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Irobot82
Member
roughly yes, but you'd always get more perf on a console.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
if the crypto boom never happened those pieces of shit would be replaced by the 3060 and 3060ti
kyliethicc
Member
you meant Nvidia and AMD
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Top 2 =/= average.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Yeah, I’d be curious as to what the average or top GPUs are for people with Steam libraries in the hundreds or thousands.
Probably not a 1060.
Kuranghi
Gold Member
I reckon 1080 or 2080.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They've both already received the message.
Consoles are still selling despite both Jimbo and Phil increasing prices. The PC market has rejected higher prices and its only a matter of time the console market does the same. At some point, you run out of people willing to pay these ridiculous prices for gaming toys.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No wonder we don't get the mind-blowing games on PC nowadays then. Wow!
Irobot82
Member
I would also note, these steam survey's also probably aren't the most accurate. Technically every user in a PC cafe has the chance to report on a survey, thus repeating the number of entries for the same config.
A.Romero
Member
At least I'm speaking for myself: I'm running a 3070 right now and have no intention of upgrading because it doesn't seem current games really need it.
Maybe the 5000 series...
Just had a look at the Steam Hardware survey.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
The top 10 graphics cards make up for more than 40% of total. Among those, only 2 are below an xbox series S which is the bare minimum for next gen GPU wise: GTX 1050ti and GTX 1650. All the rest either, match next gen consoles, match the series S or are over next gen console specs. 65% of PC gamers have GPUs with 6 GB VRAM or more.
60% of PC gamers have CPUs with 6 cores or more. 70% of PC gamers have 16 GB RAM or more.
If anything, this shows that PC gamers for the most part have been ready for next gen for at least 3 to 4 years. Also they don't have much reason to upgrade if they want to game at console quality settings and FPS at least for a while.
There's a batch of PC gamers that will have to upgrade to play next gen games though. But how about a reason to upgrade? How many must have next gen only games have been released, and in particular games that would be interesting for a PC gamer? Not many from what I am seeing. None of the first batch of next gen games available on PC could be classified as a killer app (Ghostwhire Tokyo, The Medium, Forspoken, Returnal and more)
I think Starfield should be the game that will make PC gamers upgrade. Maybe something like Demons Souls on PC, although if its more inline with the PC port of Returnal the game should be able to run in old PCs as well as long as they have enough RAM.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
The top 10 graphics cards make up for more than 40% of total. Among those, only 2 are below an xbox series S which is the bare minimum for next gen GPU wise: GTX 1050ti and GTX 1650. All the rest either, match next gen consoles, match the series S or are over next gen console specs. 65% of PC gamers have GPUs with 6 GB VRAM or more.
60% of PC gamers have CPUs with 6 cores or more. 70% of PC gamers have 16 GB RAM or more.
If anything, this shows that PC gamers for the most part have been ready for next gen for at least 3 to 4 years. Also they don't have much reason to upgrade if they want to game at console quality settings and FPS at least for a while.
There's a batch of PC gamers that will have to upgrade to play next gen games though. But how about a reason to upgrade? How many must have next gen only games have been released, and in particular games that would be interesting for a PC gamer? Not many from what I am seeing. None of the first batch of next gen games available on PC could be classified as a killer app (Ghostwhire Tokyo, The Medium, Forspoken, Returnal and more)
I think Starfield should be the game that will make PC gamers upgrade. Maybe something like Demons Souls on PC, although if its more inline with the PC port of Returnal the game should be able to run in old PCs as well as long as they have enough RAM.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yep, it's crazy that we got to a point where a $900 - $1000 GPU is "mid-tier". Basically, WTF. No wonder sales are falling.
At the same time you can pick up PS5 or XSX for almost half the price and that will be the entire console.
Chiggs
Gold Member
The PC gaming market is truly good and fucked. I know a lot of people want to deny it, but the writing is on the wall for power-hungry X86 processors and GPUs.
The future is ARM...even if you can't see it.
By the way, I own a 7950X and an RTX 4090, so don't tell me I'm some pissant console peasant with an axe to grind.
The future is ARM...even if you can't see it.
By the way, I own a 7950X and an RTX 4090, so don't tell me I'm some pissant console peasant with an axe to grind.
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MikeM
Member
I’m a console peasant. With a 7900xt PC lol
In saying that, there are low powered silicon options that provide good performance. Its the high end that is getting absurd on both the cpu and gpu side.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
PC OEMs are their own worst enemies. literally pricing their own market out of relevance.
A certain fucker actually said consumers have to readjust expectations with regard to pricing. That was the day I decided I would never buy another Nvidia product again.
A certain fucker actually said consumers have to readjust expectations with regard to pricing. That was the day I decided I would never buy another Nvidia product again.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Hate to break it to you, but it doesn't work that way.
You mean the Steam HW survey or the reasons to upgrade?
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I mean let's be real if they sold the 4090 for $€500 it'd be sold out faster than a Taylor Swift concert.
It seems to have happened, the 1650 and 1060 on steam have mobile and desktop numbers rolled into 1 number where the 3060 has 2 entries for desktop and mobile. Combing the 3060 numbers makes it the most popular gpu on steam.
supernova8
Banned
Where are GPU shipments compared to before the pandemic and crypto boom, though? If still above then I see no reason why (especially considering inflation) GPU prices will go down that much.
Besides, we (collectively) have demonstrated to uncle Jensen that we're willing to pay crazy prices for his products.
Besides, we (collectively) have demonstrated to uncle Jensen that we're willing to pay crazy prices for his products.
SportsFan581
Member
It never works out that way though. The consoles will be mined for every ounce of potential they have and you'll have games released that require cards on PC that are noticeably more powerful than the console specs.
Look at the old hd7850 (roughly equivalent to a PS4) trying to run God of War well below the original console settings (and at just 720p and lower in parts of the vid):
It ain't pretty.
The 7870 that was a bit more powerful than the PS4 doesn't do too much better.
With that said though, I completely agree with you regarding a lot of PC gamers hanging on to the hardware they have in response to the current prices. It's actually kind of crazy how well the 480/580 8GB and the 1060 6GB hung on as far as passable results. Even today they can probably hang in that at 30fps.
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The last quarter they have dropped below the shipment numbers from before covid, pretty substantially aswell. I'm talking dgpu here no one gives a shit about igpu who wants to play games.
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hinch7
Member
We just need one or two good mid range SKU's nearer to Ampere/RDNA 2 prices and they will fly off shelves.
But AMD/Nvidia seem contempt with low volume, high profit sales.. And people happy buying current cards at silly prices. So here we are..
Wonder how much damage this strategy will do them though in the long run.
But AMD/Nvidia seem contempt with low volume, high profit sales.. And people happy buying current cards at silly prices. So here we are..
Wonder how much damage this strategy will do them though in the long run.
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Talkin Hawkin
Banned
Maybe, just maybe, more people would buy at higher prices if there was software to justify the spend.
Slapping a console port on PC and adding 'bells and whistles' sliders is not worth the extra money. Go back to making games exclusive to high end rigs again and you'll see said popularity of high end rigs skyrocket
Slapping a console port on PC and adding 'bells and whistles' sliders is not worth the extra money. Go back to making games exclusive to high end rigs again and you'll see said popularity of high end rigs skyrocket
supernova8
Banned
Interesting... well I guess if they're selling GPUs for significantly more (ie higher ASP) then they might be willing to forego some volume.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Crypto became a prime market driver, and when it wasn't anymore it was far too late to steer away. It takes years of planning for these cards to come out.
Manufactures will eventually shift back to targeting reasonable prices for.gamers but it won't happen before next gen.
nvidia next financials will be interesting, the other drop in that chart late 18 early 19 was when they released turing and increased prices. If revenue isn't down in gaming the prices are probably here to stay and mining can't be blamed this time.
poodaddy
Member
Not necessarily. Increased retail might have compensated for a drop in shipments, that's true, but inflation has gotten substantially worse as of late and will get worse before it gets better. 35% is bad enough to get investors' attention, and even if increased retail compensated, Nvidia might have to course correct to prevent that 35 from turning into 45 next fiscal year. All things equal, if nothing changes on price and inflation gets worse, and it will, Nvidia's shipments will be even lower in 2023.
Andrenicks
Neo Member
It is not only a matter of (crazy) prices but also of consumption. A lot of people don't want to change power supplies when they change their gpu, and a lot of users have supermarket PCs with crappy power supplies. I as a PC user for 20 years refuse to put a mid-range gpu in the case that consumes 250w, when a 1060 consumed 120w. When a mid-range gpu comes out with HUMAN power consumption and fair prices then maybe I will change it.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
I don't think the article manages to explain properly how much of a fuck up this latest quarter of GPU releases has been.
Tomshardware published Jon Peddie's total GPU shipments and it looks actually worse.
It's especially bad if we consider the shipment numbers together with GPU releases that usually boost the shipments by a lot.
I compared the GPU shipments with GPU releases:
The last time there ever was a quarter with simultaneous AMD and Nvidia GPU releases was in Q3-Q4 2019, where the GPU business saw an initial boost of 42%.
With the Polaris and GTX10 launches there was a 38% increase. With the refreshes of those cards (not even new gens) there was a 32% increase.
The RX70 and RTX40 released simultaneously and all they could manage was a 7.7% increase. That's less than a quarter of the next-worst case for the Polaris and Pascal refreshes.
Couple that with the fact that both companies are probably shipping a lot more GPUs for laptops and workstations (largely unaffected by the 2nd had market) than they were 6 years ago, also with Intel entering the market, and the discrete consumer GPU numbers for both AMD and Nvidia have to be abysmal.
Tomshardware published Jon Peddie's total GPU shipments and it looks actually worse.
It's especially bad if we consider the shipment numbers together with GPU releases that usually boost the shipments by a lot.
I compared the GPU shipments with GPU releases:
The last time there ever was a quarter with simultaneous AMD and Nvidia GPU releases was in Q3-Q4 2019, where the GPU business saw an initial boost of 42%.
With the Polaris and GTX10 launches there was a 38% increase. With the refreshes of those cards (not even new gens) there was a 32% increase.
The RX70 and RTX40 released simultaneously and all they could manage was a 7.7% increase. That's less than a quarter of the next-worst case for the Polaris and Pascal refreshes.
Couple that with the fact that both companies are probably shipping a lot more GPUs for laptops and workstations (largely unaffected by the 2nd had market) than they were 6 years ago, also with Intel entering the market, and the discrete consumer GPU numbers for both AMD and Nvidia have to be abysmal.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Actually… pc sales have been declining for years now.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
So....you've look onto Apple prices of their computers? It is not like it gets cheaper, than "legacy tech".
I do have their M1 OG Macbook and it is quite good, I would just need to have more RAM and for that I would have to pay absolutely deranged prices.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Apple isn’t the full answer for reasons you’ve pointed out, but where they’re moving is where the PC industry needs to go if it wants to compete. X86 needs to die; it’s holding back a lot in the name of archaic compatibility that nobody gives a shit about.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
This makes me want Valve to return to the Steam Machine concept.
Give me an all in one box at a reasonable price that can play the latest PC games well. Better yet developers can optimize specifically for a single Steam Machine configuration the way they would a console.
That could help eliminate the stuttering these expensive ass cards still suffer with.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Fuck 'em
yamaci17
Member
It never works out that way though. The consoles will be mined for every ounce of potential they have and you'll have games released that require cards on PC that are noticeably more powerful than the console specs.
Look at the old hd7850 (roughly equivalent to a PS4) trying to run God of War well below the original console settings (and at just 720p and lower in parts of the vid):
It ain't pretty.
The 7870 that was a bit more powerful than the PS4 doesn't do too much better.
With that said though, I completely agree with you regarding a lot of PC gamers hanging on to the hardware they have in response to the current prices. It's actually kind of crazy how well the 480/580 8GB and the 1060 6GB hung on as far as passable results. Even today they can probably hang in that at 30fps.
I debunked this shit at least 5 times on this forum and at this point I'm quite tired of it. THOSE GPUs only have tiny 2 GB VRAM buffer that causes huge performance drops even at lowest settings. It has nothing to do with "MuH cONSOlE oPTimizATiON"
even the modern cards such as 3070 WILL TANK once they run out of VRAM. and YOUwill always run out of vram regardless of settings and reoslutions on 2 GB tiny buffer with modern games (2017+)
Resident Evil Village: PC graphics performance benchmark review
We take a look at Resident Evil Village in our usual in-depth ways. That would be tested on the PC gaming wise relative towards graphics card performance with the latest AMD/NVIDIA graphics card dri... Raytracing performance, CPU and VRAM usage
see how 2080ti is literally 1.7x faster than 3070 when it tanks due to VRAM
look how the 2 gigs 960 TANKS to 20 fps avg. from being capable of 50 fps avg. due to VRAM BUFFER
stop using 2 GB VRAM buffer cards as a comparison.
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