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Pakistan clashes over Hebdo cartoon

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Y

Yaphett Kotto

Member
captainnapalm said:
Decided to do a little research based on one of the names in the article.

snip
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Yea pretty much. The war helped shape that region pretty well.

Melkr_ said:
200 protesters is an irrelevant number. Not even worth reporting, if only to push wrong perceptions about Muslims.
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Which is working wonders in this thread.

PhantomHound said:
Where are the counter protesters? Where are the opposition voices in these countries?
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Knowing how Pakistan works, they would probably be accused for supporting these "terrorists." It is best to keep stuff like that to yourself.
 
K

Kenshin001

Member
Melkr_ said:
200 protesters is an irrelevant number. Not even worth reporting, if only to push wrong perceptions about Muslims.
Click to expand...

How about thousands then? They also protested in Lahore and Islamabad.

Thousands of religious party activists turned out across Pakistan on Friday, including followers of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the charitable wing of the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group which masterminded the attacks on Mumbai in 2008.
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http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-religious-parties-set-protest-france-cartoons-074341314.html
 
J

Joni

Member
AcademicSaucer said:
200 protesters gaf, What the actual fuck are the people in this thread talking about. FUCK
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On Thursday, Pakistani politicians passed a motion condemning Charlie Hebdo for publishing the latest cartoon.
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The people protesting are doing so in a country where the politicians already condemned the attacks. They aren't protesting the condemnation, they aren't protesting their religious leaders calling for the heads of the journalists. The people protesting are the ones that go a step further. Imagine the European Union and the Vatican City coming out together with a statement all muslims are worthless. Do you think there would be protests against that statement or would there be protests that the statement isn't harsh enough? Because to me, it looks like the last thing is happening in Pakistan. Europe has Pegida with counter-protests that are bigger than the Pegida ones. Also, as I said before, 200 were involved in the skirmish. There is no information on the actual number of people present at the rally that went away when the police showed up.

To repeat, the government:
On Thursday, Pakistani politicians passed a motion condemning Charlie Hebdo for publishing the latest cartoon.
Click to expand...
 
K

KingFire

Banned
Jindrax said:
"Must be hanged immediately"

Wow. That's not barbaric at all. Nope.
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shee5.png
 
C

cackhyena

Member
Yaphett Kotto said:
Which is working wonders in this thread.
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Not really. You want to get defensive when people think these fucks calling for hanging are in the wrong and say something about it? That's on you. Someone says Bill Maher was right in here and then you generalize. Pot, meet kettle.
 
K

Kezen

Banned
clem84 said:
Remember people, these are NOT Muslims.
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Huh ?

They kind of are, actually. But we are talking about radical, extremists ones.
To be separated from the ones who do not share their views.

There are many ways to interpret and understand Islam.
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
Doc Holliday said:
Nope, keep publishing. What are they gonna do kill everyone? This is how change happens. The church no longer burns witches and heretics thanks to people having the balls to not give in to the bullshit.
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Exactly. I'm pretty sure the catholic church didn't stop tormenting heretics simply because a spark of generosity suddenly appeared.
 
Y

Yaphett Kotto

Member
cackhyena said:
Not really.
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Yes really. People see a banner and immediately start thinking this is the face of the country. It is in this thread.

You want to get defensive when people think these fucks calling for hanging are in the wrong and say something about it? That's on you.
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I can't interpret what you're saying here, but I'm definitely not getting defensive for radical protesters in support of a conservative organization and terrorist group.
 
clem84

clem84

Gold Member
Kezen said:
Huh ?

They kind of are, actually. But we are talking about radical, extremists ones.
To be separated from the ones who do not share their views.

There are many ways to interpret and understand Islam.
Click to expand...

I was being a bit sarcastic. It's usually the first excuse thrown around when these extremists act crazy.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
captainnapalm said:
Decided to do a little research based on one of the names in the article.

Jamaat-e-Islami, the group who organised the protest and presumably created those charming banners, are a social conservative, and Islamist political party. Its objective is to make Pakistan an Islamic state, governed by Sharia law. It was founded in India but moved (?) to Pakistan after Indian independence.

In Pakistan, The party came under severe government repression in 1948, 1953, and 1963. In other words, presumably because the leadership in Pakistan were not in favour of their aims, but later during the early years of the regime of General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, they served as the "regime's ideological and political arm". So suddenly they found a political leader open to supporting them.

Who is General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq? He was the sixth President of Pakistan from 1978 until his death in 1988. Aided by the United States and Saudi Arabia, he systematically coordinated the Afghan mujahideen against the Soviet occupation throughout the 1980s. He rose to power following a coup and the removal of Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto from office.

The United States, notably the Reagan's Administration, was an ardent supporter of Zia's military regime and a close ally of Pakistan's conservative-leaning ruling military establishment. The Reagan administration declared Zia's regime as the "front line" ally of the United States in the fight against the Communism.

Many of Pakistan's political scientists and historians widely suspected that the riots and coup against Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was orchestrated with help of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the United States Government because United States growing fear of Bhutto's socialist policies which were seen as sympathetic towards the Soviet Union.

Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark widely suspected the United States' involvement in bringing down the Bhutto's government, and publicly accused the United States' Government after attending the trial.

So now we have a bit of an insight as to how a fringe, far-right fundamentalist political party was able to gain a foothold in Pakistan.

Quite a web, eh? Politics, intrigue, double dealing, coups, CIA, Reagan.

But of course it's only about religion. A lot of posters here have it figured out.
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This is why I come to neogaf for news.
 
O

Opiate

Member
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Worst act of terror? What an ignorant and dangerous group of people. Not all Muslims agree with them obviously/thankfully.

Too bad we can't have a discussion on Abrahamic religion in general being distasteful.
 
S

Siegcram

Member
Yaphett Kotto said:
What does that have to do with the majority of citizens, though? GOP says stupid shit all the time here, but the US slowly drives to the left by the year.
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I've never said anything about the entire Pakistani population.

But to paint a rally called for and supported by a significant portion of the country's politicians as the doing of 200 knuckleheads is equally disingenuous.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
Yaphett Kotto said:
Yes really. People see a banner and immediately start thinking this is the face of the country. It is in this thread.



I can't interpret what you're saying here, but I'm definitely not getting defensive for radical protesters in support of a conservative organization and terrorist group.
Click to expand...
I'm saying its a defensive position to put some mark of ignorance on people in this thread calling out these pricks. Defensive for the rest of Islam. It doesn't need to be the case. You're gonna have people who ignorantly lump more than they should in with these protestors. It doesn't mean everyone in here thinks that way.

I'm just getting to the point where ultra liberal, knee-jerk reaction to this shit is getting as repugnant as the goofs lumping all Muslims in with the crazies who want death to offenders of Mohammed. I think it's driving me crazy!
 
mekes

mekes

Member
Lone Wolf said:
Not really. Most historians say he existed
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Historians closer to his time? I can think of only one, Josephus, but his details do not line up at all with the gospels, but the gospels don't even line up themselves in so many ways. Christian scholars will not deny that Josephus writings are counterfeit, as it is known. There are no known accounts from historians of that era to suggest that Jesus existed, but yet, accounts for so much else.
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
These so called religious people are fake. First they create physical chaos over images which can be condemned by the pen or verbally which many do and then they (these clerics)do this to my sect http://nation.com.pk/blogs/02-Jan-2015/blaming-the-other Every Pakistani citizen has to give their religion. When I used to fill my passport application for Pakistan if I chose muslim, on every Passport application this is what I have to fill out

Form.png
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Which I refuse to and have to chose Ahmadiyya as religion rather than Muslim (this was initiated in 1974)

hypocrites
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
I don't understand how a religion can be so angry over a drawing...and why they feel the need to have to go to war over it.
 
A

Ashes

Banned
Opiate said:
This is apparently incorrect, especially (or perhaps particularly) in Pakistan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-breed-extremism-in-Pakistan-study-finds.html

There are still lots of confounding variables, but poverty level does not seem to be it. This doesn't control for education level or lots of other significant concerns.
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I think that study was looking for a causal relation. There are non-linear relationships between poverty and terrorism. I shall look it up for you; but before that there is something to be said about the economics of the 'terrorist group', in how some provide social services, running a kind of '“radical altruists” club. And as such the US and UK would do well to compete on these fronts. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/business/07shelf.html?_r=1

edit: non-linear link: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles.php?doi=10.1257/aer.102.3.267
 
Y

Yaphett Kotto

Member
Siegcram said:
I've never said anything about the entire Pakistani population.

But to paint a rally called for and supported by a significant portion of the country's politicians as the doing of 200 knuckleheads is equally disingenuous.
Click to expand...

I was trying to say that the protesters and the political parties aren't the face of the people there, but I did go back to read a few other sources on what happened in other regions and yes, it is more than 200, but these guys are in support of groups whose views are in line with the right viewing government.

cackhyena said:
I'm saying its a defensive position to put some mark of ignorance on people in this thread calling out these pricks. Defensive for the rest of Islam. It doesn't need to be the case. You're gonna have people who ignorantly lump more than they should in with these protestors. It doesn't mean everyone in here thinks that way.

I'm just getting to the point where ultra liberal, knee-jerk reaction to this shit is getting as repugnant as the goofs lumping all Muslims in with the crazies who want death to offenders of Mohammed. I think it's driving me crazy!
Click to expand...

I was mainly calling out the ones who were hopping in with misinformed, inflammatory posts like these people are the face of the country. I would have quoted, but it was across too many pages. The initial post you quoted shouldn't have been said though, in hindsight.

And yes, the knee jerk comments are bothersome when it comes off as people trying to be clever instead of having a serious discussion.
 
ebullientprism

ebullientprism

Member
SuOhXgG.jpg


I cant get over that banner lol.

Its not home made. Someone paid for it. They went to a graphic designer, had them select a font and shit. Probably went over the text a few times. Then went to a printer and had it printed out.

Why? Just write something on a big piece of paper. lol.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Love how they got the flag backwards.

Maybe they should take up cartooning? Get that frustration out using a more constructive format.

I was mainly calling out the ones who were hopping in with misinformed, inflammatory posts like these people are the face of the country. I would have quoted, but it was across too many pages. The initial post you quoted shouldn't have been said though, in hindsight.
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People such as those killers from a couple weeks ago are the ones really a huge part of this, though. Generalizations start to arise in the face of fear and anger. Posting something vaguely racist on a message board is a hell of a lot better than killing people or burning flags in the street, though, not that any of those things are valid actions.

I don't understand how a religion can be so angry over a drawing...and why they feel the need to have to go to war over it.
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It's not something that can be understood with logic, I'm afraid.
 
L

le.phat

Member
Aquamarine said:
it was. i've never been a fan of islam, and i legitimately think muhammad is a dead cult leader + warlord.

i know the people of pakistan suffer an awful lot of problems, i know these are just a bunch of radicals born into a horrible situation, and i know there are loads of people in pakistan who don't think that way or support these radicals.

but i'm still not a fan of islam or their "prophet."
Click to expand...

Less number crunching, more education on history.
 
K

Kenshin001

Member
RustyNails said:
This is why I come to neogaf for news.
Click to expand...

I did some research too. In the 1980s under General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, Section 295C of the penal code was introduced which established the death penalty for "use of derogatory remarks in respect of the Holy Prophet". But this actually links back to 1929 before the foundation of Pakistan when a Hindu publisher by the name of Rajpal put out a book vilifying Mohammed, sending thousands of Muslims into a violent rage.

One of these Muslims was a man named Ilm Din from Lahore. When Rajpal arrived at the airport he stabbed the publisher to death to defend the honour of the Prophet. Ilm Din was arrested and the case went to court. Despite his defence lawyer pleading the killer acted out of extreme provocation, he was convicted and hung and became a martyr and was venerated. After this the British implemented laws that made blasphemy impermissible so that no more crazies would kill people.

The lawyer who defended the murderer Ilm Din was none other than the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.
 
C

Coins

Banned
Acinixys said:
As much as i understand the motives of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonsits, they really are just fanning the flames

Sure youre entitled to freedom of speech, but at the expense of your own life? Your families life? Your colleagues lives?

Seems pretty silly. They groups they are pissing off arent the kind to just rally arnd protest

They can, will and have instigated brutal attacks
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Keep attacking. Give us a good target for a drone, please.
 
T

Truant

Member
Do these people know they're the laughing stock of the entire world? I mean, even after they killed people we still find them hilarious.

The frustration they must feel. I love it.
 
C

Coins

Banned
Someone needs to photoshop Reggies face on all of them and change the text to "the Nintendo non-decision makers must be fired immediately" and give it to the gaming side.
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
Kenshin001 said:
I did some research too. In the 1980s under General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, Section 295C of the penal code was introduced which established the death penalty for "use of derogatory remarks in respect of the Holy Prophet". But this actually links back to 1929 before the foundation of Pakistan when a Hindu publisher by the name of Rajpal put out a book vilifying Mohammed, sending thousands of Muslims into a violent rage.

One of these Muslims was a man named Ilm Din from Lahore. When Rajpal arrived at the airport he stabbed the publisher to death to defend the honour of the Prophet. Ilm Din was arrested and the case went to court. Despite his defence lawyer pleading the killer acted out of extreme provocation, he was convicted and hung and became a martyr and was venerated. After this the British implemented laws that made blasphemy impermissible so that no more crazies would kill people.

The lawyer who defended the murderer Ilm Din was none other than the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.
Click to expand...
a furthering history. this law by Zia Ul Haq was created so Ahmadiyya community cannot call its sect founder a Prophet and so that we don't print copies of Quran in our printing presses officially

http://www.hrw.org/news/2010/06/01/pakistan-massacre-minority-ahmadis

Pakistan’s “Blasphemy Law,” as section 295-C of the Penal Code is known, makes the death penalty mandatory for blasphemy. Under this law, the Ahmadiyya belief in the prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is considered blasphemous insofar as it “defiles the name of Prophet Muhammad.” In 2009, at least 50 Ahmadis were charged under various provisions of the blasphemy law across Pakistan. Many of these individuals remain imprisoned.
Click to expand...

And in recent years it has extended to other religions such as Christians and even other sects like Shia.

Remove the law and you remove the power of the clerics half way.
 
P

PopeReal

Member
Bunch of fucking idiots. Yes let's kill people over drawings. Must be very scared little men who wish violence over a pen.
 
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