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[Jonnax]

I see those people and their actions and yes, I would call them uneducated and ignorant. I'm a Muslim and this kind of behavior is incomprehensible to me. :/

Well I think they are crazy but I think it's dishonest to say that they are not educated. It's sort of like trying to excuse them as if they could not know any better.

 

[nilbog21]

An international law needs to be passed where one cannot hurt the feelings of a muslim. sounds legit

 

[m_shortpants]

Well I think they are crazy but I think it's dishonest to say that they are not educated. It's sort of like trying to excuse them as if they could not know any better.

Well, as I mentioned I am Muslim and I find their behavior appalling. They too are apparently Muslim.

So what makes us different? The culture? The (type of) education? The environment? What makes us react so differently to the same book/religious teachings?

 

[Ashes]

Tell me. Is the Koran the word of God as delivered to prophet or not?

Yes. But you and I cannot meet eye to eye, because I presume religion [all religion] falls under the realm of superstition to you. And superstition is antithetical to rational thinking. I think I understand your position. Believe me I do.

There is a gulf between our [yours and mine] understanding of the world. The size of that gulf also exists between how I, in London, understand Islam, and someone, in Pakistan, calling for hangings. A gap that is similar in size between my self and the Saudi dictatorship.

So you, when you say something like this:

How's things going for the Muslim intellectual in Saudi Arabia getting 1000 lashes?

I just shake my head. Because I get the feeling that you do not get why that correlation, or better put, counter-example [or intellectual counter-punch] doesn't work. Because we've had this conversation before, and you seem unable to comprehend that Muslims interpret Islam differently. There is no monolithic state of Islam.

My positions are more similar to the person who has been lashed a thousand times, than the dictatorship that choose to carry out the punishment.

 

[kneePat]

Yes. But you and I cannot meet eye to eye, because I presume religion [all religion] falls under the realm of superstition to you. And superstition is antithetical to rational thinking. I think I understand your position. Believe me I do.

I can not adequately engage you until you elaborate on this statement, because I think it totally intellectually dishonest.

You are accusing a non-believer, who may be indicting those who believe, of being superstitious. Ridiculous. What the fuck? Please explain.

 

[cripterion]

hanged immediately is a terrible thing to wish to happen

Hey, at least it's correctly spelled, gotta give them credit for that. Truly the "prophet's prestige" right here.

 

[Ashes]

I can not adequately engage you until you elaborate on this statement, because I think it totally intellectually dishonest.

You are accusing a non-believer, who is indicting those who believe, of being superstitious. Ridiculous. What the fuck? Please explai

Huh? It was a presumption on my part, but it seems like reasonable assumption, giving statements made in this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=147896921&postcount=525
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=147949292&postcount=544

It isn't just that. But it's not like I haven't seen or read speculawyer's posts in lots of other threads to get a general gist of what his attitude to religion is. He's not going to wear a I heart religion badge anytime soon I don't think.

 

[Kenshin001]

Like I said there are tens of millions of smartly dressed clean shaven Pakistanis that are talking about the cartoons and killings in a civil manner, but we'll never see that image because it's not news.

Uneducated, you say?
Have look at this. Bunch of lawyers burning french flags and calling for an international law againsy blasphamy.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...-lawyers-charlie-hebdo-karachi-pakistan-video

Had to laugh when I saw this because I remembered Stereogatari's comment about smartly dressed clean shaven Pakistanis and there they are beating and burning effigies and generally being just as intolerant as the bearded crazies.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

An international law needs to be passed where one cannot hurt the feelings of a muslim. sounds legit

The Pope mirrored these feelings as well, you're unlikely to find any religion that doesn't want to censor.

 

[Stereogatari]

This shit really just seems like a way for people to blow off steam. It's become an excuse to rile up people.

No one tripped balls when this happened.

That happened at a time when Islam VS The West was less of a thing. The current geopolitical climate is particularly ripe to be exploited by religious fundamentalists and the World is even more globalised than it was then.

Had to laugh when I saw this because I remembered Stereogatari's comment about smartly dressed clean shaven Pakistanis and there they are beating and burning effigies and generally being just as intolerant as the bearded crazies.

You got me to be fair. Haha I guess I better stick to my own country Turkey when trying to show how civil Muslims can be, Pakistan truly is a circus of a country.

 

[dripdripsplash]

These threads involving Islam are always fun to watch from afar. The same usual suspects show up trying to explain away some horrific or incomprehensible event while quoting the Quran or Haddiths, and never actually succeeding in coming off as either reasonable or intellectually honest.

I'd wager any sum that not a single interpretation of Islam, no matter how liberal, will ever make sense to the majority of citizens in the Western world. Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations is a great primer on this subject and should be read by anyone who has interest in Islam's integration with Western culture.

HAHAHAH you're seriously not reccomnding Huntington right now are you ????????

Made by a neocon hawk and sharply lambasted by academics all over the world for his simplification of the whole world into 7 civilizations.

His whole premise lies on the notion that these civilizations naturally are united entities which is complete bullshit and can be disproved and invalidated by just taking a look at Al Jazeeras News Headlines which shows muslims/arabs/whatever fighting each other every single day. Golf countries allied with the US, no action on part of arab leaders with regards to Palestine and so on and so forth.

This goes to show a complete disaproval of his premise and therefore his entire work.

It's trash.

 

[Hyperactivity]

These threads involving Islam are always fun to watch from afar. The same usual suspects show up trying to explain away some horrific or incomprehensible event while quoting the Quran or Haddiths, and never actually succeeding in coming off as either reasonable or intellectually honest.

I'd wager any sum that not a single interpretation of Islam, no matter how liberal, will ever make sense to the majority of citizens in the Western world. Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations is a great primer on this subject and should be read by anyone who has interest in Islam's integration with Western culture.

If we're talking about integration of Muslims into the west, then I reccomend you read the Myth of the Muslim Tide: Do Immigrants Threaten the West by Doug Sanders

Even if you have an argument regarding Muslims in the Middle East, you hardly have one regarding Muslims in the West and whether they are some sort of menace that has to be expelled. He goes over how similar things were expected of, say, Irish Catholics immigrating to Britain while the IRA was still very much at large

Found a link that goes over some of ideas he argues against, quoting straight out of the book, although the actual book has much more in it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-saunders/10-myths-about-muslims-in_b_1864589.html

Finally, just from the title, I find the book suspicious. The idea of a clash of civilizations is one that seems to oversimplify things for a catchy headline. As someone has already mentioned, the middle east is hardly one unified civilization, and traveling through different countries, like Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, etc., you get an understanding that things come in shades of grey.

Had to laugh when I saw this because I remembered Stereogatari's comment about smartly dressed clean shaven Pakistanis and there they are beating and burning effigies and generally being just as intolerant as the bearded crazies.

Or they could be the people in this thread, protesting against extremism

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=973892

 

[archnemesis]

Different Pakistani political, religious and social organizations continue to protest against what they call blasphemous caricatures in the French magazine Charlie Hebdo.

The biggest protest took place Sunday in the eastern city of Lahore, where over 10,000 supporters of the hard-line Jamaat-ud-Dawa organization chanted “Down with Charlie Hebdo” and “Death to blasphemers.”

In Karachi, the main Jamaat-e-Islami party and cricket star turned politician Imran Khan’s Tehrik-e-Insaf party held protest rallies attended by hundreds.

In the north-western city of Peshawar, dozens of Christian protesters held their own anti-Charlie Hebdo protest burning the French flag and demanding the magazine be banned.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...er-blasphemous-caricatures/article6799347.ece

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Is burning flags and other things a national pasttime? Does the fire department not do anything about grown men playing with fire on the streets? lol

 

[Ranger Taffles]

The biggest protest took place Sunday in the eastern city of Lahore, where over 10,000 supporters of the hard-line Jamaat-ud-Dawa organization chanted “Down with Charlie Hebdo” and “Death to blasphemers.”

http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...er-blasphemous-caricatures/article6799347.ece

What? I live in Lahore and this is ridiculously exaggerated. 10,000 ... seriously this is just laughably wrong and nowhere near the actual figures. And as far as I know, these protests have been so insignificant that even local channels have moved to cover different topics. Sure these groups attract attention and I'm not denying that people are protesting, but this has been just extraordinarily exaggerated.

In fact let me point the actual crisis right now: A mass scale of fuel shortage in the country. Now that's what thousands of people here have that to worry about.

 

[Stinkles]

A common problem is local and state governments riling up their populace against the west to distract from their own horrible internal crap. Saudi Arabia does this constantly to distract its citizens from the horrible corruption and inequality built into their system and Pakistan is a fractious mess that does the same thing at a more local scale.

So the ignorant people on the street hate the west and are encouraged to do so by their rulers.

This is going to get worse globally and when oil runs out, shit is going to really hit the fan because the middle east has nothing else to support its population. And they'll blame that on the west too.

Everything is going to go to shit. Our best rational strategy would be to work on energy independence, cut ties with Israel and the middle east and let Islamic problems revert to internal rather than blame shifting externalization.

We created a lot of the mess and we need to be on deck to help fix it, but we can't do anything in an environment built on two faced irrationality.

We have to disconnect the west from any and all Islamic politics and military adventurism and take a Swiss neutral approach. And just doing that would take 50 years even if we tried it.

But the west runs on oil and war and we'll keep fucking it up as a dwindling group of billionaires keeps us entrenched.

Bill Maher is a horrible spokesperson for this but he's right in noting that the average Muslim on the street in many, many countries, defacto blames the west for just about everything. The cultural divide is just too wide.

Watching interviews with French Muslims after the hebdo massacre was depressing.

I personally support the complete freedom of expression hebdo responded with, but you can't argue it wasn't a provocation.

Doesn't matter how wrong the extremists are because they can't be reasoned with, period.
Get used to it.

Problem is we provoke with drawings and they respond with murder.

There's no diplomacy to be found.

 

[Lamel]

Had to laugh when I saw this because I remembered Stereogatari's comment about smartly dressed clean shaven Pakistanis and there they are beating and burning effigies and generally being just as intolerant as the bearded crazies.

Apart from burning the flag (which is stupid), these people didn't seem to be calling for the deaths of blasphemers or anything to that degree of severity.

 

[ComputerMKII]

The Chinese state-run paper Global Times advised “French society” to “stop representing the prophet” on Monday but its ire was principally aimed at less well-known French satirical paper, Fluide Glacial.

Its latest front page shows a European pedalling a cycle-rickshaw carrying a Chinese man and blonde woman through the streets of Paris under the headline “Yellow peril, is it too late already?”

The front page in question:

 

[Khaz]

The front page in question:

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/902652.shtml

What an indecent act. Fluide Glacial may rise to fame overnight if the Chinese government slams the magazine or protests are sparked in China. However, Chinese people just dismiss it lightly. But not everyone in the world can be so good-tempered.

Lol they say we're racists, but that's a nasty jab at muslims here.