• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Path of Exile |OT| Loot 3.0

Orgun

Member
dffb563de7afb90a2e3bbef6e1d13ed2.png
 
So my first time playing a melee based character and I'm going with Blade Flurry, what is the stat priority for weapons? Do I need to look at the actual damage range of the weapon or just the prefix/affixes?

Also, is there one weapon type that's better than the rest? Right now I'm just swapping weapons whenever I find one and comparing to see the highest DPS number using the in game DPS in my profile as reference.
 

Zynx

Member
That's a pretty complicated question to answer.

The simplest (but incomplete) answer is the best weapon DPS. The average damage (low end damage + high end dmg/2) of the weapon multiplied by its attack speed.

But the big question is to consider what nodes you are taking on your passive tree. A strong build will usually focus on passives for a single weapon type only, for example, if you were doing dagger Blade Flurry (selecting the dagger-specific nodes on the passive tree), you would use the best dagger you could find even if you found a claw with higher dps.

Specializing in a weapon on the passive tree is pretty important because most of the weapon-specific nodes are stronger than the general melee nodes.

Finally, a more complete answer would involve considering whether you're focusing on physical damage or elemental damage (again, your passive tree would be different depending on which you choose to pursue). Faster weapon attack speed allows greater benefits from added attack damage on other gear. And weapon base critical strike chance will be important if you're doing a crit build.

e:
Hmm, maybe I can use my own build as an example. I don't know how in depth of an answer you want but hopefully this is useful to you. I'm going physical dagger blade flurry with crit, and my passive tree looks like this right now:

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive...LXfIOSBGWkBtwVpoT29R_xpMnbAsi9G0Zl_RSUz1fl5U=

(This is a very softcore tree - most players would advise picking up more life nodes.) The starting area, I take physical damage nodes, while pathing to the the horseshoe-like cluster of nodes to the right, and the semi-circle cluster are physical dagger nodes. So in my case, I look for the best physical dps daggers I can equip at my level.

If you aren't getting good drops or aren't buying from poe.trade (it's a community shop indexer which lists items other players are offering to sell), there are "vendor recipes" which can produce a decent weapon for you. You go to a vendor in town, and open the sell item window, placing a specific combination of items to get a specific item in return.

You can see them here:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Vendor_recipe

But specifically for weapons, there useful recipe is "Weapon with (40 to 69%) Increased Physical Damage". Take a rustic sash (belt) that you find. If it's white, use an "orb of transmutation" to make it magic (blue), take it with a blacksmith's whetstone, along with the best dagger "base" you can find, and sell all three items to a vendor to get back a weapon with a boost to physical damage.

Select the dagger lowest on the list of daggers that you can equip. The lower down you go, the stronger they are, but the level and stat requirements go up.

List of daggers:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Dagger

Hope at least some of that was helpful to you.
 
That's a pretty complicated question to answer.

The simplest (but incomplete) answer is the best weapon DPS. The average damage (low end damage + high end dmg/2) of the weapon multiplied by its attack speed.

But the big question is to consider what nodes you are taking on your passive tree. A strong build will usually focus on passives for a single weapon type only, for example, if you were doing dagger Blade Flurry (selecting the dagger-specific nodes on the passive tree), you would use the best dagger you could find even if you found a claw with higher dps.

Specializing in a weapon on the passive tree is pretty important because most of the weapon-specific nodes are stronger than the general melee nodes.

Finally, a more complete answer would involve considering whether you're focusing on physical damage or elemental damage (again, your passive tree would be different depending on which you choose to pursue). Faster weapon attack speed allows greater benefits from added attack damage on other gear. And weapon base critical strike chance will be important if you're doing a crit build.

e:
Hmm, maybe I can use my own build as an example. I don't know how in depth of an answer you want but hopefully this is useful to you. I'm going physical dagger blade flurry with crit, and my passive tree looks like this right now:

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive...LXfIOSBGWkBtwVpoT29R_xpMnbAsi9G0Zl_RSUz1fl5U=

(This is a very softcore tree - most players would advise picking up more life nodes.) The starting area, I take physical damage nodes, while pathing to the the horseshoe-like cluster of nodes to the right, and the semi-circle cluster are physical dagger nodes. So in my case, I look for the best physical dps daggers I can equip at my level.

If you aren't getting good drops or aren't buying from poe.trade (it's a community shop indexer which lists items other players are offering to sell), there are "vendor recipes" which can produce a decent weapon for you. You go to a vendor in town, and open the sell item window, placing a specific combination of items to get a specific item in return.

You can see them here:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Vendor_recipe

But specifically for weapons, there useful recipe is "Weapon with (40 to 69%) Increased Physical Damage". Take a rustic sash (belt) that you find. If it's white, use an "orb of transmutation" to make it magic (blue), take it with a blacksmith's whetstone, along with the best dagger "base" you can find, and sell all three items to a vendor to get back a weapon with a boost to physical damage.

Select the dagger lowest on the list of daggers that you can equip. The lower down you go, the stronger they are, but the level and stat requirements go up.

List of daggers:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Dagger

Hope at least some of that was helpful to you.

Thank you very much, that was a very helpful post (especially the part about weapon nodes deciding your build).

I guess I'm just unsure of what would be considered a weapon upgrade. I'm following the Blade Flurry guide for Assassin in the PoE forum (that uses claws). Sometimes I'll find something with 100%+ physical damage increase or +1 to socketed gems and think it's an upgrade, but when I equip it my in game DPS actually drops. I'm only level 40 at the moment and things die so fast I can't tell what weapons are better. I suppose it doesn't really matter but I just hope by 70+ I will have figured this stuff out haha.

I used poe trade a lot last league but I played mostly spellcaster so I usually only looked at spell damage/crit/cast speed on wands. Guess it's going to be different for a physical build.
 

Mulgrok

Member
Thank you very much, that was a very helpful post (especially the part about weapon nodes deciding your build).

I guess I'm just unsure of what would be considered a weapon upgrade. I'm following the Blade Flurry guide for Assassin in the PoE forum (that uses claws). Sometimes I'll find something with 100%+ physical damage increase or +1 to socketed gems and think it's an upgrade, but when I equip it my in game DPS actually drops. I'm only level 40 at the moment and things die so fast I can't tell what weapons are better. I suppose it doesn't really matter but I just hope by 70+ I will have figured this stuff out haha.

I used poe trade a lot last league but I played mostly spellcaster so I usually only looked at spell damage/crit/cast speed on wands. Guess it's going to be different for a physical build.

+gem skill affix is only useful if you are focusing on skill gems that deal damage independent of weapon stats. Like spells or added chaos damage.
 

Zynx

Member
Okay, I assume you're doing physical damage claws.

Each claw has a "item base", then it has "affixes" or "modifiers" which add additional bonuses either to the claw or to your overall character.

You can see the list of claws (item bases) here:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Claws

The possible modifiers or affixes that appear on claws are listed here:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/List_of_claw_modifiers

The item base will define the claw's baseline power: base attack speed, base critical strike, and a range of physical damage. In general, the lower down on the list you go, the stronger they are.
In your case, "Thresher Claw" or "Gouger" would be nice for you if you're level 40, since you won't be able to equip the better claws that require a higher character level.

Let's say you have a "Gouger". It has a physical damage range of 13-46, and a base attack speed of 1.5 (And base crit of 6.3% too which matters but I won't be covering in this post.)

So by itself, with no modifiers, a white gouger would have (13 + 46)/2 * 1.5 = 44.25 base physical dps. (Average damage x Attack Speed.)

Of the modifiers that can possibly appear on the claw, only a few are important for a physical damage claw build.
#1: "adds x to y physical damage"
#2: "(x)% increased physical damage"
#3: "(x-y)% increased attack speed"
(Stuff like accuracy or life leech is helpful, but also appear on gear other than weapons, so it's generally preferred to obtain such modifiers on other gear if you need it.)

#1: Let's say your claw says "adds 5 to 7 physical damage"
This adds to the gouger's physical damage range of 13-46, changing it to 18-53.
So a weapon with this modifier would have (18 + 53)/2 * 1.5 = 53.25 base physical dps, a 20% increase compared to the basic gouger which is pretty nice.

#2: Suppose the claw also has "40% increased physical damage"
This is a multiplier to the physical damage rnage of 18 to 53, changing it to 18*1.4 =25.2 to 53*1.4 = 74.2. Thanks to the rules of algebra, you can factor out the 1.4 to avoid extra multiplication.
So a gouger with BOTH the above modifiers would have (18 + 53)/2 * 1.5 * 1.4 = 74.55 base dps.

#3: Suppose the claw has "10% increased attack speed" as well. This changes the attack speed from 1.5 to 1.65, so a claw with all 3 modifiers would have (18 + 53)/2 * 1.65 * 1.4 = 82 base physical dps, almost double as strong as the original plain gouger.

However, if you had the same mods on a weaker claw "base item", say, a "Cat's Paw",
you would have (15+26)/2 * 1.76 * 1.4 = 50.512 base dps, a much smaller result.

So the power of a claw depends on both its base and its modifiers. If you have a "100% increased physical damage" on a really weak base it won't be as good as weaker modifiers on a much better base. +1 socketed gems generally isn't important for the damage of weapon builds because it's an incredibly small boost in power compared to many other factors.

I do suggest trying out the vendor recipe I mentioned in my previous post if your current weapon(s) aren't close to the best base you can currently use - that is, if you aren't using a thresher claw/gouger, try to find one of those and apply the vendor recipe to the item and see if it's any better than what you currently have. It'll give you an okay modifier on the best base you can use at the moment.

For crit, there are two more useful modifiers:
(x-y)% increased critical strike chance. (important)
(x-y)% to global critical strike modifier. (less important)

When mousing over a claw, PoE actually does most of the calculations for you.
For example, I found this screenshot with an image search engine to use an example (it's actually an insanely strong claw).
CexW8L2.jpg


The third line from the top "Physical damage 111-248" already takes into account the Imperial claw's base damage, the "adds 19-33 physical damage" modifier and the "144% increased physical damage" modifier.

While the 5th line from the top "Attacks per second: 1.65" already takes into account the imperial claw's base attack speed and the "10% increased attack speed" modifier.

So all you need to do to figure out the weapon's base physical dps is (111 + 248)/2 * 1.65 = 296 dps, which is extremely high. It's unlikely you'll find something this good, but I just needed a screenshot to show you how to save a few steps in calculating the weapon base dps.

Generally, you can eyeball the numbers between two claws you want to compare without actually having to do the calculation. If you hold ALT (or CTRL? I forget) while mousing over a claw in your stash or inventory, it'll automatically show the stats of that claw as well as the claw(s) you have equipped side by side for easier comparison.

On poe.trade, the relevant column when you search for claws is "pDPS". "DPS" also includes elemental damage, and if your build doesn't have much in terms of elemental damage nodes on your passive tree, it won't really help much.

Also, for a weapon you want to use a long time, you should apply blacksmith whetstones to it to add "quality", which goes up to 20%. Quality functions exactly like "x% increased physical damage" and stacks with it.
 
I've been wondering for a while now how DPS on weapons are calculated in PoE and thanks to your clear explanation I understand it now.

So basically, to compare weapon DPS I just take the base physical damage numbers, average them and then multiply by the attacks per second number. All the other extra stats on the weapon are just bonuses? How is the in-game DPS for Blade Flurry under Offence calculated then?

For poe.trade, the pDPS number is the average of the physical damage numbers right? Is it multiplied by attacks per second?

Thanks again for all this info, it has been super helpful!
 

squidyj

Member
I've been wondering for a while now how DPS on weapons are calculated in PoE and thanks to your clear explanation I understand it now.

So basically, to compare weapon DPS I just take the base physical damage numbers, average them and then multiply by the attacks per second number. All the other extra stats on the weapon are just bonuses? How is the in-game DPS for Blade Flurry under Offence calculated then?

For poe.trade, the pDPS number is the average of the physical damage numbers right? Is it multiplied by attacks per second?

Thanks again for all this info, it has been super helpful!

honestly the best answer is to use a tool, i don't know if the AHK script still works or where to find it but there's sites online, you can ctrl+c while mousing over an item to grab it's stats and ctrl+v on one of these sites and they'll tell you those sorts of things.


for calculating yourself remember that quality bonus adds with local %mods so if you have 120% increased physical damage and 20% quality you actually have 140% increased physical damage.
 

Kadin

Member
honestly the best answer is to use a tool, i don't know if the AHK script still works or where to find it but there's sites online, you can ctrl+c while mousing over an item to grab it's stats and ctrl+v on one of these sites and they'll tell you those sorts of things.


for calculating yourself remember that quality bonus adds with local %mods so if you have 120% increased physical damage and 20% quality you actually have 140% increased physical damage.
I use the item info script which I believe you're referring to. It's very, very helpful and can be found here.
*great info snipped*
I just wanted to say that this was one hell of a good post.
 

Zynx

Member
I've been wondering for a while now how DPS on weapons are calculated in PoE and thanks to your clear explanation I understand it now.

So basically, to compare weapon DPS I just take the base physical damage numbers, average them and then multiply by the attacks per second number. All the other extra stats on the weapon are just bonuses? How is the in-game DPS for Blade Flurry under Offence calculated then?

For poe.trade, the pDPS number is the average of the physical damage numbers right? Is it multiplied by attacks per second?

Thanks again for all this info, it has been super helpful!

The other stats on your weapon also have their effects, but in most cases are much less significant than the ones I mentioned.

In-game DPS for Blade Flurry is...another can of worms but I don't have time to type a long post right now. The short version is that it's also affected by your passive tree node and also by your skill gems - the ones in sockets that are linked to your blade flurry gem. For example, all those "increased physical damage with claws" or "Increased attack speed" nodes and such that you have taken on your skill tree, they all contribute. And I'm guessing the guide recommends certain support gems to link with your blade flurry, such as "Melee physical damage support". These all contribute as well, in a very significant manner. It's the combination of gear, your character's passive skill tree, and skill gem selection that makes PoE so complex and interesting.

poe.trade's pDPS already factors everything into it, you don't need to multiply it with another number. The tools the other posters mentioned are worth trying, although I don't use them myself.

BTW, do we have a lot of discord users in this thread? It might be nice to set up a server for us to chat and maybe find groups, since we're not all in the same guild.
 
I'd be down for a discord server for us. I just periodically check this thread to see what everyone is up to.

Still figuring out if I want to keep leveling my current build. Didn't get much playing time due to busy weekend.

Leveling up as a BF shadow but with so many other people doing the same thing I know prices are going to suck. Might put it on hold and go Ancestral Warchief dual wield with claws or something.
 

Dongs Macabre

aka Daedalos42
I just started playing this and went with an archer Shadow build from the forums for Breach League.

Is Act 4 supposed to be crazy difficult? I finished it after dying a lot to the bosses and just got to Cruel, but it's like the difficulty ramps up exponentially once you hit Kaom's Dream.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
They never properly tuned Act 4. Its harder than Act 2 of tthe next difficulty.
 

KKRT00

Member
Died yesterday on Ascendency trial in Crematorium Cruel with 66 lvl character.
It was totally my fault and it was stupid and totally deserved it ;p

Already rerolled :p


Ps. Blade Vortex is awesome :)
 
honestly the best answer is to use a tool, i don't know if the AHK script still works or where to find it but there's sites online, you can ctrl+c while mousing over an item to grab it's stats and ctrl+v on one of these sites and they'll tell you those sorts of things.

for calculating yourself remember that quality bonus adds with local %mods so if you have 120% increased physical damage and 20% quality you actually have 140% increased physical damage.

I use the item info script which I believe you're referring to. It's very, very helpful and can be found here.

I just wanted to say that this was one hell of a good post.

Thanks, will check out the script.

The other stats on your weapon also have their effects, but in most cases are much less significant than the ones I mentioned.

In-game DPS for Blade Flurry is...another can of worms but I don't have time to type a long post right now. The short version is that it's also affected by your passive tree node and also by your skill gems - the ones in sockets that are linked to your blade flurry gem. For example, all those "increased physical damage with claws" or "Increased attack speed" nodes and such that you have taken on your skill tree, they all contribute. And I'm guessing the guide recommends certain support gems to link with your blade flurry, such as "Melee physical damage support". These all contribute as well, in a very significant manner. It's the combination of gear, your character's passive skill tree, and skill gem selection that makes PoE so complex and interesting.

poe.trade's pDPS already factors everything into it, you don't need to multiply it with another number. The tools the other posters mentioned are worth trying, although I don't use them myself.

BTW, do we have a lot of discord users in this thread? It might be nice to set up a server for us to chat and maybe find groups, since we're not all in the same guild.

haha ok thanks for the clarification, I've figured out by now that PoE is super beginner unfriendly, but it's also super addicting!
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Thanks, will check out the script.



haha ok thanks for the clarification, I've figured out by now that PoE is super beginner unfriendly, but it's also super addicting!

It's not so bad if you follow a net-build by someone who knows what they're doing, since they also tell you what skill gems/equipment mods to go for. Trying to plan out your own ungimped build as a newbie isn't going to get you very far.
 
Those new stash tabs really wrecked the servers or something. Things have been wonky for me all day and now they've been down with major issues. Hopefully this doesn't turn into a larger issue.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Is there any decent primer on the Atlas? I've been out since it was introduced so I want to know what I'm headed into as I near 70.
 
I got lucky and got an Exalted Orb drop today. Traded it for a ton of Chaos Orbs and bought myself a Death's Opus for my archer.

I got one a couple days ago as well. I've had crap drops this league otherwise. I ended up rerolling to a cheaper character since blade flurry gear has skyrocketed to ridiculous amounts.

Especially the scourge claw something that was being sold for 1 chaos last league being sold for 8 exalts right now is ridiculous. Even if you wanted to run a necro minion build with it you are screwed.
 
I'm quite new to this game. After 20 hours and three different characters I've finally settled on a duelist earthquake build. Level 38 now and I'm currently face rolling act 4 normal. Need to get my resistances up though, starting to lose health quite a bit faster.

Anyone got any tips for me as I start to transition into mid and late game?

Right now I'm trying to get myself at least one 5 link for my DPS skill.
 
Is there a vendor involving breach rings? I dropped six in the guild stash, just because I was getter by tons of them and they're all gone, so it feels like someone knows something I don't. 🤔
 

Rufus

Member
I don't think so, considering you can simulate it by playing windowed and squishing it horizontally. The UI will scale appropriately (you should only see the XP bar stretch) and you'll get to see any threat from the side coming much earlier. With breaches being so dangerous, I actually considered doing this.
 
Playing hard core breach league. Just got to cruel: normal Kaom, Daresso, Malachai & labyrinth were all nerve-wracking even though I never went below 1/3rd of my hp.

Is POE gaf guild still active? "Sinimaali" would like an invite, ~40+ necromancer. Mostly for chat company but I can help with random HC stuff.

Anyone got any tips for me as I start to transition into mid and late game?

HP is king. HP is all. If your build doesn't have enough survivability to survive w/e hits bosses throw at you then the build is unusable. You can dodge the hits, but sooner or later you'll get hit and if you can't take the hit, all the DPS in the world doesn't help you.

I use HP as a combination word for life, ES, life leeching and all other stuff that lets you survive hits with big numbers.

In last league my softcore necromancer hit a wall around T7-9 or so maps because I started to meet bosses that could annihilate me before I could even get them on the same screen as my character.
 
Ugh, Primordial Might jewels are 3ex each and I need 2 for my build :(

I have been grinding but its not that fun when my build sucks right now.

Screw it, going to reroll pizzablast
 

KKRT00

Member
Playing hard core breach league. Just got to cruel: normal Kaom, Daresso, Malachai & labyrinth were all nerve-wracking even though I never went below 1/3rd of my hp.

Is POE gaf guild still active? "Sinimaali" would like an invite, ~40+ necromancer. Mostly for chat company but I can help with random HC stuff.
Not too active, but i can invite you.

I can also help you slightly on HC (with wp etc), because i'm playing on it in late EU time :)
 
"Can summon up to 20 raging spirits at a time" - wait what, it was 50 last time I played --> read patch notes.

OK I guess. I can replace the cast speed gem with something else!

Not too active, but i can invite you.

I can also help you slightly on HC (with wp etc), because i'm playing on it in late EU time :)

Thanks!
 
Playing hard core breach league. Just got to cruel: normal Kaom, Daresso, Malachai & labyrinth were all nerve-wracking even though I never went below 1/3rd of my hp.

Is POE gaf guild still active? "Sinimaali" would like an invite, ~40+ necromancer. Mostly for chat company but I can help with random HC stuff.



HP is king. HP is all. If your build doesn't have enough survivability to survive w/e hits bosses throw at you then the build is unusable. You can dodge the hits, but sooner or later you'll get hit and if you can't take the hit, all the DPS in the world doesn't help you.

I use HP as a combination word for life, ES, life leeching and all other stuff that lets you survive hits with big numbers.

In last league my softcore necromancer hit a wall around T7-9 or so maps because I started to meet bosses that could annihilate me before I could even get them on the same screen as my character.

That's good to know. I've been diligent about picking up HP nodes along the way thus far. Starting to get to that point where I don't just faceroll everything and are starting to encounter some challenging breaches/mobs.
 

Orgun

Member
Think i've kinda hit a wall with my Blade Flurry build, i'm on cruel (lvl 66) and getting one shotted by Koam and the labyrinth boss.

I THINK I need to start prioritising guild that has the most energy shield and stop worry about other stuff on the gear.
 
Think i've kinda hit a wall with my Blade Flurry build, i'm on cruel (lvl 66) and getting one shotted by Koam and the labyrinth boss.

I THINK I need to start prioritising guild that has the most energy shield and stop worry about other stuff on the gear.

Cruel at level66? You should already be done with and approaching maps by that point. Did you try to level as a CI?

What does you tree/gear look like right now?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
What's your in-game HP and other defensive stats?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Okay well I found your main problem: Uncapped resistance

Cap it, or at least get it within the 60s. Resistance is so important in late cruel and merciless. Your Bismuth flask is just not enough. Start using http://poe.trade/ to help you fill out that gear. You can easily get 1c gear to replace what you have now.

As for Izaro, that fight's a matter of being patient and respecting mechanics. If you just run up to him and start spamming Flurry thinking you'll be able to kill him before he kills you, you're going to have a bad time. Run in circles. Run a movement option like Whirling Blades/Flame Dash/Leap Slam. Attack outside his melee range. Maybe run a Granite or Stibnite flask in place of the Bismuth once you get your resistance up.
 
Backing off of what he said. Resistances being capped is super important especially in merciless.

I would go on poe.trade and see what you can find to upgrade. By this time in league decent rares that will help you are 1 alc-1 chaos and should get you to a more comfortable position.

If you are in the guild ask anyone of us for help if we are on and we will be sure to help you out with anyhthng you might need.
 

Orgun

Member
Ok cool, thank you both. I'll take a look at poe.trade and just run some search for items with a max price.

Nah im not in the guild, how would I go about joining?
 
Top Bottom