm soldier and lighting the DVa up, I know she will use DM.
I light her up
She activates DM
I stop shooting and reload
She either drops it or keeps it up
I shoot when it drops and have enough to bring her down to where she has to flee
When I used to play Mei a lot and enemy team had Dva, I would freeze her before popping the ult, or use it when she had her back turned to me. Same for Zarya, basically melt her down first or ult when she has back turned.
The only annoying thing for me is when I ult with 76 (when she's not there) and then she flies in to save team with her DM. That's annoying but if the player has the awareness to do that, then that's good for them.
I have a problem with DM because it effectively accomplishes the same as Sound Barrier and Transcendence as a standard ability, and it is pretty much always available. Rein shield can only block damage from certain angles, and shoving DM into someones face makes it easier for your DPS to jump in and kill as well.
I think the better solution is to figure out how to get her counters back into the game, because they both (Zarya and Mei) are shit against dive. Zarya can't build up enough energy in this meta, and when she does she can't keep up with D.Va to do enough damage. Mei is better IMO, she gives D.Va a hard time on close quarters maps, but she doesn't provide enough damage all around either.
Zarya would naturally come back into the game once say Winston was nerfed and if it meant Reinhardt would resurface as well. Mei probably needs a faster fire rate on her icicle, so she can substitute another DPS. Basically that's a problem with most of the heroes you see at the bottom, they may have unique abilities that are useful but damage and kill potential tops them.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
with the current meta, zen discord + winston will get Dva out that mech regardless of DM.
only time I can't as winston is if mercy is pocketing, which at that point I kill mercy.
Carl-Sagan
Member
Lots of cooldown abilities counter a lot of ults, though, and I like that. Winston can bubble a D.va ult, Genji can deflect McCree's, Tracer can rewind out of almost any threatening ult, etc. Matrix is very, very versatile I agree - but it feels prudent to have an ability like that on a tank. It's not like her DPS is all that.
The Artful Dodger
Member
My issue is how rarely ppl focus D.Va or try to attack her from two sides.
if I'm playing Sombra when she tries to defense I just try to hack her, if I'm playing other ppl I try to put her in a spot where she's between me and other members of my team.
TWrecks310
Banned
If you are reliably doing that you are facing some really bad teams.
Incendiary
Banned
I remember a few months ago everyone was saying that D.Va was dead and not going to get any more play time when they switched her health to 200 armor/400 regular because she died too fast. Now suddenly DM is a huge problem people can't work around?
It's like when trip tank meta was in full swing and everyone was complaining that Reinhardt's shield was too good and he needed to be nerfed. And now Reinhardt is not meta anymore and suddenly that problem went away even though nothing was done to Rein at all (except the Earthshatter nerf but that isn't related to the problems people had with him).
I've been playing comp for 5 hours now and every single game has a Hanzo smurf that ignores the team comp and they generally are all shit, I have no idea how I managed to climb out of plat because it's literally an elo hell, I mean I have two accounts at GM and Masters and I literally can't climb out of 2990 on my third account I win then lose because of hanzo/widow/genji mains every single game. Fuck solo queue on console, especially in lower ranks.
A tip kind of obvious that most people don't take advantage of: If you're a support (Ana or Zen especially) and a Winston jumps you, you should turn your back from him and move forward and jump. If you jump when his slam hits you it should send you flying in the direction you're moving and out of range from his beam.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I hear scrims are getting a lot more pharmacy and McCree and Ana in the mix because they're feeling forced to counterpick doomfist.
Ana sleepdarts are like 100% accuracy on doomfist, given the hitbox and every ability putting you on a set path.
There needs to be more of a balance between Dive and Barrier strategies. I think that defense characters need a broad buff and dive characters could use a something of a nerf. This is especially so because Dive is about to get it's crowning champion with Doomfist.
I wouldn't mind seeing D.Va revert back to her original 400armor-100 health healthbar. Similarly, maybe bring Winston down a peg so maybe cut 100 health from him too.
Hog needs his damage back. I'm sorry Hog haters, but whats happened now is just dumb.
Mei could use a buff, either to her freezing speed or her icicle. She'd be great defending against Dive.
I think Junkrat could use SOMETHING as well, but I don't know what. He feels like a character that would be super useful against Dive with his traps, if only he didn't suck otherwise. His ult is straight up the worst. Give Riptire a health buff, maybe give him a larger clip size, and maybe that will all work.
And, as always, delete Soldier: 76.
I wouldn't mind seeing D.Va revert back to her original 400armor-100 health healthbar. Similarly, maybe bring Winston down a peg so maybe cut 100 health from him too.
Hog needs his damage back. I'm sorry Hog haters, but whats happened now is just dumb.
Mei could use a buff, either to her freezing speed or her icicle. She'd be great defending against Dive.
I think Junkrat could use SOMETHING as well, but I don't know what. He feels like a character that would be super useful against Dive with his traps, if only he didn't suck otherwise. His ult is straight up the worst. Give Riptire a health buff, maybe give him a larger clip size, and maybe that will all work.
And, as always, delete Soldier: 76.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
this statement is dumb. or I could have good healers and dps that focus my targets?
waitwhat42
Member
Thinking about it today I kinda sympathize with the guy. Quickplay sucks. I like the 3 win, attack/defend ruleset in comp and there is at least a chance of teamwork and communication. But everybody freaks out on you if you pick any defense character.
TWrecks310
Banned
My point is that if you are playing Winston and are able to quickly kill her when she has discord on her, you are playing either a bad D.Va, bad healers, bad peeling DPS, or all of the above. D.Va is strong against Winston, so I don't understand how you could consistently kill her in the way you stated.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
thank god you're not on the balancing team. Winston already is the squishiest tank. you want him to just explode right when he jumps in?
Winston literally only had like one change and that was barrier. Winston is fine. Blizz just changed alot about other heroes which brought Winston up more
I never said quickly.
but discord + me getting healed + me playing around my barrier, I can pop her out. but it's def not a quick process. if I dont pop her out she just runs away.
but to just chalk it up to bad team is stupid. you talk as if Winston is a tier 5.
TheThinWhiteDuke
Member
Huh. Thanks!
Incendiary
Banned
Trip tank meta in full swing:
"Ugh, triple tanks suck, dive characters are super fun to play as, I wish dives were more popular in the meta."
Dive meta in full swing:
"Nerf all the dive characters, please."
Was it really just the Winston bubble change that started the dive meta dominos? I can't recall any other changes being that major to thrust dives up, besides Ana's nerf.
Honesty in this current setup I'm having the most fun playing "meta" characters since OW was released. Of course Tracer/Winston/DVa/Lucio/Zen have always been my favorite characters to play as so I guess it makes sense.
Only when the Junkrat meta finally shows up will I be the happiest, though.
"Ugh, triple tanks suck, dive characters are super fun to play as, I wish dives were more popular in the meta."
Dive meta in full swing:
"Nerf all the dive characters, please."
Was it really just the Winston bubble change that started the dive meta dominos? I can't recall any other changes being that major to thrust dives up, besides Ana's nerf.
Honesty in this current setup I'm having the most fun playing "meta" characters since OW was released. Of course Tracer/Winston/DVa/Lucio/Zen have always been my favorite characters to play as so I guess it makes sense.
Only when the Junkrat meta finally shows up will I be the happiest, though.
Yeah, I wasn't 100% sure about that change myself, which is why I used uncertain language.
I'm just throwing out general ideas rather than solid suggestions that I am 100% confident will work. Other than deleting soldier, of course.
TWrecks310
Banned
Winston's bubble change is what did it yeah. I don't remember when D.Va's matrix was changed but that brought up her power level a lot too. It's those two that need to be nerfed the most if anyone will be getting them, as they are the ones holding the current dive meta together.
I actually think the meta is pretty good in standard competitive play, it's really only bad in the esports scene.
TimeEffect
Member
So I have 9 min of tracer in my 90 hr career
I just discovered her greatness. God she is so annoying
Omg total recall restores health!?
I just discovered her greatness. God she is so annoying
Omg total recall restores health!?
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
lol bubble change itself didnt change the meta. its changes to other heroes over time that changed it to dive. but bubble by itself didnt change the meta
Incendiary
Banned
It's definitely the straw that broke the camel's back at the very least. I don't think we'd be seeing dive in the shape it's in now with Winston's old cooldown.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
eh i disagree. Winston was already good on certain maps.
dive was slowly becoming popular and with changes to a multitude of heroes it became the better option.
Did we start seeing more Dive after the bubble change? sure. but is that THE reason? of course not. theres alot more reasons. if all the other changes didnt go through, and the only change was the "bubble," dive wouldnt be the meta.
TWrecks310
Banned
Winston was already getting played in the pro scene with standard pick rates and win rates. When the changes were announced, a lot pro players said that if the changes went through, he would be overpowered. Considering Winston is the most played non-Lucio character in the pro scene, I think they were right. Go find the opinion of any professional player or coach and they will tell you Winston and D.Va are too strong right now.
I would also say one understated factor is that Tracer basically has no viable counter to her. Like, I don't think she's overpowered exactly, but there's no hero that can specifically deal with her abilities. Mei is supposed to be one, but she basically always dashes away. It's kinda why I want to see Junkrat enter the meta a little. His traps is one of the few things that truly shuts down Tracer.
LucidMomentum
Member
Y'all don't remember the 2 Winston 2 Lucio 1 Tracer Meta?