eBay Huckster
Member
The other problem is a public option literally has the same end result (most likely, anyway) but doesn't provide a catastrophic (if temporary) shock to a $3 trillion sector of a $19 trillion economy in the process
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Pelosi declines to endorse Sen. Bernie Sanders' single-payer healthcare bill
- Thread starter KSweeley
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The other problem is a public option literally has the same end result (most likely, anyway) but doesn't provide a catastrophic (if temporary) shock to a $3 trillion sector of a $19 trillion economy in the process
RPGCrazied
Member
Its fantasy. Sure, I'd love to have a single payer system, but Republicans(which you need), will never sign onto that.
Netherscourge
Banned
Lovely.
---Bernie has no chance to get this passed without full Democratic support AND Trump support.
---Pelosi has no chance to save the ACA without Trump's support and Bernie's support. And Trump won't sign anything with Obama's name on it.
Same old clusterfuck Congress. All individual agendas.
---Bernie has no chance to get this passed without full Democratic support AND Trump support.
---Pelosi has no chance to save the ACA without Trump's support and Bernie's support. And Trump won't sign anything with Obama's name on it.
Same old clusterfuck Congress. All individual agendas.
It doesn't let them continually stay barely relevant/center-rightish to do that!
DrROBschiz
Member
Goddamnit Pelosi dont do this
Get on the same page Democrats
Infighting is not the answer
Get on the same page Democrats
Infighting is not the answer
Skellig Gra
Member
Why is it Pelosi's fault though? Bernie is barely a Democrat to begin with, I doubt he vetted this bill past all the major players before announcing it.
DrROBschiz
Member
Isn't the ACA just a first step anyways?
I get wanting to fight to keep it from being dismantled but it needs to be addressed at some point
They could propose something new that Republicans couldn't agree upon
I dunno these are tricky times
I get wanting to fight to keep it from being dismantled but it needs to be addressed at some point
They could propose something new that Republicans couldn't agree upon
I dunno these are tricky times
Far left:
Proudly declares self not to be moderate and proposes impossible bills that will never pass at the expense of all progress in order to win imaginary "who is the most liberal contest"
BertramCooper
Banned
Also worth noting that notorious corporatist neoliberal DINO Sherrod Brown isn't endorsing Bernie's plan, either.
eBay Huckster
Member
Far left: demands that the Minority Leader endorse a bill that's not going to pass while she needs to get the DREAM Act and at least three other legislative priorities passed
excelsiorlef
Member
jack_package_200
Banned
Something something identity politics
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah if Trump is proof of anything its that scorched earth policy proposals arent going to work
I hope that Bernie is being smarter about this and is willing the work with and unify under something that will actually work
No more attacking the base Bernie
I hope that Bernie is being smarter about this and is willing the work with and unify under something that will actually work
No more attacking the base Bernie
Netherscourge
Banned
I think you underestimate Trump's influence over Republicans up for election next year.
eBay Huckster
Member
We're talking about the same Trump who just gleefully endorsed several bills that would've left an extra 20 million-plus people without insurance while we're talking about estimations, right
Yep, it's like hey you can pay $300 a month to have health insurance where you still won't have the money to pay for treatment if anything happens to you.
It's worth having for limiting the debt you take on, but it's still an awful excuse of a Healthcare system.
Latvian Hitman
Member
FTFY with slight period movement.
This bill wouldn't pass under any circumstances even if Clinton had been elected and Dems controlled both chambers. A snowball in hell has a better short-term outlook than a universal healthcare bill in this political climate.
Fixing that problem does not require single payer.
Fenderputty
Banned
It's wild. Two threads dropped last night that had to do with Pelosi. The one about Pelosi meeting with Ryan regarding DACA got no love. The far left was too busy poo pooing her here. Mind numbing ...
legacyzero
Banned
In our Corporatocracy? It probably does.
Because she doesn't have a disagreeable position on DACA. That argument is one large straw man. Meanwhile Pelosi's stance on "let's protect the ACA!!" In a GOP majority congress that have only barely failed. I would argue that the Democrats had little to do with this, but constituents coming out to protest in town hall meetings, where even conservative voters stood against the repeal, and social media campaigns. Sure the dems yelled on the Hill, and did their part to spread the word. But I really feel that ACA's time is limited under this government. They aren't going to stop trying to repeal it. It's a race to the bottom here, and if your only message is "NOOooo doooont!'" And not trying to capitalize on the audience and good will you have with the President with a message that isn't more than "leave ACA alone, K?" I just don't know how excited I am for that.
Ya don't like Bernie. We get it. I myself am not particularly in love with the bill, particularly not giving details on how to pay for it. But let's not play around on the "Muh Pelosi!" junk. We all agree that she has a good stance on DACA, and we're glad she's going to bat for it. But hat thread fell because there isn't a contentious debate to be had on it. We all agree on it.
This thread IS.
Euphoria14
Member
They should be okay with that since they don't like anchor babies.
excelsiorlef
Member
I think you're inventing things
BertramCooper
Banned
The public-option-on-steroids approach could potentially get us to single-payer. I prefer public option-based plans that will eventually kill the employer-based market over a straight-up single-payer-now plan.
I don't think many of us would disagree that single-payer is a desirable final destination; the disagreement comes from the best way to get there.
hawkshockey11
Banned
universal healthcare is not being proposed by people to "have the most liberal position." The richest country on earth has no excuse for not having universal healthcare.
excelsiorlef
Member
Public Option
Bernie Sanders can fuck right off.
We are in the middle of a fight to keep a million Americans from being deported by a fuckshit of a president and he wants to start in-fighting within the party to pull us left that will fracture the party further and make it harder to gain a majority in Congress.
And he is starting this fight over a bill that HE KNOWS is DOA and has no fucking chance of becoming law in the next 3 years because of principal™. He is the lefts Ron Paul.
Fuck that guy. He's not a fucking democrat. Go back to being an independent and getting your rocks off by being super liberal man (except for gunz) on your own time.
We are in the middle of a fight to keep a million Americans from being deported by a fuckshit of a president and he wants to start in-fighting within the party to pull us left that will fracture the party further and make it harder to gain a majority in Congress.
And he is starting this fight over a bill that HE KNOWS is DOA and has no fucking chance of becoming law in the next 3 years because of principal™. He is the lefts Ron Paul.
Fuck that guy. He's not a fucking democrat. Go back to being an independent and getting your rocks off by being super liberal man (except for gunz) on your own time.
TurnipFritters
Member
So they can have it on record next year in the midterms. Dems get to say "Hey, we actually have a plan to fix healthcare" in contrast to the GOP's repeal and replace debacle.
(How well this will actually work out though is questionable, given how often half the country turns out to vote against ~out of control hover spending~)
googleplex
Member
Been my stance on Bernie and his theatrics for a while now. Thank God he's not the future of the Democratic party.
clevbrowns94
Member
No, align behind fixing Obamacare and keeping it alive. If you don't win back the House, it could still be killed. Then when you have 60 votes in Senate and the House, you can talk about public option or single payer.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Or maybe this is a Republican tech we need to copy. Remember the yearly "Repeal Obamacare" thing? We should do the exact same thing. Keep it in the public consciousness as they don't seem to give a damn that their tax payer dollars were used for Repeal protest.
TBH I get Pelosi is thinking realistically but maybe it's still good optics to support it even with the understanding that it won't go anywhere - it's the meaning that counts, and she can still continue chasing the more realistic option.
E-Cat
Member
The long game: All the old neo-lib corporatists will be dead and still no Universal Health Care.
ffs, Pelosi. Even milktoast Cory Booker now supports the bill.
Last week (via spokeswoman):
Exactly one week later:
Huh? That was a shockingly swift reversal. Not hedging so much now, are we, Cory-boy?
You know what this means? The progressive wing of the party is crushing the corporate Dems right now, winning in the realm of ideas. The old guard needs to gtfo, ASAP.
But saying 'we will pay for it with tax increases, don't ask me for specifics' is not really having a plan and is horrible optics for midterms.
It just gives the GOP ammo in the form of 'well we got nothing done but the Democrsts want to increase your taxes and refuse to give any specifics!'
balladofwindfishes
Member
You're confusing universal healthcare with single payer. Single payer is UH, but it's not the only path towards UH. 100% of the Democrats want UH. It's part of the platform and they would all vote for some form of UH.
UH isn't good enough for some people, even if it's functionally the same result whether it's single payer, a public option, highly subsidized private insurance, or whatever.
I mean it was pathetic when the republicans kept doing it, I don't know why it's not pathetic now. Like I have zero % interest in the bill.
Maybe it will get people out to midterms if they're exited by the idea. But I'm not really sure. I don't know if this is a strategy that has actually worked for the Republicans.
BertramCooper
Banned
I get the rhetorical power of single-payer, and I don't necessarily blame the reps and senators who are allying with Sanders on it.
But Jesus Christ, I really wish we could have a thoughtful discussion on the benefits of a public option-based approach.
All of the hubbub the past year over these hundreds of counties with only one (previously none whatsoever) insurers - what a perfect opportunity to start talking about how a public option would be hugely beneficial for these places.
But Jesus Christ, I really wish we could have a thoughtful discussion on the benefits of a public option-based approach.
All of the hubbub the past year over these hundreds of counties with only one (previously none whatsoever) insurers - what a perfect opportunity to start talking about how a public option would be hugely beneficial for these places.
Aaronrules380
Member
The dems are actually working on other, far more possible and reasonable plans right now
Single payer healthcare is not a popular opinion. It is currently at it's highest approval ratings of all time at 33%.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...er-health-coverage-grows-driven-by-democrats/
And that is before it becomes an actual battle over legislation and the Republicans tar and feather it and start beating it up.
This is not only a non-starter, this is a losing position for the Dems. I believe in Universal healthcare, but this is buying a new door mat while the house is on fire. We have other real priorities right now to consider.
This is the equivalent of asking for a raise in the middle of being fired.
eBay Huckster
Member
Endless virtue signaling about policies without specifics or any chance of actually getting them through the process is what got us the 112th through 115th Congresses.
(And pretty much everyone in the caucus is on board with a minimum of the public option at this point.)
That seems like such a natural step from Obamacare and probably a lot more practical.
E-Cat
Member
Why is it not a realistic plan if every other modern country can do it?
eBay Huckster
Member
Reading comprehension: single-payer can be a realistic plan, this bill does not outline one.
Mainly because it's not actually meant to!
This is what we should be doing. We should be talking about progressive policies that can solve real problems now that have some chance of being implemented at least at as state level. Now that Obamacare is around for another year or so (most likely) maybe we can fight for steps towards getting more Americans insured for more affordable rates.
Booker is supporting it because he knows this bill is going nowhere and you're at a complete disadvantage in 2020 if you don't back this.
legacyzero
Banned
Because she doesn't have a disagreeable position on DACA. That argument is one large straw man. Meanwhile Pelosi's stance on "let's protect the ACA!!" In a GOP majority congress that have only barely failed. I would argue that the Democrats had little to do with this, but constituents coming out to protest in town hall meetings, where even conservative voters stood against the repeal, and social media campaigns. Sure the dems yelled on the Hill, and did their part to spread the word. But I really feel that ACA's time is limited under this government. They aren't going to stop trying to repeal it. It's a race to the bottom here, and if your only message is "NOOooo doooont!'" And not trying to capitalize on the audience and good will you have with the President with a message that isn't more than "leave ACA alone, K?" I just don't know how excited I am for that.
Ya don't like Bernie. We get it. I myself am not particularly in love with the bill, particularly not giving details on how to pay for it. But let's not play around on the "Muh Pelosi!" junk. We all agree that she has a good stance on DACA, and we're glad she's going to bat for it. But hat thread fell because there isn't a contentious debate to be had on it. We all agree on it.
This thread IS.
Oh I'm with you there. At least it's a leap. Americans are tire of incrementalism and it shows. I'm even partially agree with Pelosi that it Medicae-for-all doesn't need to be a litmus test. But I question her on where exactly she wants all this to go aside from "the ACA is just fine". No, Nancy. It isn't just fine. But we should be moving in a nice direction, and yeah, public option would certainly be that.
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